The mystery Paul speaks of

[stunnedbygrace]

In Romans 11:25+ Paul says he does not want them to be unaware of this mystery so they will not become proud - that some of Israel have hard hearts but that this will only last until the full number of gentiles has come in.

Previously, he has said not everyone of Israel are true Israel, so I understand that He isn't speaking of them. But he seems to be speaking of something God gave him to see, that after the last gentile had entered, this hardness/veil over the hearts of some of Israel would be gone and they would be saved and grafted back in.

He calls it a mystery.

 

[Waiting on him]

In Romans 11:25+ Paul says he does not want them to be unaware of this mystery so they will not become proud - that some of Israel have hard hearts but that this will only last until the full number of gentiles has come in.

Previously, he has said not everyone of Israel are true Israel, so I understand that He isn't speaking of them. But he seems to be speaking of something God gave him to see, that after the last gentile had entered, this hardness/veil over the hearts of some of Israel would be gone and they would be saved and grafted back in.

He calls it a mystery.

I love a good mystery.

 

[Davy]

In Romans 11:25+ Paul says he does not want them to be unaware of this mystery so they will not become proud - that some of Israel have hard hearts but that this will only last until the full number of gentiles has come in.

Previously, he has said not everyone of Israel are true Israel, so I understand that He isn't speaking of them. But he seems to be speaking of something God gave him to see, that after the last gentile had entered, this hardness/veil over the hearts of some of Israel would be gone and they would be saved and grafted back in.

He calls it a mystery.

You'll find the prophecy he was pointing to in Zechariah 12, towards the end of the chapter.

The Israel in part which God blinded so The Gospel would go to the Gentiles, is represented by the unbelieving Jews who rejected our Lord Jesus.

It's sad that not much in-depth Bible history is taught in today's Sunday schools, because this involves the history of the children of Israel after God split old Israel into two separate kingdoms in Solomon's day.

God gave a prophecy about the ten northern tribe kingdom that He put one of the tribe of Ephraim in charge of as king. Through Hosea, God said He would end the northern "kingdom of Israel" (because of their falling to idol worship), and they would be no more, that He would scatter them, make them loose their feast days, new moons, and sabbaths, and give them the full Baal worship they coveted. This He literally did. The ten lost tribes is all about that. But He also promised to Judah (Jews) that He would not do that to them. Thus they would retain their heritage as part of Israel.

This is the reason why our Lord Jesus said that He was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel (Matt.15:24). Those represent mainly the scattered ten tribes that God had caused to lose their heritage as part of Israel long ago. The majority of the house of Judah also were scattered after their Babylon captivity. Only a small remnant of the 3 tribed "house of Judah" returned to rebuild Jerusalem and the temple. This is why James addressed all 12 tribes scattered abroad. But the remnant of Jews in the holy land still represent the 'house of Judah' today, and are the ones God blinded away from The Gospel until the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.

 

[Windmill Charge]

The mystery is about who will be saved. Will it be Israel or the gentilies?

 

[Enoch111]

He calls it a mystery.

Correct. And it is still a mystery to the majority of Christendom that God will resume His direct dealings with the Jews after the Second Coming of Christ, and a vast number will be saved by grace through faith and settled as the twelve tribes in Greater Israel (from the Nile to the Euphrates).

Paul connects the judicial spiritual blindness of the Jews with the salvation of the Gentiles. The Gospel came first to Israel and the Jews but they rejected Christ generally. Thus they were blinded to the truth. And after that Gentiles poured into the Church so that the Church is now predominantly Gentile. But as Paul says, a finite number of Gentiles will come into the Church (following which the Church will be raptured, when taking all Scripture into account).

But that did not change the fact that God made a covenant with Abraham and that covenant must be fulfilled (to the letter) in the future. The rest of Romans 11 describes that as the redemption of Israel.

However because of Replacement Theology (which originated with the Catholic Church and continued with the Protestants) the vast majority of Christians were never taught about redeemed and restored Israel in the future. They still believe that God is finished with the Jews, and that all the prophecies pertaining to Israel have somehow been transferred to the Church. That is false theology.

 

[Heart2Soul]

I have always believed God would again restore Israel to a righteous place....Hosea 14:4, Jeremiah 3:22, Isaiah 57:14-21 just to name a few.

 

[Davy]

I have always believed God would again restore Israel to a righteous place....Hosea 14:4, Jeremiah 3:22, Isaiah 57:14-21 just to name a few.

