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Featured The Nature of God

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by TopherNelson, Sep 18, 2016.

  1. TopherNelson

    TopherNelson New Member

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    I AM WHO I AM – The Nature of the Almighty
    Who is God? What is God’s nature? Humans struggle on comprehending the nature of God because of their human conscious and the way they insist on attributing human limitations upon God. They then wonder why they could never understand God, scripture, nor any theological subject with complete clarity. Humans have a tendency to be presumptuous, not knowing the nature of God but yet tried to explain away from their ignorance; lacking proof and evidence. [appeal to ignorance] Human perception is vulnerable to become deception. The scripture (Christian bible) is the only paramount evident worthy to be taken as authority and proof. The scripture is the only way to verify and discern the position of doctrines and teachings in the Christian church. [appeal to authority] There is only two position, the absolute truth or falsehood. Truth is under no circumstances ever mixed with lies.
    [No lies is of the truth – 1 John 2:21]
    The chief figure of Christianity is Jesus Christ. Howbeit, those who avow to be the followers of Christ do not seem capable to distinguish who exactly is Jesus Christ. Different denominations have to a certain extent tried to answer this very question; Who is Jesus, God? Angle? Prophet? Man? While most accept the trinity as the true nature of God and Jesus. There are still some that believe Jesus is an angle, while some believe he is a decent morally man perhaps even a prophet. While the trinity is held as the truth for centuries [appeal to tradition] and as the norm for the majority of Christian churches in the past and today. [appeal to popularity] However, does it actually mean that the trinity is true? Or does the minority count? Does twisted truth count? There is only absolute truth, and no part of false is in truth.
    The only Christian way to validate the nature, characteristic, and the being of Jesus is through the scripture. To begin with, the scripture had shown that God is the creator of the heavens and the earth and also of all living creatures, which include humans. God is also in charge of his creation [Genesis]. The scripture furthermore show that God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, and omnibenevolent. As for Jesus, the old testament had prophesied of His arrival and virgin birth, the work that He would perform and His authority. He is to be called Emmanuel (God with us) [Isaiah 7:14]. The new testament furthermore shows the miracles and the sign Jesus had performed, the way He is filled with wisdom and yet humble. The way He humbled Himself was became obedient to the Father even unto death on the cross. The scripture portrayed Jesus as sinless and righteous, and pointed towards Him as being the final atonement for sins. To be the redeemer of mankind. Continuing, upon returning to Heaven, Jesus told the disciples that He will ask the Father to send a helper (Holy Spirit) [John 14:16]. The scripture portrayed the Holy Spirit as living in the heart of the believers, as the One who empowers Jesus and the believers. Furthermore, the scripture says anyone who blasphemy the Holy Spirit shall never be forgiven [Matthew 12:31]. Why is it so?
    A few things need to be understood regarding God. Firstly, He is referred to as the Ancient of Days in the book of Daniel [Daniel 7:9]. What is meant by that? Days (time) are the creation of God. God is quite literally the Ancient of Days, as in “before” days. God is already there before the creation of days and time. There was no “before”, “now” and “after” before creation, time simplify doesn’t exist. However, God has always existed. A very common question from Christians is: “What was God doing all that time before He created the earth, the heavens and all of creation the living things, angles and humans.”
    They are missing the point that there was no time before God created it. Time is a created entity. The first verse of Genesis state that, [In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth – Genesis 1:1]. A closer study later reveal that God created the space-time universe. Matter, and dimensions. Time is only meaningful if physical reality exists and events transpire over/during time. “In the beginning” was when time and creation begin, there was and always is and forever will be God existing before or after creation. As finite and mortal created beings, we can never really understand. Faith is required for us to understand as God reveal it to us, piece by piece. Now, faith is not against reason, but such things go beyond understanding. As the scripture says, [But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that He is, and that He is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. – Hebrews 11:6] God made physical reality, time, space, matter, and even the very concepts that govern the scientific principles of the universe. God is above His creation. He is not subject to any of the constraints of physics, time, location, or dimensions. It is God's very nature to be infinitely dimensional, everywhere located, and containing an ability to have an infinite amount of trains of thought simultaneously.
    Secondly, God loves. True love.
    True love is different from false love, in that with true love, God rebukes and disciplines. Thirdly, God is Holy. God cannot stand wickedness and sins in His eyes. God is Holy. If Christians love God, they will not do what God hates (sins). God is Holy and righteous, because sins separate us from the blessing of God, we will all die in our sins. God sent His Son, Jesus to be the atonement for our sins. He is the anointed one, the prince and the Messiah spoken throughout scripture and age. Jesus is the Son of God because He was literally born from Mary through the overshadowing of the Most High God [Luke 1:35].
    Jesus had memories and had to learn to read and had to study Scripture as we do. He was fully and completely human in every way. That is why he required the anointing of the Holy Spirit during John’s baptism. Jesus said to the Jews, “Before Abraham was, I am”. “I Am Who I Am” was given to Moses when Moses asked for God’s name (In the ancient world, names are sentences and words that shows the characteristic of a being). Jesus was born as a man. He needed the Holy Spirit to empower Him. In John 1:1 the language used is "word" or "logos" in Greek. Logos is a philosophy popular in the time of its writing that John used to explain what Jesus is in relation to God.
    Jesus is the logos of God: the manifestation of God's thoughts and words into actual substance.
    Scripture. Speaks of Jesus :
    "He is the brightness of His [God's ] glory. The expressed manifestation of His person."
    From Jesus' perspective, He was human and had memories that went back to being young. He had human limitations and needed the HOLY SPIRIT to empower Him. He subjected Himself to human limitations except for sin.
    God has 100% of His attention on every single individual thing simultaneously and separately. He has an infinite amount of trains of thought and can put 100% of His thought into each one. Becoming human isn't very difficult for Him. Scripture is our guidebook to understand God. Scripture is the guide for us to properly worship God. Scripture is the standard behind all of us. The Word of God never contradict itself.
     
