The Old Covenant and the New Covenant are the same Law and purpose.

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Hobie

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2009
2,423
930
113
South Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Christ was the Son of God establishing the new covenant by perfect obedience to the law of God in fallen human flesh. Jesus was not just a devout Jew living under the old covenant, He was our example of how to live in the covenant with God. No church or religious institution or denomination can bestow on man a religious experience based on an intimate personal relationship with Christ. It is not given through the acceptance of reciting hail marys or following dogma, and obedience to the commandments and the performing of rituals cannot earn it. The believer can only attain this relationship in a constant renewing, growing, and unlimited life with God, or he may slip into a worship in form only.

Paul was so concerned about the slipping into a worship in form only, that he rebuked the churches in Galatia:

Galatians 4:9-11
“9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.”

It was necessary to explain to Jews and Gentiles alike the principles of man's salvation as an act of divine grace alone. Since man's obedience and keeping of the commandments could not contribute to his justification, if it was 'grace' alone, why then, obedience? Here we find the balance that excludes obedience as a means of 'earning' salvation but makes true obedience the natural fruit of salvation by faith. Human efforts at salvation by works are replaced by divine omnipotence as the only power to make man ready for the kingdom of righteousness. We must accept it by faith, and completely surrender our lives to Christ.

A covenant, in the ancient Near East in general and in Old Testament times specifically, was a solemn promise and/or agreement, often confirmed by an oath. If you ask the question, "When did the old covenant begin?" most people would say on Sinai, when the law was given. But if you ask, "When did the new covenant begin?" the answers are all over the place, but one text can clarify it.

Jeremiah 31:31-33
“31 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the Lord:
33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This text contains the basic elements of both covenants and also helps in understanding them.
The old covenant has the time, "I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt".
It has the covenant partners, "I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:"

It has the covenant objective, "I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

It has the covenant conditions, "my law"
Now let’s look at the new covenant in Hebrews 8:8-10:

“8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:"

Using the same passage which is repeated, the same elements are found for the New Testament, except for the difference in time.”

The new covenant has the time, "Behold, the days come".
It has the covenant partners, "a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:"

It has the covenant objective, " I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:".

It has the covenant conditions, "my laws"

So except for the time element, there is no difference between the two covenants. The covenant partners are the same, the covenant objective is the same, and the covenant conditions are the same. The old Covenant and the new Covenant are the same, it was by faith and denying self and trusting in God, and we are transformed. We see it here.

Matthew 16:24-25
24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

John 10:1-17
1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber.
2 But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep.
3 To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out.
4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.
5 And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.
6 This parable spake Jesus unto them: but they understood not what things they were which he spake unto them.
7 Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep.
8 All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them.
9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture.
10 The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
12 But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.
13 The hireling fleeth, because he is an hireling, and careth not for the sheep.
14 I am the good shepherd, and know my sheep, and am known of mine.
15 As the Father knoweth me, even so know I the Father: and I lay down my life for the sheep.
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

John 10:27
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

The covenants are one and the same, in Law and purpose, and there is only one gospel, and it is the gospel of Jesus Christ which is of faith. It was always that way from Adam on down.
 

Pearl

Well-Known Member
Staff member
Encounter Team
Apr 9, 2019
11,344
17,180
113
Lancashire
Faith
Christian
Country
United Kingdom
Jesus IS the Son of God. Still.
 

Stumpmaster

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2009
2,050
1,389
113
69
Hamilton, New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
So except for the time element, there is no difference between the two covenants. The covenant partners are the same, the covenant objective is the same, and the covenant conditions are the same. The old Covenant and the new Covenant are the same, it was by faith and denying self and trusting in God, and we are transformed. We see it here.
Hi Hobie. If we were to meet in real time and were able to sit down with a cup of tea or some other refreshment I would raise one big objection to your assertion that the Old and New Covenants are the same. That objection would be that the Bible states otherwise. We learn much about the testaments or covenants in the epistle to Hebrews, and the one thing in particular that stands out is that the New Covenant is BETTER than the Old Covenant. In the New there is a better hope, better promises, and a better sacrifice than the Old Covenant.

