THE NEW EARTH

[Berean]

The Bible Teaches

• That “...The LORD, Who is God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did not create it in vain, Who formed it to be inhabited: ...” (Isa. 45:18 NKJV).
• That God created Adam, “the first man” (not as a spirit being, but as a human being), “of the dust of the earth, earthy” (1 Cor. 15:45, 47; John 3:31). He was formed [not of spirit substances, but of elements found on the earth] and “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; {life’s energizing power} and man became a living soul” (a living being Gen. 2:7).
• That God promised Adam and his race a home on earth (Gen. 1:28), not in heaven. A home in heaven was promised to the Church only, and Jesus did not prepare it for them until after His ascension (John 14:2).
• That the one true Church was to consist only of those, regardless of race, social standing or sex (Gal. 3:28), who would follow in Jesus’ footsteps (1 Pet. 2:21), present themselves to God as living sacrifices (Rom. 12:1), and become new creatures (2 Cor. 5:17); who were accepted to live and reign with Jesus (Rev. 20:4, 6) in heaven as spirit beings.
• That Jesus since His resurrection, is a Divine spirit being, so the Church (Rev. 21:2, 9; 19:7) was changed also, from human to Divine beings in the first resurrection (1 Cor. 15: 49-54).
• That the “elect,” of the Christian Age, the Church, will, during the Millennial Kingdom (Acts 3:21), be used by God as Abraham’s Heavenly descendents, {“stars of the heaven”} in blessing all the families of the earth {“sand on the seashore”} (Gen. 22:17) which is (the non-elect; Gal. 3:8, 16, 29).
• That Jesus “is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, {the Church} and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world” (1 John 2:2). That by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone” (Heb. 2:9).
• That Abraham’s human descendents were promised a portion of this earth (not heaven!) as their ever-lasting possession (Gen. 13:15; 17:8, Amos 9:15).
• That God will eventually destroy {not keep alive and torment} all the willfully wicked (Psa. 145:20), including the devil himself (Heb. 2:14).
• That just as “the old world” (the order of affairs among men before the Flood) “being overflowed with water, perished” (2 Pet. 2:5; 3:6), but the literal earth did not end because we are still living on it; “this present evil world” (its social orders of affairs) Gal. 1:4, with its symbolic heavens and earth {its false secular and religious control}, is “reserved unto fire,” to “pass away with a great noise,” to be “devoured with the fire of my jealousy” (2 Pet. 3:7, 10-12); but note! The literal earth is to remain, “for then will I {God} turn to the people {who will remain after the “fire” - the trouble} a pure language that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent” (Zeph. 3:9).
• That in “the world to come,” {the new order of affairs in the Millennium} (Heb. 2:5), according to God’s promise, will be a “new heavens {new religious ruling powers Christ and the Church} and a new earth {human society reorganized on justice}, wherein dwells righteousness {justice, and love, not injustice, and hatred}” (2 Pet. 3:13).
• That in the “new-earth” “the ransomed of the Lord {the non-elect} shall return {from the grave. John 5:28, 29 R.V.}, with songs and everlasting joy... and sorrow and sighing shall f lee away.” “Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped” (Isa. 35:10, 5); “they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them”... “The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the ox” {not in heaven, but in the new earth}... “They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain {kingdom}, says the Lord” (Isa. 65:21-25; Micah 4:4).
• That God’s kingdom will come and His will shall be done in earth as it is in heaven and His way will “be known upon earth.” among all nations; that “God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death”; “there shall be no more curse” (Psa 67; Rev. 21:4: 22:3).

 

[Bob Estey]

