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Featured The Prophetic Timeline in Scriptures:

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by H. Richard, Jul 3, 2019.

  1. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

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    It is not the purpose of this OP to define the timeline in detail. The purpose is to show that the timeline in prophesy was primarily that of the nation of Israel but that God has temporarily broken this timeline. I will pick it up where God made a covenant with Abraham.

    With Abraham God set aside the Gentiles and started the Jewish nation.
    1. All prophesy was about God dealing with the nation of Israel.
    2. God promised the Jews a kingdom on this earth that would be set up by God Himself.
    3. The Jews had their Messiah and King crucified.
    Break:
    4. Because of their rejection of their Messiah and King they would be punished with a 7 year tribulation (Jacob’s trouble)
    5. After the 7 years their Messiah and King would return and set up the promised kingdom on earth.

    This is certainly not in detail but is shown to point out that between 3 and 4 above God broke the prophetic time line because of the Jew’s rejection of their Messiah and King.
    1a. God broke the prophetic timeline and set aside the Jews.
    2a. God has started a new timeline where He has reached out to the Gentiles.
    3a. This new timeline is based on God’s grace where He, God, has reached out to the whole world and has paid for all the sins of the world.
    4a. This timeline will end with the Rapture of the body of Christ.
    5a. The only people left on the earth are Jews who rejected their Messiah and King and Gentiles who rejected Jesus work on the cross.
    6a. God will finish the original timeline at this point and go back to 4 and 5 in the original timeline.

    I know that many will reject this and that is fine with me. I only post it to get people to think about it.

    I do hope that people think about it instead of talking about me.
     
  2. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Christians have to look beyond prophetic timelines to grasp that God has an eternal plan and purpose for the Church (in the New Jerusalem), and also an eternal plan and purpose for Israel on earth. And there will be saved nations surrounding Israel.
     
  3. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    The lie that I perceive in your OP is that the scattering of Israel in 70 AD to the four corners of the earth was because of their rejection of "Christ."

    The OT clearly states that the scattering of the Israelites to the four corners of the earth was because of their continual idolatrous worship of idols and that it would not be until the events at the end of the fourth age of their existence, that they would begin to realise the consequences of their idolatrous practices and repent of their previous idolatrous practices after which God will once again turn His Face towards them and Gather them to Himself as His Possession Among all of the Nations. God will also make like new again His Mt. Sinai covenant with the nation of Israel where they had agreed to be a Kingdom of Priests, a Holy Nation and His Possession among the Nations but had rejected their covenantal undertaking within 40 days of entering into it.

    God's Grace towards the nation of Israel can then be seen in the Mosaic Covenant that God entered into with Moses for the nation of Israel which provide a means of redemption for the iniquities of their iniquities against God. God's Grace can be seen in His allowance of 490 years for the Israelites to stop their idolatrous practices and return to their relationship with God. Sadly, the Israelite nation as a whole did not repent of their idolatrous practices and continued in them even during the First Advent of Christ. After the ascension of Christ, God allowed a further 40 years of Grace before He allowed the scattering of the nation of Israel to the four corners of the earth.

    As Paul wrote in Romans. 11:25-26, that when the fullness in time of the heathen gentiles has run its 2,300 year course, that God would redeem the Israelites and that all of Israel will be saved.

    At this time there will be no rapture of the "church" as contained in the OP

    The timeline of God's perfect plan for the redemption of all of the peoples of the earth has not been changed as suggested in the OP, nor does the presented timeline of God actually reflect the timeline of God's plan for the redemption of the whole earth and the people in it.

    Shalom
     
  4. marks

    marks Well-Known Member

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    Hi H.Richard,

    While I'd be tempted to fiddle with a couple of things here and there, for the most part, yeah. And I think your post here, taken together with what Enoch wrote,

    We see this played out in both prophecy and in doctrine. (I'd be tempted to fiddle with a couple of his words too. :oops: )

    Much love!
     
  5. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    The problem with timeline interpretations about matters of God, is He is the same yesterday, today, and forever. No timeline.

    See the problem here?
     
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  6. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

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    There are many that see it the way you do and I perceive that it is not correct and is a lie. In other words you said what I believe is a lie so I am returning the favor. Thanks for your views.

    The Pharisees said Jesus was a liar too so I suppose we are in good company.
     
  7. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

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    Thanks. I did the best I could in a short notice. It can, I am sure, be made more clear.
     
    marks likes this.
  8. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

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    No problem, you just refuse to believe that God is sovereign. You want to put Him in a box.

