The Lord will fight for Israel and Jerusalem; Zech. 12

[Stewardofthemystery]

Zechariah 12 gives us some insights into events leading up to the coming of the Lord. In the world today we see a growing anti-Israel sentiment, which could lead to much bigger things; even events to watch for that will precede the coming of the Lord.



So let me post Zechariah 12



12 The burden of the word of the Lordfor Israel, saith the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siegeboth against Judah and against Jerusalem.

3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

4 In that day, saith the Lord, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.

5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the Lord of hosts their God.

6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.

7 The Lord also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.

8 In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lordbefore them.

9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;

13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;

14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.”

Notice in verses 1 through 9 God is talking about the nations coming against Israel, and all the people of the earth who burden themselves with Jerusalem will be cut to pieces. And we are told in verse 8 “ In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem;”

So this to me is showing how God’s favor will return to the children of Israel at this time, and God shall defend them

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Confirmation of the timing of this event is shown in verses 10 through 14.

Notice in verse 10 God says….”10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications:and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.”

This pouring out of the Spirit of grace is God the “sealing” of the tribes of Israel as shown in Revelation 7:4 This is also what Paul talked about when God would remove ungodliness from Jacob in Romans 11…. 25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.”

This prophecy is also confirmed here in Isaiah 59….

19 So shall they fear the name of the Lord from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him.20 And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the Lord.”

Also notice in Zechariah 12:10 we read…” and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shallmourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son,”

This prophecy has to do with the coming of the Lord, it is written….Revelation 1:7 “Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.”

This sign that every eye shall see, is the “sign of the Son of man” in heaven, which I wrote about in another thread. But also notice we are told in Zechariah 12:10 “and they shall mournfor him, as one mourneth for his only son,”

This end time prophecy is also spoken of by Jesus here…Matthew 24:30And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.”



Most people are being led astray by men teachers who tell them a third temple needs to be rebuilt first, and animal sacrifices need to be started back up, and a man called Antichrist needs to appear first and make a peace treaty with Israel; and then this third temple needs to be destroyed all over again to fulfill the Abomination of Desolation. But this just goes to show,they do not understand, because they did not seek understanding from the Lord alone by faith. Neither do they realize how quickly these end time events can unfold, as the coming of the Lord will come like a thief in the night.

When God pours out His Spirit upon the children of Israel, the words of Jesus will be fulfilled in them in…Matthew 23:39 “For I say unto you, Ye shall not see me henceforth, till ye shall say, Blessed is he that cometh in the nameof the Lord.”

Peace and God bless

 

[tailgator]

Zechariah 12 gives us some insights into events leading up to the coming of the Lord. In the world today we see a growing anti-Israel sentiment, which could lead to much bigger things; even events to watch for that will precede the coming of the Lord.



So let me post Zechariah 12



12 The burden of the word of the Lordfor Israel, saith the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siegeboth against Judah and against Jerusalem.

3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

4 In that day, saith the Lord, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.

5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the Lord of hosts their God.

6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.

7 The Lord also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.

8 In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lordbefore them.

9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;

13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;

14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.”

Notice in verses 1 through 9 God is talking about the nations coming against Israel, and all the people of the earth who burden themselves with Jerusalem will be cut to pieces. And we are told in verse 8 “ In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem;”

So this to me is showing how God’s favor will return to the children of Israel at this time, and God shall defend them

After he has brought all the nations against Jerusalem and the city is taken and the women raped.



Zech 14
14 A day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.

2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle




So you need to expect he city is taken first and the women raped .That should tell you something.

 

[IndianaRob]

Doesn’t John 19:36 say the prophecy was fulfilled at the cross?

Jhn 19:36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
Jhn 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

After he has brought all the nations against Jerusalem and the city is taken and the women raped.



Zech 14
14 A day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.

2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle




So you need to expect he city is taken first and the women raped .That should tell you something.

That prophecy was fulfilled in 70 ad.

 

[tailgator]

That prophecy was fulfilled in 70 ad.

No it wasn't.
The day of the Lord was not in 70 ad and the Lord didn't fight against the Romans.

Zech 14
14 A day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.

2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake[a] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.


This prophecy was not fulfilled in 70 ad.

 

[rwb]

Zechariah 12 gives us some insights into events leading up to the coming of the Lord. In the world today we see a growing anti-Israel sentiment, which could lead to much bigger things; even events to watch for that will precede the coming of the Lord.



So let me post Zechariah 12



12 The burden of the word of the Lordfor Israel, saith the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siegeboth against Judah and against Jerusalem.

3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

4 In that day, saith the Lord, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.

5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the Lord of hosts their God.