The Bible Teaches

• That “...The LORD, Who is God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did not create it in vain, Who formed it to be inhabited: ...” (Isa. 45:18 NKJV).
• That God created Adam, “the first man” (not as a spirit being, but as a human being), “of the dust of the earth, earthy” (1 Cor. 15:45, 47; John 3:31). He was formed [not of spirit substances, but of elements found on the earth] and “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; {life’s energizing power} and man became a living soul” (a living being Gen. 2:7).
• That God promised Adam and his race a home on earth (Gen. 1:28), not in heaven. A home in heaven was promised to the Church only, and Jesus did not prepare it for them until after His ascension (John 14:2).
• That the one true Church was to consist only of those, regardless of race, social standing or sex (Gal. 3:28), who would follow in Jesus’ footsteps (1 Pet. 2:21), present themselves to God as living sacrifices (Rom. 12:1), and become new creatures (2 Cor. 5:17); who were accepted to live and reign with Jesus (Rev. 20:4, 6) in heaven as spirit beings.
• That Jesus since His resurrection, is a Divine spirit being, so the Church (Rev. 21:2, 9; 19:7) was changed also, from human to Divine beings in the first resurrection (1 Cor. 15: 49-54).
• That the “elect,” of the Christian Age, the Church, will, during the Millennial Kingdom (Acts 3:21), be used by God as Abraham’s Heavenly descendents, {“stars of the heaven”} in blessing all the families of the earth {“sand on the seashore”} (Gen. 22:17) which is (the non-elect; Gal. 3:8, 16, 29).
• That Jesus “is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, {the Church} and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world” (1 John 2:2). That by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone” (Heb. 2:9).
• That Abraham’s human descendents were promised a portion of this earth (not heaven!) as their ever-lasting possession (Gen. 13:15; 17:8, Amos 9:15).
• That God will eventually destroy {not keep alive and torment} all the willfully wicked (Psa. 145:20), including the devil himself (Heb. 2:14).
• That just as “the old world” (the order of affairs among men before the Flood) “being overflowed with water, perished” (2 Pet. 2:5; 3:6), but the literal earth did not end because we are still living on it; “this present evil world” (its social orders of affairs) Gal. 1:4, with its symbolic heavens and earth {its false secular and religious control}, is “reserved unto fire,” to “pass away with a great noise,” to be “devoured with the fire of my jealousy” (2 Pet. 3:7, 10-12); but note! The literal earth is to remain, “for then will I {God} turn to the people {who will remain after the “fire” - the trouble} a pure language that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent” (Zeph. 3:9).
• That in “the world to come,” {the new order of affairs in the Millennium} (Heb. 2:5), according to God’s promise, will be a “new heavens {new religious ruling powers Christ and the Church} and a new earth {human society reorganized on justice}, wherein dwells righteousness {justice, and love, not injustice, and hatred}” (2 Pet. 3:13).
• That in the “new-earth” “the ransomed of the Lord {the non-elect} shall return {from the grave. John 5:28, 29 R.V.}, with songs and everlasting joy... and sorrow and sighing shall f lee away.” “Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped” (Isa. 35:10, 5); “they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them”... “The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the ox” {not in heaven, but in the new earth}... “They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain {kingdom}, says the Lord” (Isa. 65:21-25; Micah 4:4).
• That God’s kingdom will come and His will shall be done in earth as it is in heaven and His way will “be known upon earth.” among all nations; that “God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death”; “there shall be no more curse” (Psa 67; Rev. 21:4: 22:3).

I would see the new earth as a spiritual thing - it is our state of mind once we are walking with the Lord. It is peace of mind.

 

[ShineTheLight]

I would see the new earth as a spiritual thing - it is our state of mind once we are walking with the Lord. It is peace of mind.

The new earth will be like the one we're in now, without the corruption.

 

[Bob Estey]

The new earth will be like the one we're in now, without the corruption.

And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God ... Revelation 21:2 RSV

 

[Ronald Nolette]

The Bible Teaches

• That “...The LORD, Who is God, Who formed the earth and made it, Who has established it, Who did not create it in vain, Who formed it to be inhabited: ...” (Isa. 45:18 NKJV).
• That God created Adam, “the first man” (not as a spirit being, but as a human being), “of the dust of the earth, earthy” (1 Cor. 15:45, 47; John 3:31). He was formed [not of spirit substances, but of elements found on the earth] and “breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; {life’s energizing power} and man became a living soul” (a living being Gen. 2:7).
• That God promised Adam and his race a home on earth (Gen. 1:28), not in heaven. A home in heaven was promised to the Church only, and Jesus did not prepare it for them until after His ascension (John 14:2).
• That the one true Church was to consist only of those, regardless of race, social standing or sex (Gal. 3:28), who would follow in Jesus’ footsteps (1 Pet. 2:21), present themselves to God as living sacrifices (Rom. 12:1), and become new creatures (2 Cor. 5:17); who were accepted to live and reign with Jesus (Rev. 20:4, 6) in heaven as spirit beings.
• That Jesus since His resurrection, is a Divine spirit being, so the Church (Rev. 21:2, 9; 19:7) was changed also, from human to Divine beings in the first resurrection (1 Cor. 15: 49-54).
• That the “elect,” of the Christian Age, the Church, will, during the Millennial Kingdom (Acts 3:21), be used by God as Abraham’s Heavenly descendents, {“stars of the heaven”} in blessing all the families of the earth {“sand on the seashore”} (Gen. 22:17) which is (the non-elect; Gal. 3:8, 16, 29).
• That Jesus “is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, {the Church} and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world” (1 John 2:2). That by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone” (Heb. 2:9).
• That Abraham’s human descendents were promised a portion of this earth (not heaven!) as their ever-lasting possession (Gen. 13:15; 17:8, Amos 9:15).
• That God will eventually destroy {not keep alive and torment} all the willfully wicked (Psa. 145:20), including the devil himself (Heb. 2:14).
• That just as “the old world” (the order of affairs among men before the Flood) “being overflowed with water, perished” (2 Pet. 2:5; 3:6), but the literal earth did not end because we are still living on it; “this present evil world” (its social orders of affairs) Gal. 1:4, with its symbolic heavens and earth {its false secular and religious control}, is “reserved unto fire,” to “pass away with a great noise,” to be “devoured with the fire of my jealousy” (2 Pet. 3:7, 10-12); but note! The literal earth is to remain, “for then will I {God} turn to the people {who will remain after the “fire” - the trouble} a pure language that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent” (Zeph. 3:9).
• That in “the world to come,” {the new order of affairs in the Millennium} (Heb. 2:5), according to God’s promise, will be a “new heavens {new religious ruling powers Christ and the Church} and a new earth {human society reorganized on justice}, wherein dwells righteousness {justice, and love, not injustice, and hatred}” (2 Pet. 3:13).
• That in the “new-earth” “the ransomed of the Lord {the non-elect} shall return {from the grave. John 5:28, 29 R.V.}, with songs and everlasting joy... and sorrow and sighing shall f lee away.” “Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped” (Isa. 35:10, 5); “they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them”... “The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the ox” {not in heaven, but in the new earth}... “They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain {kingdom}, says the Lord” (Isa. 65:21-25; Micah 4:4).
• That God’s kingdom will come and His will shall be done in earth as it is in heaven and His way will “be known upon earth.” among all nations; that “God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death”; “there shall be no more curse” (Psa 67; Rev. 21:4: 22:3).

