The Problems of Perpetual Belief Alone Salvation-ism.

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face2face

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Isn't that interesting “given assurance” of judgement by raising Christ from the dead. (Gr. pistis) is the word commonly translated "faith" (cp. Romans 10:17). It is a matter of belief, and the evidence of that belief has been clearly demonstrated in the work of God in Christ (2 Cor 5:19).
His death was a judgement against sin and the wonder of the resurrection was a divine seal upon the Lord Jesus Christ and his faithful obedience and willingness to sacrifice himself for God and his people (Romans 1:4),

He is the "firstborn" of those sheep who should follow his example (Col. 1:15, 18; Heb. 12:23). By both faith and works which he did and has.

So should we be surprised Jesus uses works not toward others but toward him as the basis of judgement in Matthew 25?
 

face2face

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These things are born out of empathy.

A favorite verse of mine is in Galatians 5:6

For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

A working faith expressing itself through love.

And you know fellow board members Christ will judge us for neglecting the weightier matters of the Gospel when he comes to gather the sheep and goats.

We are warned.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Salvation by faith + works (even if it's only works in part) merits salvation (at least in part). Period. Too many folks say they believe Jesus, yet misinterpret the words of Jesus and end up submitting themselves to a false religion or cult expecting to receive God's grace based on works. I have news for you. We are justified/accounted as righteous by faith "apart from additions or modifications" and we have access by faith into grace. (Romans 5:1-2) I know how you like to try and "shoe horn" works "into" salvation through faith, but the shoe does not fit.
We are accounted righteous by faith. We have ACCESS by faith into grace. ACCESS means we gain entrance into God’s grace without works through faith. This faith does not remain as a belief alone. Faith is described to us as both a belief alone (Hebrews 11:3), and faith is also described to us as doing what God tells us to do like in Hebrews 11:7. For by faith, Noah prepared an Ark to the saving of his household. This was a work done in faith. It was an example of faith. Nowhere does the chapter give examples solely on just one having a belief alone in Jesus while one justifies sin done on occasion as you believe (like in your false interpretation on 1 John 1:8 that justifies a little bit of upcoming future sin). God cannot agree with sin because He is holy. So having a mindset that you can sin (as a future statement), and you believe you will be saved is contrary to God’s will. Again, Paul says if you provide not for your own (Especially those of our own household), you have denied the faith and you are worse than an infidel (unbeliever) (See: 1 Timothy 5:8). This can only be talking to believers. Unbelievers cannot be worse than an unbeliever. To provide for your own is a good work, and this relates to our salvation because you cannot deny the faith and be worse than an unbeliever and be saved. This is just one of the many verses that you have to ignore and or twist because you don’t like what it plainly says. I don’t have that problem. I just read verses like this and I believe them.


Your idea of submitting to Jesus culminates in salvation by works, which results in merit for the alleged believer. I've heard this same sugar coated double talk from Roman Catholics about saved by "these" works and just not "those" works which is bogus.
It’s not bogus. Lets look at the Scriptures once again (That you ignore).

Luke 9:23-27
23And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. 24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. 25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away? 26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels. 27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.”

Notice. It says if any man comes after him, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Him. For whoever shall lose his life shall save it, and whoever shall save his life, shall lose it.

The idea here is that you if you lose your life for Jesus, you will save it eternally.
If you save your life (in living for yourself), you will lose your life eternally.

This is in context to Jesus saying, what advantage if man gains the whole world and loses himself and or to be cast away?
Again, this stresses the point that this is a salvation issue. In fact, Jesus explains further and says: Whoever is ashamed of Jesus and His words, the Son of Man (Jesus) shall be ashamed.

A similar expression is expressed in Matthew 10:32-33. It says:

”Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven..” (Matthew 10:32-33).

So if a person denies Jesus before men, Jesus will also deny that same person before the Father.
Meaning, they will not be saved.
It‘s like in Matthew 6:15, if we don’t forgive others, then the Father will not forgive us.
So what we do here on Earth has an eternal bearing upon our status with the Lord.
To not see this, one has to twist, duck, and dodge Scripture at every turn.