6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.

7 The Lord also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.

8 In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lordbefore them.

9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;

13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;

14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.”

Notice in verses 1 through 9 God is talking about the nations coming against Israel, and all the people of the earth who burden themselves with Jerusalem will be cut to pieces. And we are told in verse 8 “ In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem;”

So this to me is showing how God’s favor will return to the children of Israel at this time, and God shall defend them

It is very difficult to arrive at a proper understanding of Old Covenant prophecies for Israel, Jerusalem, even the earth at large without seeking for clarity through what is written (NT) since Christ came and by His sacrificial life, death and resurrection ushered in the New Covenant that supersedes or has Authority over that which was of Old and has from the first advent of Christ faded away to never again return.

In the New Testament we find that which is written of Old, though physical realities, are symbolic, as signs and figures of what they pointed to through the promised Messiah to come. For example, Paul writes to the Galatians of 'two' covenants, speaking of them not to be understood in a literal sense because they are an allegory to emphasize a hidden meaning. The one from Sinai representing Agar, representing Jerusalem that now is in bondage with her children, symbolizing Jews born through the lineage of Abraham through natural seeds (as many). The other covenant representing Jerusalem, which is above, symbolizing Israel of faith. But Jerusalem from above is NOT limited only to Abraham's natural offspring, because Paul is writing to the Galatians, who were a mixture to both Jew and Gentile believers, telling them that Jerusalem from above "is the mother of us all."

Galatians 4:24-28 (KJV) Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

If we read the words of the prophets, like Zechariah without knowing the difference between Jerusalem that is even now in bondage with her children, and Jerusalem from above that is the mother of all who believe in Christ, how can we possibly come to the correct interpretation for what is written? We cannot, must not read the Old Covenant prophets only through a physical/literal interpretation. The prophets can only be properly understood when read through what is written in the New Testament, and understanding that which of Old that was physical, points us to fuller reality of spiritual truths they point us to through the advent of Christ.

 

[IndianaRob]

It is very difficult to arrive at a proper understanding of Old Covenant prophecies for Israel, Jerusalem, even the earth at large without seeking for clarity through what is written (NT) since Christ came and by His sacrificial life, death and resurrection ushered in the New Covenant that supersedes or has Authority over that which was of Old and has from the first advent of Christ faded away to never again return.

In the New Testament we find that which is written of Old, though physical realities, are symbolic, as signs and figures of what they pointed to through the promised Messiah to come. For example, Paul writes to the Galatians of 'two' covenants, speaking of them not to be understood in a literal sense because they are an allegory to emphasize a hidden meaning. The one from Sinai representing Agar, representing Jerusalem that now is in bondage with her children, symbolizing Jews born through the lineage of Abraham through natural seeds (as many). The other covenant representing Jerusalem, which is above, symbolizing Israel of faith. But Jerusalem from above is NOT limited only to Abraham's natural offspring, because Paul is writing to the Galatians, who were a mixture to both Jew and Gentile believers, telling them that Jerusalem from above "is the mother of us all."

Galatians 4:24-28 (KJV) Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

If we read the words of the prophets, like Zechariah without knowing the difference between Jerusalem that is even now in bondage with her children, and Jerusalem from above that is the mother of all who believe in Christ, how can we possibly come to the correct interpretation for what is written? We cannot, must not read the Old Covenant prophets only through a physical/literal interpretation. The prophets can only be properly understood when read through what is written in the New Testament, and understanding that which of Old that was physical, points us to fuller reality of spiritual truths they point us to through the advent of Christ.

Excellent post! There are two Israel’s and two Jerusalems in the Bible and when you look at Old Testament prophecy you have to know which one is being referenced.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Doesn’t John 19:36 say the prophecy was fulfilled at the cross?

Jhn 19:36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.
Jhn 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

Yes. Well, technically, verse 37 does since Zechariah 12:10 is quoted there. We need to allow scripture to interpret scripture.

The context of Zechariah 12:10 is in relation to people mourning Christ's death while the context of Matthew 24:30 and Revelation 1:7 is people wailing in fear of His wrath. Seeing similar phrases in 2 different verses does not automatically mean they are directly related.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

No it wasn't.
The day of the Lord was not in 70 ad and the Lord didn't fight against the Romans.

Zech 14
14 A day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.

2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake[a] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him.


This prophecy was not fulfilled in 70 ad.

Verse 2 was fulfilled in 70 ad. The rest of the chapter is future prophecy.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Zechariah 12 gives us some insights into events leading up to the coming of the Lord. In the world today we see a growing anti-Israel sentiment, which could lead to much bigger things; even events to watch for that will precede the coming of the Lord.