YOu sound very much like a Jehovahs Witness in many of these points you make.

The one I will point out is that you are wrong about the destiny of the lost.

They will suffer forever as Scripture declares!

 

[Berean]

You sound very much like a Jehovah's Witness in many of these points you make.

I'm NOT one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

The one I will point out is that you are wrong about the destiny of the lost.

They will suffer forever as Scripture declares!

Can you provide your scriptural support for this view?

Thanks

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I'm NOT one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Can you provide your scriptural support for this view?

Thanks

I'm NOT one of Jehovah's Witnesses.

Can you provide your scriptural support for this view?

Thanks

Revelation 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

those who receive the mark are tortured forever and have no rest!

Revelation 20:10

King James Version

​

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

Jesus cast the antichrist and false prophet into the lake of fire 1,000 years earlier and they are still there! Destroyed burned up ashes would not be described as the people still being there.

Revelation 20:13-15

King James Version

​

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Notice the order?

13: sea, death and the grave give up their dead.
14: Death and the grave are destroyed in the lake of fire
15: Then with death and the grave no more- people are cast into the lake of fire.

Also Mt. 13:42 and 50 where people tossed into the furnace of fire shall wail and gnash their teeth.

Also the true account of Lazarus and the rich man. The rich man, found in the place of torments was alive and well and suffering.

 

[Berean]

Revelation 14:11

And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.​

those who receive the mark are tortured forever and have no rest!

Revelation 20:10​

10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.​

Jesus cast the antichrist and false prophet into the lake of fire 1,000 years earlier and they are still there! Destroyed burned up ashes would not be described as the people still being there.

Hmmm, keep in mind that the Book of Revelation is a book of symbols and not everything is to be taken literally. Verse 10: "And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever." Revelation 14:11 mentions that “the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever.” The thought is the same here in verse 10. The “smoke” (the memory of what happened to the beast and the false prophet) will rise up forever, as will the memory of the fate of Satan and the dragon civil power. Verse 10 states, “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone [into Second Death, from which there can be no resurrection], where the beast and the false prophet are, and [they plural] shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” Since the beast and the false prophet are symbols of false religious institutions, and not living entities, how can they be tormented? Furthermore, “the dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence” (Psa. 115:17); and “the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything....Also their love,and their hatred,andtheir envy, is now perished” (Eccles. 9:5,6)

 

[Berean]

Revelation 20:13-15

13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.​

Notice the order?

13: sea, death and the grave give up their dead.​

14: Death and the grave are destroyed in the lake of fire​

15: Then with death and the grave no more- people are cast into the lake of fire.​

Ok, let's examine these verses one by one.

Verse 13 - And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Now this is a complicated and difficult verse in the context. The first thing to be noticed which will help us is that it is a commentary on verse 12. Verse 12 simply states that all the world will come under judgment for life via works. Verse 13 shows the breadth of the meaning of "the dead" in verse 12. "The dead" is not merely "the great and the small," but, as we shall now see, this verse encompasses a statement about their collective condition (as a "sea" class), and a statement about their individual "locations" (death and hades) as they enter the
mediation process.

A paraphrase of this verse might help as we begin its consideration:

"The whole race was now (as mediation began) restless and without stability. Nevertheless, it yielded up its death-ridden members for the resurrection process. Even the "'walking dead" (death), as well as the "literally dead" (hades) were yielded up for judgment during the period. Each - from the time the mediation begins, even back to Eden's time -was offered resurrection by judgment (krisis)​

by what he would D0 in this new opportunity."​

Now, THE SEA we usually define as "the restless masses." The definition does not substantially change here. What HAS changed is that their is NO LONGER ANY "EARTH!" "Earth" fled away in verse 11! The old heavens and earth of the Satanic Kingdom are all gone. That has led
humanity without its old "'stabilities" or "moorings." And when the literally dead return, they also will find that their "earth" is gone - leaving them with the instability which is symbolized by the "sea." Consequently, ALL MANKIND is now "sea." Thus, Isaiah 60:1-5
(particularly verse 5) shows that all of the world as "sea" will be converted to the Lord as a result of this new Kingdom. (You'll see in
21:1 that this will result in such stability that "there is no longer any sea." There will be only "a new earth.")