I pray that you will meditate on the 4 passages below and revise your position regarding the excellence of the New Covenant which is definitely different from the Old, being better in so many ways.
Heb 7:19-22
(19) For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
(20) And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
(21) (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
(22) By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Heb 8:6-7

(6) But now has he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
(7) For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 9:18-23

(18) Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
(19) For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
(20) Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God has enjoined unto you.(21) Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
(22) And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
(23) It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 12:22-24
(22) But you are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
(23) To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
(24) And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaks better things than that of Abel.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mailmandan

Hobie

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2009
2,423
930
113
South Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Hi Hobie. If we were to meet in real time and were able to sit down with a cup of tea or some other refreshment I would raise one big objection to your assertion that the Old and New Covenants are the same. That objection would be that the Bible states otherwise. We learn much about the testaments or covenants in the epistle to Hebrews, and the one thing in particular that stands out is that the New Covenant is BETTER than the Old Covenant. In the New there is a better hope, better promises, and a better sacrifice than the Old Covenant.

I pray that you will meditate on the 4 passages below and revise your position regarding the excellence of the New Covenant which is definitely different from the Old, being better in so many ways.
Heb 7:19-22
(19) For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
(20) And inasmuch as not without an oath he was made priest:
(21) (For those priests were made without an oath; but this with an oath by him that said unto him, The Lord sware and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec:)
(22) By so much was Jesus made a surety of a better testament.
Heb 8:6-7

(6) But now has he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
(7) For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
Heb 9:18-23

(18) Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.
(19) For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,
(20) Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God has enjoined unto you.(21) Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.
(22) And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.
(23) It was therefore necessary that the patterns of things in the heavens should be purified with these; but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these.
Heb 12:22-24
(22) But you are come unto mount Sion, and unto the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to an innumerable company of angels,
(23) To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect,
(24) And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaks better things than that of Abel.
Its like the speeding law, the local roads can be set at 30 while out on the interstate it can be 70 or more, but it is based on the same law and issue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Joseph77

Stumpmaster

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2009
2,050
1,389
113
69
Hamilton, New Zealand
Faith
Christian
Country
New Zealand
Its like the speeding law, the local roads can be set at 30 while out on the interstate it can be 70 or more, but it is based on the same law and issue.
Given that the law was for a time and it had weaknesses it is no wonder the writer to the Hebrews makes it clear that the New Covenant is better than the Old...Three more verses

Heb 10:1
(1) For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Heb 10:19-22

(19) Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
(20) By a new and living way, which he has consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
(21) And having an high priest over the house of God;
(22) Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Heb 11:39-40
(39) And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
(40) God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
 
  • Like
Reactions: mailmandan

Hobie

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2009
2,423
930
113
South Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Given that the law was for a time and it had weaknesses it is no wonder the writer to the Hebrews makes it clear that the New Covenant is better than the Old...Three more verses

Heb 10:1
(1) For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.

Heb 10:19-22

(19) Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
(20) By a new and living way, which he has consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
(21) And having an high priest over the house of God;
(22) Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.

Heb 11:39-40
(39) And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
(40) God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
So are you free to have adultery and steal and murder, I don't think so.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Joseph77

Hobie

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2009
2,423
930
113
South Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Here is a good explanation..."Many assume that, because Jesus Christ instituted the New Covenant, God's laws are thereby made obsolete. They lean on this argument to ignore His commandments. But what does Jesus Himself say?....

“Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill [actually ‘fill to the full,’ meaning fully explain or fully express]. For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away [and they clearly haven’t passed away], one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled.

“Whoever therefore breaks one of the least of these commandments, and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever does and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven” (Matthew 5:17-19)....

Notice how Hebrews 10:16-17 summarizes the New Covenant: “ ‘This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.’ Then He adds, ‘Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.’” This is perfectly consistent with Christ’s words. God’s laws aren’t annulled under the New Covenant; they are written into our hearts and minds so we might obey Him better.

