The Inquisitions

[tabletalk]

Using these two sources, and any others submitted, I hope to get the facts of this "tormented phase in the history of the Church" (per Pope John Paul 11)(from CERC).



(1)This is a link to the Catholic Education Resource Center (CERC): Status: Inquisition in the Catholic Church
(2)Henry Charles Lea, The History of the Inquisition of the Middle Ages.

Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

From the CERC article: "...religious heresies were considered a kind of political treason."

"To remedy the disorganized response to heresy, Pope Gregory IX (1227-41) took on the task of bringing the investigation of heresy under the discipline of the Holy See. What we term the Inquisition is simply the ecclesiastical tribunal with specially appointed judges (inquisitors) answerable to both the local bishop and the pope, whose task it was to investigate charges of heresy in a systematic and fair way."


So, there were 3 "phases" of the Inquisition: Ecclesiastical Inquisition, Spanish Inquisition and Roman Inquisition.

Questions about torture, imprisonment, burning heretics, effect on family and friends of the heretic, and other punishments, such as wearing crosses for life, pilgrimages, forced into a crusade, floggings etc. are all appropriate in this discussion.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

A terrible example of ...of so many things...a person could make a list starting with
ego, ignorance, arrogance, power and terrorism.

 

[tabletalk]

One point to make might be that the Christian church isn't supposed to kill heretics (or have them killed). Our fight is against the powers of darkness, not flesh and blood.
The Catholic Church did not directly kill heretics. They could torture them though, and whenever an accused heretic did not repent, he/she was "relaxed" to the Civil authorities to be burned at the stake. I think that was because the civil penalty for heresy was burning and, according to the CERC source cited above, "...there was little separation of Church and State."
The Catholics on these forums may correct me about these "facts", but that is my information so far from the sources cited above.

 

[DPMartin]

One point to make might be that the Christian church isn't supposed to kill heretics (or have them killed). Our fight is against the powers of darkness, not flesh and blood.
The Catholic Church did not directly kill heretics. They could torture them though, and whenever an accused heretic did not repent, he/she was "relaxed" to the Civil authorities to be burned at the stake. I think that was because the civil penalty for heresy was burning and, according to the CERC source cited above, "...there was little separation of Church and State."
The Catholics on these forums may correct me about these "facts", but that is my information so far from the sources cited above.

why the subject? the catholic church was all there was for civilization from the fall of Rome to actually the renaissance and the times where thinking was back into societies and monarchies were established. hence the catholic church ran the holy roman empire, managing civil and criminal jurisdictions. so heresy and heretics were within their rights to execute the laws in place until nations began the separation of jurisdictions like England did in King James' day.

and since the church was a political entity, of significant power and influence through out Europe, it had its issues with corruption. the catholic church in the times you speak of wasn't just a religious organization. its how the Gospel message survived in the world through such times like the dark ages. the Lord made sure the church had such power until it didn't need it any more.

also, Israel had what kind of law in cases of blasphemy? which would be of a similar nature. so is that religious or civil/criminal issues for political powers to execute?

 

[BreadOfLife]

I have found that the complexity of the Inquisitions if FAR beyond the knowledge and education of most posters on public discussion forums. WAAAAAYY too much misinformation has been spewn over the years by anti-Catholics - that the lies have become the truth for so many.

The pervasiveness of ignorance of this subject only serves to turn most of these types of threads into the same, uninformed anti-Catholic tirades that we see too much of already.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Good thing we have you here, BreadofLife, to correct any misinformation then.
I'm serious.
I'm not anti-Catholic, per se, ha I still remember the feel of Bishop Fulton J. Sheen's hands!
...a plug for Bishop Sheen.
This was a bad time for the Catholic Church...not much tolerance, anyone can see this...
don't have to be a scholar or anti-Catholic to see that!

 

[BreadOfLife]

Good thing we have you here, BreadofLife, to correct any misinformation then.
I'm serious.
I'm not anti-Catholic, per se, ha I still remember the feel of Bishop Fulton J. Sheen's hands!
...a plug for Bishop Sheen.
This was a bad time for the Catholic Church...not much tolerance, anyone can see this...
don't have to be a scholar or anti-Catholic to see that!

Actually - this is just more historical misinformation you've been fed.
It wasn't a bad or shameful time for the Church - for the most part. Some within the Church may have done bad or shameful things during this time.

As a matter of fact - the Inquisitions were a good thing, in that it gave people a chance to plead their case instead of simply being executed or tortured by the state. During the 400 or so years of the Inquisitions, only about 4000 people were executed - as opposed to the "millions" we often hear about.

