The Millennial Kingdom delivered up to the Father

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robert derrick

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Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.


For some reason, amils think this means there is no Millennium reign of Christ on earth.

In any case, someone is making the point that the kingdom to be delivered up, is not the everlasting kingdom of Christ and the Father, but rather the Millennial kingdom from earth. I like the argument and agree.

The argument is simple:

1. The kingdom spoken of is that of rule over all nations. That power is of the kings of the earth, that exercise their personal authority and rule over others.

And he said unto them, The kings of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them; and they that exercise authority upon them are called benefactors.

This is earthly dominion under personal rule of the King on earth. It is an earthly dominion as that of nations today, that He will have over all nations on earth.

Jesus Christ is not now ruling and exercising authorty with dominion over leaders of the earth today. They do not answer to Him on earth, nor does He punish them with earthly authority, if they do not obey Him. All of His reigning on earth today is spiritual leadership only.

Neither Jesus nor His saints tell leaders what to do on pains of being removed from office, and/or punishment. Any Christian that says they are reigning on the earth today with Jesus, only do so over their own households, And if they have community power, then that rule is only within the boundaries of men's laws.

2. The everlasting kingdom and eternal reign of Christ cannot be delivered to God the Father, because it's already the Father's, and has been the Father's and the Son's since His resurrection, and always shall be.

But I say unto you, I will not drink henceforth of this fruit of the vine, until that day when I drink it new with you in my Father's kingdom.

Fear not, little flock; for it is your Father's good pleasure to give you the kingdom.


How can the Father's kingdom not be His, so that it must be delivered up by the Son? And better yet, why would God need deliver up His own eternal kingdom to God?

The prophecy of Paul simply confirms the same prophecy of Rev 20:

When the thousand year reign of Christ on earth is expired, where He has subdued all nations under His feet, He will deliver up that kingdom to the Father for judgement, with the rest of the dead: those to be found in the Lamb's book of life, while the wicked of all history since Cain will be cast into the LOF, along with death itself.

Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him.

But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.


All things are prophesied to be put under Jesus' feet, and the Lord shall indeed subdue all nations under His rule, but we do not yet see that, which will not be until the expiration of His personal reign on earth.
 
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robert derrick

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The last great antichrist will play to the amil doctrine, and advance himself as Christ on earth, to force his world rule over all men.

Anyone at this time, who thinks they are advancing the personal rule of the Lord over all nations, is just another church militant false christ, whose real desire is personal dominion over all nations, enforced through fantastical proselytization, political harassment, and military power.

The last great beast to do so, will also have all powers and lying wonders of Satan, to even make fire come down in sight of men to destroy his enemies, that refuse to worship him as Christ and God.

Jesus Christ will not come again with fire down from heaven to destroy all flesh. The only next coming with such a fire, will be the last false apostle and prophet of Satan.

That is not any kingdom the Father wants, much less to receive from His dear Son.
 

ewq1938

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Jesus Christ will not come again with fire down from heaven to destroy all flesh.

Not even one person is killed by fire from Christ...no fire is even used by him in an offensive/wrathful way. He comes in fire, which is really the concept of a flash of lightning which is about how fast. He doesn't shoot fire, lasers or lightning at people.

He uses a symbolic sword and a sword is symbolic of blunt force trauma. This is why birds are described as eating the recently dead.
 

Keraz

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Not even one person is killed by fire from Christ...no fire is even used by him in an offensive/wrathful way. He comes in fire, which is really the concept of a flash of lightning which is about how fast. He doesn't shoot fire, lasers or lightning at people.

He uses a symbolic sword and a sword is symbolic of blunt force trauma. This is why birds are described as eating the recently dead.
You are wrong and Ezekiel 21:1-7 and many other Prophesies prove that the Lord will kill many people on His Day of fiery wrath. Although His Sword is not literal, the people that get killed, are humans; His enemies.
 

ewq1938

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You are wrong and Ezekiel 21:1-7 and many other Prophesies prove that the Lord will kill many people on His Day of fiery wrath.

There is no such thing as "fiery wrath" by Christ.

Although His Sword is not literal, the people that get killed, are humans; His enemies.

Everyone already knows that much. The point clearly was that fire isn't used to kill. Some think a sword represents fire.
 

Keraz

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There is no such thing as "fiery wrath" by Christ.
You fail to see the 70 + verses that plainly say the Lord will use fire to destroy His enemies. Zephaniah 3:8 The whole earth will be burned by the fire of My anger.... 2 Peter 3:7, Hebrews 10:27, + His enemies will be ashes under our feet - Malachi 4:1 & 3
 

ewq1938

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You fail to see the 70 + verses that plainly say the Lord will use fire to destroy His enemies. Zephaniah 3:8 The whole earth will be burned by the fire of My anger.... 2 Peter 3:7, Hebrews 10:27, + His enemies will be ashes under our feet - Malachi 4:1 & 3


So why are there ZERO verses in the NT about Christ using fire to kill anyone? He kills for sure, but never uses fire. There is the winepress analogy and blood which is clearly not a firery death, and Armageddon where a symbolic sword is used...blood is an obvious outcome of that.

