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The Lord’s Prayer Misunderstood

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by Christian Believer, Jan 27, 2022.

  1. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Is that what you think this is?

    Much love!
     
  2. Christian Believer

    Christian Believer Member

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    Okay, if you didn't get your understanding from your church, strikeout the church reference from my last reply. It is still full of a strong answer to you.
     
  3. 1stCenturyLady

    1stCenturyLady Well-Known Member

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    You are talking like you are committing sin everyday for it to be daily bread. How many times must Jesus die on the cross??? How many times must we be born again of the Holy Spirit to not sin?
     
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  4. Christian Believer

    Christian Believer Member

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    ===============================================
    marks said:
    It seems to me that you are taking something that was given to a certain people at a certain time, and you are treating it as a "New Covenant Law", or something like that, to apply to a different people in a different time. I don't think that works.
    We are justified by faith in Christ, but you seem to want me to think I need to do some certain thing daily to be justified by God. So then are you saying my reconciliation to God is based on Christ's propitiatory sacrifice and my daily performance of forgiving others.
    Much love!
    ================================================

    Ok here it is again, modified to answer you based on you getting you Christian learning from reading the Bible, not from a church teaching:

    Yes it is new in some ways, because most have forgotten an essential teaching form Jesus, His Prayer. Yes I am bringing it to the attention of everyone, that Jesus taught us to say this prayer daily, and most are not saying it. And a lot of churches are not teaching it. Why? You calling it "something that was given to a certain people at a certain time" doesn't change anything. It was Jesus in the same Bible talking to the same people, where you or your church pulled the verses it deemed useful for your purpose.

    "We are justified by faith in Christ," yes, and the Lord's Prayer fulfils it. And whether you like it or not, He did say daily. But this statement "but you seem to want me to think I need to do some certain thing daily to be justified by God" is completely contradicting to the Jesus teaching in Matthew 6:9-13 and Luke11:2-4. It is not me saying, it is Jesus saying. And you would say anything to reject it so your own say-so fits. Where is your loyalty? Is it to God? I am giving you enough evidence here, with Biblical references for you to question other teaching. But all you do is find the next answer to say no.
     
  5. Christian Believer

    Christian Believer Member

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    Hello 1stCenturyLady,

    Once. He did good :)
    Then His body became the daily Bread in the prayer He instructed us to say.
    But death on the cross? He only had to do this once.
    And here are some of the Biblical references supporting this:

    1 Corinthians‬ ‭10:16-17
    Paul said: …there is one loaf… we all share the one loaf.

    2 Corinthians 4:16:
    Paul said: …Even though our outer person is being destroyed, our inner person is being renewed day by day.

    John 6:32-33 and 6:51
    Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you Moses didn’t give you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.” “For the bread of God is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
    “I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever. The bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

    John 6:57
    …the one who “feeds” on me… Using the term “feeds” implying continual. [… give us this day our daily Bread…]

    John 6:58
    Contains a very clear explanation showing a parallel between the Bread (His body) and the manna in the desert, which couldn’t be hoarded more than one day (Exodus 16:4). Thus, God’s desire for our daily dependence on Him.

    John 15:5
    The branch is continually nourished by the Vine. Jesus is the vine, and we are the branches. Without the Lord’s Prayer daily, a branch will wither and die.

    Luke 11:13
    Jesus said this right after he taught them His prayer. God is giving the Holy Spirit, “to those who ask Him”. It doesn’t get much clearer than this. Obviously, God will not give you the Holy Spirit unless you ask. But Jesus is clarifying here that by renewing yourself (daily through His prayer), you’ll cleansed and make-way to receive the Holy Spirit.

    John 6:26-27
    Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”
    Jesus said this after they had been looking for Him all day, then found Him. Another big evidence that the "earthly bread", is not it in the Lord's prayer.

