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Featured The One True Almighty God IS Father, Son and Holy Spirit=The One True Almighty God!!

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by GISMYS_7, Jul 7, 2019.

  1. GISMYS_7

    GISMYS_7 Well-Known Member

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    “And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.” Genesis 1:28 (KJV)
    “For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one.” 1 John 5:7,8 (KJV)
    “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:” Colossians 2:8-10
    “Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works’ sake.” John 14:9-11 (KJV)
    “And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.” 1 Timothy 3:16 (KJV) Who is Jesus Christ? He is the invisible God, in all His massively-complex awesomeness, perfectly distilled in human form. If you have Jesus, you have the Father and you have the Holy Spirit all in one beautiful package.
     
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  2. atpollard

    atpollard Active Member

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    Can’t argue with that.
    Yay JESUS!
     
  3. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    Mmmmm according to my Bible Jesus is the Son of God. Who is that God He is the Son of?
     
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  4. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Brakelite, Jesus is BOTH God and the only begotten Son of God the Father. Have you failed to see the Scriptures which call Him God? Or have you decided to accept the heresies of the Jehovah's Witnesses (and other cultists) in denying that He is God?

    Here is the clearest and best evidence of what I am saying:

    JOHN 1
    1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God [the Son].
    2 The same was in the beginning with God [the Father].
    3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
    4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

    "The Word" is one of the names of the Lord Jesus Christ, and confirmed in Revelation 19:13: His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

    Had the JWs not tampered with the Scripture in verse 1 and inserted "a god" in place of "God" (New World Translation), they would have had no option except to abandon their foolish doctrine.

    Now there are dozens of Scriptures IN YOUR BIBLE which stand behind the deity of Christ and the Holy Trinity, but the naysayers refuse to bow down and worship Him as God.
     
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  5. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    I have absolutely no issues with Christ's divinity. Except He be equal in authority and power to His Father, then the atonement fails. We would then have only a human sacrifice. Now, to the question I asked, and you answered. Yes, Jesus is the Son of the Father. The Son of God. I am sure you agree with me this far yes?
    So how do you reconcile this...
    KJV John 17
    3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
     
  6. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    GINOLJC, to all.
    that's 2 Gods you have there. Father is only a title that signify, "FIRST", and in Flesh, shared as the Son, it Signify "LAST" as in Adam, who is "flesh", the Last Adam. supportive scripture, Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD,(God, as in John 1:1), the first, (the Father), and with (as in John 1:1), the last; I am he". just as John 1:1 states the "Word/Son", the Last, was "WITH" God/Father, the First, is God. BINGO.

    the title Father means "FIRST", and the title Son means "Last". same one Person "diversified/shared" .

    PICJAG.
     
  7. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Enoch111 pointed out that the "Son" is God, see above who is the Word. Good. now this, Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth". Good so far. now this,
    Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

    the person who "made all things" was ALONE, and BY HIMSELF was God, whom you say is God. but the question beggs, "God was alone, and by himself", no one else was there with him. so that means that when one say the "Son" is God, and he's separate and distinct, then he is saying that there is two God, for the LORD, who is God said that he was "ALONE, and BY HIMSELF.

    now you have a problem in explaining how was the Son, according to John 1:3 who made all things, as God" and it was "God who made all things, and was by himself, and was alone", meaning no other ... "PERSON".

    PICJAG.
     
  8. OzSpen

    OzSpen Well-Known Member

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    Don't you believe in the incarnation, the birth of Jesus, when the eternal Son took on a body as the God-man?

    Are you questioning the doctrine of the Trinity, one God in 3 persons? Is this your challenge to us?
     
  9. OzSpen

    OzSpen Well-Known Member

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    While there is one God, the Father is a separate person from the person of the Son and the person of the Holy Spirit.
     
  10. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    if this is true, then who made "all things" the Son or the Father?

    Picjag.
     
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  11. OzSpen

    OzSpen Well-Known Member

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    101G,

    Your teaching that God the Father is only a title that signifies FIRST is not what Scripture teaches.

    The Father is a person who has attributes of personhood:
    • Intellect: According to Matt 6:32, 'For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them' (NIV);
    • Emotional attribute to feel: Gen 6:6 (NIV), 'The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled'.
    • The will; the Father has power to choose See Matt 6:9-10 (NIV), 'Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven. Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name, your kingdom come, your will be done, on earth as it is in heaven'.
    • The ability to communicate: Matt 11:25, 'At that time Jesus said, ‘I praise you, Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because you have hidden these things from the wise and learned, and revealed them to little children'.
    • Teach: "Jesus answered, ‘My teaching is not my own. It comes from the one who sent me. Anyone who chooses to do the will of God will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own'" (with help from Norman Geisler 2003. Systematic Theology, vol 2, p.287)
    We can pursue similar attributes of personhood for the Son and the Holy Spirit.
    So God the Father has the attributes of being a person in addition to being deity. See: Is the Trinity taught in the Bible?

