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The Necessity of the Crucifixion

Discussion in 'Praise Forum' started by VictoryinJesus, Aug 9, 2017.

  1. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Active Member

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    God amazes me anew everyday. The son never wasted a single word as He suffered amongst men; understandably. neither does the word. I have always found John 21:7 to be an odd verse "Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him , (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea."

    LORD, why make a point of telling us Simon Peter girt his fisher's coat unto him (for he was naked) and cast himself into the sea???

    Only recently haven I given thought to the truth that the disciples were not converted until after the cross. Even though they spoke and walked and followed after Jesus daily, their well intentions and goodness was not enough.

    Luke 22:31-32 KJV

    [31] And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat:

    [32] But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.


    The Necessity of the Crucifixion:

    Mark 14:46-52 KJV

    [46] And they laid their hands on him, and took him.

    47] And one of them that stood by drew a sword, and smote a servant of the high priest, and cut off his ear.

    48] And Jesus answered and said unto them, Are ye come out, as against a thief, with swords and with staves to take me?

    [49] I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled.

    [50] And they all forsook him, and fled.

    51] And there followed him a certain young man, having a linen cloth cast about his naked body ; and the young men laid hold on him:
    52] And he left the linen cloth, and fled from them naked.



    Without the Crucifixion, we would all be as the young man... naked.


    Hebrews 4:12-16 KJV

    [12] For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

    13] Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

    14] Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.

    15] For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.

    16] Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
     
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  2. pia

    pia Well-Known Member

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    Hello....that's wonderful... Yes the day of Pentecost was a huge fulfillment also. Great to see you got understanding on that too :)
     
  3. DPMartin

    DPMartin Active Member

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    if you notice in the same book John makes sure you also know who won the race when him and Peter ran to the Lord's grave site after they were informed.

    John also mentions in the same chapters when Jesus visted them at the sea that when Jesus said :

    Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

    that John clarifies what Jesus said and what it meant.


    FYI
    there is a considerable effort to discredit the Gospel according to John in that John wasn't the writer thereof. and John put proofs if you will, that the document is by his hand. that then the Apostles would be the only ones to know if it was John or not and could verify authenticity, especially Peter. these guys knew each other before Jesus came into their lives they were partners in fishing enterprises and many of the Apostle were brothers by flesh John and James, Peter and Andrew, Philip and Nathanial also if my memory serves. there were many bogus documents in those days and bogus preachers, just as today. there are many bogus translations and paraphrased bibles and many bogus theologies and preachers.
     
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  4. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Active Member

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    To be honest, I am not sure I understand. Maybe it is over my head. I am not familiar with anyone trying to discredit John as the writer. I stay away from that sort of stuff. For me, John is the writer, given inspiration by the Holy Spirit.
     
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  5. DPMartin

    DPMartin Active Member

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    if you read the book you see where what John writes the apostles could verify if the writing is from John or not. he refers to himself as the one the Lord loved, and there is other things he wrote in there that would let the apostles verify the book is from John and that is the reasoning be hide mentioning things like peter being naked or not.

    I could be mistaken but John wrote the only gospel that is written by some one that was actually there through out the whole ministry of Jesus Christ from baptism to the Cross to the resurrection to ascending to the Father.
     
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  6. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Active Member

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    I understand now. Thank you for sharing and bringing to light something I know nothing about. I wasn't aware of the verification given within the text to prove John as the writer to the other Apostles.
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2017 at 9:01 AM
  7. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    ha nice
     
  8. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    where, again? i missed the ref where he refers to himself as that one, ty

    or ok, since he did not specifically refer to himself, how is this connection made? I get "we aren't sure who wrote the Gospel of John," and "we aren't sure who is the one whom Jesus loved," but i'm not quite getting what passage is used to justify that that one is John? ty
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2017 at 10:03 AM
  9. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    "While the Gospel of John does not specifically identify its author, and 'the disciple whom Jesus loved' is nowhere explicitly named in Scripture, the early Christians universally recognize John as the author of the Gospel and 'the disciple whom Jesus loved.'"

