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Featured The prophetic visions in Daniel’s prophecy

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Enoch111, Nov 3, 2018.

  1. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    The book of Daniel is full of visions, just like all the other prophetic books. What makes Daniel unique is that his visions go from the Babylonian captivity to the eternal Kingdom of God under Christ. The theme of the first vision is repeated throughout. For those who deny that Christ will set up His literal, physical, visible, and tangible Kingdom on earth, a close study of Daniel is a necessity.

    NEBUCHADNEZZAR’S DREAMS INTERPRETED BY DANIEL (chapter 2)
    The “great image” seen by Nebuchadnezzar represented the ancient world empires and ended with the Kingdom of God over the whole earth.

    Head of fine gold = Babylonian empire
    Breast and arms of silver = Medo-Persian empire
    Belly and thighs of brass = Graeco-Macedonian empire
    Legs of iron = Roman empire
    Feet of iron and clay = Antichrist’s kingdom
    Stone cut out without hands = Christ who destroys all the kingdoms of the world and sets up the literal, visible Kingdom of God on earth.

    Nebuchadnezzar’s second dream (chapter 4) deals with the humbling and restoration of Nebuchadnezzar himself.


    DANIEL’S VISION OF FOUR GREAT BEASTS (chapter 7)
    A lion with eagles wings = Babylonian empire
    A bear with three ribs in its mouth = Medo-Persian empire
    A leopard with four wings and four heads = Graeco-Macedonian empire
    A terrible beast with great iron teeth = Roman empire
    The ten horns and another little horn = Antichrist’s kingdom
    The kingdom given to the saints = Christ’s everlasting kingdom on earth

    DANIEL’S VISION OF THE RAM AND THE HE-GOAT (chapter 8)
    The ram = Medo-Persian empire
    The he-goat = Graeco-Macedonian empire
    Four horns from the he-goat = Four division of Alexander’s empire
    The little horn = Antichrist’s kingdom
    The destruction of the Antichrist by Christ

    DANIEL’S VISION OF THE PRE-INCARNATE CHRIST (chapters 10 & 11)
    Perhaps many Christians are not aware that Daniel had a vision of the pre-incarnate Christ which corresponds to John's vision in the book of Revelation, and ties the two books together.

    1. The appearance of Christ as also seen in Revelation:
    a. Clothed with linen (a garment down to the foot)
    b. Loins girded with fine gold (golden girdle)
    c. Body like the beryl
    d. Face as lightning (countenance as the sun shineth in its strength)
    e. Eyes as lamps of fire (eyes as a flame of fire)
    f. Arms and feet like polished brass (feet like fine brass within a furnace)
    g. Voice like the voice of a multitude (voice as the sound of many waters)
    h. “An hand touched me” (“He laid his right hand upon me”)
    i. Daniel told to stand upright and “fear not” (John told “fear not”)

    2. Future conflicts prophesied:
    a. Four kings of Persia to arise
    b. Alexander to conquer Persia
    c. Alexander’s empire to be split into four
    d. Conflicts between the successors of Alexander
    e. The rise of the Antichrist and his conflicts
     
  2. Keraz

    Keraz Active Member

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    The Prophesies of Daniel

    Daniel 2:20-22 Blessed be the Lord’s Name [Jesus] from age to age, for to Him belong wisdom and power. He changes seasons and times, He deposes and sets up kings. He gives wisdom

    to the wise and knowledge to those with discernment, revealing deep mysteries: in Him there is light and understanding. Proverbs 8:12-29

    Daniel 2:31-33 In your dream, your majesty, you saw a great image. The head of the image was of fine gold, its chest and arms of silver, its belly and thighs of bronze, its legs of iron and its feet of part iron, part clay.



    The Assyrian Kingdom – [Sargon]

    Daniel 7:4 The first beast was like a lion with eagles wings, then its wings were removed and it stood on two feet like a human. It was given the mind of a human.

    [This kingdom had already passed by the time of Nebuchadnezzar’s dream. It conquered and sent into exile the ten Northern tribes of Israel]



    The Babylonian Kingdom – [Nebuchadnezzar]

    Daniel 2:38 You king Nebuchadnezzar, are that head of gold.

    Daniel 7:5 The second beast was like a bear, it raised itself up on one side and it had three ribs in its mouth. The command was given: Get up and gorge yourself on flesh. [The Babylonian conquest of Judah]



    The Media/Persian Kingdom [King Cyrus]

    Daniel 2:32 & 39a...its chest and arms of silver...After you another kingdom will arise that will be inferior to yours

    Daniel 8:3-4 & 20 The ram with two horns, Persia and Media.



    The Macedonian [Greek] Kingdom. [Alexander the Great]

    Daniel 2:32 & 39b ...its belly and thighs of bronze....Next a third kingdom of bronze will rule over the whole earth.