A new covenant wasn’t needed because the laws included in the Old Covenant were inadequate or faulty. Rather, the New Covenant was needed because, as Hebrews 8:8 tells us, “God found fault with the people . . .” ...The fault was in the nature of the people themselves (Hebrews 8:7-9)—the fact that human beings are hostile to God’s laws rather than spiritually minded and willing to obey (see Romans 8:5-8).

What people need to have changed is their heart, not the laws that define sin—"
God's Law and the New Covenant
 

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,394
31,447
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States

Notice how Hebrews 10:16-17 summarizes the New Covenant: “ ‘This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them.’ Then He adds, ‘Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.’” This is perfectly consistent with Christ’s words. God’s laws aren’t annulled under the New Covenant; they are written into our hearts and minds so we might obey Him better.

A new covenant wasn’t needed because the laws included in the Old Covenant were inadequate or faulty. Rather, the New Covenant was needed because, as Hebrews 8:8 tells us, “God found fault with the people . . .” ...The fault was in the nature of the people themselves (Hebrews 8:7-9)—the fact that human beings are hostile to God’s laws rather than spiritually minded and willing to obey (see Romans 8:5-8).

What people need to have changed is their heart, not the laws that define sin—"

And the new heart when led by the Holy Spirit will always do things God's Way rather than man's way. Man's problem often today is that when he really has received the Holy Spirit... instead of learning to follow the lead of the Spirit, he learns to regularly quench the Spirit.

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19
 
  • Like
Reactions: Helen

Hobie

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2009
2,423
930
113
South Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And the new heart when led by the Holy Spirit will always do things God's Way rather than man's way. Man's problem often today is that when he really has received the Holy Spirit... instead of learning to follow the lead of the Spirit, he learns to regularly quench the Spirit.

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19
So you have to ask, does the Holy Spirit speak to us or give us another gospel than that of the Son or Father, no, it is the same and so is the law from God.
 

mailmandan

Well-Known Member
Feb 24, 2020
4,444
4,728
113
The Midwest
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So you have to ask, does the Holy Spirit speak to us or give us another gospel than that of the Son or Father, no, it is the same and so is the law from God.
What do YOU believe the gospel IS and what do YOU believe it means to "believe the gospel?" (Romans 1:16) Also, do you believe that the new covenant is just the old covenant repackaged? Still under the law of Moses?
 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
So except for the time element, there is no difference between the two covenants.
Actually there is a huge difference.

1. It is the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ -- God's Son -- which was shed for our redemption to usher in the New Covenant, and to ratify it.

2. Because Christ died, rose again, ascended to Heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God, the Holy Spirit was poured out upon humanity in order to effect the New Birth and transform the New Creature.

3. In the Old Covenant the Law (the Ten Commandments) was written on tablets of stone. In the New Covenant they are written on hearts and minds by the Spirit.
 

Enoch111

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2018
17,688
15,996
113
Alberta
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Many assume that, because Jesus Christ instituted the New Covenant, God's laws are thereby made obsolete.
Actually some laws are indeed made obsolete, while the Ten Commandments are incorporated into the Law of Christ (the Law of Love).

All laws pertaining to the tabernacle and temple, the Levitical priesthood, the various animal sacrifices, the feasts, festivals, and holy days, the dietary restrictions, and the ceremonial observances are literally abolished. That is the term used by the Holy Spirit.

The Holy Spirit compares the Old Covenant to Hagar (bondage) and the New Covenant to Sarah (liberty). So you have a very serious misunderstanding, and need to revise your beliefs accordingly.