And IN this "sea" we find two classes as people enter the mediation:
(1)There are those who are yet breathing, but functionally "dead." They are here stated to be "death" which gives "up the dead." (2) And the other class are those who are "asleep" in their tombs -- their oblivion. They are here stated to be "hades" (oblivion) which also gives "up the dead which were in it." Thus we have ALL of mankind (the "sea"), regardless of whether or not they have literally died, ultimately standing before the throne to give up their dying condition. And they do so (as stated in the previous verse also) by submitting to the judgment of their works over the time of the mediation -- the resurrection by krisis. (John 5:29)

Thus verses 12 and 13 have given us the details of the perfecting of the race as individuals by the Mediator. Verses 14 and 15 will show
the disposal of everything or everyone found unworthy of continuation before the Mediator turns over the perfectly-perfected race to God.
There will be NO FLAW in them at all.

Verse 14 - "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death."​

Verse 14 will deal with the eternal destruction of INANIMATE THINGS. Verse 15 will deal with the eternal destruction of SENTIENT
BEINGS. As a point of review: The "second death" is not so-named because something or someone dies a second time! That SHOULD BE obvious here! Death and Hades don't die twice! And yet, they are said to be sentenced to "second death." But "second death" is here CLEARLY DEFINED! The "first death" was the death (or curse) placed upon the race due to Adam. THAT was the "first death sentence" in the
entire Divine creative history! Its peculiarity is that people COME OUT OF IT! The "Lake of Fire" (which is the term as the description of the "second death"), on the other hand, never will let anyone or anything out of its grasp. It is the "second death sentence" which is pronounced in the Divine Plan -- the second TIME a death sentence is pronounced. As far as we know, there will never again be another one! It is death by individual responsibility.

Thus, the two deaths that have names ("Adamic" and "Second") have nothing to do with dying twice! They are simply two separate
and different sentences to the death state -- One temnporary, and one permanent. (The second death can contain things, as well as spirit
beings, and humans.)

Verse 14 lets all know that inherited death (Adamic death) -- whether evident in the still living ("death") or in the graves that held those who stopped breathing ("hades") -- will never occur again. The whole concept of inherited (or Adamic) death will have been consigned to
oblivion. We must admire the force of the verb here! It is THROWN into the "Lake of Fire."

Verse 15 - "And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

Now the Revelator turns to sentient beings. While they CAN literally die twice (if they are humans -- not spirit beings), THẤT is not the
point! But the point is that they CAN BE sentenced to death more than once. And this second sentence has no hope for release.

The determination as to whether or not someone during the Mediation receives this second sentence (which is permanent) is whether or not he has made it successfully into the record of "the Book of Life" -- the "permission-to-live certificate" (or full resurrection). If a person has not attained this life-registry, he meets the same forceful THROWING into irretrievable oblivion.

Thus, this verse concludes the Mediatorial-Reign description. It ignores the Little Season entirely-- a time when a final Determination is made as to whether all "Book of Life" entries are permanent. It is at this point (before the little season) where the Mediator (1 Corinthians 15) turns over the Kingdom to the Father.

 

[Berean]

It's best to look at these verses in context and not isolate them

Also Mt. 13:42 and 50 where people tossed into the furnace of fire shall wail and gnash their teeth.

Verse 42 is part of Jesus' parable of the Wheat and the tares. Remember, parables are hidden gems of truth that were not meant for everyone to understand, that's why when asked in Matthew 13:10

​

“Why do You speak to them in parables?” 11 He answered and said to them, “Because it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given. ... 13 Therefore I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand."|​

​

Now what about verse 42?

36 ... And His disciples came to Him, saying, “Explain to us the parable of the tares of the field.” 37 He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man. 38 The field is the world, the good seeds are the sons of the kingdom, but the tares are the sons of the wicked one. 39 The enemy who sowed them is the devil, the harvest is the end of the age, and the reapers are the angels. 40 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. 41 The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, 42 and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then the righteous will shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. He who has ears to hear, let him hear!​

Are we to assume that there are literal seeds? Literal wheat and tares? The devil like a gardener sowing seeds? Are these literal angels that will fly around snatching all things that offend? No! This parable is speaking of true and false Christians. The "wailing and gnashing of teeth" represents the great disappointment (and most likely anger) of the tare class when they realize that they have been duped by the adversary into thinking that they were true disciples of Christ and lost out on the opportunities of being part of the Bride Class. Space doesn't allow me to get into more detail.

 

[Berean]

Also the true account of Lazarus and the rich man. The rich man, found in the place of torments was alive and well and suffering.

Ah yes, Lazarus and the rich man. You know the challenge of a parable such as the Rich Man and Lazarus is that (a) it is more tempting than most parables to be lulled into reading it literally, and (b) without the proper interpretation, there is the possibility of misapplying the metaphors in an attempt to harmonize conflicting details.

Many professing Christians like yourself will read this and instantly grab hold of the fiery torment as a justification for their concept of eternal torment in hell. Additionally, being gathered to Abraham’s bosom may very well fit with their idea of a “heaven,” with a clear void between the two that is unbridgeable. To them, we would ask — in what other parables are the components so literally understood? Is the parable of the Wheat and Tares literally about harvesting wheat? Is the Pearl of Great Price an actual pearl? Does Jesus actually speak about a literal fig tree that bore no fruit? If in no other circumstance does our Lord mean exactly what he says, then certainly it would be uncharacteristic to deviate in such a way in this passage.