In regards to obeying God's commandments, none of us have flawlessly obeyed God's commandments 100% of the time (except for Jesus Christ) so that is not the way to salvation.
The heart is deceitful and desperately wicked. So to quote your own thoughts that come from your heart or thinking that is outside of God’s Word is a faulty premise or way to build the faith. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17), and not in our worldly wisdom or thinkIng. So you would need the testimony of NT Scripture to back up your claim that actually says the same words that you are saying here. Yes, I am aware of 1 John 1:8, Romans 7:14-24, but you are taking these verses out of context to the rest of the Bible teaching how we can also overcome sin in this life (See: 1 Peter 4:1-2, Galatians 5:24, and 2 Corinthians 7:1). Jesus told two people to “sin no more.” (John 5:14) (John 8:11).


Now genuine believers do "keep" (guard, observe, watch) over His commandments (1 John 2:3) which is not the same as flawless obedience 100% of the time. God only see's us as flawless based on the imputed righteousness of Christ by faith. (Romans 4:5-6; Philippians 3:9)
The imputation of Christ is also found in 1 John 1:7, but I believe I have already mentioned this to you before, and you have rejected it.
You need to love your brother as a part of walking in the light (1 John 2:9-11). Walking in the light enables us for the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from all sin (In addition to Romans 3:25).
 

Bible Highlighter

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Sure, let the good Berean reader come to examine the real truth found in Scripture and discover your eisegesis for themselves like I have.
If they have the same mind set to sin, then they are still being controlled by the prince of the power of the air. Bible hermeneutics will not help them because they will only see a means to turn the Scriptures as an excuse to sin in some way along with what they believe is serving God. A person needs to be born again spiritually and be changed whereby they would naturally not want to even justify any kind of sin. They will let the Word of God change them instead of them trying to change the Word of God to defend sin.


It really doesn't matter how much Scriptural evidence is provided for you anyway because you just don't have eyes to see. Type 2 works salvation implied in entire sanctification is not the truth and it's also a perverted gospel. Glad you were amused. I don't find your endless, self righteous rants or your false gospel amusing at all.
God talks about how He sends a strong delusion to believe a lie because they believed not the truth but they had pleasure in unrighteousness (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12). When one says they must sin again, this is pleasure in unrighteousness because one is not letting their sin go (When the Bible teaches that they can overcome sin in this life - See again: 1 Peter 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:1, Galatians 5:24). Sin is pleasurable. So men not letting sin go is because they like their sin, and it pleases them. It has nothing to do with God and His Word in them holding on to their sin. So many Christian men today are in grave error in using 1 John 1:8 as an excuse to sin.
 

mailmandan

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We are accounted righteous by faith. We have ACCESS by faith into grace. ACCESS means we gain entrance into God’s grace without works through faith. This faith does not remain as a belief alone.
Yes, we are accounted as righteous by faith and we have access by faith into grace apart from works. (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1-2) Although this faith does not remain alone - "barren of works" (James 2:14) it's still belief/faith that trusts in Christ alone for salvation that saves us from beginning (Ephesians 2:8) to end (1 Peter 1:9).
Faith is described to us as both a belief alone (Hebrews 11:3), and faith is also described to us as doing what God tells us to do like in Hebrews 11:7. For by faith, Noah prepared an Ark to the saving of his household. This was a work done in faith. It was an example of faith.
In Hebrews 11, notice in all of these occurrences that is was "by" or "out of" faith, not faith is in essence, these acts of obedience/works. Their faith was genuine and it was shown by their actions (works) so all of these works accomplished in Hebrews 11 were done "by" or "out of" faith, but those works are not the essence of faith, only the evidence (fruit) of faith. That is absolutely critical to understand. We are saved through faith at it's origin and not at some time later, based on the merit of works. Faith is the root of salvation and works which follow are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root.

Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith, not the origin of it and building the ark saved Noah and his family (physically) from drowning. (Hebrews 11:7)
Nowhere does the chapter give examples solely on just one having a belief alone in Jesus while one justifies sin done on occasion as you believe (like in your false interpretation on 1 John 1:8 that justifies a little bit of upcoming future sin). God cannot agree with sin because He is holy. So having a mindset that you can sin (as a future statement), and you believe you will be saved is contrary to God’s will.
Here you are teaching that faith + sinless perfection = salvation. So according to you, anything short of living a sinless, absolute perfect life 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus lived) as a Christian means we won't be saved. As I already explained numerous times, 1 John 1:8 is in the 'present tense' and completely destroys sinless perfection. Having a mindset of sinless perfection demonstrates that such a person is suffering from a terminal case of self righteousness. (1 John 1:8-10)

1 John 2:1 - My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous. Why would John say that if sinless perfection was an absolute must or else? I will be saved because of belief/faith in Jesus. (John 3:18; Acts 10:43; 26:18) He is ALL-SUFFICIENT means of my salvation. (Romans 3:24-28; 4:5-6) John 6:40 - For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day. It's ALL about Christ. His finished work of redemption is sufficient and complete to save believers. No supplements needed.

Again, Paul says if you provide not for your own (Especially those of our own household), you have denied the faith and you are worse than an infidel (unbeliever) (See: 1 Timothy 5:8). This can only be talking to believers. Unbelievers cannot be worse than an unbeliever. To provide for your own is a good work, and this relates to our salvation because you cannot deny the faith and be worse than an unbeliever and be saved. This is just one of the many verses that you have to ignore and or twist because you don’t like what it plainly says. I don’t have that problem. I just read verses like this and I believe them.
Any believer who does not provide for his own household is denying the apostolic Christian faith. Even most pagans would fulfill this duty, so in this situation at Ephesus, a believer would be behaving worse than a pagan. Nothing there about remaining that way and losing salvation. That is your eisegesis. Christians, especially babes in Christ may not always do a good job of behaving like a Christian, as we see in 1 Corinthians 3:1-3, yet they are still babes in Christ.

It’s not bogus. Lets look at the Scriptures once again (That you ignore).
I don't ignore scripture. I just don't agree with your eisegesis that culminates in 'type 2 works salvation' and 'sinless perfection.'

Luke 9:23-27
23And he said to them all, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow me. 24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it. 25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away? 26 For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels. 27 But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.”

Notice. It says if any man comes after him, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily and follow Him. For whoever shall lose his life shall save it, and whoever shall save his life, shall lose it.
This is descriptive of true disciples.

The idea here is that you if you lose your life for Jesus, you will save it eternally.
If you save your life (in living for yourself), you will lose your life eternally.
Descriptive of genuine believers.

This is in context to Jesus saying, what advantage if man gains the whole world and loses himself and or to be cast away?
Again, this stresses the point that this is a salvation issue. In fact, Jesus explains further and says: Whoever is ashamed of Jesus and His words, the Son of Man (Jesus) shall be ashamed.
Being ashamed of Jesus and His words is descriptive of unbelievers, which includes 'pseudo' Christians who were deceived.

A similar expression is expressed in Matthew 10:32-33. It says:

”Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven
But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven..” (Matthew 10:32-33).
In context, this passage relates to the fact that the Pharisees had continuously denied Jesus while the disciples continued to speak about Him in every city they visited. We may paraphrase His teaching this way: "Whoever confesses me before men (such as you disciples), I will confess him before my Father in heaven. But whoever denies me before men (like the Pharisees), I will deny him before my Father in heaven.

Those who confess Jesus are those who recognize Him as being the true Messiah and trust in Him as the ALL-sufficient means of their salvation. Those who deny Jesus (and those who give mere lip service confession) but refuse to trust in Him alone for salvation place themselves beyond any possibility of salvation, since salvation is found only in Him. (John 3:15,16,18; 10:9; Acts 10:43; 16:31; 26:18)

The word for "deny" is an aorist tense. This points to the fact that Jesus is not talking about a single instance of denial (as was the case with Peter, who actually denied Jesus three times (Luke 22:56-62) but is referring to life in its entirety. Hence, the person who throughout his life denies Christ (as was typically the case with the Pharisess and includes unbelievers who may even give mere "lip service confession" - Matthew 7:21-23, but lack saving faith in Christ) will be denied by Christ before the Father.