    Oz
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  12. atpollard

    atpollard Active Member

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    I agree. However his statement need not be read as denying that.

    What does the expression
    mean to you?

    I have Jesus (because the Father foreknew me and DREW me to the Son), and I am, therefore, IN CHRIST.
    I have the Holy Spirit (because I have been SEALED with the Holy Spirit).
    I have the Father (because He foreknew me), and I am a child of God (by His will).
    So the statement ...
    ... rings true for me. I agree that Jesus is not that one beautiful package that contains "Father, Son and Spirit" in one human body, but Jesus is the gate to SALVATION, and SALVATION is the one beautiful package that contains the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.
     
  13. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    well good let's see these attributes of being a person. Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth". it didn't say Father nor Son, right. but this do, Isaiah 44:24 "Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself". is this not the one whom you calls FATHER? well lets see if this is correct,

    John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

    John 1:2 "The same was in the beginning with God.

    John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

    well John clearly say it was God whom you call the Son who "made all things". and Isaiah said it was God whom you calls the Father who "made all things". is this the SAME person Oz? if not then you have two separate and distinct GODS... (smile).



    your answer please.



    PICJAG.
     
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  14. OzSpen

    OzSpen Well-Known Member

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    atp,

    I have difficulties with some of the statements in this thread as they relate to orthodox biblical teaching on the Trinity.

    To say that "If you have Jesus, you have the Father and you have the Holy Spirit all in one beautiful package" is not the litmus text for the Trinity. Instead, if I have the the Lord God, the one true God, I have God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. All three of these persons
    Please deal with the evidence I provided and not go off into the tangent you want to deal with. This is not a conversation.
     
  15. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    You have a Modalist here who cannot abandon his false concepts.
     
  16. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    This statement is not meant to deny that Jesus is God, but to assert that God the Father is the only true God, as opposed to all the false gods in pagan religions. As Jesus said, no man can come to the Father except through Him, and that is what this is about. To know God is to know the triune Godhead -- Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. And unless a person believes this, he cannot claim to know the true God (see Mt 28:19).
     
  17. GISMYS_7

    GISMYS_7 Well-Known Member

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    God does not force anyone to believe and accept Him, God draws all but many choose to reject God's love,mercy, forgiveness!!
    Whosoever=All= Anyone=Everyone=the World!!
    John 3:14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
    John 3:15 That ""whosoever"" believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
    John 3:16 For God so loved the ""world"", that he gave his only begotten Son, that ""whosoever"" believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
    John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the ""world"" through him might be saved.
     
  18. APAK

    APAK Well-Known Member

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    Enoch....I just had to respond to your post here because I believe your standards are slipping a bit, as a defender of the realm of the Triune god. And I'm not trying to defend @brakelite either, as we ourselves also have some 'smaller' issues that do not deter our common interests, from my perspective anyway.

    I am just pointing some places you might want to patch up a bit else you leave yourself open to all types of questions, even as a die-hard Trinitarian as yourself.

    This verse of John 17:3 is intended to let the reader understand that Jesus is saying he has a God, the true God, his Father, YHWH. And by inference, he is actually saying he is not the true God and of course not his own Father. That would be silly. He is praying to his God.

    This verse has no implication in contrasting God, our Father with false gods. That is a stretch.

    And yes, in order to know Jesus' God who is also our God, the Father, we must first know or be in Christ first. And again this also is not what this verse is about at all. There are places in scripture that speaks to this necessary spiritual condition for a believer.

    Then you take off further 'into space' with the known forged verse of Matt 28:19b with the identification of the Triune god embedded in it. And even if this expression was genuine in this verse, it does nothing to further the Trinity cause that God has three personas involved in the application of spiritual baptism.

    So to know God is to know that Jesus is not his and our one true God. Jesus is the Son of God indeed. And Jesus was well aware of this fact and he prayed to his true God, his Father, to glorify him as promised after his death on the cross.

    Bless you,

    APAK
     
  19. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    1. It is true that Jesus prayed to God the Father while He was on earth in His humility, humiliation, and total subjection to the Father. But your supposed inference is false. This was not the time and place for Him to be establishing His deity. Jesus was presenting us with the truth that (1) the one true God is none other than the LORD God Almighty -- the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob and (2) no man can come to God except through Him (Jesus Christ) "whom thou hast sent".

    2. But it was in Exodus 3 that He showed us that He Himself is ALSO the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and that He is the "I AM" (which He repeated to the Jews in the NT). So there was a time and place for each truth to be presented. Now, do you believe that He is indeed the "I AM" or will you continue to quibble?
    3. Who says that this verse is a forgery? THAT IS TOTAL NONSENSE.