    Daniel 7:6 The third beast was like a leopard with four wings like a bird, it had four heads and was given authority to rule. [Alexander’s conquest of the known world]

    Daniel 8:5-8 & 20-21 The defeat of the Babylonian Empire, by Alexander. Daniel 11:2

    Daniel 8:9-14 & 22 After Alexander’s death, four kingdoms are formed.

    Daniel 11:3-4 One of those kings, Antiochus Epiphanes, succeeded in conquering the holy Land and he desecrated the Temple. 2 Maccabees 5:13-20 Then Judas Maccabaeus defeated him. 2 Maccabees 8:16-24 Then they rededicated the Temple. 2 Maccabees 10:1-8 The 2300 evenings and mornings; actually 1150 days, was the time between the desecration and rededication of the Temple, circa 167BC to 164BC. This is a precursor to what will happen in the last days.

    Daniel 11:5-20 This is a description of other historical battles and alliances.



    The Roman Empire – [Julius Caesar]

    Daniel 2:32-33 & 40 Finally there will be a fourth kingdom, strong as iron, it will dominate all the others, but as its legs represent, this will be a divided kingdom – its people will be a mixture, it will not remain united. [The Western and Eastern Roman Empires]

    Daniel 7:7a & 23 The fourth beast, fearsome and very powerful with great iron teeth, crushed and devoured its victims, then trampled what was left.

    Daniel 9:26 After sixty two weeks, [434 years] the anointed Prince, [Jesus] will be removed and the army [of Rome] will destroy the city and the Temple. [As fulfilled in 70AD.]



    A Last Days resurgence of Rome – [the Anti Christ]

    Daniel 2:33 & 42-43...its feet of part iron and part clay....

    Daniel 7:7b-8 ... the fourth beast had ten horns, another horn grew up and uprooted three of the ten. That other horn was very imposing and spoke with great power. As I watched this horn waged war on the holy ones and defeated them. Rev 17:12-13, Rev 13:5-8

    Daniel 7:23-24 The explanation is this: This fourth kingdom will take over the whole earth, [The One World Government] The ten horns signify the ten divisions of the world, but another man will arise and defeat three of the first leaders.

    Daniel 11:21 Another king will come, a person not worthy of recognition, but he will seize power by intrigue and cunning. [a clever and charismatic man]

    Daniel 8:23-25 In the last days, when sin is at its height, a powerful king and a master of strategy will arise. He will succeed in whatever he does and will take control of the nations and the holy people. [all the faithful Christians, gathered in all of the holy Land] By cunning and deceit, he will destroy many when they felt secure and did not expect it. He will challenge the ‘Prince of princes’, [the Lord] yet he will be defeated, but not by human hand.

    Daniel 9:27 The prince, [The world leader, descended from Rome] will make a treaty with many, [that is: not all of the Christians] for one week, [that is: seven years] but at the mid point, he will put a stop to the sacrifices and offerings. [in the new Temple] He will place an ‘abomination’ there, then in the end what has been decreed will come on him.

    Daniel 7:25 He will defy God and take control of the holy people for 3½ years. [This is the ‘beast’ of Revelation 13:1-8. The One World leader receives a ‘mortal blow’ and his body is taken over by Satan, commencing the ‘forty two months’ Tribulation period]

    Daniel 11:22-45 His army will be victorious and a leader of the Covenant people will be killed. The military forces of the South will be defeated and he will invade the Middle East, but ships of the Western nations will oppose him, so he will turn back. In the holy Land, he will vent his fury against the people who hold to the Covenant, but will show favour to those who forsake it by believing his promises. His soldiers will desecrate the Temple, setting up an ‘abomination of desolation’. Those of the Lord’s people [Christians] who remain faithful to the Lord, will be resolute and take action. Wise leaders of the nation will guide their people, though for a time some may be killed or captured. They will receive a little help, as many who join them are insincere. This is a period of testing, of refining and purification, for the end is yet to be; at the appointed time. Daniel 7:9, Daniel 8:22, Rev. 13:8

    Daniel 11:36-45 This powerful world ruler will do as he pleases, he will promote himself as god, uttering terrible blasphemies. Things will go well for him until the time of wrath is completed. [The Tribulation] Near the end, the leader of a Southern confederation will attempt to attack him, so he storms out in full force, sweeping all before him, including the holy Land. He will take control of all Arabia and take their treasure. Then, alarmed by rumours from the North and East, he will hurriedly go back to Israel and camp in the valley of Megiddo, where he will meet his end. Daniel 7:11, Revelation 19:17-21



    The Kingdom of Jesus2 Samuel 22:32

    Daniel 2:34-35 & 44-45 I saw a supernatural Rock that smashed the statue, it blew it away like chaff. Then that Rock became a huge mountain that filled the whole earth. God will set up a Kingdom that will be supreme over all other kingdoms and it will endure forever.