Yeah, but some of them are still going to reject Jesus, even after they see Him in the future. At that time, the crept in unawares that sneaked in among Israel will be cast out.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Yeah, but some of them are still going to reject Jesus, even after they see Him in the future. At that time, the crept in unawares that sneaked in among Israel will be cast out.

The wheat and tares...

 

[Davy]

The wheat and tares...

Yes. Many shy away from that Message in God's Word, but it's part of the requirement of gettin' your field in shape in order to bring forth much fruit. Got to plow the hard compacted path (wayside), get the stones and thorns out so they won't choke out the seed.

 

[Jay Ross]

Hello, the passage from Romans 11:25-26 in the Greek actually states something very differently. This is how I would render these verses: -

The way I would translate, – “until the fullness of the Gentiles, has come in, And so all Israel will be saved,” from the Greek text is in this way: –

“that blindness in part has happened to Israel until, with respect to time, the prophesied full time period of the ‘heathen’ Gentiles trampling the sanctuary and the Host of Israel is completed, after which all of Israel will be saved;”
​

The traditional rendering of these verses introduced replacement theology into what Paul wrote where as Paul's intention was pointing to the time when Israel would be redeemed and enter into renewing the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the nations covenant which they had rebelled against at Mt Sinai within 40 days of agreeing o that terms of that covenant. Paul was pointing to the 2300 year prophecy having run its full course in time that is recorded in Dan_8.

Zechariah 8:20-23​

20 "Thus says the Lord of hosts:
'Peoples shall yet come,
Inhabitants of many cities;
21 The inhabitants of one city shall go to/walk with another, saying,
"Let us continue to go/walk together and pray before/before the face of the Lord,
And seek the Lord of hosts.
I {the Lord of host}, myself will go/walk with {you} also."
22 Yes, many peoples and strong nations
Shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in/who resides in Jerusalem,
And to pray before/before the face of the Lord.' ​

23 "Thus says the Lord of hosts: 'In those days ten men from every language of the nations shall grasp the sleeve of a Jewish man, saying, "Let us go/walk with you, for we have heard that God is with you."'"​

Suggests that the nations will seek out the Jewish people in search of their salvation. In other words, the nations will come into relationship with Christ/God because of the redemption of Israel after the end of this present Age.

Shalom

 

[Heart2Soul]

Hello, the passage from Romans 11:25-26 in the Greek actually states something very differently. This is how I would render these verses: -

The way I would translate, – “until the fullness of the Gentiles, has come in, And so all Israel will be saved,” from the Greek text is in this way: –

“that blindness in part has happened to Israel until, with respect to time, the prophesied full time period of the ‘heathen’ Gentiles trampling the sanctuary and the Host of Israel is completed, after which all of Israel will be saved;”
​

The traditional rendering of these verses introduced replacement theology into what Paul wrote where as Paul's intention was pointing to the time when Israel would be redeemed and enter into renewing the Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the nations covenant which they had rebelled against at Mt Sinai within 40 days of agreeing o that terms of that covenant. Paul was pointing to the 2300 year prophecy having run its full course in time that is recorded in Dan_8.

Zechariah 8:20-23​

20 "Thus says the Lord of hosts:
'Peoples shall yet come,
Inhabitants of many cities;
21 The inhabitants of one city shall go to/walk with another, saying,
"Let us continue to go/walk together and pray before/before the face of the Lord,
And seek the Lord of hosts.
I {the Lord of host}, myself will go/walk with {you} also."
22 Yes, many peoples and strong nations
Shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in/who resides in Jerusalem,
And to pray before/before the face of the Lord.' ​

23 "Thus says the Lord of hosts: 'In those days ten men from every language of the nations shall grasp the sleeve of a Jewish man, saying, "Let us go/walk with you, for we have heard that God is with you."'"​

Suggests that the nations will seek out the Jewish people in search of their salvation. In other words, the nations will come into relationship with Christ/God because of the redemption of Israel after the end of this present Age.

Shalom

Which is why God said He will bless those who bless Israel (stand with them) and curse those who curse Israel.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I have always believed God would again restore Israel to a righteous place....Hosea 14:4, Jeremiah 3:22, Isaiah 57:14-21 just to name a few.

It even just feels right. And oddly, it feels like a repeat, as I see the church now in the hardening and unbelief and sense of entitlement that Israel was in that got them booted, which became to our blessing and...it will happen again in reverse...

