The proof of OSAS

[Rollo Tamasi]

Yes, I've watched the videos, heard the stories, debated the debates but no one, not anyone, has ever provided convincing proof that OSAS is wrong.
And why would they want to?
Why is it important to tell someone that God's promise isn't true, but you have to continue to work your way to heaven to make it there.
The only proof one needs is the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

2 Kings 2:3b; "Do you know that the Lord is going to take your master from you today"?
This is a question that Elijah asked Elisha several times.
And then Elijah went up to heaven in a whirl wind.
Question: How did Elijah know he was going to heaven?

Psalm 23: 6b; "..and I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever".
Question: How did David know he would dwell in the House of the Lord forever?

2 Timothy 4:7-8; "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day--and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing."
Question: How did Paul know his fate and how did he know to promise the same to us?

The answer to these questions is being indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
If you think you can lose your salvation, then maybe you can.

 

[Helen]

Yes, I've watched the videos, heard the stories, debated the debates but no one, not anyone, has ever provided convincing proof that OSAS is wrong.
And why would they want to?
Why is it important to tell someone that God's promise isn't true, but you have to continue to work your way to heaven to make it there.
The only proof one needs is the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

2 Kings 2:3b; "Do you know that the Lord is going to take your master from you today"?
This is a question that Elijah asked Elisha several times.
And then Elijah went up to heaven in a whirl wind.
Question: How did Elijah know he was going to heaven?

Psalm 23: 6b; "..and I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever".
Question: How did David know he would dwell in the House of the Lord forever?

2 Timothy 4:7-8; "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day--and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing."
Question: How did Paul know his fate and how did he know to promise the same to us?

The answer to these questions is being indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
If you think you can lose your salvation, then maybe you can.

Amen...
Except for you last line...that kinda pulls the plug on all the rest.
I go a step further, I say a son is a son , even if he is a bastard son.

 

[DPMartin]

Question: How did Paul know his fate and how did he know to promise the same to us?

The answer to these questions is being indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
If you think you can lose your salvation, then maybe you can.

if you have the faith to be faithful then you had that same faith at the start of the faith you received. if you receive a 100 you have a hundred not 99. if you have a full tank you will get there, if not then you didn't have what it took in the first place. its not special knowledge to understand if you got what it takes, in this case have received the Life of Christ, then the Life is lived. you can't live a dog's life if you have received the life of a cat.

 

[Helen]

if you have the faith to be faithful then you had that same faith at the start of the faith you received. if you receive a 100 you have a hundred not 99. if you have a full tank you will get there, if not then you didn't have what it took in the first place. its not special knowledge to understand if you got what it takes, in this case have received the Life of Christ, then the Life is lived. you can't live a dog's life if you have received the life of a cat.

Can you say that again for me...differently?
So are you saying that you do not believe it? Thanks.

 

[forgiven Wretch]

Does God's Word not tell us that we are sealed Heb 4:30?

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Amen...
Except for you last line...that kinda pulls the plug on all the rest.
I go a step further, I say a son is a son , even if he is a bastard son.

My last statement is opinionated, as I start with "If" and then end with "maybe".
So the reader can take it any way they like.

 

[Helen]

My last statement is opinionated, as I start with "If" and then end with "maybe".
So the reader can take it any way they like.

Got it!

 

[Helen]

Does God's Word not tell us that we are sealed Heb 4:30?

WELCOME to the Site.

 

[forgiven Wretch]

Thank you!

 

[mjrhealth]

Does God's Word not tell us that we are sealed Heb 4:30?

Amen

 

[amadeus]

Does God's Word not tell us that we are sealed Heb 4:30?

Welcome to the forum!

Perhaps you meant Ephesians 4:30 since the 4th chapter of Hebrews contains only 16 verses.
In any case sealing something is good only if the seal is not broken too soon by grieving the Holy Spirit.

"And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption." Eph 4:30

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

I believe that when we quench the Spirit we break the seal early and spoil the contents. When my mother used to can fruit and vegetables she was very careful to properly seal the jars. When she went to get one of those jars to use for dinner and discovered that the seal had been broken, the contents had to be thrown away. It was no longer good to eat.

 

[forgiven Wretch]

Thank you for the welcome! It's good to be here.

Thank you for the correction, it is most definitely Ephesians I was referring to.

Romans 8:38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Do you believe that "we" can ever begin to put out God's flame? Sealed is sealed imo.

Remember the same God who saved you is the same God who will keep you. Once we are saved we are always saved. Our salvation is most definitely eternally secure!

 

[amadeus]

Yes, I've watched the videos, heard the stories, debated the debates but no one, not anyone, has ever provided convincing proof that OSAS is wrong.
And why would they want to?

If it is not true, telling what is true would be important, would it not?
If Samuel had told Saul as he anointed him King of Israel that as a result of that anointing everything would always be OK between Saul and God what good would such a twisting of the truth have done for Saul?

Why is it important to tell someone that God's promise isn't true, but you have to continue to work your way to heaven to make it there.

A misunderstanding of what was promised does not change what was promised.

The only proof one needs is the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

A conviction from God does not necessarily equal salvation.