    Daniel 7:13-14 & 26-27 The Return of Jesus for His Millennium reign. Gods judgement is against the Anti Christ and his kingdom is abolished. The governance of the whole world is given to the holy people of God. Revelation 20:6

    Daniel 12:1-4 At the end of that time, [the Tribulation] Michael, the Archangel of Israel will appear, he will deliver the Lord’s people – everyone whose name is written in the Book of Life. Many of the dead will rise, some to eternal life, some to eternal abhorrence. The wise leaders, those who guided the people on the true path, will shine like stars forever.

    But you, Daniel, keep this book sealed until the time of the end. Many will try, but will not succeed to gain this knowledge.

    Daniel 12:5-10 I asked: How long until the end of these things? It will be for 3½ years, [1260 days] when the holy people regain their strength. I asked: What will the outcome of all this be? Go your way, Daniel, for these prophesies are to be kept secret until the time of the end. Many people will be purified and made righteous, but the godless will keep on in their wickedness and none of them will understand. Daniel 8:22

    Daniel 12:11-12 From the time the Anti Christ sets up the ‘abomination of desolation’, there will be 1290 days. Blessed are those who see the completion of 1335 days!
    Reference: REB, NIV, KJV. some verses condensed.


    THE PAST AGES: the first 5 seals were opened, the 4 horsemen released and persecution started, from the murder of Abel until the Return. Zechariah 1:10, Matthew 23:35

    THE PRESENT DAY: Wars, rumours of wars, natural disasters, economic problems, food shortages, overpopulation, false teaching, etc, etc. Matthew 24:4-8, 2 Timothy 3:1-4 This is the last year of the exile of the Northern ten tribes of Israel.
     
  3. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Active Member

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    Hello

    The tradition of men's understanding prevails and the misunderstanding of Daniel's prophetic record hides God' truth from us.

    We cannot read Daniel without reading the other Prophetic books written and recorded in the OT cannon to bring the End Times into its proper perspective.

    The above two posts are missing some very important information which fills in the blanks for us.

    Like, the Third beast rises up after the death of Alexandra the Great. The little Horn exercises control over the Third beast to trample the Sanctuary of God, to go up against the prince of God and to lead the king of the north in this present day to gather all the kings of the earth to go into the Land at Armageddon.

    The Little Horn Beast in cahoots with the fourth beast is also speaking out great things against God and in our near future the four beasts, the Little Horn and Satan will be judged and dislodged from Heaven to come down to the earth where they will be gathered together with the Kings of the earth and imprisoned in the Bottomless Pit for a 1,000 year period before they will be released once more just before their final judgement is metered out against them.

    Shalom

    PS: - The Daniel 2 statue prophecy is about kings and kingdom or empires that exercise dominion over the land of the Chaldeans.
    The Daniel 7 Beast prophecy is about the wicked fallen hosts / winds of heavenly which exercise their characteristic dominions over the peoples of the earth such that the beasts manifest out of the great seas.
     
  4. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Active Member

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    There's so much that can be said here, so I will make the limited post.

    The statue is Mystery Babylon, from ancient Babylon to the AC empire of Revelations, the restored roman empire/EU.

    The beast that rises out of the sea(people) is the demon of the anti Christ. The one out of the Pit is the demon of the false prophet. The dragon cast down from heaven is Satan, who enters the AOD.

    Revelation 16:13
    Then I saw three impure spirits that looked like frogs; they came out of the mouth of the dragon, out of the mouth of the beast and out of the mouth of the false prophet.
     
  5. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Active Member

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    Yep and we saw that portion of the scriptures fulfilled in our recent past. The King of the North is now drawing all of the other kings of the earth to go with him to Armageddon and that will happen in our near future at the end of this present age of the ages of the Age.
     