GALATIANS 4
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is [H]Agar.
25 For this [H]Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is,
and is in bondage with her children.
26
But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.
27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.
28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.
29 But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him
that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now.
30 Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman.
31
So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
 
Last edited:

amadeus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2008
22,394
31,447
113
80
Oklahoma
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So you have to ask, does the Holy Spirit speak to us or give us another gospel than that of the Son or Father, no, it is the same and so is the law from God.
I would say that the Holy Spirit. when allowed to work in us, brings to Life in a man that which the man has consumed that is of God; He purges that which we have consumed which is not of God. When we consume proper food such as what we read in Scripture... this is what will be quickened [brought to Life] by the Holy Spirit. When we listen to lies the Holy Spirit will then purge them from us. When quenched the Holy Spirit in us is limited. We thus limit God! This is what they frequently did in the OT and now we see it occurring frequently as well.

"Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel." Psalm 78:41

And the Apostle Paul warns us:

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19
 
  • Like
Reactions: mjrhealth

mjrhealth

Well-Known Member
Mar 15, 2009
11,810
4,090
113
Australia
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
So are you free to have adultery and steal and murder, I don't think so.
Before the law came with Moses, we where nor free to steal or murder, Love was always the best way, all the Law did, was bring in "condemnation", punishment for you sin. If God never brought the "law" in, Jesus could not be condemned and would not have being put on that cross and we would have no salvation, The law has served it purpose, now as it is supposed to be, it is the Holy Spirit that convicts " unbelievers" of there sin. The only way has always being Love, some thng man just cant seem to grasp or want. I suppose because teh "law" is all about you and your performance, "Love is all about God and Christ.
 

Joseph77

Well-Known Member
Apr 1, 2020
5,673
1,325
113
Tulsa, OK
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
So are you free to have adultery and steal and murder, I don't think so.
Oh, yes. Look around.... It's not right, it's not good, but it is so all around, as it was in sodom and gomorrah... vexing daily... but people freely engage in sin, and even pat one another on the back encouraging sin, lawless ones, transgressors.... instead of turning to the Creator, instead of Godly sorrow leading to repentance.
 

Hobie

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2009
2,423
930
113
South Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Before the law came with Moses, we where nor free to steal or murder, Love was always the best way, all the Law did, was bring in "condemnation", punishment for you sin. If God never brought the "law" in, Jesus could not be condemned and would not have being put on that cross and we would have no salvation, The law has served it purpose, now as it is supposed to be, it is the Holy Spirit that convicts " unbelievers" of there sin. The only way has always being Love, some thng man just cant seem to grasp or want. I suppose because teh "law" is all about you and your performance, "Love is all about God and Christ.
Why, because the Law was there from the beginning. Look at what God said to Cain...

Genesis 4:6-8 King James Version (KJV)
6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dcopymope

Hobie

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2009
2,423
930
113
South Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
And what is sin...
1 John 3:4 King James Version (KJV)
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
 

Hobie

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2009
2,423
930
113
South Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Oh, yes. Look around.... It's not right, it's not good, but it is so all around, as it was in sodom and gomorrah... vexing daily... but people freely engage in sin, and even pat one another on the back encouraging sin, lawless ones, transgressors.... instead of turning to the Creator, instead of Godly sorrow leading to repentance.
Yes...
2 Chronicles 7:13-14 King James Version (KJV)
13 If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people;
14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Joseph77

Joseph77

Well-Known Member
Apr 1, 2020
5,673
1,325
113
Tulsa, OK
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Why, because the Law was there from the beginning. Look at what God said to Cain...

Genesis 4:6-8 King James Version (KJV)
6 And the Lord said unto Cain, Why art thou wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen?
7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.
8 And Cain talked with Abel his brother: and it came to pass, when they were in the field, that Cain rose up against Abel his brother, and slew him.
No. TORAH, The Law, God's Instructions, God's Words, were given later.

There was death because of sin, but not because of TORAH, not because of The Law; not yet anyway.
 

Hobie

Well-Known Member
Jun 11, 2009
2,423
930
113
South Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
No. TORAH, The Law, God's Instructions, God's Words, were given later.

There was death because of sin, but not because of TORAH, not because of The Law; not yet anyway.
You forget God walked in the Garden of Eden, and He explained it and the reason for the Tree of knowledge of good and evil, which is the wages of sin, death.......

Genesis 2:16-17 King James Version (KJV)
16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
 
Last edited: