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The Only Problem With The Trinity

Discussion in 'Unorthodox Doctrine Forum' started by MatthewG, May 20, 2021.

  1. Cooper

    Cooper Well-Known Member

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    There is One God and Father above all. God above All. I feel the Word "Godhead" is quite important, in describing the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Don't you?
    Ephesians 4:4-7.
    .
     
  2. MatthewG

    MatthewG Well-Known Member

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    What does Godhead mean?

    God, God's Spirit, God's Word.
    Father, Holy Spirit, Son of God.

    Okay, there are the three that make up the realities of heaven all that have one purpose which was bring forth Salvation for all of mankind because of Adam and the sin that had befell into the world itself. That anyone who has faith in the Lord Jesus Christ may be set free of the bondage of death, and sin. (Romans 8:2)

    1 John 5:6-10

    Now what do you do with this from here @Cooper?

    To me Jesus Christ is the King of Kings, the Lord of Lords. (Jesus is ultimately seen as the Lord God Almighty - to me the fulness of the Father with-in the Son.)

    Do you believe that too?
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2021
  3. Cooper

    Cooper Well-Known Member

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    So why did you belittle the word "Godhead" when it accurately describes the One God above all others? Worse still why did you say it to someone who is in opposition to the Lord of Lords and King of Kings.
    You said:
    "No matter what a person believes about this trinity - that is a word and it considered not to be in the context of the bible or ever used in the old testament, or the New Testament."
    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2021
  4. MatthewG

    MatthewG Well-Known Member

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    Hello Cooper,

    What do you mean? How have I really belittled the word Godhead.

    Trinity is not in the bible but Godhead is.

    Have just described what the Godhead is.

    ??? Am not here to force people what they need to believe; however would suggest people to think for themselves, and not believe everything a person may say, even myself... Am a human being who has faith in God and Jesus Christ trying to live life, by the spirit worshiping God in spirit and truth, but am not a perfect human being make mistakes and what not and do not have every knowledge that is with-in the bible and probably never will.

    The trinity like before is a great mystery it is known as no one can really understand it or whatever: Same thing would be for the Godhead, no one would be able to understand that other than the realities that make of heaven is God, God's Spirit, God's Word: Father, God's Spirit, Son of God/Son of Man Jesus Christ the Lord. Ultimately in the end Jesus seen as the Lord God Almighty.

    With love in Christ,
    Matthew G.
     
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  5. MatthewG

    MatthewG Well-Known Member

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    What is the point in a person trying to explain something they do not understand? When it leads to pointing fingers and saying your not a Christian because you do not believe this way that I believe.

    Have tired to explain it to my best ability when it comes to God, God's Spirit, God's Word, Father, God's Spirit, The Son of God/ Son of Man/ Jesus Christ the Lord using in what the bible itself explains about them.


    Found in Post 219: The Only Problem With The Trinity
     
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  6. Cooper

    Cooper Well-Known Member

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    Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is everywhere in the context of scripture. That is one triune God is it not?
    .
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2021
  7. MatthewG

    MatthewG Well-Known Member

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    If you believe that having faith in the trinity is what makes a person saved, would like to tell you sir that that is not what saves a human being.

    What does save a person to God is by and through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, who, came, died, buried and was risen again...

    You mentioned: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; Godhead ~ those are the three who make up the realities of Heaven. They all are one in purpose. 1 John 5:6-10.

    God, through the Lord Jesus Christ by the spirit with-in because of faith - works love by the spirit, when abiding in Christ the Vine. Is how God works with those who are believers in Christ.

    Thank you for your conversation @Cooper,
    With love in Christ,
    Matthew G.

    I have no problem with people if they believe the trinity; I may not agree with those who force other people that they must believe this and that about the trinity however because do not believe force is a good thing to do or place upon any person who is or is not a believer.

    Human beings should think for themselves, I believe.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2021
  8. Cooper

    Cooper Well-Known Member

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    Salvation is through the second person of the Trinity, the one who the antitrinitarians deny, but when they deny God's plan of salvation, they do it at their peril and their own loss.
    .
     
  9. MatthewG

    MatthewG Well-Known Member

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    Okay cool brother. If that is something you believe that is something you believe, no hate or judgement. You do what, is lead for you to do by the spirit of Christ with-in you, in love my friend.

    :)

    Romans 3:22-26 NLT
    We are made right with God by placing our faith in Jesus Christ. And this is true for everyone who believes, no matter who we are. For everyone has sinned; we all fall short of God’s glorious standard. Yet God, in his grace, freely makes us right in his sight. He did this through Christ Jesus when he freed us from the penalty for our sins. For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he makes sinners right in his sight when they believe in Jesus.
     