Luke 16:14,15 shows that Jesus was speaking here to the Pharisees. When Jesus gave doctrinal instruction in such cases, he used parables. “Without a parable spake he not unto them” (Mark 4:34). This indicates that here also Jesus used a parable. Commentaries on this passage widely and correctly, recognize it as a parable. In addition, Jesus identified the five brethren of the rich man as “having Moses and the prophets” (verse 29). This is very helpful as we search for a proper interpretation of the parable.

Once we determine that the rich man represents Israel, while the poor man represents the Gentiles, the metaphors crack wide open. The strength of this interpretation is that it so neatly addresses so many of the odd features of the story.

1: Lazarus is mentioned by name. In no other parable does Jesus name one of the characters. However, in this case, it foreshadows the reluctance of Israel to believe, even when confronted with overwhelming evidence. Giving the name Lazarus to the poor man makes the point of their unbelief more strongly. It is difficult to put an exact time frame to events, but it is likely this parable was told a mere week or two prior to the actual raising of Lazarus!

2: The rich man seems to be punished for no sin, but just for being rich! Unless we are to gather that the act of being rich automatically made him a sinner, we must search for some other rationale for why he has fallen into disfavor. If we look at this from the standpoint that death indicates a change of dispensation, and see that this rich man had previously been favored by God, this becomes a story about favor being withheld.

Once we consider that the rich man represents the nation of Israel, some of the descriptive terms fall into place. For instance, the nation of Israel was rich with God’s promises. His white linen garment is a symbol of righteousness — a wonderful picture of the righteousness of God’s Chosen People reckoned righteous through their adherence to the Law. Furthermore, purple is a symbol of royalty, as they held the highest position of honor due to God’s favor. Despite these blessings, they fell out of favor and were replaced by the Gentiles.

3: Given our understanding that a fiery hell is unscriptural, how does the rich man’s torment fit into this picture? If we see the change of favor, the rich man losing favor and the poor man gaining, it pictured the transition from the Jewish Age to the Gospel Age. Because of unbelief, Israel lost its favored position with God and would see difficult persecution during the Gospel Age. This mistreatment is foreshadowed by the torment inflicted upon the rich man.

In our Lord’s day, Jews looked down upon Gentiles and considered them dogs. The Syrophoenician woman of Matthew 15:21-28 is a good example. Jesus, at first, ignored her and his disciples begged him to send her away. Yet he did speak with her; first, he explained that he was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel (verse 24), and continued by telling her that it was not good to throw children’s bread to the dogs (verse 26). In verse 27 she replied: “Yes, Lord; but even the dogs feed on the crumbs which fall from their masters’ table” (NASB). The parallel concept is conveyed in our parable. Lazarus is described as longing to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table (Luke 16:21). The connection then is that Lazarus pictured Gentile “dogs” who came into Christ.

This parable was to make it plain to the Jews that they had been given every opportunity and had squandered them. Though perhaps the full meaning was hidden, it would be hard for even the most antipathic to deny Lazarus’ resurrection and the implication that this was the Messiah they had been looking for. Those who did listen and understood the connection would have their faith strengthened that much more. Furthermore, this is just one confirmation among many that the favor previously reserved for Israel had been passed to the Gentiles. It is an indication of the progression of God’s Plan and an affirmation that our understanding of that plan is in harmony with His will.

“And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence” (Luke 16:26).​

The great gulf fixed between the rich man and Lazarus “represents the wide difference between the Gospel Church and the Jew. Israel’s inability to see Christ for who he is has created this great chasm between the position of favor and disfavor. However, this was not to be a permanent separation. In the Greek word for “gulf” (Strong’s 5490), there may be a hint of a time feature. Strong’s concordance defines the word as, “chasm or vacancy (impassable interval).” Though the definition more directly applies to the philosophical differences between the Church and Israel, Strong’s suggestion that is was an “impassable interval” may describe a time period in which the chasm could not be bridged. This could possibly be linked to the 1845-year period of Israel’s disfavor. It certainly would fit the point of the parable.

The ending of the Jewish double commenced in 1878 AD when the Berlin Congress of nations opened the way for Jews to purchase land in Israel. This marked the beginning of bridging the gulf, with national favor gradually returning to Israel. The chasm will be fully bridged when Israel finally accepts Jesus as Messiah, as indicated in Zechariah 12:10. The rich man will then be fully restored to divine favor. This process is also indicated in Ezekiel 37 in the picture of a valley of dry bones gradually coming to life.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Revelation 14:11 mentions that “the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever.” The thought is the same here in verse 10. The “smoke” (the memory of what happened to the beast and the false prophet)

By what authority do you allegorize this verse and make it mean something other than what the normal usual meaning of the Words mean?

Verse 10 states, “And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone [into Second Death, from which there can be no resurrection], where the beast and the false prophet are, and [they plural] shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.” Since the beast and the false prophet are symbols of false religious institutions, and not living entities, how can they be tormented?