  2. michaelvpardo

    michaelvpardo Well-Known Member

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    sorry, more problems with the editor functions. God doesn't have a nature (He created nature) so theologians talk about His character and His attributes. We are forced to describe the infinite with terms derived from the finite. The following post will contain my only real objection to your statements.
     
  3. michaelvpardo

    michaelvpardo Well-Known Member

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    I enjoyed your posting, but take issue with your presentation of Christ's need for the Holy Spirit. Jesus was indeed fully man, but also fully God. His virgin birth was by the power of the Holy Spirit, so He was born of the Holy Spirit as much as He was born of the Father, and men always have a share in the essence of their fathers. Furthermore, Jesus existed before His birth; He is the eternal Son of God who came down from Heaven and returned to it. Jesus didn't need the Spirit of God to empower Him at His baptism. He was anointed with the Holy Spirit and proclaimed with the voice from heaven as a testimony and witness of His person (as you will find in scripture.) Did Jesus do miraculous things as a child, the way Hollywood portrays Him? If He did its unlikely that we'll ever know about it prior to having the opportunity to ask Him directly. He said Himself that the purpose of His baptism was "to fulfill all righteousness," not to be empowered. We, on the other hand, have need of the baptism of the Spirit, not just to be empowered by God, but to be born of God. We, in keeping His command to be baptized by water, publicly identify ourselves with Christ in His death (also found in scripture), but it is the baptism of His Spirit which gives us new life in Him as well as the power to understand and to keep His word.
    All in all, your presentation was very thoughtful if not entirely accurate, and I'm confident that continued study will open up your vision to see the full stature of Christ in the glory that was His from the foundation of the world. Amen & Amen.
     