  10. Abaxvahl

    Abaxvahl Active Member

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    The doctrine of the Trinity is not found anywhere in paganism, this is a blatant lie. Show me where any pagan spoke of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, of the Father's Monarchy, of the Eternal Generation of the Son, of the Procession of the Holy Spirit from the Father through the Son. Where did they ever define the immanent and economic Trinity, or the perichoresis? Who revealed to them the distinction between ousia and hypostasis? You will find that it is impossible to find it anywhere but in those who follow God revealed in Christ for the doctrine of the Trinity is utterly unique, and came from God, and no one can know it outside of God's revelation.

    You have uttered a lie and will never be able to defend it from now until your death or even in the Final Judgment where your lie will be denounced by the natural Son of God before all creation.

    And since "what is claimed without evidence may be dismissed without evidence" and I already know in advance through God that you will have no evidence, I will dismiss this blasphemous claim.
     
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  11. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    scripture only has one Lord one faith one baptism eph 4:5
    One new covenant church Jn 10:16
    Christ is king but he does not administer his own kingdom Isa 22/21-22 matt 16:18 Acts 1 & 2 & 15 etc peter is in charge of the church leads the church and feeds his lambs Jn 21:17
    Jesus prays for peter Lk 22:32
    Unity of Christ and peter Jn 17:27
    Christ and his church are one, acts 9;4 the church does what Christ did acts 1 & 2 the church has unity with christ Jn 15:1-5 the church is subject to christ eph 5:24
     
  12. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    nowhere does the Bible say that the rule of faith for Christians is the “Bible alone”!

    the rule of faith for Christ according to scripture is Christ! Eph 4:21

    thru his apostles acts 2:42 matt 28:19
    Lk 1:4

    Nowhere does it say nor did Christ say all the truth of the Christian faith are contained in the “Bible alone”

    Especially not you’re idea of the quote bible only 66 books with missing chapters like dan 13 & 14
     
  13. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    nowhere does the Bible say that the rule of faith for Christians is the “Bible alone”!

    the rule of faith for Christ according to scripture is Christ! Eph 4:21

    thru his apostles acts 2:42 matt 28:19
    Lk 1:4

    Nowhere does it say nor did Christ say all the truth of the Christian faith are contained in the “Bible alone”

    Especially not you’re idea of the quote bible only 66 books with missing chapters like dan 13 & 14
     
  14. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    Keys of authority! And power to bind and loose! Matt 16:18 and Matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Isa 22:21-22

    Moral authority:
    (Teaching)
    Necessity of being taught by Christ:
    Two edge sword: defining truth and condemning errors, and Interpreting scripture.

    Jurisdictional authority:
    (Governing / administering)
    Necessity of Peter and the apostles and their successors to govern the holy church.

    Spiritual authority:
    (Life of Grace)
    Sanctifying thru the mass and Sacraments

    The apostles teaching is Christ’s teaching, Christ and His church are one! Acts 9:4

    Christian rule of faith is not the Bible alone! But the doctrine of the apostles! Acts 2:42

    Jesus Christ continues HIS ministry in His new covenant church thru Peter, the apostles, and their successors with the same mission, power, and authority!
    Mt 16:18 Mt 28:19 Acts 1:17 acts 8:31 & 35 Lk 10:16 Jn 8:32 Jn 13:20 Jn 15:5 Jn 16:13 Jn 20:21-22 eph 2:20

    Lk 10:16
    He who hears you hears me...

    John 13:20
    Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.

    Only the church has authority from Christ to define the truth and teach!
    Matt 16:18 matt 18:18 matt 28:19 Jn 20:21-23 Jn 8:32 Jn 16:13

    Successors of Jesus Christ!

    Jesus already prepares His apostles to continue His mission with His power (binding and loosing) and with His authority (keys) matt 16:18 matt 18:18

    John 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

    John 3:22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

    John 4:1 when therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John...
    Jn 4:2 Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples

    Here we see Jesus delegating to His successors, Peter and the apostles!

    Jn 15:5 apart from me you can do nothing

    There can be no unity of the spirit without obedience to the faith! Rom 1:5 eph 4:3

    Matt 28 I am with you (the apostles)

    The papacy based on Matt 16:18 and Isa 22:21-22

    Matt 16:18-19
    18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

    19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

    Isa 22:21-22
    21 And I will clothe him with thy robe, and strengthen him with thy girdle, and I will commit thy government into his hand: and he shall be a father to the inhabitants of Jerusalem, and to the house of Judah.

    22 And the key of the house of David will I lay upon his shoulder; so he shall open, and none shall shut; and he shall shut, and none shall open.

    Behold I am with you (the successors or the apostles until the end of the age, so the successors must remain until the end of the age) matt 28:19

    (None of the so called reformers were apostles) (no man has authority to start a church)


    Successors of Moses!

    Matt 23 why does Jesus say to obey the successors of Moses?

    The successors of Moses sit in the chair of Moses having the authority of the keys and the power to bind and loose Matt 23 and Jesus commanded them to be obeyed! Then the kingdom was taken from them matt 21:43 and given to Peter, Matt 16:18 the apostles, Matt 18:18 and their successors with the authority of the keys and the power to bind and lose!