The bible, plainly, clearly and unambiguously call them men- why you don't is beyond me.

Furthermore, “the dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence” (Psa. 115:17); and “the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything....Also their love,and their hatred,andtheir envy, is now perished” (Eccles. 9:5,6)

I take it then that you do not believe in progressive revelation. That must mean you believe that the Psalmist knew all about Jesus, crowns of rewards, the church and Gentiles being given equal status with Jews.

verse 12. "The dead" is not merely "the great and the small," but, as we shall now see, this verse encompasses a statement about their collective condition (as a "sea" class), and a statement about their individual "locations" (death and hades) as they enter the
mediation process.

This is just gobbledy gook word salad.

"The whole race was now (as mediation began) restless and without stability. Nevertheless, it yielded up its death-ridden members for the resurrection process. Even the "'walking dead" (death), as well as the "literally dead" (hades) were yielded up for judgment during the period. Each - from the time the mediation begins, even back to Eden's time -was offered resurrection by judgment (krisis)by what he would D0 in this new opportunity."

WOW! thank God we have you to translate English for us.

Now, THE SEA we usually define as "the restless masses." The definition does not substantially change here. What HAS changed is that their is NO LONGER ANY "EARTH!" "Earth" fled away in verse 11! The old heavens and earth of the Satanic Kingdom are all gone. That has led
humanity without its old "'stabilities" or "moorings." And when the literally dead return, they also will find that their "earth" is gone - leaving them with the instability which is symbolized by the "sea." Consequently, ALL MANKIND is now "sea." Thus, Isaiah 60:1-5
(particularly verse 5) shows that all of the world as "sea" will be converted to the Lord as a result of this new Kingdom. (You'll see in
21:1 that this will result in such stability that "there is no longer any sea." There will be only "a new earth.")

You sure do sound like a JW. YOu use much similar language and retranslating the word of God to fit your opinions.

But instead of going through your colorful retranslating the written word and telling us what god really meant (for that is what you are doing- YOu say, this is what is written, but this is what God really emans) Please answer me this.

If we are not to take Gods Word seriously when it is plainly written and understood by th emany, why should we take your redefinitions literally and not retranslate them as you do to gods Word??????

 

[Berean]

By what authority do you allegorize this verse and make it mean something other than what the normal usual meaning of the Words mean?

So you take a book of symbols and take them literally? Then I guess this is a real beast!

The bible, plainly, clearly and unambiguously call them men- why you don't is beyond me.

Can you show me where?

I take it then that you do not believe in progressive revelation. That must mean you believe that the Psalmist knew all about Jesus, crowns of rewards, the church and Gentiles being given equal status with Jews.

The Psalmist, just as Daniel and others, simply wrote down what was either told them or what they saw in visions. Do you think Daniel and the Apostle John actually understood what they were writing?

This is just gobbledy gook word salad.

That's why the Lord spoke in parables, because it was not for you to understand. But some day you will.

WOW! thank God we have you to translate English for us.

It's no different from paraphrase Bibles, like the Message and others.

You sure do sound like a JW. YOu use much similar language and retranslating the word of God to fit your opinions.

I guess I can say the same about Catholics and Protestants

But instead of going through your colorful retranslating the written word and telling us what god really meant (for that is what you are doing- YOu say, this is what is written, but this is what God really emans) Please answer me this.

If we are not to take Gods Word seriously when it is plainly written and understood by th emany, why should we take your redefinitions literally and not retranslate them as you do to gods Word??????

I'm not "retranslating God's Word," I'm interpreting them, which is my right to do, this is what the Spirit of God has led me to believe.

BTW ... While God's Word is written, it is NOT always "plainly" as you suggest. You want to take the Book of Revelation as "plainly written", then I'll assume you believe the streets of Heaven are paved with gold, that Jesus has long white hair and beard like wool, that he will literally return to earth with his angels riding on horses. That there's a literal harlot that rides a beast. All the best with that interpretation.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

So you take a book of symbols and take them literally? Then I guess this is a real beast!

No, I do take a book that has symbols and know there is much literal truth there as well! Even symbolic things have literal truth behind them.

But I follow what is known as the golden rule of bible Understanding:

When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.”–Dr. David L. Cooper (1886-1965),
founder of The Biblical Research Society

Language, context are things that let us know when something is symbolic.

The Psalmist, just as Daniel and others, simply wrote down what was either told them or what they saw in visions. Do you think Daniel and the Apostle John actually understood what they were writing?

I would venture a guess and say no. But I cannot sit and pretend to know how much they did or did not understand. but I do know that when the bible uses symbols-EVERY symbol is also defined in scripture.

That's why the Lord spoke in parables, because it was not for you to understand. But some day you will.

Well I understand the Lord and the parables He spoke- You are not the Lord.

It's no different from paraphrase Bibles, like the Message and others.

And paraphrases are horrendous. You associate yourself with horrendous works.

I guess I can say the same about Catholics and Protestants

If you look for perfection in men, you won't find it other than Jesus in them.

