1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The Lost Sheep of The House of Israel

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by hermeneutics, Dec 30, 2019.

  1. hermeneutics

    hermeneutics Active Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    51
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The lost tribes of Israel were not lost physically, but rather Spiritually

    Jesus Sends Out the Twelve Apostles
    Mat 10:5 These twelve Jesus sent forth, and commanded them, saying, Go not into the way of the Gentiles, and into any city of the Samaritans enter ye not:
    Mat 10:6 But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
    Mat 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand.

    Tribes of Israel, prior to this time, had lived in northern Israel.

    2Ki 17:5 Then the king of Assyria came up throughout all the land, and went up to Samaria, and besieged it three years.

    The Fall of Israel
    2Ki 17:6 In the ninth year of Hoshea the king of Assyria took Samaria, and carried Israel away into Assyria, and placed them in Halah and in Habor by the river of Gozan, and in the cities of the Medes.

    Exile Because of Idolatry
    2Ki 17:7 For so it was, that the children of Israel had sinned against the LORD their God, which had brought them up out of the land of Egypt, from under the hand of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and had feared other gods,
    2Ki 17:8 And walked in the statutes of the heathen, whom the LORD cast out from before the children of Israel, and of the kings of Israel, which they had made.
    2Ki 17:9 And the children of Israel did secretly those things that were not right against the LORD their God, and they built them high places in all their cities, from the tower of the watchmen to the fenced city.
    2Ki 17:10 And they set them up images and groves in every high hill, and under every green tree:
    2Ki 17:11 And there they burnt incense in all the high places, as did the heathen whom the LORD carried away before them; and wrought wicked things to provoke the LORD to anger:
    2Ki 17:12 For they served idols, whereof the LORD had said unto them, Ye shall not do this thing.
    2Ki 17:13 Yet the LORD testified against Israel, and against Judah, by all the prophets, and by all the seers, saying, Turn ye from your evil ways, and keep my commandments and my statutes, according to all the law which I commanded your fathers, and which I sent to you by my servants the prophets.
    2Ki 17:14 Notwithstanding they would not hear, but hardened their necks, like to the neck of their fathers, that did not believe in the LORD their God.
    2Ki 17:15 And they rejected his statutes, and his covenant that he made with their fathers, and his testimonies which he testified against them; and they followed vanity, and became vain, and went after the heathen that were round about them, concerning whom the LORD had charged them, that they should not do like them.
    2Ki 17:16 And they left all the commandments of the LORD their God, and made them molten images, even two calves, and made a grove, and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served Baal.
    2Ki 17:17 And they caused their sons and their daughters to pass through the fire, and used divination and enchantments, and sold themselves to do evil in the sight of the LORD, to provoke him to anger.
    2Ki 17:18 Therefore the LORD was very angry with Israel, and removed them out of his sight: there was none left but the tribe of Judah only.

    The Tribe of Judah lived in southern Israel. They were taken captive by Babylon.
    Jer 27:21 Yea, thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, concerning the vessels that remain in the house of the LORD, and in the house of the king of Judah and of Jerusalem;
    Jer 27:22 They shall be carried to Babylon, and there shall they be until the day that I visit them, saith the LORD; then will I bring them up, and restore them to this place.

    When Jesus came to earth, the Tribe of Judah had indeed returned to Jerusalem and rebuilt the Temple. Jesus had witnessed to them. This is why the twelve disciples were sent to the Lost Tribe of Israel.

    In truth they were not physically lost, but spiritually they were. The disciples did what Jesus said and they went only to the Lost Sheep of Israel.

    We now know, by historians, that the migration of the Lost Tribes of Israel has been discovered.


    Click below for migration.
    Migration of the lost 10 tribes of Israel.

    Heb 8:8
    For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
    Heb 8:9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
    Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:

    Jesus and his disciples witnessed to the children of Judea while he was here. Afterwards he told his disciples to go only to the lost tribes of Israel and that is just what they did. Take note of who was addressed in the Book of James.
    Jas 1:1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad, greeting.


    Paul was sent to the Gentiles, and he started in Rome and later joined the others.
     