  4. TopherNelson

    TopherNelson New Member

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    He was anointed with the Holy Spirit, I agree with that. He need his own spirit to do the work He did. Because his body is flesh. The problem is, God isn't this:
    [​IMG]
     
  5. TopherNelson

    TopherNelson New Member

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    Of course Jesus is fully God, HE IS GOD. He is not partly God. Of course Jesus is fully human. God isn't a type of being, God is GOD. The problem with trinity is, it explains God with split personality disorder.

    John 1:1
    "In the beginning was the Word (Logos)"
    Logos was a popular philosophy in the ancient world. Both the Greeks and the Hebrews had their own version of it. The apostle John used the philosophy to teach Yeshua's relation to The Father. What John is saying is that Yeshua is the manifested form of the mind and thoughts of God into actual flesh.
    Paul writes in Hebrews:
    Hebrews 1:3
    "He [The Son] is the radiance of his glory, the very image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had made purification for sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;" Right hand means authority. He is the son because He was literally born from Mary. Yeshua had memories and had to learn to read and had to study Scripture as we do. He was fully and completely human in every way.

    The SPIRIT of God is God and God sitting on a throne is a manifestation of His Holy and Most transcendent and majesty glory into a from that His creation can see, hear, and interact with. The SPIRIT literally put HIS own manifestation into the form of a child and placed it into Mary. Study what scripture says about Him.
     
  6. TopherNelson

    TopherNelson New Member

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    The trinity is among the reason why Jews reject the incorrect message of salvation. The trinity comes from paganism. In fact, every single pagan religion in ancient history has a trinity. The Jews stand out throughout history because they are monotheistic. Today, christian preach to them about 3 beings being coequal and co-eternal. Do you think they will accept that? For your information, I am not preaching the "oneness" doctrine by certain Pentecostals.

    "Behold! YAHWEH your God is ONE!"

    Study scripture, many people are guilty of making up such a blasphemous false belief.
     
  7. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    God is who he says he is and who he reveals he is in his written word.
    Gen 1:21 reveals the triune nature of God. Jesus reveals the true nature of God in Matthew 28:19 and John 1:1 & 14 reveal the triune nature of God. The Shema in Deuteronomy 6:4 tells us our triune God is one in purpose and scope. It has nothing to do with singularity.
     
  8. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    BTW, I've known many Messianic Jews who had no problem at all accepting the Trinity.
     
  9. TopherNelson

    TopherNelson New Member

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    Baptize of Nation in THE NAME...
     
  10. michaelvpardo

    michaelvpardo Well-Known Member

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    Another excellent post, if the personal information you gave the site is accurate, you are quite a scholar from your youth and share a name with the great king. That is an awesome responsibility, but handling the word of God always is. At least you must know of what tribe you are?
    I think that by the diagram you were addressing some form of Trinitarian doctrine and I would suggest that you not tread lightly upon things that can bite you back. Or not tread on them at all if you can avoid it. Trinitarian thought can be traced back to mystery religions, such as the cults of Egypt and those of Babylon, two places where the children of Israel have dwelt in servitude. While I dislike the notion of dividing God (which has a blasphemous sound to it) I have no problem with distinguishing the trinity as God in three persons in terms of how He relates to us and yet all being the One and the same God (e'chad?). God the Father, the fullness of God in eternity. God the Son, the fullness of God dwelling in man created in His own image, God the Spirit who enters into His creation in order to interact with us. The rest of us just get to enter the family through adoption.
    The "personality disorder" notion comes from a poor understanding of reality (ignorance) in that the finite man can never grasp the infinite and the unclean can never stand in the presence of the Holy God in the fullness of His glory. We all need a covering, which can only be that of His own righteousness.
     
  11. StanJ

    StanJ Lifelong student of God's Word.

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    Yes just like in Acts where Peter says there is no other name under Heaven by which we must be saved but that of Jesus Christ. It obviously doesn't just connote a simple name, but an authority and power to forgive sin.
     