    Deut 29:29
    29 "The secret things belong to the Lord our God, but those things which are revealed belong to us and to our children forever, that we may do all the words of this law.
    NKJV

    It seems that there are those that don't want people to see that their WAS an age of God dealing with the Jews under the Law of Moses and NOW< NOW< NOW, He deals with mankind based on their faith in His finished work on the cross.
     
  9. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    So then you are saying that people only do good or help other people based on "faith in the finished work on the cross?" So if somebody is in need I can only help them by telling them to have "faith in His finished work on the cross?" Do you think actually helping them is "a false gospel salvation of works?" :eek:

    When Jesus says...when I was naked you clothed me...when I was thirsty you gave me to drink...is this not to be as the Samaritan in the parable...to love others as ourselves? Did the Samaritan somehow have faith in a future finished work on the cross? Or maybe that Samaritan believed in a false gospel of works?

    Do people only help Jesus, even without even knowing it's Him...because of faith in His finished work on the cross?

    Or are you so indoctrinated that you have to keep making new threads so that you can repeat over and over....faith in the finished work on the cross...like a kind of mindless and heartless magic mantra that though meaningless in itself (since the devil also believes in the finished work on the cross)...when repeated enough times it actually starts to be ingrained in the mind as having salvific properties? Just say..."faith in His finished work on the cross"...over and over again...until you feel saved?

    But isn't that a lot of work?
     
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  10. ScottA

    ScottA Well-Known Member

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    You have it backwards.

    It is not God, but man who is in a box...and you who seem to prefer it that way.

    I prefer to be out of any such box as God is, and as He has intended even for us. This is the kingdom of God which came upon men 2000 years ago, when He came to set the captives free. But men went back to the world and its ways.

    But I speak of God and His ways which are not of this world (that exist for a time, times, and half a time on a timeline), and you accuse me of the very thing that you yourself are doing.

    The world and its timeline of ages is not life. One must be born out of it. The world is merely what is written of His death and resurrection. When the world (that "box" of yours) ends, life begins.
     
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  11. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    H. Richard, I addressed what you posted. Your response was to just address me and not define what you perceived/saw as the "lie" that I had presented. Because I had said that the notion that the Jews were scattered to the four corners of the earth because of their rejection of Christ was a lie and then presented my argument, admittedly without scriptures to confirm what I had posted, the reasons why the Israelites were scattered to the four corners of the earth because of their idolatrous practices you responded by saying that you were returning the favour by saying that what I had posted was lie without any rational reasoning as to why you believe that is so.

    Shalom
     
  12. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

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    You don't need to say what I believe because you never get it right.

    I say what I say and anyone can read it for themselves.
     
  13. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

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    You can't make a reply without using the word YOU can you. Since I do not want to argue by making it personal I replace the word you with some or many but it seems there are some and many that just can't do that because there pride in wanting it to seem they have a greater knowledge.

    You and I have always disagreed so it is nothing new to me.
     
  14. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

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    I said what """"I""" believe and you said what """I""" believe is a lie. It seems that most can not make a reply without saying a person has lied etc.

    (QUOTE="Jay Ross, post: 588934, member: 4077") The lie that I perceive in your OP(QUOTE)

    It seems that some will personally attack what others believe in order to elevate their pride over others. They just can't say what they believe.
     
  15. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

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    They just can't resist trying to make themselves a pest.
     
  16. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    What you are saying is that we can safely ignore the words of Jesus Christ...and turn to a fantasy concocted by a misunderstanding of Paul...just as Peter warned that many would do.
     
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  17. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

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    What you are saying is that Paul was wrong and we are under what Jesus said to the Jews who were under the Law of Moses.

    Do you really want to play this game? Just say the timeline you wish and see how many agree with it.
     
  18. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    What I'm saying is that you misunderstand what Paul was saying. He didn't have a different gospel, he preached the kingdom of God just as Peter did...and Jesus did. But according to the power that Jesus' finished work (including His resurrection) affords.

    What the death and resurrection of Jesus did to the gospel is give it POWER to transform our lives so that they actually conform to the holiness requirement of the kingdom. It is God's kingdom and we are to be perfect and holy as God is. So then the gospel of the kingdom is ACCORDING to the power (grace) of God.

    What it didn't do is to make a new gospel.
     
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  19. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Well-Known Member

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    @H. Richard I know that I did not provide the scriptural proofs that Israel was scattered to the four compass points of the earth because of their idolatrous worship of idols, but here are three witnesses from the OT which prophetically speaks of the scattering of Israel that took place in 70 AD. In the three passages quoted below there is no mention that the scattering was because Israel had rejected Christ and had Him crucified as you have suggested in the OP of this thread.