  6. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    @Enoch111 G'day mate. Your initial presentation and explanation of Daniel 2 statue, and Daniel 7 and 8 beasts is spot on, except for one thing which I believe trips you up and blinds you to a much clearer understanding of prophecy, and where our current position is within the prophetic timeline.
    What you have done, in keeping with others of your dispensational mindset, is to arbitrarily place that gap after pagan Rome. You create a gap in the legs, where no gap exists. You place a gap in the appearance of the horns, where no gap exists. You place a gap in Daniel 8 between the head and the horn, where no gap exists. If you leave the gap aside, for which there is no reasonable Biblical foundation for, the prophecies perfectly align with history. The gap effectually ignores 1500 years of essential history which reveals the true understanding of the prophecies.
    For example, the iron and clay feet of the statue must remain attached to the legs. There is no reason to amputate the feet in order for it to fit the prophetic narrative...unless of course one is already predisposed to placing everything that pertains to that imagery into the future; but by doing so the papacy and protestant reformation for example find no place in prophecy. Did God not know about such things when He spoke through Daniel in the statue? He certainly knew about them when He gave Daniel 11.
    Then take Daniel 7 and the fourth beast. You have ripped out all ten horns and try to place them in a future...yet have to explain that they somehow grow out of a revived Roman empire in order to justify the natural attachment of the horns to the head. But why do this when there is a perfect historical record that attests to barbarian tribes carving up the old empire 3 of which were uprooted through the political connivings of the papacy while the rest survived and now form what we know as modern Europe?
    Then we move on to Daniel 8, where you have the little horn suddenly becoming the antichrist, which you need to place in the past, because the horn grew out of the Grecian era. So some dispensationalists cite Nero or come other emperor, others Antiochus, but in reality none of it makes sense, unless you continue with the historicist mindset as I outlined for Daniel 2 and 7. Then there are no gaps, no hiding of history, no sidelining essential history and a clearer perception of where we stand on the prophetic timeline. Oh yes, and clear unmistakable identification of who truly is the little horn, and the king of the north etc.
     
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  7. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    ah, or iow me as an adult
    or me as regenerated :)
     
  8. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Active Member

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    If
    Russian is the king of the north. Gor, its ally in the invasion, is Germany.

    The AC/EU/revived roman empire will not be an ally. Nor will be the U.S. or China.

    Russia and its Allies will be crushed when they try to invade Israel.

    The AC is the leader for Armageddon, which is at a minimum over seven years away.

    10. The King Of The North
     
  9. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    word
     
  10. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Active Member

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    Truth/word, no problem.
     
  11. Jay Ross

    Jay Ross Active Member

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    Really, So the three evil and foul frog like spirits went out to Russia to begin the process of drawing all of the kings of the earth towards Armageddon? I think that if you reflect on world history, they went out to another country to do their signs and wonders that was able to beam the event unfolding to the whole earth.

    Now the author of your link has been wrong for so long now that there are people who actually believe him because of his persistence.
     
  12. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    The gap is the Church Age or the Gospel Age. It was not a part of Daniel's prophecies. But the Olivet Discourse (Matthew 24) as well as the book of Revelation makes it perfectly clear that there is a gap between Daniel's 69th and 70th weeks.
     
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  13. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Well that clearly puts an individualistic spiritual spin of this. But if it helps, why not?
     
  14. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    Can you explain that in more detail please? Personally, I cannot see why more recent prophecy should contradict the older ones. I think you said yourself somewhere that the prophecies of Daniel started in chapter two with the skeleton, and proceeding chapters filled in the flesh and sinews to complete the picture. A gap completely rearranges that picture, and destroys everything h that previous Bible scholars had more or less agreed on... In fact it changes the whole hermeneutic of prophecy.
     
  15. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    There are several good reasons to interpret "the little horn" as the Antichrist. When we consider that Palestine continued under Rome but with connections to Alexander's successors -- the Ptolemies and the Seleucids -- then the connection with Greece becomes clear. The Antichrist will be a renegade Jews from the former Grecian and Roman empires.

    DANIEL 8
    8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
    9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.
    10 And it waxed great, even to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and of the stars to the ground, and stamped upon them.
    11 Yea, he magnified himself even to the prince of the host, and by him the daily sacrifice was taken away, and the place of his sanctuary was cast down.
    12 And an host was given him against the daily sacrifice by reason of transgression, and it cast down the truth to the ground; and it practised, and prospered.

    The key verses here are 10 and 11. "The host of heaven" and "the stars" are angelic beings. It would appear that this is a reference to the war in the heavens between Satan and Michael -- "the prince of the host" -- and their respective armies of angels (Rev 12). And the Antichrist is a man possessed and controlled by Satan (as soon as Satan is cast down to the earth).

    Next we have this verse:
    And in the latter time of their kingdom, when the transgressors are come to the full, a king of fierce countenance, and understanding dark sentences, shall stand up. (v 23)

    This corresponds to the Beast who is a king of fierce countenance
    And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion (Rev 13:2)

    Next we have this verse:
    And his power shall be mighty, but not by his own power: and he shall destroy wonderfully, and shall prosper, and practise, and shall destroy the mighty and the holy people. (v 24).

    This corresponds to Revelation 13 (the entire chapter) and 2 Thess 2:9. "And not by his own power" is the key since it is really Satan's power behind this man, who will do miracles before the world while he wages war against the Tribulation saints:
    Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders...

    Next we have this verse:
    And through his policy also he shall cause craft to prosper in his hand; and he shall magnify himself in his heart, and by peace shall destroy many: he shall also stand up against the Prince of princes [CHRIST]; but he shall be broken without hand. (v 25)

    This corresponds to 2 Thess 2:3,4,9:
    Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God...

