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The purpose of the Law

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by Randy Kluth, Jul 14, 2020.

  1. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Well-Known Member

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    The purpose of the Law was to show Israel what righteousness was, so that they could do it, and also to show them they have a sin nature that needed final atonement. The Law showed Israel all that, and by extension, the whole world.

    It is often thought, due to Paul's language, that the Law was given to show Israel they *could not* be righteous, that they were vile and sinful, and needed Christ to forgive them. But it was much more than that. God would not have given them the Law if they could not do it. It was a form of righteousness that they could do until their final redemption.

    It's important that we grasp that the Law was given for the purpose of making Israel righteous while they awaited final redemption. But it did, as Paul said, show them that no matter how righteous they were, they had a sin nature, and needed a final atonement.

    The Law just gave them a temporary means of atonement until final atonement could be made by Christ. But the Law always was a way to be righteous while waiting for that grand act to take place.

    I meant to place this in the theology forum. Please reply there. Thanks.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
  2. 2nd Timothy Group

    2nd Timothy Group Active Member

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    I am so happy to see that you're focusing on the Law, for it is here that we are Truly able to, ultimately, understand the Purpose and Holy work of Christ. Man, I am so happy to see this!

    If I could add something to your knowledge base . . . consider the below 2-sets of passages.

    Isaiah 29:10 NLT - "For the LORD has poured out on you a spirit of deep sleep. He has closed the eyes of your prophets and visionaries."
    Romans 11:7-8 NLT - "So this is the situation: Most of the people of Israel have not found the favor of God they are looking for so earnestly. A few have--the ones God has chosen--but the hearts of the rest were hardened. 8 As the Scriptures say, "God has put them into a deep sleep. To this day he has shut their eyes so they do not see, and closed their ears so they do not hear."

    The Isaiah passage makes it seem that this "Deep Sleep" only applied to Israel's prophets and visionaries, but as we can imagine, when our leaders have fallen astray, so too, are the followers. Hence, Jeroboam! When Jeroboam led Israel Astray, they too, were under the "Deep Sleep" of their king.

    However, Paul makes it clear that this "Deep Speep" applied to nearly all of Israel, hence the Holy Remnant.

    Now, as I see it . . . Israel was already under the "Sleep", blindness, deafness, and confusion that comes from the Sinful Nature. Therefore, when they were placed under this additional layer of "Sleep," it would be virtually impossible for them to obey it. Remarkably, God accepts responsibility for causing His Chosen Ones to actually cook, eat, and hide their own children! In looking at this remarkable principle of Holy Mind-Control, it would be absolutely impossible for them to alter the course that God had set upon them.

    Leviticus 26:14-18, 29 NIV - 14 " 'But if you will not listen to me and carry out all these commands, 15 and if you reject my decrees and abhor my laws and fail to carry out all my commands and so violate my covenant, 16 then I will do this to you: I will bring on you sudden terror, wasting diseases and fever that will destroy your sight and sap your strength. You will plant seed in vain, because your enemies will eat it. 17 I will set my face against you so that you will be defeated by your enemies; those who hate you will rule over you, and you will flee even when no one is pursuing you. 18 " 'If after all this you will not listen to me, I will punish you for your sins seven times over. ... 29 You will eat the flesh of your sons and the flesh of your daughters."

    2 Kings 6:28-29 NIV - "Then he asked her, "What's the matter?" She answered, "This woman said to me, 'Give up your son so we may eat him today, and tomorrow we'll eat my son.' 29 So we cooked my son and ate him. The next day I said to her, 'Give up your son so we may eat him,' but she had hidden him."

    Jeremiah 19:9 NIV - "I will make them eat the flesh of their sons and daughters, and they will eat one another's flesh because their enemies will press the siege so hard against them to destroy them."

    Above, we see God making these predictions and then causing them to follow through. Would they have chosen to cook, hide, and eat their own children if God hadn't foretold what they would do?

    All throughout the Old Testament, we actually see God taking full responsibility for the sins of Israel as they violated the Law of Moses. The question is . . . why would God not allow them to obey?

    Considering passages from Amos would be good:

    Amos 4:6-11 NIV - "I gave you empty stomachs in every city and lack of bread in every town, yet you have not returned to me," declares the LORD. 7 "I also withheld rain from you when the harvest was still three months away. I sent rain on one town, but withheld it from another. One field had rain; another had none and dried up. 8 People staggered from town to town for water but did not get enough to drink, yet you have not returned to me," declares the LORD. 9 "Many times I struck your gardens and vineyards, destroying them with blight and mildew. Locusts devoured your fig and olive trees, yet you have not returned to me," declares the LORD. 10 "I sent plagues among you as I did to Egypt. I killed your young men with the sword, along with your captured horses. I filled your nostrils with the stench of your camps, yet you have not returned to me," declares the LORD. 11 "I overthrew some of you as I overthrew Sodom and Gomorrah. You were like a burning stick snatched from the fire, yet you have not returned to me," declares the LORD."