That is Jesus specific. God (the Father) does use fire to kill and we see that very clearly in Rev 20 but that isn't Jesus nor the second coming or the time of wrath seen at the 7th trump, vials of wrath etc. Randomly cherry picking verses from the OT about fire isn't competent evidence of Jesus using fire to kill in the endtimes.
 

Keraz

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So why are there ZERO verses in the NT about Christ using fire to kill anyone?
Are you incapable of looking up 2 Peter 3:7 and Hebrews 10:27?
There is also Matthew 3:12, where Jesus will burn the 'chaff'..... that is: the ungodly peoples.
Also; Hebrews 12:29 Our God is a devouring fire.

It will be the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, when the Lord will use fire, not when He Returns.
 

ewq1938

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Are you incapable of looking up 2 Peter 3:7 and Hebrews 10:27?

No. Are you incapable of looking up 2 Peter 3:7 and Hebrews 10:27?


There is also Matthew 3:12, where Jesus will burn the 'chaff'..... that is: the ungodly peoples.

That happens when the unsaved are cast into the LOF, not before. Again, I cited two passages related to Christ and killing and fire is not used.


Also; Hebrews 12:29 Our God is a devouring fire.

It will be the Sixth Seal worldwide disaster, when the Lord will use fire, not when He Returns.

No fire is mentioned in the 6th seal. You are using eisegesis to add fire there. If I can again borrow YOUR WORDING: Are you incapable of looking up the 6th seal passage?
 

robert derrick

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Not even one person is killed by fire from Christ...
True, not at His second coming with fire made to come down from heaven. That will be the last AC on earth just prior to His coming again.

He will however destroy all them gathered around Armageddon to make war with Him, by flaming fire and spirit of His mouth. (2 Thess 1,2)

It will be by the same word of His mouth, by which He created all the stars of heaven:

By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

no fire is even used by him in an offensive/wrathful way. He comes in fire, which is really the concept of a flash of lightning which is about how fast. He doesn't shoot fire, lasers or lightning at people.
True, except initially by the spirit of His mouth and brightness of His coming, which is why he will look like lightning come from the east: It's the light of lightning that He shines.

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

It will be by both shining and speed of lightning, that He comes down to destroy all them at Armageddon. They won't even be given the chance to make war with Him, but only to gather together to do so.
He uses a symbolic sword and a sword is symbolic of blunt force trauma.
True. The sword is also spoken of as proceeding from His mouth by John in Rev 1. It's clearly a description of how His words of spirit and life proceed from His mouth.

This is why birds are described as eating the recently dead.
Yes, they are prophesied to eat of their remaining flesh. Even though their eyes will be as melted holes, by the brightness of His coming, which John says His face is as the sun shining, their carcases will be eaten of birds, just as He prophesies:

For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

The Son can come to be seen as the sun coming near with power to give life and to destroy.
 

ewq1938

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He will however destroy all them gathered around Armageddon to make war with Him, by flaming fire and spirit of His mouth. (2 Thess 1,2)


No one is destroyed by fire at Armageddon. The only weapon described is a sword.
 

Keraz

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No. Are you incapable of looking up 2 Peter 3:7 and Hebrews 10:27?
This forum is not a childs playground. Throwing a question back at the asker, is what children do.
No fire is mentioned in the 6th seal.
No, but the effects of fire are and it is the Day of the Lord's wrath, which is described in over 70 other Prophesies, as a Judgment/ punishment by fire.
It will be the world changing disaster that will set the scene fo all the prophesied things that must happen before Jesus Returns.
 

ewq1938

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This forum is not a childs playground. Throwing a question back at the asker, is what children do.

It's origin was childish. It was appropriate to return it.


No, but the effects of fire are and it is the Day of the Lord's wrath, which is described in over 70 other Prophesies, as a Judgment/ punishment by fire.
It will be the world changing disaster that will set the scene fo all the prophesied things that must happen before Jesus Returns.

Not one single one of those is related to anything the 6th seal describes, which is devoid of any fire. You are merely one of many who employ eisegesis to force their beliefs onto the texts.
 

Patrick1966

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those to be found in the Lamb's book of life, while the wicked of all history since Cain will be cast into the LOF
John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
 

Keraz

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Brother, I have no axe to grind with you but why are you so condescending and adversarial?
Because someone is wrong and it isn't the Bible Prophets, whose Words I promote. THEY never minced words; what they said is true and most is yet to come to pass.

Take the 'rapture to heaven' theory -
Firstly; such a thing is never mentioned in the Bible. Our rewards are kept in heaven, our names are kept in the Book of Life there, but we never go there and eventually God and heaven come to the earth. Revelation 21:1-7
The joke about the rapture, is that there is no general consensus among those who hold to it, as to when it could happen.

There will be a 'harparzo', 1 Thess 4:17, but heaven is only mentioned as the place Jesus comes from, never that anyone will go to live there.
 

robert derrick

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John 6:39 And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day.
True. No one obeying Jesus to endure and overcome temptation, will fail to be resurrected from the dead in that day.

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
 

Patrick1966

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No one obeying Jesus to endure and overcome temptation, will fail to be resurrected from the dead in that day.
It's my understanding that the resurrection comes at the end of ages and that ALL will be resurrected and then ALL will be given to God to join him in his kingdom on the new Earth.

What is your understanding?