    Out of thousands of manuscripts , there is no Greek text which does NOT have this verse, and both the Textus Receptus and the Critical Texts have the identical verse. If anything, the Critical Texts would have omitted this verse, but that is not the case. There are some so-called *scholars* who have tried to attack this verse, but the Didache and Justin Martyr (both from the 2nd century) confirm its authenticity. So would you rather believe the truth, or the lies?

    CRITICAL TEXT

    Westcott and Hort / [NA27 variants]
    πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη, βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος,


    TEXTUS RECEPTUS
    Stephanus Textus Receptus 1550
    πορευθέντες οὖν μαθητεύσατε πάντα τὰ ἔθνη βαπτίζοντες αὐτοὺς εἰς τὸ ὄνομα τοῦ πατρὸς καὶ τοῦ υἱοῦ καὶ τοῦ ἁγίου πνεύματος


    Matthew Henry's Commentary
    But, 3. It is into the name (eis to onoma) of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; this was intended as the summary of the first principles of the Christian religion, and of the new covenant, and according to it the ancient creeds were drawn up.

    By our being baptized, we solemnly profess, (1.) Our assent to the scripture-revelation concerning God, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. We confess our belief that there is a God, that there is but one God, that in the Godhead there is a Father that begets, a Son that is begotten, and a Holy Spirit of both. We are baptized, not into the names, but into the name, of Father, Son, and Spirit, which plainly intimates that these three are one, and their name one.

    The distinct mentioning of the three persons in the Trinity, both in the Christian baptism here, and in the Christian blessing (2 Co. 13:14), as it is a full proof of the doctrine of the Trinity, so it has done much towards preserving it pure and entire through all ages of the church; for nothing is more great and awful in Christian assemblies than these two.

    (2.) Our consent to a covenant-relation to God, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. Baptism is a sacrament, that is, it is an oath; super sacramentum dicere, is to say upon oath. It is an oath of abjuration, by which we renounce the world and the flesh, as rivals with God for the throne in our hearts; and an oath of allegiance, by which we resign and give up ourselves to God, to be his, our own selves, our whole selves, body, soul, and spirit, to be governed by his will, and made happy in his favour; we become his men, so the form of homage in our law runs. Therefore baptism is applied to the person, as livery and seisin is given of the premises, because it is the person that is dedicated to God.

    [1.] It is into the name of the Father, believing him to be the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ (for that is principally intended here), by eternal generation, and our Father, as our Creator, Preserver, and Benefactor, to whom therefore we resign ourselves, as our absolute owner and proprietor, to actuate us, and dispose of us; as our supreme rector and governor, to rule us, as free agents, by his law; and as our chief good, and highest end.

    [2.] It is into the name of the Son, the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, and correlate to the Father. Baptism was in a particular manner administered in the name of the Lord Jesus, Acts 8:16; 19:5. In baptism we assent, as Peter did, Thou art Christ, the Son of the living God (ch. 16:16), and consent, as Thomas did, My Lord, and my God, Jn. 20:28. We take Christ to be our Prophet, Priest, and King, and give up ourselves to be taught, and saved, and ruled, by him.

    [3.] It is into the name of the Holy Ghost. Believing the Godhead of the Holy Spirit, and his agency in carrying on our redemption, we give up ourselves to his conduct and operation, as our sanctifier, teacher, guide, and comforter.
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2019
  20. APAK

    APAK Well-Known Member

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    I would seriously double check your work Enoch, and understand what context is all about when reading and using scripture to support your cause. And especially the last part of your post that seems to trouble you the most.

    Matt 28:19b is a forgery! One day you might realize it.

    Where do you think I got this information from anyway, beside from the most important place, the Spirit, over many years of nudging me? There are tomes of info on it if you dare to check it out, without bias. And yes, it might help if you get this info from a non-Trinitarian source; else your research shall be definitely skewed and biased and you will learn nothing new. Your so called 'critical text' and the TR are not accurate. Please do not rely on them for all your truth. They are not the earliest sources Enoch....for another subject..

    And as I said in my last post, even if Matt 28:19b was actually true as it is recorded in over 90 percent of the English Bible translations, inserting YHWH's own body or composition, his own Spirit, and in his role as the Father of Jesus as his Son into this statement for the method of baptism does not reinforce any Triune God, now does it? There is no concept of co-equality as a tri(unioned)god in this text. The best it does is to emphasize that in most important matter of baptism, the Father who is YHWH, the Son who is Jesus, and YHWH's own Spirit, envelopes his Son and any believer that is bathed in the the gift and Spirit of the only one God, the Father, sent to us in our hearts, as the spirit of Truth, period!

    So, therefore, Matt 28:19b as it is commonly written, is useless as a pillar of support for the Trinity cause. And you are not the only one that does this of course, there are armies of Trinitarian foot soldiers that think and belief as you do and believe it is an Ace in hand. I see it as a desperate attempt to fling a shoe at me and those that believe differently, when I, and others are still advancing forward with the truth.....it has no effect..truly it is brushed aside...

    Bless you,

    APAK
     
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