    It seems clear that God predicts what He predicts and follows through with them, this is His way of proving Himself . . . His Almighty Power. But to whom? Check this out . . . the Lord's Mysterious Plan is to show and Prove His Power to the Authorities and Rulers in the Heavenly Realms:

    Ephesians 3:8-11 NIV - "Although I am less than the least of all the Lord's people, this grace was given me: to preach to the Gentiles the boundless riches of Christ, 9 and to make plain to everyone the administration of this mystery, which for ages past was kept hidden in God, who created all things. 10 His intent was that now, through the church, the manifold wisdom of God should be made known to the rulers and authorities in the heavenly realms, 11 according to his eternal purpose that he accomplished in Christ Jesus our Lord."

    I think you'll appreciate what is above, for it shows the "manifold wisdom," which I take to mean a vast array of Power that only the Lord possesses. And, if this is True, then the Lord our God is doing all that He does so as to prove and demonstrate His Power.

    Why would I say this? Because God has made it clear that He will lead the entire world into such depravities, but to prove His Power to the Devil and has minions, our Amazing God will restore their Hearts and cause them to Love Him Perfectly and Wholeheartedly. This, my friend . . . is UNBELIEVABLE POWER!

    Ezekiel 36:26-28 NET - "I will give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit within you. I will remove the heart of stone from your body and give you a heart of flesh. 27 I will put my Spirit within you; I will take the initiative and you will obey my statutes and carefully observe my regulations. 28 Then you will live in the land I gave to your fathers; you will be my people, and I will be your God."

    To change the mindsets of humans . . . I believe that this is the most remarkable thing that God can do, for when it happens to a person, they certainly know it and are able to testify of the events miraculous, life-changing Nature.

    Any normal person would look at the chaos going on around them, and even in their own lives, and turn to God when they see that things are out of control. But even after cooking, eating and then hiding the dead bodies of their children, for later consumption, Israel would still not turn toward God. Yes, it is horrible, but to cause Israel to do these things is just as much of a miracle as it is for God to "give them a new heart and spirit."

    These things said, this is incredible, that God would cause such chaos as a way to prove His Holy Power by Circumcising the Hearts of those whom He would choose to extend His Grace, Compassion, and Mercy (Exodus 33:19).

    So, this hypothesis is here to show that, in fact, all of the suffering, chaos, death, cannibalisms, etc. . . this is all to prove His Holy, Almighty Power.

    Exodus 9:16 NLT - "But I have spared you for a purpose--to show you my power and to spread my fame throughout the earth."
    Jeremiah 16:21 NLT - "The LORD says, "Now I will show them my power; now I will show them my might. At last they will know and understand that I am the LORD."

    It just boggles my mind! But you, good sir, I think that you will see exactly what I am seeing. You have been given eyes to see, my friend. I appreciate you . . . (and if this isn't enough scripture proof, oh man, I have TONS more.
     
  3. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Well-Known Member

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    An interesting read. I do agree that God is showing His power, and demonstrating before angels and men that His justice is determined solely by whether God's creatures cooperate with Him. If they resist Him, they will be defeated and destroyed. If they work with Him, they will enter into His joys.

    God surely doesn't wish for people to cannibalize their children. But you have a point. God gives people the choice as to whether they will cooperate with God or not. If they don't, they could end up cannibalizing their children. The greater the rebellion against God's word, the worst the condition will be.

    Although I agree that God shows His power also in His ability to turn people around, to enable them to repent and to be righteous, I don't think that those in ancient Israel who came under extreme judgments were likely to enter into this grace. On the contrary, God was showing what the end is for those who rebel against Him to the end. They will die an awful death.

    God's hope is that people come to their senses before they get to that point, so that they can be forgiven and restored. Then such a judgment will not have to fall upon them.

    When the Scriptures say that Israel will be restored, it is certainly not saying that it will come by the repentance of all Israel. No, it's saying that the whole nation will be restored one day, because it had come under such terrible judgment that it virtually ceased to exist. Though the nation has been reduced to ashes, it will not just be restored as a part of a nation. No, it will be a complete nation, as before.

    I believe that the salvation of Israel will actually come through the remnant you mention, ie through Jews who have converted to Christ. Those who resist God's word in these last days will either be judged with destruction or will come to repentance. It could be half and half, but I don't really know. All I know is that Israel's salvation will involved judgment against the Jewish People before many of them come to Christ.

    We see that in the book of Revelation where it appears that the city of Jerusalem suffers a terrible earthquake. We also see that in Zechariah. So there are always those who resist God's word in a nation. But God plans to restore Israel once He has removed the rebellious. The rest will repent and embrace a new, Christian Israel.

    Anyway, this is just food for thought. Many of us here have different opinions. But I like your spirit--you're probably more generous with me than I deserve! ;) Thanks brother!
     