    "It is interesting that John referred to himself as 'the disciple whom Jesus loved.'"
    (no reference though, all i can find is allusions to it?)
    Disciple Whom Jesus Loved
     
  10. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Little did John know , that when he wrote about Peter at the last moment outrunning him into the tomb, he was "stamping in name" on the book of John . I love that! :)
    I also like when he tells us the he was asking Jesus about Peter's death..and Jesus says- " mind you own business, and follow ME! " :D
    Both these entries show the humility of John himself.

    @VictoryinJesus
    Thank you for the OP , very good :)
     
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  11. pia

    pia Well-Known Member

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    Hi, yeah I too found that great, because mostly what I see, in an awful lot of Christians, is that they are almost always trying to get into things, which are NOT their business, and worse still, the gossip I have come across over the years within fellowships. Far too many things seem to be considered NOT important, and well, far too much gets made out of other things. Of course we are all still learning, but there are a few things which are 'no brainers' in my view..
    I am glad wrote that Jesus said to FOLLOW HIM, because many seem to completely ignore that...
    Bless you :)
     
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  12. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    so no one can provide a ref for this? Because i don't believe it is in There, tbh. "The disciple whom Jesus loved" is being misunderstood here imo
     
  13. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Active Member

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    John 13:23-25 KJV
    [23] Now there was leaning on Jesus' bosom one of his disciples, whom Jesus loved. [24] Simon Peter therefore beckoned to him, that he should ask who it should be of whom he spake. [25] He then lying on Jesus' breast saith unto him, Lord, who is it?

    John 21:20-22 KJV
    [20] Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? [21] Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do ? [22] Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to thee? follow thou me.

    As the writer, if John is referring to himself, then that is him acknowledging that he is that disciple, whom Jesus loved? I couldn't find where John says He IS that disciple, maybe someone else will post it. o_O
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2017 at 9:09 AM
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  14. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    No cross no crown, Revelation 1:6 "And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
    Good, yea he clothed us with his righteousness.

    PS. there was one Necessity of the Crucifixion that did puzzle me for years, long ago, but the Lord Jesus revealed it unto me. the "forsaking statement". Matthew 27:46 "And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? that is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?". if it wasn't for the Crucifixion we wouldn't have the Holy Ghost IN US today. This answer, of God, the Father forsaking the Son, is bared out in Isaiah chapter 59, the word forsaking, (forsook), means separation, not to desert, but to LEAVE BEHIND. by the cross of DEATH, the Spirit separated or came out from the flesh, or Left the flesh behind so it can go first to the spirits in prision and preach redemption to them, and later be poured out on all flesh, (Joel 2:28 & 29). because the sins of the whole world will be laid on him. God cannot dwell in an unclean place, hence another reason for the separation. and by the shedding of blood we're CLEAN, and ready for his Spirit to indwell us. the scripture is clear, God will never forsake you, read Hebrews 13:15. and he didn’t here (on the cross) nor today. He just prepared himself for glorification, for himself, and for US, glory to God, what a mighty God we serve. REDEMPTION started on the cross with our Lord Jesus the Christ forsaking his own flesh as we must do. Then this great glorious work of redemption, poured over with Peter and then the disciples, being filled with the Spirit, and the actions of the Holy Spirit is confirmed in the book of Acts chapter 2 onward until to today. see, the cross touches us toady by the out pouring out of the Spirit on us. again, if no cross, no crown. for edification, the whole chapter of Isaiah 59 is worth your reading.
     
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  15. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    i doubt it, because it does not exist! Ty tho :)
     
  16. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Active Member

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    Praise the Lord for revealing this(about forsaking) to you therefore providing nourishment for the whole body! Your post greatly blessed me. I went immediately to the scripture you referenced. 101G, Thank you for sharing what He shared with you! I don't think we praise Him enough for what He provides through others within the body. There are biologist, painters, carpenters, those that study color spectrum and light, archeologists, those that study space and time, history and prophecy... so much more. We are all different. If we could only learn to praise what others learn of him in areas we have not yet been shown!
     
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