 

[Heart2Soul]

It even just feels right. And oddly, it feels like a repeat, as I see the church now in the hardening and unbelief and sense of entitlement that Israel was in that got them booted, which became to our blessing and...it will happen again in reverse...

But don't forget we are still the ones who were instrumental in spreading the Gospel of Jesus to the whole world. I believe America has one last period of Grace to return to Him. He has already brought judgment on it in some degree....like a wake up call. We will experience an outpouring of His Holy Spirit and a fresh anointing will be poured out and revival will come to this land one last time.
Restoration of His Church....The Acceptable Year of the Lord. A final call to repentance then He will gather His people (Jews) back to their heritage and fulfill His Word through them.

 

[VictoryinJesus]

In Romans 11:25+ Paul says he does not want them to be unaware of this mystery so they will not become proud - that some of Israel have hard hearts but that this will only last until the full number of gentiles has come in.

Previously, he has said not everyone of Israel are true Israel, so I understand that He isn't speaking of them. But he seems to be speaking of something God gave him to see, that after the last gentile had entered, this hardness/veil over the hearts of some of Israel would be gone and they would be saved and grafted back in.

He calls it a mystery.

Oddly...No one has an issue with saying in having abolished in his flesh the enmity....having broken down the middle wall of partition...therefore making peace and two are made one. (Ephesians 2:13-15) they expect not only a resurrection of Spirit but also of a glorified body ...that which is Spirit entering first into the kingdom of God, and flesh also in (of His flesh and bone) the two reconciled in Christ. we can’t assume or wait with anticipation for his casting off the Jews forever....EVEN those after the flesh. As many believe God has not cast off flesh forever but has reconciled two into a New perfect man in Christ(flesh and bone). Paul grieved for those according to the flesh...as Moses did. Romans 9:1-3 I say the truth in Christ, I lie not, my conscience also bearing me witness in the Holy Spirit, [2] That I have great heaviness and continual sorrow in my heart. [3] For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh:
^I looked up “accursed” and it means separated from God...bearing witness in the Holy Spirit Paul said he wished to be separated from Christ for those according to the flesh. Who else was accursed and “entangled”....crying “why have you forsaken me” for those after the flesh, as they parted his raiment and cursed Him?

I know it is weird but hear what God says in Jonah: So Jonah went out of the city, and sat on the east side of the city, and there made him a booth, and sat under it in the shadow, till he might see what would become of the city. [6] And the Lord God prepared a gourd, and made it to come up over Jonah, that it might be a shadow over his head, to deliver him from his grief. So Jonah was exceeding glad of the gourd. [7] But God prepared a worm when the morning rose the next day, and it smote the gourd that it withered.(the cover over his head) [8] And it came to pass, when the sun did arise, that God prepared a vehement east wind; and the sun (heat)beat upon the head of Jonah, that he fainted, and wished in himself to die, and said, It is better for me to die than to live. [9] And God said to Jonah, Doest thou well to be angry for the gourd? And he said, I do well to be angry, even unto death. [10] Then said the Lord, Thou hast had pity on the gourd, for the which thou hast not laboured, neither madest it grow; which came up in a night, and perished in a night: [11] And should not I spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than sixscore thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?

Do we fear God in how much we curse and expect evil to come upon others. (IMO) we should be careful in sitting under a shadow and waiting to see what will become of those persons that can not discern between their right hand and their left hand. It might come upon us instead. It has always stood out “you have pity on the gourd...for which you have not labored, neither made grow; which came up in a night and perished in a night..” but we except God not to have pity for what He has labored for (long suffering none should perish)when we know from Job the end: The Lord is “pitiful and full of mercy.”

 

[Heart2Soul]

It even just feels right. And oddly, it feels like a repeat, as I see the church now in the hardening and unbelief and sense of entitlement that Israel was in that got them booted, which became to our blessing and...it will happen again in reverse...

I just heard a preacher say this on tv and I was reminded......the bible says the gentiles will provoke the jews to jealousy to seek Him.
Before Christ, the Gentiles were without hope and without God (Eph 2:12). Now the Gentiles are being saved as a result of the disobedience of the Jews (Rom 11:30). But the process does not stop there. The salvation of the Gentiles is designed to provoke the Jews to jealousy so that they may be saved: “salvation has come to the Gentiles to make Israel envious” (Rom 11:11). In fact, the olive tree into which the Gentiles have been grafted (the church) has Jewish roots—Gentiles are grafted in “contrary to nature” from a “wild” olive tree (Rom 11:24).