2 Kings 2:3b; "Do you know that the Lord is going to take your master from you today"?
This is a question that Elijah asked Elisha several times.
And then Elijah went up to heaven in a whirl wind.
Question: How did Elijah know he was going to heaven?

Elijah had at that time finished his course and God let him know it, but we have not finished ours until it is finished. We may have a vision of the Way of God, but before we can arrive at the end of our course, we must walk the whole length of it.

Paul similarly knew when he had finished his as we see when he wrote these words:

"For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:" II Tim 4:6-7

Their vision at the end became clear, but until we move beyond seeing as through a glass darkly, our end result is unknown to us.

Psalm 23: 6b; "..and I will dwell in the House of the Lord forever".
Question: How did David know he would dwell in the House of the Lord forever?

Same answer as before. If David had a vision of his final end from God then in truth he could write what he wrote. Saying we have a vision does not make it so.

2 Timothy 4:7-8; "I have fought the good fight, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day--and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing."
Question: How did Paul know his fate and how did he know to promise the same to us?

Already answered: Consider what Paul wrote here:

"For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

When he wrote those words, he was still seeing through a glass darkly. When he wrote the verses quoted from II Timothy his vision had clarified to the "face to face". We can only have the same testimony when we see it as clearly as that ourselves.

The answer to these questions is being indwelt with the Holy Spirit.
If you think you can lose your salvation, then maybe you can.

No, my friend, you misunderstand the role of the Holy Spirit in us. It means that we have a new beginning, an new opportunity to do right what Adam and Eve failed to do the first time through. Jesus did not do this for us. He made it possible for us to do it ourselves by means of the Holy Spirit in us.

Jesus overcame the world of His own temptations. He was the first overcomer. To qualify for the promises to overcomers stated in Revelation chapter 1 and chapter 3, we must also overcome as Jesus overcame. Like Adam and Eve we can still eat of the wrong tree and die yet the second time.

 

[amadeus]

Thank you for the welcome! It's good to be here.

Thank you for the correction, it is most definitely Ephesians I was referring to.

Romans 8:38 For I am sure that neither death nor life, nor angels nor rulers, nor things present nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Do you believe that "we" can ever begin to put out God's flame? Sealed is sealed imo.

Remember the same God who saved you is the same God who will keep you. Once we are saved we are always saved. Our salvation is most definitely eternally secure!

No other man or spirit or power can separate us from the love of God, but we can still walk away from it. That had always been our choice. The sacrifice of Jesus did not remove from us our right to choose God's Way or our own ways. Yes it is God who will keep us if we will allow it. Whenever anyone quenches the Holy Spirit in himself, he is limiting the Holy One of Israel.

The power to overcome the ways of our old man was provided, but if instead of surrendering to that power [the Holy Spirit] we hold onto our own reins, we will sink back into our own ways of sin. We will be as the dog returning to his own vomit. We will be as Lot's wife looking back at Sodom.

 

[forgiven Wretch]

John 10:28-29New King James Version (NKJV)
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

 

[amadeus]

John 10:28-29New King James Version (NKJV)
28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand.

So then apparently people who have been saved no longer have the choice to serve God or not. I cannot believe that. God wants people who when given another alternative choose Him because they love Him. No one else can snatch us out of His hand, but until and if we have finished the work we are to do for Him out of our love for Him, we have the option of opting out. I will leave you and the others here with this. If you are right, I am not hurt. If I am right, then it also depends upon what God sees in your heart. Doctrines are important, but charity leads the way to God.

 

[forgiven Wretch]

So God simply throws us to the side and waits for us to hopefully choose Him again? Just how many times do you propose one can be saved?

 

[amadeus]

So God simply throws us to the side and waits for us to hopefully choose Him again? Just how many times do you propose one can be saved?

Salvation is simply a process. I have been saved, I am being saved and I shall be saved.

In the end, if we are really faithful and trusting in Him continuously, He will help us overcome those temptations that keep leading us back to commit sin. God does not throw us aside. We do that to ourselves. The question is how many times will we do that and still really return to God? It should be a process of growth. Consider where Job was in chapter 1 and verse 1, and where he went from there.
He was called a perfect man.
What did he have to gain?
Why did God remove the hedge around him?
How well did he do then without that covering hedge?
Was he not growing closer to God by what he then went through from what was already perfection?
Can we do the same?
Should we do the same?
Must we be the same?

 

[Richard_oti]

Heb 6:4 For as touching those who were once enlightened and tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the age to come, 6 and then fell away, it is impossible to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

 

[tabletalk]

So then apparently people who have been saved no longer have the choice to serve God or not. I cannot believe that. God wants people who when given another alternative choose Him because they love Him. No one else can snatch us out of His hand, but until and if we have finished the work we are to do for Him out of our love for Him, we have the option of opting out. I will leave you and the others here with this. If you are right, I am not hurt. If I am right, then it also depends upon what God sees in your heart. Doctrines are important, but charity leads the way to God.

You said: "So then apparently people who have been saved no longer have the choice to serve God or not."
Not true. Who said that, except you?

You said: "God wants people who when given another alternative choose Him because they love Him."
And they love Him because He loved them first. He really does change the heart. His people fail almost continuously in loving Him as He should be loved; but God renews their minds in Christ Jesus, they repent, have more faith, and persevere to the end.