    Jesus said to obey the authority of the successors of Moses mt 23 authority of the keys and power to bind and loose and this power and authority was taken from them matt and given by Christ to Peter, the apostles and their successors, mt 16:18 18:18 this same authority and power must be obeyed!

    mt 28:18-20 all authority is given to Peter, the apostles, and their successors requiring obedience, rom 1:5 obedience to the faith!
    And Jesus say to Peter, the apostles, and their successors: behold I am with you even until the end of the world!!!
    So the apostles have to remain until the end! Revelation 5:10
    And hast made us unto our God kings and Priests: and we shall reign on the earth. Reign with kingdom authority (keys) power (bind loose) matt 16:18
    The successors of Peter and the apostles have a valid jurisdictional authority (keys) and power (bind and loose) by Jesus Christ!

    Lk 10:16
    He who hears you hears me...

    John 13:20
    Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.


    apostolic succession!

    explicit and implicit in scripture

    Judas was an apostle
    Acts 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry.

    acts 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take.

    Matthias succeeded him as apostle

    acts 1: 26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

    now if it applies to judas how much more to Peter and the other apostles

    Matt 28:19-20
    Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

    20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

    Jesus is with His church and His apostles until the end! So the apostles must remain until the end governing the church administering the kingdom

    Mt 16:18 Peter received the keys of the kingdom: (jurisdictional authority of the universal church) and the power to bind and loose:
     
  15. Wrangler

    Wrangler Well-Known Member

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    Subverting Christ's authority again? Most Protestants I know take the word of God over councils of men.
     
  16. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    there is only one church Jn 10:16 founded by Christ on Peter and the apostles Isa 22 21:22 Matt 16:18 18:18
    This church and kingdom of Christ Lk 1:32-33 conquered the Roman Empire dan 2:44 Isa 2:2 micha 4:1
     
  17. theefaith

    theefaith Well-Known Member

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    so tell me what is the word of God?
    You’re Bible 66 books with missing books and chapters or the Bible approved by the authority of Christ thru his apostles?

    why accept the “tradition of men” and “mere human tradition” of those under king James?

    not tradition of men but tradition of Christ thru his church by the apostles

    we must be taught!
    Faith comes by hearing!
     
  18. Aunty Jane

    Aunty Jane Active Member

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    Well, then I am happy that Jesus is my judge and not you.....o_O

    Those whom Christ describes at the judgment (Matthew 7:21-23) are absolutely shocked at his rejection because they honestly think that their "Christianity" is genuine.....they appeal, citing all the things they did "in his name" and yet what is his response? "I NEVER KNEW YOU, GET AWAY FROM ME YOU WORKERS OF LAWLESSNESS". Wow! imagine being on the receiving end of that, when you expected the opposite?

    As Paul said...."So let the one who thinks he is standing beware that he does not fall." ( 1 Corinthians 10:12)
    It ain't over till it's over....."as ye judge, so shall ye be judged"....be careful.
     
  19. Abaxvahl

    Abaxvahl Active Member

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    I notice that you in fact provided no evidence for your blasphemous claim in all of that. Not surprised.
     
  20. Aunty Jane

    Aunty Jane Active Member

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    Wow…have you ever researched the history of Roman Catholicism? Could you possibly recognize why Christ has never set foot in it? The corruption, exploitation, bloodshed, torture and false confessions of the Inquisition are enough blood to stain their entire history. (Isaiah 1:15)
    Conversion at the point of a sword was never how Jesus gained his disciples…..seriously how could you think that Jesus could ever condone or forgive such dreadful conduct in his name?

    Peter was never the head of the church….he was an apostle who was given an assignment, which did not elevate him above his fellow apostles. The Kingdom of God in heaven has all 12 apostles as its foundations. (Revelation 21:14)

    Out of the 12 apostles, who wrote books of the Bible? Matthew, John and Peter…just three.
    Where is it said that the apostles had anything to teach other than what Christ instructed them to?
    Even Paul did not teach anything different to what Jesus taught him. He was not educated by the other apostles but gained his training directly from the resurrected Jesus Christ.

    None of the apostles would ever have deviated from God’s truth in such a blasphemous way…..but Jesus warned that a counterfeit form of Christianity would be sown by the devil, and that we would only have to look at any Christian’s conduct to prove their claims to be Christ’s followers. The RCC in all its history has been the most miserable and hypocritical example in promoting Christ’s teaching, and like the Pharisees of old, replaced the teachings of Christ with the traditions of men. (Matthew 15:7-9)

    You are free to believe whatever you wish, but actions speak louder than any words.
    Your protests like your scriptural references are just weak excuses to believe their lies, IMO.

    The church did not conquer the Roman Empire, it was absorbed by it. The ‘Jesus” that was worshipped in the Roman Empire was none other than a renamed Zeus. The adoration of Mary simply a continuation of mother goddess worship. You seem clueless as to your church’s origins and the source of their teachings.
    Please read 2 Corinthians 6:14-18.
     
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