    John 6
    The entire Chapter 6 from John is all about this. The Pharisees did not get it then; Jesus knowing they did not get it, kept drilling it in with more of actual eating of His flesh and drinking of His blood throughout the chapter. And today you'd think we got it! But most churches and people still don't understand it. At best churches just call it: "basically He died for our sins..." or some other blanket statement like that. But no one knew to link it to the "daily Bread" in the Lord's prayer! Which provides our continuous feeding on Him. And keeping Him in us, and us in Him (John 15:4). This is so big, not to be taken lightly.
     
  6. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    That's not so. This is such a massive overgeneralization, and oversimplification, how does it mean anything? Many churches teach the Scriptures faithfully and truly, and how would you think you know otherwise?

    Much love!
     
  7. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Again . . . is that what you think this is about? Poor teaching? Poor attitude? Or am I saying, the Bible teaches differently?

    Much love!
     
  8. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Maybe go back to the beginning without any assuming or presuming?

    Much love!
     
  9. Christian Believer

    Christian Believer Member

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    Well, please take a closer look, important parts highlighted, if you don't think any of these verses are connected with the "bread" in the Lord's Prayer, then I will just shake the dust from my sandals and move on:

    1 Corinthians‬ ‭10:16-17
    Paul said: …there is one loaf… we all share the one loaf.

    2 Corinthians 4:16:
    Paul said: …Even though our outer person is being destroyed, our inner person is being renewed day by day.

    John 6:32-33 and 6:51
    Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you Moses didn’t give you the bread from heaven, but my Father gives you the true bread from heaven.” “For the bread of God is the one who comes down from heaven and gives life to the world.”
    I am the living bread that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread he will live forever. The bread that I will give for the life of the world is my flesh.”

    John 6:57
    …the one who “feeds” on me… Using the term “feeds” implying continual feeding on His body. [… give us this day our daily Bread…]

    John 6:58
    Contains a very clear explanation showing a parallel between the Bread (His body) and the manna in the desert, which couldn’t be hoarded more than one day (Exodus 16:4). Thus, God’s desire for our daily dependence on Him.

    John 15:5
    The branch is continually nourished by the Vine. Jesus is the vine, and we are the branches. Without the Lord’s Prayer daily, a branch will wither and die.

    Luke 11:13
    Jesus said this right after he taught them His prayer. God is giving the Holy Spirit, “to those who ask Him”. It doesn’t get much clearer than this. Obviously, God will not give you the Holy Spirit unless you ask. But Jesus is clarifying here that by renewing yourself (daily through His prayer), you’ll cleansed and make-way to receive the Holy Spirit.

    John 6:26-27
    Jesus answered, “Very truly I tell you, you are looking for me, not because you saw the signs I performed but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. For on him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”
    Jesus said this after they had been looking for Him all day, then found Him. Another big evidence that the "earthly bread", is not it in the Lord's prayer.

    John 6
    The entire Chapter 6 from John is all about this. The Pharisees did not get it then; Jesus knowing they did not get it, kept drilling it in with more of actual eating of His flesh and drinking of His blood throughout the chapter. And today you'd think we got it! But most churches and people still don't understand it. At best churches just call it: "basically He died for our sins..." or some other blanket statement like that. But no one knew to link it to the "daily Bread" in the Lord's prayer! Which provides our continuous feeding on Him. And keeping Him in us, and us in Him (John 15:4). This is so big, not to be taken lightly.
     
  10. 1stCenturyLady

    1stCenturyLady Well-Known Member

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    The way you are using it seemed to mean that we take communion to cleanse our sins again. No, we have also entered into His resurrection and do not commit sin to be cleansed. And if we do sin, we would be unworthy taking the bread.
     
  11. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the forums here @Christian Believer
    Have never heard this take on The Lord's prayer. I admit, I did think it a model prayer only too but you have given a lot for thought, thank you. Looking forward to reading some of your other pearls He has shown you.
    In Him,
    nancy
     
  12. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    I look to the plain and normal reading of a passage, and start there. This one is an interesting one to look at, because bread does have various meanings in the Bible, but one of them is, in fact, the kind of bread we eat, that strengthens the heart of man. The staff of life, grains.