CONTINUED...
 

mailmandan

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So if a person denies Jesus before men, Jesus will also deny that same person before the Father.
Meaning, they will not be saved.
Unbelievers in general (including pseudo Christians who gave lip service confession and thought they were saved, but were deceived) will not be saved. (John 3:18; Matthew 7:21-23; John 6:40)

It‘s like in Matthew 6:15, if we don’t forgive others, then the Father will not forgive us.
So what we do here on Earth has an eternal bearing upon our status with the Lord.
To not see this, one has to twist, duck, and dodge Scripture at every turn.
Unforgiveness is the mark of an unbeliever and forgiveness is the mark of a genuine believer. We should forgive others because God, through Christ, has forgiven us (Ephesians 4:32). It is inconceivable that someone who has truly experienced God's forgiveness would refuse to grant forgiveness to others. This is not about works righteousness.

The heart is deceitful and desperately wicked. So to quote your own thoughts that come from your heart or thinking that is outside of God’s Word is a faulty premise or way to build the faith. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17), and not in our worldly wisdom or thinkIng. So you would need the testimony of NT Scripture to back up your claim that actually says the same words that you are saying here.
I have backed up my claim from NT Scripture multiple times, but it doesn't fit your narrative, so you continue to reject it.

Yes, I am aware of 1 John 1:8, Romans 7:14-24, but you are taking these verses out of context to the rest of the Bible teaching how we can also overcome sin in this life (See: 1 Peter 4:1-2, Galatians 5:24, and 2 Corinthians 7:1). Jesus told two people to “sin no more.” (John 5:14) (John 8:11).
I believe that you are taking those verses out of context in order to support the heretical doctrine of sinless perfection. (1 John 1:8-10) In regards to "sin no more," I already explained this to you in post #269 from the link below:


Once again, I've seen people abuse and misuse the words of Jesus here in John 5:14 and John 8:11 to demand sinless perfection, yet none of us meet that standard and Jesus cannot compromise his perfect, holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit." In John 8:11, Jesus was telling the woman to go and leave her life of sin, namely, she had been practicing adultery.

The imputation of Christ is also found in 1 John 1:7, but I believe I have already mentioned this to you before, and you have rejected it.
You need to love your brother as a part of walking in the light (1 John 2:9-11). Walking in the light enables us for the blood of Jesus to cleanse us from all sin (In addition to Romans 3:25).
Where do we find the word "imputed" in 1 John 1:7? More eisegesis on your part. As I already explained to you in post #1,391 from the link below:


In 1 John 1:6, we read - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. Walking in darkness is 'descriptive' of children of the devil. Walking in the light is 'descriptive' of children of God. Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. Verse 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that "walks in darkness" and "hates his brother" is in connection with "children of the devil."

*Notice how I properly harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine.*
 
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mailmandan

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If they have the same mind set to sin, then they are still being controlled by the prince of the power of the air. Bible hermeneutics will not help them because they will only see a means to turn the Scriptures as an excuse to sin in some way along with what they believe is serving God. A person needs to be born again spiritually and be changed whereby they would naturally not want to even justify any kind of sin. They will let the Word of God change them instead of them trying to change the Word of God to defend sin.

God talks about how He sends a strong delusion to believe a lie because they believed not the truth but they had pleasure in unrighteousness (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12). When one says they must sin again, this is pleasure in unrighteousness because one is not letting their sin go (When the Bible teaches that they can overcome sin in this life - See again: 1 Peter 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:1, Galatians 5:24). Sin is pleasurable. So men not letting sin go is because they like their sin, and it pleases them. It has nothing to do with God and His Word in them holding on to their sin. So many Christian men today are in grave error in using 1 John 1:8 as an excuse to sin.
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Bible Highlighter

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Yes, we are accounted as righteous by faith and we have access by faith into grace apart from works. (Romans 4:5-6; 5:1-2) Although this faith does not remain alone - "barren of works" (James 2:14) it's still belief/faith that trusts in Christ alone for salvation that saves us from beginning (Ephesians 2:8) to end (1 Peter 1:9).
James 2:14 says,
“What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?”

The answer to this question is… “No” because…

James 2:17 says,
”Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.”

So you need works or you have a dead faith.
A dead faith will not save you.
So belief alone will not save you as you claim (even though you claim that works will be there to show a true faith as if to say the same thing I am saying). For can you be saved by a belief alone without works? If not… then works are required as a part of salvation.
I mean stop a moment. Are you really concerned with doing good works? Do you do good works because you think they are needed to show how you must have a faith that saves? Either way… you need works to have salvation. If not, then don’t be concerned with good works (if they are not salvific). You cannot escape it unless you join the Hyper Grace crowd (Whereby their belief is consistent when they say they believe they are saved by a belief alone in Jesus + nothing else). Again, you are just not able to see the contradiction of your own belief at this time.