 

[aspen]

Sigh....

 

[aspen]

One point to make might be that the Christian church isn't supposed to kill heretics (or have them killed). Our fight is against the powers of darkness, not flesh and blood.
The Catholic Church did not directly kill heretics. They could torture them though, and whenever an accused heretic did not repent, he/she was "relaxed" to the Civil authorities to be burned at the stake. I think that was because the civil penalty for heresy was burning and, according to the CERC source cited above, "...there was little separation of Church and State."
The Catholics on these forums may correct me about these "facts", but that is my information so far from the sources cited above.

Torture is always wrong. The Catholic Church during the Middle Ages was made up of people who tortured people - it was how people operated.

Slavery is always wrong. American Protestant churches practiced segregation and condoned slavery from 1600 to the mid 1900s in the south. Any churches that promote the prosperity gospel are still condoning the slave labor that fuel wealth.

We are all guilty.

 

[aspen]

Actually - this is just more historical misinformation you've been fed.
It wasn't a bad or shameful time for the Church - for the most part. Some within the Church may have done bad or shameful things during this time.

As a matter of fact - the Inquisitions were a good thing, in that it gave people a chance to plead their case instead of simply being executed or tortured by the state. During the 400 or so years of the Inquisitions, only about 4000 people were executed - as opposed to the "millions" we often hear about.

Still carrying on your ministry of whitewashing and insults, i see

 

[BreadOfLife]

Still carrying on your ministry of whitewashing and insults, i see

Tell me which part of what I said is "whitewashing" or "insulting".

 

[BreadOfLife]

Torture is always wrong. The Catholic Church during the Middle Ages was made up of people who tortured people - it was how people operated.

Slavery is always wrong. American Protestant churches practiced segregation and condoned slavery from 1600 to the mid 1900s in the south. Any churches that promote the prosperity gospel are still condoning the slave labor that fuel wealth.

We are all guilty.

This generalization is as shallow as saying that ALL Protestants were guilty of owning slaves.
The Catholic Church was not "made up" of evil people. Like any other group - it had evil people within it.

These kinds of sweeping generalizations are at the heart of the ignorance that is Anti-Catholicism and every other prejudice.

 

[aspen]

Tell me which part of what I said is "whitewashing" or "insulting".

Are we really going to do this again?

1. You defend the Catholic Church at all costs, reason be damned.
2. You insult everyone who opposes you
3. When people point in out, you demand people to provide evidence
4. When the evidence is provided, you deny, deny, deny

This is how you have built your reputation here, BOL.......we all know your work

 

[aspen]

This generalization is as shallow as saying that ALL Protestants were guilty of owning slaves.
The Catholic Church was not "made up" of evil people. Like any other group - it had evil people within it.

These kinds of sweeping generalizations are at the heart of the ignorance that is Anti-Catholicism and every other prejudice.

So you are denying that torture was a common and accepted method for extracting information in the Middle Ages?

 

[BreadOfLife]

Are we really going to do this again?

1. You defend the Catholic Church at all costs, reason be damned.
2. You insult everyone who opposes you
3. When people point in out, you demand people to provide evidence
4. When the evidence is provided, you deny, deny, deny

This is how you have built your reputation here, BOL.......we all know your work

That's not what I asked you.
I asked about THIS thread - tell me which part of what I said is "whitewashing" or "insulting".

If you can't tell me - then don't accuse me of it.

 

[BreadOfLife]

So you are denying that torture was a common and accepted method for extracting information in the Middle Ages?

Nope.
I said that the Catholic Church was not "made up" of people who practiced this.

To make sweeping generalizations about ANY group is an exercise in ignorance.
Try being honest, for a change . . .

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Torture is always wrong.
Slavery is always wrong.

We are all guilty.

I'm sorry...I can't take on guilt from an ancestor's ignorance or extreme bigotry or crimes.

 

[Miss Hepburn]

Are we wrong that Pope's condoned these terrible things in the Inquisitions?
And don't be snotty to me..I am simply asking. Thank you, BreadofLife.

 

[aspen]

I'm sorry...I can't take on guilt from an ancestor's ignorance or extreme bigotry or crimes.

I am not suggesting that you take on the guilt of either one of these sins. We are responsible for working to improve the sinful practices of our own time.

 

[tabletalk]

Are we really going to do this again?

1. You defend the Catholic Church at all costs, reason be damned.
2. You insult everyone who opposes you
3. When people point in out, you demand people to provide evidence
4. When the evidence is provided, you deny, deny, deny

This is how you have built your reputation here, BOL.......we all know your work

#2. BOL hasn't insulted me, unless I missed it...