But you are one of myriads who do the following " I know what is written, but I will tell you what it really means". Youi pretend you have special insight that few others have and that we must rely on you to really know what the bible means. this is cultic philosophy. the Same Holy spirit that dwells in you also dwells in all believers.

I'm not "retranslating God's Word," I'm interpreting them, which is my right to do, this is what the Spirit of God has led me to believe.

Wrong!

2 Peter 1:20-21

King James Version

​

20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

YOu and the legion of other reinterpreters have no right to interpret Scripture but to accept and obey.

BTW ... While God's Word is written, it is NOT always "plainly" as you suggest. You want to take the Book of Revelation as "plainly written", then I'll assume you believe the streets of Heaven are paved with gold, that Jesus has long white hair and beard like wool, that he will literally return to earth with his angels riding on horses. That there's a literal harlot that rides a beast. All the best with that interpretation.

It is plain if you study to show yourself approved!

For all we know- the streets of the new Jerusalem are paved with gold. Can you biblically prove they are not with adding your own opinion?

Why not horses? He may or may not come on a horse. I won't disagree with a passage of Scripture that can be true. As for His hair- why not white? It has to be some color! Why do you feel compelled to disagree with passages that make perfect sense on their own?

Now if you wish to discuss passages that we can know are symbolic- we can dso so.

Remember God created language and He left us His word for us to grow by! He knows ourt limitations so He inspired it in such a way so HIs children can grow and learn from what is written and not rely on fancy "interpreters" who declare they have received some kind of special revelation.

 

[Berean]

When the plain sense of Scripture makes common sense, seek no other sense; therefore, take every word at its primary, ordinary, usual, literal meaning unless the facts of the immediate context, studied in the light of related passages and axiomatic and fundamental truths, indicate clearly otherwise.”–Dr. David L. Cooper (1886-1965), founder of The Biblical Research Society

I don't know Cooper, so his words hold no weight with me.

I would venture a guess and say no. But I cannot sit and pretend to know how much they did or did not understand. but I do know that when the bible uses symbols-EVERY symbol is also defined in scripture.

What is hidden in the Old, is revealed in the New.

If you look for perfection in men, you won't find it other than Jesus in them.

I do not put my trust in man.

But you are one of myriads who do the following " I know what is written, but I will tell you what it really means". Youi pretend you have special insight that few others have and that we must rely on you to really know what the bible means. this is cultic philosophy. the Same Holy spirit that dwells in you also dwells in all believers.

Wrong!

And yet here you are, telling me that I'm wrong.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

The Bible teaches much of what you summarized; BUT there are a few discrepancies that I noticed.

That Jesus since His resurrection, is a Divine spirit being, so the Church (Rev. 21:2, 9; 19:7) was changed also, from human to Divine beings in the first resurrection (1 Cor. 15: 49-54).

Jesus was always divine. The Pre-incarnate Lord was, is and is to come Lord Almighty. He is the great "I AM", Who spoke to MOSES. He introduced Himself not definitively; but through time would reveal Himself when He would appear in human form.
I am the Bread of Life
I am the Light of man
I am the Way, the Truth and the Life
I am the Resurrection
I am the Good Shepherd
I am the Door
I am the Alpha and Omega
I am He

That the “elect,” of the Christian Age, the Church, will, during the Millennial Kingdom (Acts 3:21), be used by God as Abraham’s Heavenly descendents, {“stars of the heaven”} in blessing all the families of the earth {“sand on the seashore”} (Gen. 22:17) which is (the non-elect; Gal. 3:8, 16, 29).

The Millennial Kingdom will ONLY consist of the elect. It will be a Christian world entirely. All other unbelievers of other faiths will be destroyed, atheists too.

The literal earth is to remain, “for then will I {God} turn to the people {who will remain after the “fire” - the trouble} a pure language that they may all call upon the name of the Lord, to serve him with one consent” (Zeph. 3:9

No the first heaven and first earth will pass away, " Then I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea ..." Rev. 21:1
The first earth (physical planet) and first heavens ( universe), will be destroyed and replaced.
But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up. 2 Peter 3:10

Notice: Not just the works of man but the literal earth will be destroyed.
Remember heavens consists of two physical heavens: the earth's atmosphere separating the waters and outer space, the 100 billion galaxies, each co.posed of 100 billion suns that compose the universe.

That in “the world to come,” {the new order of affairs in the Millennium} (Heb. 2:5), according to God’s promise, will be a “new heavens {new religious ruling powers Christ and the Church} and a new earth {human society reorganized on justice}, wherein dwells righteousness {justice, and love, not injustice, and hatred}” (2 Pet. 3:13).

Wrong interpretation, see above explanation.

That in the “new-earth” “the ransomed of the Lord {the non-elect} shall return {from the grave. John 5:28, 29 R.V.}, with songs and everlasting joy... and sorrow and sighing shall f lee away.” “Then the eyes of the blind shall be opened, and the ears of the deaf shall be unstopped” (Isa. 35:10, 5); “they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them”... “The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the ox” {not in heaven, but in the new earth}... “They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain {kingdom}, says the Lord” (Isa. 65:21-25; Micah 4:4).