    Sadly, you are not the only one of this forum who repeats this particular lie.

    Deuteronomy 4:25-31: -


    25 "When you beget children and grandchildren and have grown old in the land, and act corruptly and make a carved image in the form of anything, and do evil in the sight of the Lord your God to provoke Him to anger, 26 I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that you will soon utterly perish from the land which you cross over the Jordan to possess; you will not prolong your days in it, but will be utterly destroyed. 27 And the Lord will scatter you among the peoples, and you will be left few in number among the nations where the Lord will drive you. 28 And there you will serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see nor hear nor eat nor smell. 29 But from there you will seek the Lord your God, and you will find Him if you seek Him with all your heart and with all your soul. 30 When you are in distress, and all these things come upon you in the latter days, when you turn to the Lord your God and obey His voice 31 (for the Lord your God is a merciful God), He will not forsake you nor destroy you, nor forget the covenant of your fathers which He swore to them.

    Nehemiah 1:4-11: -

    4 So it was, when I heard these words, that I sat down and wept, and mourned for many days; I was fasting and praying before the God of heaven.

    5 And I said: "I pray, Lord God of heaven, O great and awesome God, You who keep Your covenant and mercy with those who love You and observe Your commandments, 6 please let Your ear be attentive and Your eyes open, that You may hear the prayer of Your servant which I pray before You now, day and night, for the children of Israel Your servants, and confess the sins of the children of Israel which we have sinned against You. Both my father's house and I have sinned. 7 We have acted very corruptly against You, and have not kept the commandments, the statutes, nor the ordinances which You commanded Your servant Moses. 8 Remember, I pray, the word that You commanded Your servant Moses, saying,'If you are unfaithful, I will scatter you among the nations; 9 but if you return to Me, and keep My commandments and do them, though some of you were cast out to the farthest part of the heavens, yet I will gather them from there, and bring them to the place which I have chosen as a dwelling for My name.' 10 Now these are Your servants and Your people, whom You have redeemed by Your great power, and by Your strong hand. 11 O Lord, I pray, please let Your ear be attentive to the prayer of Your servant, and to the prayer of Your servants who desire to fear Your name; and let Your servant prosper this day, I pray, and grant him mercy in the sight of this man."

    Ezekiel 6:1-10: -

    6:1 Now the word of the Lord came to me, saying: 2 "Son of man, set your face toward the mountains of Israel, and prophesy against them, 3 and say, 'O mountains of Israel, hear the word of the Lord God! Thus says the Lord God to the mountains, to the hills, to the ravines, and to the valleys: "Indeed I, even I, will bring a sword against you, and I will destroy your high places. 4 Then your altars shall be desolate, your incense altars shall be broken, and I will cast down your slain men before your idols. 5 And I will lay the corpses of the children of Israel before their idols, and I will scatter your bones all around your altars. 6 In all your dwelling places the cities shall be laid waste, and the high places shall be desolate, so that your altars may be laid waste and made desolate, your idols may be broken and made to cease, your incense altars may be cut down, and your works may be abolished. 7 The slain shall fall in your midst, and you shall know that I am the Lord.

    8 "Yet I will leave a remnant, so that you may have some who escape the sword among the nations, when you are scattered through the countries. 9 Then those of you who escape will remember Me among the nations where they are carried captive, because I was crushed by their adulterous heart which has departed from Me, and by their eyes which play the harlot after their idols; they will loathe themselves for the evils which they committed in all their abominations. 10 And they shall know that I am the Lord; I have not said in vain that I would bring this calamity upon them."

    I know I said: -
    Now can you provide the scriptural support for your claim?

    Shalom
     
  20. H. Richard

    H. Richard Well-Known Member

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    Jay, God had other nations to chastise Israel for their idol worship in the OT. They were carried away by them. In all those times the Jewish Temple was destroyed.

    However, God did not set them aside and turn to the Gentiles for about 2000 years as He did when they, Israel, crucified God's Son.

    I stated what I believe and it seems you have a different opinion. That is okay. But It doesn't make your opinion greater than mine.

    You say my opinion is a lie. I didn't say that about yours, I did not say you are lying. But you get off on saying things like that to others. You are arrogant in your pride and it is obvious that you love to stroke it in your replies to other. That is why I try to avoid replying to anything you write and I think others are avoiding it too. IMHO, you do not display any of the fruits of the Spirit.

    Gal 5:22-25
    22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
    23 gentleness, self-control.
    Against such there is no law.
    24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
    25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
    NKJV

    There are many on forums just like you so maybe that will comfort you.
     
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