God's people today are those who belong to Christ. The church. Thinking that modern day Israel, most of whom reject Christ, are God's people is a huge mistake and is major deception brought about by Satan. Only those who belong to Christ are God's people, as NT scripture repeatedly indicates.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

To think that a nation comprised of mostly those who reject Christ has anything to do with Zechariah 12 does not make any sense. Why would God defend a nation of those who reject His Son? No, He defends the Israel of God, which is the church (Galatians 6:15-16).

So let me post Zechariah 12

12 The burden of the word of the Lordfor Israel, saith the Lord, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.

2 Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siegeboth against Judah and against Jerusalem.

3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it.

4 In that day, saith the Lord, I will smite every horse with astonishment, and his rider with madness: and I will open mine eyes upon the house of Judah, and will smite every horse of the people with blindness.

5 And the governors of Judah shall say in their heart, The inhabitants of Jerusalem shall be my strength in the Lord of hosts their God.

6 In that day will I make the governors of Judah like an hearth of fire among the wood, and like a torch of fire in a sheaf; and they shall devour all the people round about, on the right hand and on the left: and Jerusalem shall be inhabited again in her own place, even in Jerusalem.

7 The Lord also shall save the tents of Judah first, that the glory of the house of David and the glory of the inhabitants of Jerusalem do not magnify themselves against Judah.

8 In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lordbefore them.

9 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the nations that come against Jerusalem.

10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

11 In that day shall there be a great mourning in Jerusalem, as the mourning of Hadadrimmon in the valley of Megiddon.

12 And the land shall mourn, every family apart; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan apart, and their wives apart;

13 The family of the house of Levi apart, and their wives apart; the family of Shimei apart, and their wives apart;

14 All the families that remain, every family apart, and their wives apart.”

Notice in verses 1 through 9 God is talking about the nations coming against Israel, and all the people of the earth who burden themselves with Jerusalem will be cut to pieces. And we are told in verse 8 “ In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem;”

So this to me is showing how God’s favor will return to the children of Israel at this time, and God shall defend them

Are you aware that there is more than one Israel?

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

Which of the 2 Israels Paul referenced here consists of "God's children" who are "the children of the promise" and "are regarded as Abraham's offspring"?

Also, are you aware that Zechariah 12:10 is quoted here:

John 19:34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. 35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. 36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,” 37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.

This places the timing of the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10 in the time of Christ's first coming, not the second. And the context of Zechariah 12:10 is people mourning His death and refers to people literally looking at the one they have pierced right after He was pierced in the side with a spear.

In contrast to that, Matthew 24:30 and Revelation 1:7 are referring to unbelievers wailing in fear at the sight of Jesus coming because they know His wrath will come down on them.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

This says "they also which pierced him" will see him when He returns because they will be resurrected to give an account of themselves to Him at that time (John 5:28-29, John 12:48, Matthew 25:31-46).

Here is a description of those who will "wail because of him" when He comes:

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

 

[tailgator]

Verse 2 was fulfilled in 70 ad. The rest of the chapter is future

False.
The nations which the Lord brings against Jerusalem at the time of the end in verse 2 are the same nations the Lord fights against in verse 3.

This is all future.
About 4 years from now.


Zech 14
14 A day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.

2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake[a] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

It is very difficult to arrive at a proper understanding of Old Covenant prophecies for Israel, Jerusalem, even the earth at large without seeking for clarity through what is written (NT) since Christ came and by His sacrificial life, death and resurrection ushered in the New Covenant that supersedes or has Authority over that which was of Old and has from the first advent of Christ faded away to never again return.

In the New Testament we find that which is written of Old, though physical realities, are symbolic, as signs and figures of what they pointed to through the promised Messiah to come. For example, Paul writes to the Galatians of 'two' covenants, speaking of them not to be understood in a literal sense because they are an allegory to emphasize a hidden meaning. The one from Sinai representing Agar, representing Jerusalem that now is in bondage with her children, symbolizing Jews born through the lineage of Abraham through natural seeds (as many). The other covenant representing Jerusalem, which is above, symbolizing Israel of faith. But Jerusalem from above is NOT limited only to Abraham's natural offspring, because Paul is writing to the Galatians, who were a mixture to both Jew and Gentile believers, telling them that Jerusalem from above "is the mother of us all."

Galatians 4:24-28 (KJV) Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

If we read the words of the prophets, like Zechariah without knowing the difference between Jerusalem that is even now in bondage with her children, and Jerusalem from above that is the mother of all who believe in Christ, how can we possibly come to the correct interpretation for what is written? We cannot, must not read the Old Covenant prophets only through a physical/literal interpretation. The prophets can only be properly understood when read through what is written in the New Testament, and understanding that which of Old that was physical, points us to fuller reality of spiritual truths they point us to through the advent of Christ.