Earth is the physical 7,000 mile diameter rock co.posed if physical elements. We were made by the dust (dirt) of the earth.
It just so happens that Moses was right, we are composed of 17 elements that are in the earth. So when you see earth it does not mean the elect. The elect are human souls, whose spirits have been transformed, given new life.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I don't know Cooper, so his words hold no weight with me.

What is hidden in the Old, is revealed in the New.

I do not put my trust in man.

And yet here you are, telling me that I'm wrong.

YOur opinions are not new. You have merely parroteed the thoughts of myriads of others who have come and gone.

Have you submitted these3 thoughts to a local pastor for authentication? They are the gift god gave the church to mature the saints.

Do you even belong to a local assembly and sit under the authority of a pastor teacher?

So if you do not personally no a man their words hold no weight with you? I guess you reject all the writings of the NT that are not red lettered then.

Why should anyone hold any weight with your words? I don't know you .

 

[Berean]

YOur opinions are not new. You have merely parroteed the thoughts of myriads of others who have come and gone.

As have you my friend.

Have you submitted these3 thoughts to a local pastor for authentication? They are the gift god gave the church to mature the saints.

Oh, then I too must be a gift, since I pastor a small group in my area.

Do you even belong to a local assembly and sit under the authority of a pastor teacher?

See above!

So if you do not personally no a man their words hold no weight with you? I guess you reject all the writings of the NT that are not red lettered then.

I didn't know Cooper was inspired like the Bible writers.

Why should anyone hold any weight with your words? I don't know you .

Anyone with an open mind should be able to investigate and find out for themselves. I don't profess to have all the answers, nobody does.

 

[Jay Ross]

Have you submitted these thoughts to a local pastor for authentication?

My pastor told me I was wrong because I held to a very different understanding of the Parable of the Talents where he believes that the man who goes away for a time is Jesus, whereas my understanding is that the man who goes away is Satan.

He stated that Jesus has given His disciples "talents" to go out into the world to win souls for the kingdom, but his premise is false because nowhere in this parable does it talk about the "saints" going out to win souls for Christ.

What it does tell us is that the man who goes away gives the first good and faithful servants money to the tune of 5 talents in value of money because of his ability to trade with the five talents he received, to the second good and faithful servant he gave 2 talents in value of money because of his ability to trade with the 2 talents and to the third servant he gave only one talent in value of money to trade with.

Now if the Parable of the talents was all about winning souls that when the man came back to receive the gain that his servants had obtained while he was gone then there would have reports of the number of souls that they had won but the text of the parable tells us that the first good and faithful servant returned the five talents to his master and gave the master another five talents, and his master applauded him saying, "Well done, good and faithful servant; you were faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord." Also, the second good and faithful servant came and said, ‘Lord, you delivered to me two talents; look, I have gained two more talents besides them.’ to which his master applauded him also and said, ‘Well done, good and faithful servant; you have been faithful over a few things, I will make you ruler over many things. Enter into the joy of your lord.’

“Then he who had received the one talent came and said, ‘Lord, I knew you to be a hard man, reaping where you have not sown, and gathering where you have not scattered seed. And I was afraid and went and hid your talent in the ground. Look, there you have what is yours.’

To which the man who went away responded to the third servant agreeing with him. "You wicked and lazy servant, you knew that I reap where I have not sown and gather where I have not scattered seed. So, you ought to have deposited my money with the bankers, and at my coming I would have received back my own with interest."

Sadly, my pastor has no understanding of what the parable of the Talents is all about and has decided that the man who goes away for a time is actually Jesus and not Satan.

You had suggested that @Berean should submit his understanding to a local pastor for authentication but if the local pastor has not the word of God within Him, what is the point of that.

My pastor told me that I was wrong because I dared to disagree with his interpretations of the scriptures in critical biblical references and that his understanding was the correct understanding to have to which his choir of adoring souls said, this is true and amen brother, which was music to the pastor's ears.

We all need to be careful with our interpretations and understanding of God's word in the scriptures and not throw pearls down in front of swine.

Christs requires us to have a backbone and to hold to the truths that are found in the scriptures and not blindly accept someone else's claim to holding God's truth to lord it over us.

People need to put their trust in the Lord and look at the adversity that may come our way as a blessing to strengthen our resolve to press further into God's love for us.

Shalom

 

[Ronald Nolette]

As have you my friend.

Well at least I have verified them by Scripture.

Oh, then I too must be a gift, since I pastor a small group in my area.

Were you appointed pastor by the laying on of hands by other elders? Before that were you a member in particular of a local assembly?

I didn't know Cooper was inspired like the Bible writers.

So you believe that rule- which has been used for nearly 2 millenia is wrong? Forget the man and focus on the words. Is he wrong and if so- w2hy?

Anyone with an open mind should be able to investigate and find out for themselves. I don't profess to have all the answers, nobody does.

So if one is to disagree with you, you conclude they are not open minded then? How do you know your opinions of revelation are correct? How have you verified them as correct? YOu definietely have reinteerpreted real words and make them allegorical when the literal is very valid. How do you prove your allegorical reinterpretations are what really God meant?

How do we know if you really mean what you say and we should not reinterpret them as you do Gods word?