    Why is he called "the Antichrist"? Because he opposes Christ "the Prince of princes" and at the same time claims to be God and Christ while blaspheming God.

     
  16. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    May I offer my own version of Daniel 7 and 8? I see the whole scenario somewhat differently, and thus come to a much different conclusion.

    That said, let us settle on what nearly all Bible scholars agree as to what Daniel 2 represents.
    Daniel 2:30-45.
    The head of gold is clearly identified as the kingdom of Babylon (626-539BC) in verse 38. From history we know that the other 3 kingdoms following Babylon were Media-Persia (539-331BC), Greece (331-168BC) , and Rome (168BC-476AD). Although the Roman empire ruled longer than the other 3 kingdoms put together, it was not succeeded by a fifth world power but was divided up into kingdoms of varying strength, symbolised by the feet of iron and clay, just as the prophecy predicted. These are the nations that make up modern Europe, nations that, to this day, exist as separate national political entities.

    The Bible makes it plain that the stone represents Jesus Christ (Isa. 28:16; 1 Cor. 10:4; Luke 20:17,18.) Who at His second advent will destroy all the other kingdoms and establish an everlasting kingdom.

    Daniel 7 and 8 compliment one another, and give added impetus and detail to Daniel 2. I will deal with both 7 and 8 together, in order to make it easier to see the parallels.
    Daniel 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.
    4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings:….

    Here is the first beast representing the first of 4 world empires, Babylon, as also revealed as the head of gold in Daniel 2. Another very sound principle when interpreting scripture, is to take all scripture language literally, unless there exists some good reason for supposing it to be figurative; and all that is figurative is to be interpreted by that which is literal. That the language here is symbolic is evident when considering verse 17 These great beasts, which are four, are four kings, which shall arise out of the earth.
    That the intention is to show kingdoms and not just individual kings is also evident by the appearance of beasts. Much as modern nations do today, U.S. the eagle; Russia the bear; N.Z. the Kiwi; Aust. the wallaby.etc. Verses 38 and 39 reveal that the first kingdom is Babylon, which rose to power through war and conquest. When Daniel mentioned in verse 2 the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea, this is symbolic language representing war and strife amongst nations. (Rev.17:15; Isaiah 17:12,13; Jer. 51:1; Jer. 25:32,33.)
    [/i]
    It is to be noted that all the beasts are predatory, in keeping with the above symbolism. And the wings it can be assumed represent speed. (Deut. 28:49; Jer. 4:13; Habakkuk 1:6-9).
    The wings were plucked from the lion, thus no longer was it the threat it formerly offered to her enemies. A man’s heart was given to it. Babylon in later years had become timorous, effeminate, and a pleasure seeking society without discipline.

    Daniel 7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

    Daniel 8:3 Then I lifted up mine eyes, and saw, and, behold, there stood before the river a ram which had two horns: and the two horns were high; but one was higher than the other, and the higher came up last.
    4 I saw the ram pushing westward, and northward, and southward; so that no beasts might stand before him, neither was there any that could deliver out of his hand; but he did according to his will, and became great.

    Daniel 8:20 identifies the ram as being Medo-Persia, thus the ram and the bear represent the same power. The bear raised itself up on one side – indicating the more prominent role of the Medes at the beginning of their rise to power, the individual kings being Ahasuerus and his son, Darius.This is also represented by the two horns, with one coming up higher last.
    Just as silver is inferior to gold, and the bear inferior to the lion, so was Medo-Persia inferior to Babylon in regards to wealth and brilliance of career. However, the area of conquest was greater than Babylon.
    The ribs in the bear’s mouth represent the 3 provinces of Babylon that the Medes and Persians conquered: Lydia, Egypt, and Babylon. The ram pushed west, north, and south, precisely where the 3 above provinces were.
    Cyrus was the Persian king that rose to prominence represented by the horn that rose up higher. It was Cyrus spoken of and named 150 years previously by Isaiah as the leader that would overthrow Babylon. (There are many parallels with Revelation and the drying up of the Euphrates thus cutting off Babylon’s support in the last days, just as Cyrus did to the literal city. This is spiritual Babylon, and the Euphrates is also figurative for the means of support that the people of the earth withhold (Rev.18)when made aware of her corruption.Rev. 16:12 . As Cyrus came from the east to conquer Babylon, so also will Christ come from the east as King of Kings and Lord of Lords.)

    Daniel 7:6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.
    Daniel 8:5 And as I was considering, behold, an he goat came from the west on the face of the whole earth, and touched not the ground: and the goat had a notable horn between his eyes.
    6 And he came to the ram that had two horns, which I had seen standing before the river, and ran unto him in the fury of his power.
    7 And I saw him come close unto the ram, and he was moved with choler against him, and smote the ram, and brake his two horns: and there was no power in the ram to stand before him, but he cast him down to the ground, and stamped upon him: and there was none that could deliver the ram out of his hand.
    8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.