Amen! Great post. One cannot hope to understand many of the OT prophecies without allowing the NT to shine light on them.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

Did you know….

The Palestinian Islamic Resistance Movement, Hamas, has called on the Palestinian people, the Arab and Muslim nations, and the free peoples of the world to participate in the Al-Aqsa “Flood”. (End quote)

Notice what the Lord says about the “enemy”coming in like a “flood.”

Isaiah 59:19
So shall they fear the name of the Lord from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the Lord shall lift up a standard against him.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

False.
The nations which the Lord brings against Jerusalem at the time of the end in verse 2 are the same nations the Lord fights against in verse 3.

This is all future.
About 4 years from now.


Zech 14
14 A day of the Lord is coming, Jerusalem, when your possessions will be plundered and divided up within your very walls.

2 I will gather all the nations to Jerusalem to fight against it; the city will be captured, the houses ransacked, and the women raped. Half of the city will go into exile, but the rest of the people will not be taken from the city. 3 Then the Lord will go out and fight against those nations, as he fights on a day of battle. 4 On that day his feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, east of Jerusalem, and the Mount of Olives will be split in two from east to west, forming a great valley, with half of the mountain moving north and half moving south. 5 You will flee by my mountain valley, for it will extend to Azel. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake[a] in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the Lord my God will come, and all the holy ones with him

Verse 2 does not agree with Zech 12 concerning Jerusalem and it’s people, SO they cannot be speaking of the same event.

Zech 12:8 In that day shall the Lord defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the Lord before them.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

God's people today are those who belong to Christ. The church. Thinking that modern day Israel, most of whom reject Christ, are God's people is a huge mistake and is major deception brought about by Satan. Only those who belong to Christ are God's people, as NT scripture repeatedly indicates.

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. 27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

To think that a nation comprised of mostly those who reject Christ has anything to do with Zechariah 12 does not make any sense. Why would God defend a nation of those who reject His Son? No, He defends the Israel of God, which is the church (Galatians 6:15-16).


Are you aware that there is more than one Israel?

Romans 9:6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.

Which of the 2 Israels Paul referenced here consists of "God's children" who are "the children of the promise" and "are regarded as Abraham's offspring"?

Also, are you aware that Zechariah 12:10 is quoted here:

John 19:34 Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water. 35 The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe. 36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: “Not one of his bones will be broken,” 37 and, as another scripture says, “They will look on the one they have pierced.

This places the timing of the fulfillment of Zechariah 12:10 in the time of Christ's first coming, not the second. And the context of Zechariah 12:10 is people mourning His death and refers to people literally looking at the one they have pierced right after He was pierced in the side with a spear.

In contrast to that, Matthew 24:30 and Revelation 1:7 are referring to unbelievers wailing in fear at the sight of Jesus coming because they know His wrath will come down on them.

Revelation 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

This says "they also which pierced him" will see him when He returns because they will be resurrected to give an account of themselves to Him at that time (John 5:28-29, John 12:48, Matthew 25:31-46).

Here is a description of those who will "wail because of him" when He comes:

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

What you are not “seeing”is that Gods favor shall return to the children of Israel. When God pours out His Spirit on the children of Israel, and He begins to fight all those Nations who have come against Israel, then perhaps you will see and believe the message.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

What you are not “seeing”is that Gods favor shall return to the children of Israel. When God pours out His Spirit on the children of Israel, and He begins to fight all those Nations who have come against Israel, then perhaps you will see and believe the message.

He has already poured out His Spirit on the children of Israel beginning on the day of Pentecost long ago. Peter recorded that 3,000 of them were saved and had His Spirit poured out on them that day alone.

What is the reason you did not answer my questions or address any of my points? Do you have any specific thoughts on what I said?

As for God's favor, have you never read this:

Acts 10:34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.

You are drawing conclusions from part of scripture while seemingly ignoring or missing a lot of other scripture. Shouldn't our beliefs come from what is taught in ALL of scripture so that we make sure none of our beliefs contradict any scripture? Scripture very clearly indicates that God does not show favoritism based on one's nationality, and that is certainly true in regards to salvation in particular, so your claim here is blatantly contradicting scripture.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

He has already poured out His Spirit on the children of Israel beginning on the day of Pentecost long ago. Peter recorded that 3,000 of them were saved and had His Spirit poured out on them that day alone.

What is the reason you did not answer my questions or address any of my points? Do you have any specific thoughts on what I said?