As for your mention of Ephesians 2:8:

Well, Ephesians 2:8 is in reference to our Initial Salvation (See: Ephesians 2:1-4).

Ephesians 2:9 is in reference to how we are not saved initially by works (or man directed works alone done for salvation whereby we would boast in ourselves - which was brought up because of the problem of those who were being deceived into thinking they had to be first circumcised in order to be saved - See: Acts 15:1, Acts 15:5, Acts 15:24, Galatians 5:2, Romans 2:25-29, Romans 3:1, Romans 4:9-12, etcetera). For if a person thought they had to first be circumcised to be saved would be bypassing the grace of God (Involving our Initial Salvation). Circumcision is a part of the Old Law (i.e. the 613 Laws of Moses) that we are not under (See again Acts 15, Acts 13:39).

But in Ephesians 2:10 it changes and switches gears to talking about the works we do in Christ Jesus (Which we are ordained that we should walk in them). Ephesians 2:9 is not these same works because nobody boasts in the works of Christ because they come from the LORD (John 15:5) (Philippians 2:13), and boasting is excluded when it comes to the law of faith. So anything outside of the law of faith would be boasting.

As for your mention of 1 Peter 1:9:

1 Peter 1:9 says,
“Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.”

This is tied in with the next chapter that says,

”And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.” (1 Peter 2:8).

This does not sound like belief alone in the finished work of the cross for salvation here. It says that there are those who stumble at the word being disobedient whereby they are appointed. This does not sound like a good end for those who are stumbling at the Word.

In fact, 1 Timothy 6:12 is another verse that talks about salvation we must do today all the way to the end to the saving of our souls.

It says, “Fight the good fight of the faith. Take hold of the eternal life to which you were called when you made the good confession before many witnesses.” (1 Timothy 6:12).

So you have to fight and not just believe In order to take hold of eternal life (salvation in the end).

In Hebrews 11, notice in all of these occurrences that is was "by" or "out of" faith, not faith is in essence, these acts of obedience/works. Their faith was genuine and it was shown by their actions (works) so all of these works accomplished in Hebrews 11 were done "by" or "out of" faith, but those works are not the essence of faith, only the evidence (fruit) of faith. That is absolutely critical to understand. We are saved through faith at it's origin and not at some time later, based on the merit of works. Faith is the root of salvation and works which follow are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root.
By can sometimes just mean by or from as we see in Romans 5:1 that says,

”Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:” (Romans 5:1).

By the way, this Greek word “ek” in this verse above for the English word ”by” can mean ”out of,” but obviously you would not interpret it that way in this instance; And neither would I.

There is no real distinction in Hebrews 11, though. It uses the word “by” and “through” to refer to faith.

For example: The words “Through faith” is used to describe a belief alone in Hebrews 11:3, and yet it is used to describe how Moses kept the Passover in Egypt.

Hebrews 11:3
”Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God,…”

Hebrews 11:28
Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.”

This merely shows there really is no distinction between a belief alone and acting in faith. Both are exercising faith.

It’s like God telling you to walk across a bridge that looks like it is going to fall apart to help the people on the other side.
God assures you that you will be okay. So if you don’t obey, you did not have faith.

Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith, not the origin of it and building the ark saved Noah and his family (physically) from drowning. (Hebrews 11:7)
This is just silly. Noah would not be saved even spiritually if he refused to build the Ark and he just believed God was correct in everything that God said and he perished in the flood. Faith alone would not save him. You say that Noah’s faith was a demonstration of his faith. But that is saying that is a part of his faith. A Christian can demonstrate how they love somebody by their actions. If they do not love a person, then no loving actions would flow. So a Christian loving in their actions is love. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. They are connected and you cannot separate the Love of God from God’s loving actions. Where there is one, there is the other will be always. James says he will show you his faith by his works. This means they are also not disconnected. James says works makes one’s faith perfect. This is not possible if there is not a symbiotic relationship between them that cannot be broken. Yet, you try to separate the two as if they are completely foreign to each other. The work of God is not separate from God anymore than the work of faith is separate from the faith. Faith comes by hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). So faith is everything in your Bible. You have to believe everything that is written. The Holy Bible is the faith. You have to believe all of it including the parts where God tells you to do good works (Ephesians 2:10). Hence, works are a part of your faith because you are only following what the Bible says by faith. You really cannot escape that and say that this part of the Bible is not something you are to believe or trust in by faith. This is what is dumb about your belief here. You attempt to dissect out certain parts of the Bible that you don’t like to be a part of the faith.