  2. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,698
    Likes Received:
    1,256
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    It kind of sounds like you're saying the house of Israel weren't physically removed from the holy lands when they were. They have been lost because of that (but not to God). The northern "kingdom of Israel" was the ten tribes only. They went captive to Assyria and the lands of the Medes, captive by the Assyrian kings. That was about 130 years prior to Judah going captive to Babylon. Thus there were 2 separate captivities, the first one to the ten tribes of the house of Israel, the northern kingdom, and then a later one by the king of Babylon upon the Jews of the southern kingdom of Judah.

    Only a small remnant of the house of Judah returned to Jerusalem after their 70 years Babylon captivity. The majority of them chose to stay in Babylon, as God had taken care of them there. Those were then further scattered through the countries like the ten tribes were.

    Still today, Christ's enemies among anthropologists and historians refuse to admit the connection of the ten tribes of Israel with the migrating Cimmerian tribes into Asia Minor and Europe. Anthropologists still claim to be puzzled as to where the Cimmerians originated from. It's surprising, since the Cimmerians left such a huge amount of archaeological artifacts on their journey to the west.

    In the 1930s, Leroy Waterman, a professor of oriental languages at the University of Michigan, translated from the Assyrian tablets what the Assyrians called some of the kings from the northern ten tribe kingdom of Israel. From a royal Assyrian discourse Waterman translated an Assyrian name for the Israelites which became the origin of the name for the Cimmerians. From the Cimmerians came the Celts, the name Gaul (Galatians) being just another name for the Celts.

    Modern anthropology will tell you the Celts began migrating into Europe around 1200 B.C., but that date is kind of bogus. It's an easy excuse to quell the actual western migrations of the ten tribes who were removed later in history. They don't understand that God scattered the tribe of Dan first because Dan first fell to idolatry against Him. The tribe of Dan would dwell in ships, and name places after their father Dan. (The actual name for Denmark by the Danish is actually Dan-mark). The Tuatha de Danann is mentioned in the Irish Annals as having dwelt in Ireland early in Ireland's history, having arrived in ships. Judges 5:17 says that Dan remained in ships. Thus the tribe of Dan appears to have been a great seafaring people. And thus it has been also by the Danes' own history; go figure.
     
  3. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,315
    Likes Received:
    3,397
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    GINOLJC, to all.
    Addressing the OP,
    Not saying that any poster is right or wrong, but consider this. the House of Israel vs the Tribes of Israel. is there a difference?. I believe so. for the House of Israel is spiritual of the Body of Christ made up of all Nations, (including Jews). scripture,

    John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life".

    Now, who hears these words?
    John 10:1 "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.

    John 10:2 "But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.

    John 10:3 "To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.

    John 10:4 "And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

    John 10:5 "And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

    John 10:6 "This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.

    John 10:7 "Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.

    John 10:8 "All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.

    John 10:9 "I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.



    who are these sheep, ("any man", meaning male or female), that hear his voice?


    Acts 10:34 "Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:

    Acts 10:35 "But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

    now a Nation of Peoples
    1 Peter 1:1 "Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
    (these were Jews that showed up at pentecost, Acts 2:5 "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven". HOLD it, Jews and "devout men". men of religion, of faith and holiness, the Syriac version renders it, "who feared God". just like our Brother captian Cornelius, see Acts 10:34 & 35 above, or read it for yourself in the bible.

    1 Peter 1:2 "Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

    1 Peter 1:3 "Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,

    1 Peter 1:4 "To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,

    1 Peter 1:5 "Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

    a house contains tribes and Nations of people. the House, or the "Nation" of israel is a type, or a christophane or an "EXAMPLE" of the Lord Body to come. a christophane not a Christophany of the Head, the Lord Jesus, but a christophane of his Body, (which includes both Jews and Gentiles). so both spiritual and Phyical definitions are correct.

    PICJAG.
     
  4. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,698
    Likes Received:
    1,256
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I understand your point, but if your interpretation of the "house of Israel" phrase were true, then it would mean there's no need for prophecy at the end to be fulfilled that was given specifically to the "house of Israel". So in essence, that would be to destroy what God has already promised to the believing remnant of the house of Israel. Also, it would negate the prophecies given separately to the "house of Judah" (Jews) in contrast to the "house of Israel". I realize some in the Church would rather the two house idea written in God's Word would just go away. It's not going to though. In Romans 11, Apostle Paul was specific that the unbelievers of Israel are going to be turned to Jesus in final. It's because God blinded them so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles, which just happened to be where the majority of the ten lost tribes had been scattered to. Thus believers of the ten lost tribes, and of the Jews, and of the Gentiles, all together make up Christ's Church, but... the "house of Israel" still refers only to the believing remnant of the seed of the ten tribes. Even believing Jews in Christ's Church are still a remnant of the "house of Judah" today.