    To be continued.....
     
  17. brakelite

    brakelite Well-Known Member

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    Continuing....

    The leopard represents Greece, and Alexander the Great is the first king, the ‘notable’ horn between the goat’s eyes.
    As Babylon was noted for her speed of conquest, so Alexander even more so, hence the 4 wings. At the height of his power Alexander died, some say of alcohol poisoning, at the young age of about 30. The Grecian kingdom was then ruled briefly by Alexander’s brother and his 2 infant sons, but they were all soon murdered and after 22 years of warring and infighting among a number of generals who had all dispersed to various parts of the empire and assumed authority and declared themselves kings, the number was reduced to just 4, as depicted by the 4 heads of the leopard and the four horns of the goat. The generals were Cassander, Seleucus, Ptolemy, and Lysimachus.
    It will be noted that as the ram (Medo-Persia) in Daniel 8:4 is shown to have become great, so the goat (Greece) in Daniel 8:8 ‘waxed very great’. In area conquered this was very true; Greece had overcome vastly more area than had the previous empire, however, just as the leopard is inferior to the bear, and bronze is inferior to silver, so the character of the empire was inferior to Medo-Persia. Paganism was developing among these empires and growing as they grew. Each empire also inherited certain traits, traditions, and practices from it’s predecessors. Thus each kingdom grew progressively worse morally and spiritually.

    Before I deal with the horn of the goat, I’d like to briefly recap on something from the image of Daniel 2 and stress something that is very important.
    What we know of the image is that there are just 4 kingdoms or empires from the beginning of Babylon to the second coming. These four are destroyed by the rock of Christ at His coming.
    That means 2 things.
    1. That in some form or another they are in existence today (all four!), and will be until Jesus comes.
    How do I know this? By the beast that rises from the sea in Revelation 13. (And remember beasts are kingdoms). In this beast there is a remnant of each of the 4 beasts we see here in Daniel. And it is that particular beast that is destroyed and thrown into the lake of fire. This can be easily explained by the fact that the pagan belief system of Babylon was inherited by all the following powers, was developed further and will be perfected into a Christian counterfeit at the end that will deceive most of the world. But more on that later.
    2. The iron begins from the victory over the Greeks, and continues unbroken (albeit in another form) right to the end. In other words, there is no gap in history- no “revived” Roman empire that is yet to come. Rome is still with us today, there has never been any full or conclusive end to the Roman empire as yet.

    To continue with the goat of Daniel 8. We have discovered that the goat represented Greece, that the great horn was it’s first king, Alexander, and that when he died , after some conflict and debate, 4 kings ruled in his stead.


    8 Therefore the he goat waxed very great: and when he was strong, the great horn was broken; and for it came up four notable ones toward the four winds of heaven.
    9 And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

    There are however a total of six horns that grow out of the he-goat , and it is to the 6th that we will now focus our attention.
    This ‘little horn’ was to exceed the greatness of all the preceding horns. Media/Persia “became great” (Daniel 8:4); The he-goat itself was to wax “very great”, (Daniel 8:8), but this little horn was to grow and become “exceeding great”.( Daniel 8:9). It is claimed by many, in fact it has almost become standard belief in modern Christian thought, that Antiochus Epiphanes is represented by this little horn. This is based solely on his persecution of the Jews and the desecration of the temple, as is presumed to have taken place upon a reading of the ensuing verses. The problem however is that Antiochus does not meet the requirements of any other specific in the prophecy. (Some refer to him as being the fulfilment of the little horn that grows out of the fourth beast in Daniel 7 also.)
    This is particularly popular with the preterist position, but to insist upon this understanding is to wrest the scripture from it’s historical setting, for an important point to note is that the 4th beast reaches to the end of time, and is destroyed at the second coming. The view that Antiochus is the little horn restricts the entire book of Daniel to the period of time before Christianity was established.

    Let me in detail give my reasons why I believe Antiochus cannot be the little horn of Daniel 7.
    a. Antiochus does not rise after 10 kings. He was the 8th king in the Syrian line of Seleucid kings. Besides, the prophecy calls for 10 kingdoms to exist contemporaneously, not successively.
    b. Antiochus belonged to the 3rd empire (Greece) in actual historical sequence from Daniel’s time.
    c. He was not ‘diverse’ from any other king.
    d. He did not ‘pluck up’ 3 other kings.
    e. He was not ‘stouter’ than his fellows. His father was known as Antiochus the Great, not Epiphanes.
    f. He did not prevail until the end of time, the judgment.
    g. The kingdom following was Rome, not the kingdom of the saints.