The flood was an example to all who would live ungodly thereafter (2 Peter 2:4-6).
They perished because they were wicked.
If Noah lived as wicked as them, he would have perished, too.
If Noah refused to build or get on the Ark, he would have perished and he would have been in rebellion towards GOD and he would not be able to enter the Kingdom of God. So a belief alone (with no works) would not save Noah’s eternal soul. Works of faith were needed as a part of his faith. For by faith, Noah prepared an Ark to the saving of his household (Hebrews 11:7). Noah was not doing something that was not rooted in faith. Noah was believing God by his obedience because God was telling him to build the Ark.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Let me ask you. How often do you think a Christian has to sin on occasion (Not practicing sin) in order to fulfill your interpretation on 1 John 1:8? Do you have to sin on occasion every week? Every day? Every month? Every year? Every ten years? In your experience from your own life or by looking to the life of other Christians and their sharing their experiences with you on this, do they sin very infrequently (like once every 10 years), or frequently like once every week or month?

Also, you promote Seinfeld with your Avatar (Which is a sinful worldly TV show).

How often do you watch and enjoy this sinful TV series?

According to one article:

Most episodes of Seinfeld circuitously forward two worldviews: The first is that most people are bad (and not very smart). The second is that caring about other people is absurd (and not very practical). It is the most villainous sitcom ever made, particularly since its massive audience never seemed to fully grasp what it was literally seeing. This was true from its inception. There's an episode from the first season ("Male Unbonding") in which Jerry reconsiders his lifelong friendship with a self-absorbed man he hates. The relationship is based on nostalgia; as a child, the despised man's family owned a Ping-Pong table. Jerry longs to sever this relationship and resents that the man still desires his company. "I would have been friends with Stalin if he had a Ping-Pong table," he tells George (a different self-absorbed friend Jerry actually likes). All of this is funny, because Jerry Seinfeld is funny; it's also relatable, because adolescent familiarity sometimes lasts longer than it should. But consider what this premise is really doing: It is satirizing the notion that relationships matter. It suggests that healthy friendships are disposable, and that the commitments we make to nonessential acquaintances are absurd extensions of social politeness. And this is not the subtext. This is the text.

On Seinfeld, the characters express contempt for emotion. It is the weakest quality a human can possess. This could be demonstrated in roughly half of the show's 180 episodes, but one does so overtly: In an episode titled "The Serenity Now," Jerry's thirty-minute girlfriend (ex–Full House star Lori Loughlin) pushes him to get angry, simply to see if he has the ability to express any kind of emotion in any given scenario. This is both a commentary on Seinfeld's fictional character (who doesn't empathize with anyone) and a meta-commentary on Seinfeld's technical ability as an actor (which borders on nonexistent). When the girlfriend's plan succeeds, the floodgates open. Jerry becomes an emotional wreck who cries constantly, much to his own confusion ("What is this salty discharge?" he wonders aloud). His emotional instability makes him creepy and annoying, ultimately prompting him to propose marriage to Elaine for no rational reason. By the end of the episode, his hysteria has passed. Jerry returns to his former uncaring self, and everyone (including the audience) is relieved.

Source:

The Shoes,” Season 4, Episode 16

George is caught staring at his boss’ teenage daughter’s cleavage. His defense is that it was in his “field of vision.” The entire gang orchestrates a scenario for Elaine to show cleavage in front of his boss in order to demonstrate that when cleavage is visible, straight men are rendered powerless and cannot help but stare, justifying George’s ogling of a 15-year-old.