  12. tom55

    tom55 Love your neighbor as yourself

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    I wouldn't count on the personal information he gave as being accurate. But that is just my opinion based on my research of him.

    To suggest that God has a "split personality disorder" shows he is not a scholar but a reader and promoter of previous heretics. Heretics that have been fully dealt with by greater men than you or I.
     
  13. tom55

    tom55 Love your neighbor as yourself

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    The trinity comes from paganism??? That is not historically or factually or scripturally accurate.

    If you are not preaching the Oneness Pentecostal doctrine then what you are preaching is either modalism or sabellianism or patripassianism which are pretty much all of the same heretical teaching.

    Which one is it you are preaching??

    Where are you getting your information or "knowledge" from??
     
  14. michaelvpardo

    michaelvpardo Well-Known Member

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    Perhaps, but the "Split personality disorder" is an accurate description of some peoples' concept of the trinity. Please bear with me a moment for another long and not particularly interesting anecdote. I met a fellow, quite a few years ago, an elderly gentleman in a nursing home. While I was sharing the good news with one soul in the room, this fellow spoke up and asked me if I was a rider or a walker. This may seem like a strange question, but some people view the church as composed of two sorts of people, those who walk with Christ, and those who come along for the ride (for their own benefit.) So we spoke "theology" for a few minutes and I was surprised a little to hear this old gentleman tell me that he really liked Jesus, but that His Father was a bit rougher (to paraphrase). This is a simple and somewhat childish view of a god who is at odds with himself, and not the God of the Bible. There is no disagreement between God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. Their differences are for our benefit, yet they are all one in mind and in Spirit. The Lord is in perfect harmony with Himself. He couldn't be anything else but that, because He is not dualistic, He has no equal, and He doesn't share His glory with another.
    More than one saint has been murdered by the "mother of harlots" and every one that was put to death was put to death for a "heresy" of some sort, so I wouldn't be so quick to judge the man (or boy as it were). I've written more than one thing that has sounded cultic to some ears, but in Jesus' time all His disciples were considered cult members. We are to consider what someone says or writes against what the scripture says, because God doesn't contradict Himself. If we see a contradiction in scripture, we haven't understood the passages properly. If we see a contradiction in what someone says or professes elsewhere, we still need to evaluate what was said or written against what God has said or written. I'll tell you that right now, in this time, in this age, it has never been more important for believers in our Lord Jesus Christ (or Yahshua (?) ha Mashiach) to be familiar with what God has said in His word and what He is saying to each one of us who have trusted and received Him.
    The prophet Isaiah gave all of God's people a warning with regard to seeking His will or seeking to know truth in general:
    18. Here am I and the children whom the Lord has given me! We are for signs and wonders in Israel From the Lord of hosts, Who dwells in Mount Zion.
    19. And when they say to you, "Seek those who are mediums and wizards, who whisper and mutter,'' should not a people seek their God? Should they seek the dead on behalf of the living?
    20. To the law and to the testimony! If they do not speak according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. Isaiah 8:18-20
    If you haven't read it, I would recommend the entire book; its a beautiful and delightful testimony of God to the person of His Son, which even includes the gospel in chapter 53 for those who have eyes to see it and written quite a while before the birth of our Lord. The quote above is from a passage about seeking psychics and mediums for answers to personal need and the point is that if they don't speak according to the word of God its because they don't know Him and aren't able to give you anything true to guide your way. This is the test of any doctrine that relates to truth.
     