    Reasons why Antiochus cannot be the little horn of Daniel 8.
    a. Antiochus was not a horn in his own right. He was of the Seleucid line therefore was a part of one of the four.
    b. He did not wax exceeding great. In fact his father was greater, but neither was as great as even Babylon or Media Persia, certainly no greater than Alexander. Yet the prophecy demands that the little horn be greater than any empire before it.
    c. He does not fit the time periods. According to Maccabees 1:54,59, and 4:52 Antiochus suppressed the sacrifices exactly 3 years. This fits neither the 1260 days , (times time and half a time,) nor the 2300 days (evenings and mornings of Daniel 8:14). These figures do not compliment one another NOR do they meet the reign of Antiochus.
    d. The 2300 days is prophetic. Using the day/year principle established elsewhere as being the standard and norm for interpreting prophetic time periods, it is a literal 2300 years.

    Therefore,
    And out of one of them came forth a little horn, which waxed exceeding great, toward the south, and toward the east, and toward the pleasant land.

    can only refer to the empire of Rome, and thus is the Daniel 8 parallel to not just the 4th beast of Daniel 7
    7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

    … but also the iron legs of the statue of Daniel 2. See how each prophecy repeats and enlarges upon the preceding prophecy?

    I could continue with a from of the ten horns and how the little horn that rises among them is the completion of final manifestation of the horn of chapter 8 .
     
  18. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    We have to start with Daniel s prophecy of Seventy Weeks and then go to Matthew 24 to see the connection and the gap.

    DANIEL 9
    23 At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision.
    NOTE: The bolded words indicate the importance of this prophecy.

    24 Seventy weeks (490 years) are determined upon thy people (the Jews) and upon thy holy city, (Jerusalem) to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.
    NOTE: Literally *seventy sevens* or *seventy heptads* = 70 x 7 = 490 years. At the end of this period God will establish everlasting righteousness in Israel and on the earth. This can only be done through Christ after His second coming.

    25 Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: (483 years) the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times .26 And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself:...

    NOTE: This period starts with the commandment of Cyrus of Persia (Ezra 1) to rebuild Jerusalem and ends with the crucifixion of Christ, for a total of 483 years, which leaves 7 years for the future.

    ...and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined.

    NOTE: *The prince that shall come* will be the Antichrist, and *desolations are determined* = the Great Tribulation.

    27 And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

    NOTE: One week = 7 years. *in the midst of the week* = after 3.5 years.
    This was interpreted by Christ as *the Abomination of Desolation* (called *the image of the Beast in Rev 13*) which would *stand in the Holy Place* (within the future temple at Jerusalem) at the end of those 3.5 years and would trigger the Great Tribulation.

    What is critical to understand now is that because the Great Tribulation is a totally unique event -- *such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be* -- it is impossible to claim that Daniel s 70th week was already fulfilled. Which also means that the Antichrist is to come in the future. Which then places a gap between the crucifixion of Christ and the coming of the Antichrist.
     
  19. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    I “take my hat off “ to you guys....all this makes my head ache as I read through it! :)
     
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  20. n2thelight

    n2thelight Well-Known Member

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    Daniel 9:23 "At the beginning of thy supplications the commandment came forth, and I am come to shew thee; for thou art greatly beloved: therefore understand the matter, and consider the vision."

    The angel Gabriel is telling Daniel now to think back to the vision of the seventy weeks, that we read of in verse two.

    Daniel 9:24 "Seventy weeks are determined upon thy People and upon thy holy city, to finesh the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy."

    There are six things that will come to pass before the transgression is completed upon Jerusalem. Then we will see our Lord Jesus Christ coming back to set up His kingdom upon the earth, and the transgressions will be no more.

    Do you see sin around today? Of course; What these things are referring to is the first day of the millennium age. this is looking forward to when the Antichrist has come to earth, and has been cast into the pit.

    It is a time when our Lord Jesus Christ is anointed in the most holy place in Jerusalem, showing the world that Jesus Christ is the only True Christ. The next three verses lets us know there is a difference between the true Christ and the false Christ.

    Daniel 9:25 "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again and the wall, even in troublous times."

    There are four times in history that the starting time of this seventy week period of prophecy could have started. This is what has made this starting date so controversial. During the time of Jewish captivity, four different commandments were issued, for the return to Jerusalem. These were:

    First, was the command of Cyrus to return to rebuild the temple as seen in II Chronicles 36:22-23 and Ezra 1. the date of this command was given in 539 B.C.

    Second, was the command by Darius to advance the construction of the temple, as we see in Ezra 6:1. This command was given in 518 B.C. or in 519 B.C.

    Third, was the command of Artaxerxes to Ezra to purify the temple and reestablish the sacrifices and ordinances. This command is found in Ezra 4:17, and the command was given in 457 B.C.