Source:

As for the Wizard of Oz Picture:

This again is a promotion of a sinful movie (and people do not even know it is sinful).
First, it subtly promotes for a time that there is a concept of good witches (of which there is no such thing).
The Bible condemns all forms of sorcery and witchcraft.
Second, the good Wizard is portrayed as God, and yet it turns out he is a fraud (Which is an attack upon God and or the faith).
The film proposes humanism because the characters learn to get what they want on their journey (humanism) rather than trusting in God. So the film is Anti-God or Anti-Christian.

So even in your reply in attempt to imply your innocence, you are only making it worse by your promoting a sinful film.
 

Bible Highlighter

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Unbelievers in general (including pseudo Christians who gave lip service confession and thought they were saved, but were deceived) will not be saved. (John 3:18; Matthew 7:21-23; John 6:40)


Unforgiveness is the mark of an unbeliever and forgiveness is the mark of a genuine believer. We should forgive others because God, through Christ, has forgiven us (Ephesians 4:32). It is inconceivable that someone who has truly experienced God's forgiveness would refuse to grant forgiveness to others. This is not about works righteousness.


I have backed up my claim from NT Scripture multiple times, but it doesn't fit your narrative, so you continue to reject it.


I believe that you are taking those verses out of context in order to support the heretical doctrine of sinless perfection. (1 John 1:8-10) In regards to "sin no more," I already explained this to you in post #269 from the link below:


Once again, I've seen people abuse and misuse the words of Jesus here in John 5:14 and John 8:11 to demand sinless perfection, yet none of us meet that standard and Jesus cannot compromise his perfect, holy standard, so of course He is not going to say, "go and just sin a little bit." In John 8:11, Jesus was telling the woman to go and leave her life of sin, namely, she had been practicing adultery.


Where do we find the word "imputed" in 1 John 1:7? More eisegesis on your part. As I already explained to you in post #1,391 from the link below:


In 1 John 1:6, we read - If we say that we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie and do not practice the truth. But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin. Walking in darkness is 'descriptive' of children of the devil. Walking in the light is 'descriptive' of children of God. Only those who are saved/believers are in the light.

Acts 26:18 - to open their eyes, in order to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan to God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who are sanctified by faith in Me.

2 Corinthians 6:14 - Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:8 - for you were formerly darkness, but now you are Light in the Lord; walk as children of Light. Children of the devil walk in darkness, not in the light. Children of God walk in the light, not in darkness. IF confirms these positions in verses 6 and 7. It's one or the other.

In 1 John 2:9, we read - He who says he is in the light, and hates his brother, is in darkness until now. Verse 11 - But he who hates his brother is in darkness and walks in darkness, and does not know where he is going, because the darkness has blinded his eyes.

*Compare with 1 John 3:10 - In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, (compare with 1 John 1:6 - does not practice the truth) nor is he who does not love his brother. *Notice that "walks in darkness" and "hates his brother" is in connection with "children of the devil."

*Notice how I properly harmonized scripture with scripture before reaching your conclusion on doctrine.*
While 1 John 1:7 does not have the word imputed in the verse, the concept is still there because IF we walk in the light (Which is conditional or a condition we have to meet by loving our brother - 1 John 2:9-11) the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. So by loving our brother, the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin. That is what John is saying in 1 John 1:7. But it’s not forced upon you because of a one time decision you made for Jesus Christ. The IF word is used in 1 John 1:7 and it uses the word WE.
This is conditional and not unconditional and it includes even the writer John who is writing this condition (Because of the word “we”). So IF we (John include) walk in the light (love our brother), the blood of Jesus cleanses from all sin. 1 John 3:10 says we are not of God if we do not love our brother and don’t do righteousness. If we hate our brother we are like a murderer and no murderer has eternal life abiding in them (1 John 3:15). 1 John 1:7 is not descriptive of believers. It is not written in that way. If that was the case it would say, And all those who are truly born of God will walk in the light guaranteed for all eternity (never falling back), and we know that these are the ones who have the blood of Jesus cleanse them from all sin. But 1 John 1:7 does not say it like that.
 

Gospel Believer

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Let me ask you. How often do you think a Christian has to sin on occasion (Not practicing sin) in order to fulfill your interpretation on 1 John 1:8? Do you have to sin on occasion every week? Every day? Every month? Every year? Every ten years? In your experience from your own life or by looking to the life of other Christians and their sharing their experiences with you on this, do they sin very infrequently (like once every 10 years), or frequently like once every week or month?