    Jer 3:14-18
    14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion:
    15 And I will give you pastors according to mine heart, which shall feed you with knowledge and understanding.
    16 And it shall come to pass, when ye be multiplied and increased in the land, in those days, saith the LORD, they shall say no more, The ark of the covenant of the LORD: neither shall it come to mind: neither shall they remember it; neither shall they visit it; neither shall that be done any more.
    17 At that time they shall call Jerusalem the throne of the LORD; and all the nations shall be gathered unto it, to the name of the LORD, to Jerusalem: neither shall they walk any more after the imagination of their evil heart.
    18 In those days the house of Judah shall walk with the house of Israel, and they shall come together out of the land of the north to the land that I have given for an inheritance unto your fathers.

    KJV
     
  5. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,315
    Likes Received:
    3,397
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Concering Jews? Romans 2:28 & 29

    PICJAG
     
  6. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,698
    Likes Received:
    1,256
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The actual word Apostle Paul used means a Judean, not necessarily one born of the tribe of Judah. And the time reference is important...

    Acts 21:39
    39 But Paul said, I am a man which am a Jew of Tarsus, a city in Cilicia, a citizen of no mean city: and, I beseech thee, suffer me to speak unto the people.
    KJV

    Rom 11:1
    11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
    KJV


    Paul said he was a Jew. But he also said he was born of the tribe of Benjamin. The word 'Jew' according the Jewish historian Josephus, was derived from the name for the tribe of Judah. So how could Paul claim to be both a Jew and born of the tribe of Benjamin?
     
  7. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,315
    Likes Received:
    3,397
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    did not all tribes obeyed the Law? either Judah or Benjamin? was not all circumcise in the spirit according to Deuteronomy 10:16? if so then he's a JEW, inwardly.

    PICJAG
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2020
  8. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,698
    Likes Received:
    1,256
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Paul's meaning in Romans 2:28-29 is about a 'spiritual Israelite', like the example he gave later in Romans 9 about the believing Gentile. This is also the same kind of idea Paul declared in Ephesians 2 about the believing Gentile have come nigh to the promises and covenants via Christ, and having become part of the "commonwealth of Israel" (Ephesians 2:11-13).

    But in Romans 11 Paul was specific about the seed of Israel regarding the blindness God put upon Israel in part so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles (Romans 11:7-11). And also Paul mentioned another separate group there regarding a believing remnant of the seed of Israel that he called "a remnant according to the election of grace" (Romans 11:2-5). In final, God is going to remove that blindness He put upon them (all unbelieving Jews), and those of them that then believe will be given mercy (Romans 11:25-32). That time has not yet arrived today, for it is tied to the fullness of the Gentiles.
     
  9. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,315
    Likes Received:
    3,397
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Agreed, but being a Jew is about a 'spiritual Israelite'? yes, but how so?

    God divorced Israel. But Not Judah

    Jeremiah 3:8 "And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

    Jeremiah 3:20 "Surely as a wife treacherously departeth from her husband, so have ye dealt treacherously with me, O house of Israel, saith the LORD.

    Judah was not given a bill of divorced, but only was put away, hence the legitimacy of Judah, or the Jews.
    Isaiah 50:1 "Thus saith the LORD, Where is the bill of your mother's divorcement, whom I have put away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities have ye sold yourselves, and for your transgressions is your mother put away.

    Jeremiah 3:14 "Turn, O backsliding children, saith the LORD; for I am married unto you: and I will take you one of a city, and two of a family, and I will bring you to Zion".

    those who have repented, and is repenting, and will repent are coming in. until when? the Gentiles fullness? ask God.

    PICJAG.
     
  10. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,698
    Likes Received:
    1,256
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States


    See Romans 9 where Apostle Paul was talking about the idea of the Gentile believer being counted as spiritual Israel.

    But God said He will gather both the house of Israel and the house of Judah in final, and join them together, back to the lands of promise He gave their fathers. That has not happened yet (Ezekiel 37:15-28).
     