As for God's favor, have you never read this:

Acts 10:34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.

You are drawing conclusions from part of scripture while seemingly ignoring or missing a lot of other scripture. Shouldn't our beliefs come from what is taught in ALL of scripture so that we make sure none of our beliefs contradict any scripture? Scripture very clearly indicates that God does not show favoritism based on one's nationality, and that is certainly true in regards to salvation in particular, so your claim here is blatantly contradicting scripture.

The day of Pentecost began the “new meat offering” per the spiritual law of God. Meaning it was the start point of the Gentile ingathering period as was prophesied when God said He would pour out His Spirit on “all flesh” meaning the Gentiles.

But blindness was the remain on the majority of Israel UNTIL after the fulness of the Gentiles comes in. You keep looking backward at what has already taken place, but you cannot see what is coming in the future because you cannot hear what prophecy is telling us about Gods favor returning the flesh and blood Israel.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

The day of Pentecost began the “new meat offering” per the spiritual law of God. Meaning it was the start point of the Gentile ingathering period as was prophesied when God said He would pour out His Spirit on “all flesh” meaning the Gentiles.

But blindness was the remain on the majority of Israel UNTIL after the fulness of the Gentiles comes in.

But, as in Paul's day, their blindness was not permanent. Paul made it very clear in Romans 11:11-14 that their blindness was not permanent and they still had the chance to be saved which is why Paul, in verse 14, indicated that he hoped to help "save some of them" who were blinded. It seems that you think the blindness of the part of Israel that are unbelievers is permanent for the rest of their lives, but it is not. God blinded them in order for salvation to come to the Gentiles who, in turn, are to provoke those blinded Israelites to jealousy so that they too want to be saved the way the Gentiles are. And many formerly blinded Israelites through the years have been saved that way.

You keep looking backward at what has already taken place,

No. Don't misrepresent my view. That does nothing to support your own. I am looking backward to when the process God put in place of the salvation of Gentiles provoking blinded Israelites to jealousy and to accept Christ themselves the way Gentile believers have. I look back to when that process started in Paul's day and then look forward from there to how the process continued until today and I look forward from today to how it will continue until "the fullness of the Gentiles comes in" in the future. You are missing the ongoing process that God put in place to save both Gentiles and Jews. You are not seeing that God's plan was for the Gentiles to provoke the blinded Israelites to jealousy, as Paul talked about in Romans 11:11-14. That plan has continued ever since then and will continue "until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in".

but you cannot see what is coming in the future because you cannot hear what prophecy is telling us about Gods favor returning the flesh and blood Israel.

You are arguing with a straw man because you are acting as if I'm only talking about the past, when I'm actually talking about something that began in the past in Paul's day and has continued until today and will continue until "the fullness of the Gentiles comes in".

And, again, as concerning God's supposed favor towards the nation of Israel, have you never read this?

Acts 10:34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.

Peter, in scripture, says "God does not show favoritism". You say He does. Who should I believe? I will believe Peter.

 

[Stewardofthemystery]

God blinded them in order for salvation to come to the Gentiles who, in turn, are to provoke those blinded Israelites to jealousy so that they too want to be saved the way the Gentiles are. And many formrely blinded Israelites through the years have been saved that way.


No. Don't misrepresent my view. That does nothing to support your own. I am looking backward to when the process God put in place of the salvation of Gentiles provoking blinded Israelites to jealousy and to accept Christ themselves the way Gentile believers have. I look back to when that process started in Paul's day and then look forward from there to how the process continued until today and I look forward from today to how it will continue until "the fullness of the Gentiles comes in" in the future. You are missing the ongoing process that God put in place to save both Gentiles and Jews. You are not seeing that God's plan was for the Gentiles to provoke the blinded Israelites to jealousy, as Paul talked about in Romans 11:11-14. That plan has continued ever since then and will continue "until the fullness of the Gentiles comes in".


You are arguing with a straw man because you are acting as if I'm only talking about the past, when I'm actually talking about something that begain in the past in Paul's day and has continued until today and will continued until "the fullness of the Gentiles comes in".

And, again, as concerning God's supposed favor towards the nation of Israel, have you never read this?

Acts 10:34 Then Peter began to speak: “I now realize how true it is that God does not show favoritism 35 but accepts from every nation the one who fears him and does what is right.

Peter, in scripture, says "God does not show favoritism". You say He does. Who should I believe? I will believe Peter.

And if God can make them blind to fulfill His will and purpose, then God can also give them back their site after the fulness of the Gentiles comes in to fulfill His will. God will have mercy on whomsoever He will, and He will be gracious to whomsoever He chooses.