Also, you promote Seinfeld with your Avatar (Which is a sinful worldly TV show).

How often do you watch and enjoy this sinful TV series?

According to one article:

Most episodes of Seinfeld circuitously forward two worldviews: The first is that most people are bad (and not very smart). The second is that caring about other people is absurd (and not very practical). It is the most villainous sitcom ever made, particularly since its massive audience never seemed to fully grasp what it was literally seeing. This was true from its inception. There's an episode from the first season ("Male Unbonding") in which Jerry reconsiders his lifelong friendship with a self-absorbed man he hates. The relationship is based on nostalgia; as a child, the despised man's family owned a Ping-Pong table. Jerry longs to sever this relationship and resents that the man still desires his company. "I would have been friends with Stalin if he had a Ping-Pong table," he tells George (a different self-absorbed friend Jerry actually likes). All of this is funny, because Jerry Seinfeld is funny; it's also relatable, because adolescent familiarity sometimes lasts longer than it should. But consider what this premise is really doing: It is satirizing the notion that relationships matter. It suggests that healthy friendships are disposable, and that the commitments we make to nonessential acquaintances are absurd extensions of social politeness. And this is not the subtext. This is the text.

On Seinfeld, the characters express contempt for emotion. It is the weakest quality a human can possess. This could be demonstrated in roughly half of the show's 180 episodes, but one does so overtly: In an episode titled "The Serenity Now," Jerry's thirty-minute girlfriend (ex–Full House star Lori Loughlin) pushes him to get angry, simply to see if he has the ability to express any kind of emotion in any given scenario. This is both a commentary on Seinfeld's fictional character (who doesn't empathize with anyone) and a meta-commentary on Seinfeld's technical ability as an actor (which borders on nonexistent). When the girlfriend's plan succeeds, the floodgates open. Jerry becomes an emotional wreck who cries constantly, much to his own confusion ("What is this salty discharge?" he wonders aloud). His emotional instability makes him creepy and annoying, ultimately prompting him to propose marriage to Elaine for no rational reason. By the end of the episode, his hysteria has passed. Jerry returns to his former uncaring self, and everyone (including the audience) is relieved.

Source:

The Shoes,” Season 4, Episode 16

George is caught staring at his boss’ teenage daughter’s cleavage. His defense is that it was in his “field of vision.” The entire gang orchestrates a scenario for Elaine to show cleavage in front of his boss in order to demonstrate that when cleavage is visible, straight men are rendered powerless and cannot help but stare, justifying George’s ogling of a 15-year-old.


Source:

As for the Wizard of Oz Picture:

This again is a promotion of a sinful movie (and people do not even know it is sinful).
First, it subtly promotes for a time that there is a concept of good witches (of which there is no such thing).
The Bible condemns all forms of sorcery and witchcraft.
Second, the good Wizard is portrayed as God, and yet it turns out he is a fraud (Which is an attack upon God and or the faith).
The film proposes humanism because the characters learn to get what they want on their journey (humanism) rather than trusting in God. So the film is Anti-God or Anti-Christian.

So even in your reply in attempt to imply your innocence, you are only making it worse by your promoting a sinful film.


Who needs “ Seinfeld” when we have the Simpsons! I bet you never missed an episode! Which one is your favorite?
We’re you as disappointed as I was with that crazy ending to “ The Sopranos?” .....
 

Bible Highlighter

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Who needs “ Seinfeld” when we have the Simpsons! I bet you never missed an episode! Which one is your favorite?
We’re you as disappointed as I was with that crazy ending to “ The Sopranos?” .....
I was not a big fan of the Simpsons or Seinfeld growing up (Although I did see a few episodes of the Simpsons). Comedies or sitcoms was never really my thing.

It has been a very long time since I watched worldly shows and I have no interest in watching them because of the sinful things promoted within them. As a believer I have no interest because they grieve my soul. We are told not to love the world, and nether the things in the world. If any man loves the world, the love of the Father is not in them.

Currently, I watch Christian films, and educational documentaries, etcetera.

Here is a list of Christians films I would recommend (if you are interested):

 
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