    Reggie Belafonte likes this.
  11. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,315
    Likes Received:
    3,397
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    are they all spiritual? no, are all Gentiles Fleshly? no.
    Romans 9:6 "Not as though the word of God hath taken none effect. For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel:

    Romans 9:7 "Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called.

    Romans 9:8 "That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed".

    But God said He will gather both the house of Israel and the house of Judah in final, and join them together, back to the lands of promise He gave their fathers. That has not happened yet (Ezekiel 37:15-28)?.

    spiritually or physically read Ephesians 2 but read 1 Peter 1 first, for there are two types of "strangers".
    Isaiah 14:1 "For the LORD will have mercy on Jacob, and will yet choose Israel, and set them in their own land: and the strangers shall be joined with them, and they shall cleave to the house of Jacob". note it takes only one to repersent a house (smile)

    Ephesians 2:16 "And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:
    Ephesians 2:17 "And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

    so I ask you Davy are you in a covenant of peace right now? Yes or no. AND TWO DO YOU HAVE THE "PROMISE", see acts 2:39.

    PICJAG
     
  12. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,698
    Likes Received:
    1,256
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Ah, no trap questions please. You're not going to prove anything by that route.

    I showed you enough Old Testament Scripture from Ezekiel 37 that is 'very'... specific, that God in final is going to gather the literal seed of both the "house of Israel" and the "house of Judah" back to the lands of promise given originally to their fathers. Will that include the believing Gentiles? Yes. God showed that too especially through His prophet Isaiah.

    You're right about the idea of 'strangers', I realize that depending on who is speaking in God's Word and to whom, it can mean either scattered Israelites, like those Peter referred to, or it can mean Gentiles like Ephesians 2:19 by Paul.

    One of the problems many not well studied in God's Word have are heeding men's doctrines formed about Israel outside of Scripture. And I include the Jews in that lack of understanding especially. The name 'Israel' was given to Jacob to represent God's Birthright promises, the very thing that Apostle Paul was referring to in Ephesians 2. In those promises to the seed of Israel is The Gospel of Jesus Christ. And just because only a remnant of the seed believed, that wasn't enough to make it of none effect, because it was through them under Christ that the foundations of the Christian Church were established (Eph.2 again). The word Israel means to prevail with God's help, so it really isn't just some genetic moniker that only one born of one of the 12 tribes of Israel can claim and then isolate. It is a word to represent God's Salvation through His Son Jesus Christ, always has represented that, even in Old Testament times, which is why God first prophesied of Christ through His OT prophets, even Moses. Thus Christ's Church today represents God's Israel, because the promises are to both believing Israelite and believing Gentiles, together, as one body. This is why God's Word shows Christ's Church being gathered to Jesus Who is coming back to the holy land, with them, to reign over the literal seed of Israel that God foreknew (Zechariah 14; Romans 11).
     
  13. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,315
    Likes Received:
    3,397
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Keep waiting, (smile).
    agreed, and that one body is the Church of the Lord Jesus. now the question, "where is the Holy Land?" don't think carnal... (smile).
    now just to give you an understanding what is Holy Land, and to keep many from thinking carnal, listen.
    Exodus 3:5 "And he said, Draw not nigh hither: put off thy shoes from off thy feet, for the place whereon thou standest is holy ground". well Moses was in Midian.

    now a hint. Genesis 13:17 "Arise, walk through the land in the length of it and in the breadth of it; for I will give it unto thee". now is Abraham walking today? ........ (smile).


    PICJAG.
     
  14. hermeneutics

    hermeneutics Active Member

    Messages:
    104
    Likes Received:
    51
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    As I was watching youtube I came across a video about the song Danny Boy, as I listened it hit me that this song could be about Dan, a son Israel.

    Since some article I had read before mentioned that the children of Dan left name of rivers, towns, etc as they migrated. I googled Ireland and sure enough it mentioned the tribe of Dan.

    This song of Ireland now means much more to me.
    history song danny boy - Bing
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2020
  15. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,698
    Likes Received:
    1,256
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Again just what lands to Israel also is very specific in God's Word. It is written in Ezekiel 47 thru 48.
     
  16. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    12,315
    Likes Received:
    3,397
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Psalms 24:1-5

    PICJAG.
     
Loading...