    Father, I look to you to meet my material needs, as I attend myself to the spiritual needs of others.

    I believe that when we are reborn, if we are, that Jesus comes to live in us, and I don't need to receive Him every day. He doesn't ever leave us or forsake us. I believe that in His death, God reconciled us to Himself, and having received that reconciliation, we will never be separated from Him again. We share His life, and He is eternal.

    I think we have very different ideas about justification, and reconcilitation, and what it means to be reborn. We can discuss these things if you want, that's what I'm here for. But it's not going to be as worthwhile if you label or dismiss my statements as some "indoctrination", or whatever. We'll have productive conversation if you take the time to see what I'm saying, and then respond to the content I'm offering.

    Much love!
     
  13. Christian Believer

    Christian Believer Member

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    Thank you Nancy!! I feel so blessed when I find another true believer, seeing the truth clearly! If you're ok emailing me directly on
    [email protected], I wish to chat with you some more.
     
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  14. Christian Believer

    Christian Believer Member

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    Yes sir, I agree with you partly. But here's the hole truth:
    Declaring belief in Jesus is the beginning of a journey of getting to know Him. It goes in this order:
    1. Birth of the flesh, 1st birth.
    2. Spiritual birth, born again.
    3. Spiritual maturity.

    It is the 3rd item that most churches and people ignore, but is very clear in many verses in the Bible. For example, part of the 3rd item is the daily reciting of the Lord's Prayer as fulfilment to this declaration.
    To pray the Lord's Prayer daily as He instructed, is not "works", it is not anything we are adding for our salvation. It is obedience and maturing spiritually. This may take some time to sink in. But it is a truth from the Bible that many miss.
     
  15. Christian Believer

    Christian Believer Member

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    Hmm, so are you saying that you don't sin anymore, 1stCenturyLady? Then you don't need the Bread of life; you're already righteous now. The Bread of life is needed for those of us who sin. It is not about whether we are worthy of it; we are all worthy of it. The Bread of life that Jesus gives, is specifically for sinners. That is what Jesus said (I can provide many Biblical references). And since you never sin anymore, I can see how you see it that way.
     
  16. 1stCenturyLady

    1stCenturyLady Well-Known Member

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    CB I have been born again and the carnal nature was crucified with Jesus. I actually felt it leave my body. It was like a great weight lifted out of me, and I felt light as a feather. We do not have to struggle with sin. How come you don't know that?

    Romans 6:
    5 For if we have been united together in the likeness of His death, certainly we also shall be in the likeness of His resurrection, 6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

    22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.

    I would say you have quite a bit of unlearning to do before you can grasp the truth about why Jesus came. 1 John 3:5-9
     
  17. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    To me, the "daily recitation of the Lord's prayer" would be just that, a daily recitation. I believe God's intent for us is to commune with Him in all times, to be speaking to Him, listening to Him, at all times.

    Much love!
     
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  18. Cooper

    Cooper Well-Known Member

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    The words "give us" suggest there are several people gathered together. There are few if any communities that can gather together every day except for the family, and I am picturing in my mind, the family gathered together for prayers before the day begins. I can well imagine devout Jewish Christians doing this, and coming from the lips of Jesus, what more can we do other than to be "doers of the Word." It is a new thought to me and a very blessed one. May God bless.
    .
     
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  19. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Maybe you need a better set of churches, a more committed set of friends?

    Or how is it you say, Most people? Have you actually MET most people? Gotten to know them a little?

    Much love!
     
  20. Cooper

    Cooper Well-Known Member

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    Like Cornelius.
    At Caesarea there was a man named Cornelius, a centurion of what was known as the Italian Cohort, a devout man who feared God with all his household, gave alms generously to the people, and prayed continually to God. (Acts 10:1-2 ESV)
    .
     
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