  15. michaelvpardo

    michaelvpardo Well-Known Member

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    Tom, if you find some decent writings about Free Masonry and the mystery religions (such as the worship of Osiris in Egypt, a murdered and resurrected god) you'll see that the Trinitarian idea of God didn't begin with Christ, but Jesus did tell us that all who came before (Him) were thieves and liars. You don't have to go to something that arcane, even a good historical documentary about the pharaoh called "Akhenaten" or "Ikhnaton," who was murdered by his priests for introducing a monotheistic practice of worshipping the sun as a symbol of the giver of life and using a symbology much like that of the Bible's early poetic forms, will reveal that some Jewish and Christian practices have their imitations in the doctrines of demons. Even the anti-Christ is supposed to be representing a kind of unholy trinity. In the case of the aforementioned pharaoh, I believe that he used the rays of the sun as representative of life giving power (spirit) and placed himself in the position of God's representative to the world (though I may be inaccurate having gone over this material decades ago.)
    Free Masons, who relish the symbolism of death and resurrection, have embraced many religions that share common symbols with common meanings (something of a harlot, you might say) and since their mystery religions predate the Christ, its not unfair to associate the development of Trinitarian thought with pagan religion. This doesn't make Trinitarian belief untrue, and I would suggest that the commonality of certain concepts in the pagan religions comes from a knowledge shared by fallen angels, who know God and the scripture, but did not fear opposing Him.
     
  16. michaelvpardo

    michaelvpardo Well-Known Member

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  17. tom55

    tom55 Love your neighbor as yourself

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    Free Masonry was started in the mid 1800's, well after Jesus, so I am not sure what they have to do with the Trinitarian belief which started 2,000 years ago???

    If you are suggesting the Egyptians had a trinity and they worshiped Osiris, Isis, and Horus, (their equivalency of our Trinity) thousands of years before the Trinity of Scripture you are completely and utterly wrong.

    The Egyptians had a pantheon of nine major gods and goddesses. Osiris, Isis, and Horus were three divinities in the pantheon who were closely related by marriage/blood and who figured in the same myth cycle. They did not represent the three persons of a single divine being which is the Christian understanding of the Trinity. The claim of an Egyptian trinity is simply wrong and there is NO parallel.

    Even if there is a pagan parallel that does not mean that there is a causal relationship involved. Pagans and Christians may develop similar beliefs, practices, and artifacts totally independently of each other.

    The idea that similar forms are always the result of diffusion from one source has long been rejected by archaeology and anthropology. Why? Because humans are similar to each other and live in similar environments, leading them to have similar cultural artifacts and views. To make a charge of paganism stick you must be able to show more than a similarity between something in the Christian practice and something in the non-Christian practice. You must be able to demonstrate a legitimate connection between the two, showing clearly that one is a result of the other. That can NOT be done when comparing paganism to Christianity. Similar does not equal copying from.

    The "development of the Trinitarian thought" is STRONGLY and CLEARLY supported with Matthew 28:19, where Jesus instructs the apostles to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Are you suggesting Jesus didn't mean what he said when he named three DISTINCT entities? Are you suggesting HE had paganism in mind when he said this??

    Cor. 13:14: the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all. (Three separate entities)

    Read Ignatius of Antioch and Justin Martyr who are the earliest writers affirming the Trinity (even though they don't use the word Trinity).

    The Trinitarian belief is not untrue. It is clearly stated in scripture and supported by the history and belief of the Christian Church for 2,000 years.
     
  18. TopherNelson

    TopherNelson New Member

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    "The Trinitarian belief is not untrue. It is clearly stated in scripture and supported by the history and belief of the Christian Church for 2,000 years."

    I'm sorry, God had revealed that this isn't him:
    [​IMG]




    p.s. "trinity" is only mentioned in the "Mystery Babylon's religion" and her "harlots". "The apple didn't fell far from the tree."

    Got school, see you guys later...
     
  19. TopherNelson

    TopherNelson New Member

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    I preach to prepare the way for the Lord. I obviously did not get it from the Roman Catholic Church.
     
  20. TopherNelson

    TopherNelson New Member

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    Research of me? NSA?

    I did not suggest that God had a personality disorder. You, the Roman Catholic Church, and her Harlots did. I did not say that I am a scholar, neither did I say I am a promoter of heretics. I did say that I am David, the one who judges heretics and lunatics.
     
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