    Fourth, the command of Artaxerxes to Nehemiah to return to Jerusalem, to rebuild the city streets and walls, to make the city safe from the raids and plundering of the neighboring nations. We read of this in Nehemiah 2:1-9, and this puts this command in 444 B.C.

    In Daniel 9:25 we read, "Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem..." The fourth command in 444 B.C. could be the only starting point for Daniel's seventy week prophecy. All three of the other commands were not relating to the city of Jerusalem, but to the building, finishing, and purification of the temple.

    At the conclusion of the seventy weeks of years, Daniel saw in the vision that certain things would happen. Look ar Daniel 9:24, "... to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy and to anoint the most Holy."

    We know that each of these things above still exist and will exist until the end of the tribulation period. That time of testing for all Israel, and destruction for the rest of the world.

    It is an historical fact that the time to rebuild the streets and walls of Jerusalem was 49 years, exactly as Daniel prophesied in Daniel 9:25. "...from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince (Jesus Christ recognized as the Messiah), shall be seven weeks, three score and two weeks."

    The first seven weeks, then sixty-two more weeks of years were given in the vision of Daniel for the time of the Messiah. This then leaves us one week shy of the total seventy weeks prophesied by Daniel, for the Messiah to come and physically rule over Israel.

    444 B.C. Jerusalem Rebuilt Messiah Messiah


    7 weeks 62 weeks Gap 1 week

    49 years 434 years time of Millennium age

    Gentiles


    there are three separate periods, with a gap between the second period of of 434 years, and the final period of seven years. This gap in the seventy years of weeks prophecy period is what the Apostle Paul calls the time of the Gentiles. In Romans 11:17-24 Paul talked about the time when Gentiles, the wild olive branch, will be grafted onto the good olive tree, the trunk of Abraham. This grafting period, or the gap, is what we now call "the Church age". The time from the resurrection of Jesus Christ, the head of the Church, to the start of the last seven week period, then is the time of grace, and peace that is offered to all.

    Grace is the gift of total forgiveness by God, by simply accepting by faith the price that Jesus Christ's death on the cross, and his resurrection, paid for. For this God offers "peace", and whatever sins were ever committed, are blotted out and covered by the blood of Christ. This is spelled out in John 3:16.

    When we consider the time span from 444 B.C to 33 A.D., and deduct for the fact of the one year between 1 B.C. and 1 A.D., we have a total of 476 solar years. That is 173,855 total solar days. The Jewish calendar year has 360 days to the year, and would show 483 years for the same time frame. (360 days X 483 years equals 173,880 Jewish calendar days.)

    To be accurate, the actual date of the commandment was March 5th of our calendar year of 444 B.C. When we compute the solar calendar days of 173,855 to the starting date, and add the 25 days excess from the Jewish calendar, we find the date to be March 3oth, 33 A.D., the time Jesus rode into Jerusalem with a multitude of people around him; "...cried saying, Hosanna to the son of David: Blessed is he that cometh in the name of the Lord; Hosanna in the highest." Matthew 21:1-12 They were claiming Jesus to be the Messiah.

    In Daniel 9:27 continues thousands of years later, following the period we call the gap, or Church age. This is the one week of years God set aside to draw His people, called the Jews, back to himself. "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

    Halfway into the period, three and a half years, the Antichrist reveals his true colors, and Satan then turns on the Jews. He stops sacrifices and oblations, and brings the abomination to the temple. Then hatred, wrath and killing will be poured out on the nation of Israel. We will discuss each of these points later, as we look at various biblical passages in both the Old and New Testaments.

    The thing that makes these four verses, Daniel 9:24-27 so important to Christians, and Bible prophecy, is that it identifies the time of the age of Christ's church on earth. The two important things to remember here is that the sacrifices and the oblation will cease, this is the communion, and the Passover feast offerings, and that is because the entire world, including Christians, will believe that Christ has returned to earth. They will believe that the Antichrist is the Messiah.

    The second thins is that abomination that is to take place in Jerusalem, is when the Antichrist, Satan, shall stand in the temple and claim himself to be the true Christ.

    Daniel 9:26 "And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for Himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."

    The emperor of Rome took sides with the Syrians, against the Jews, and Titus Vespian moved his huge Roman army against all Judea, to totally destroy the city, and as Jesus prophesied, dismantled the entire temple. The Jews that escaped with their lives were scattered throughout the countries of the world.

    Daniel 9:27 "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate."

    In the translation, "the desolate", it is a person, and should be translated "desolator". That desolator is the Antichrist. and is Satan himself. It is not a king in Europe, or the middle east, for Satan is the "star" that fell to the earth in Revelation 9:1, and he will be given the key, or the authority to the bottomless pit.

    When the seventh trump sounds, the seventy weeks of years are over, and you will face the Lord Jesus Christ, either as a happy bride [the church], or in shame for chasing after the Antichrist.

    daniel9
     
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