  4. 2nd Timothy Group

    2nd Timothy Group Active Member

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    I'm not sure about that! I know that you see things that others are not. You have clearly spent a lot of time with your Holy face in the Word of God! I say that, because if we do not understand, even at the most basic of levels, the system of "Laws" that God has implemented, we'll never understand the Plan of God, nor the Purpose of Christ. (I'll be reverting to you in the future as I ask questions of what you think . . . and what you think is absolutely important to me. You are a great counter-balance to what I believe, because as you say, we all see things differently, but you also see many "things" as do I. And that, my friend, means that you can be more objective, which is extremely important (to have an open mind that can also lead me out of being incorrect).

    As I have catalogued and classified much of the Word of God, I've collected just under 240 examples of how God takes responsibility for, essentially, all things. How else could He fulfill exactly what is written upon His Heavenly Scrolls, prewritten before Creation?

    Isaiah 30:28 NIV - "His breath is like a rushing torrent, rising up to the neck. He shakes the nations in the sieve of destruction; he places in the jaws of the peoples a bit that leads them astray."

    Isaiah 37:25-27 NLT - "I have dug wells in many foreign lands and refreshed myself with their water. With the sole of my foot, I stopped up all the rivers of Egypt!' 26 "But have you not heard? I decided this long ago. Long ago I planned it, and now I am making it happen. I planned for you to crush fortified cities into heaps of rubble. 27 That is why their people have so little power and are so frightened and confused. They are as weak as grass, as easily trampled as tender green shoots. They are like grass sprouting on a housetop, scorched before it can grow lush and tall."

    [Job 12:23-25 NLT] "He builds up nations, and he destroys them. He expands nations, and he abandons them. 24 He strips kings of understanding and leaves them wandering in a pathless wasteland. 25 They grope in the darkness without a light. He makes them stagger like drunkards."

    [Job 42:2 CSB] "I know that you can do anything and no plan of yours can be thwarted."

    Psalm 139:16 NIV - "Your eyes saw my unformed body; all the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be."

    Proverbs 21:30 NIV - "There is no wisdom, no insight, no plan that can succeed against the LORD."

    Ecclesiastes 6:10-12 NET - "Whatever has happened was foreordained, and what happens to a person was also foreknown. It is useless for him to argue with God about his fate because God is more powerful than he is. 11 The more one argues with words, the less he accomplishes. How does that benefit him? 12 For no one knows what is best for a person during his life - during the few days of his fleeting life - for they pass away like a shadow. Nor can anyone tell him what the future will hold for him on earth."

    I could go on and on and on and on . . . but here is one last verse . . .

    Jeremiah 32:42 NLT - "This is what the LORD says: Just as I have brought all these calamities on them, so I will do all the good I have promised them."

    And the final pasted verse above is what I am seeing in His Word . . . which is that God has planned all that has taken place, just so that when He Truly turns all things around, all people will astonished and shocked to see that He was always in total control. Nothing convinces a person MORE of His Power, that to be Truly Indwelt, proven by effective and conclusive change in a persons life. What I mean by that is this . . . when a person is Truly Transformed by Christ, it is a Transformation that cannot come by personal power. For example, many people say, "God transformed me when he had me quit drinking and drugging!" Plenty of pagans stop their drinking and drugging . . . this isn't the kind of Transformation that Paul was referring to from Romans 12. True Transformation is when God places a New Heart and a New Spirit within us.

    Ezekiel 11:19 NLT - "And I will give them singleness of heart and put a new spirit within them. I will take away their stony, stubborn heart and give them a tender, responsive heart . . ."

    THAT is a True Transformation . . . and the reason for why 99% of all people cannot ascend to this fact, is the very reason for why we have things group called the "Remnant." For few will ever find the gates of Heaven.

    Matthew 7:14 NLT - "But the gateway to life is very narrow and the road is difficult, and only a few ever find it."

    The thing is this . . . we cannot look upon ourselves so as to define the Word of God. Meaning, if we look at our behavior as it is, but believe that we are Truly Saved, we will then conclude that it is true, that True Christians can live in strip clubs, be drunk wasted, feast on the flesh of many women in one night, and still go to heaven. Yes, I actually saw my life in this exact way . . . which is that it didn't matter what I did in this world, I would be safe and secure because of Christ. It is extremely dangerous to be teachers of God's Word, particularly when we look upon ourselves so as to interpret. We can't say, "But look at me! I'm Truly Saved, and look at how I act!" Yikes, for . . . what if we are wrong in our understandings? We can actually lead many astray, just as I have done by such foolishness.

    As I have submitted, Truly Submitted to God, I have found that He has completely taken over my life and it is utterly out of my ability to control. I meant it. If you knew what was happening to me, you would be shocked and astonished at the level of insane persecution against me . . . right now. I am suffering far more than I ever have in my life, but I can see that God is in full-total control, just as He expresses Himself to be towards those that Truly belong to Him.

    As I consider my 53 years of life, I can honestly say that I have fully Submitted to God, and in by doing so, my life Truly does not belong to me. God is using me in ways that are very, very painful . . . it isn't fun. But, the Joy that I have in my heart in knowing that I am being used in ways that is for His Kingdom, and not mine, is incredible! I suffer, and that is precisely because there is nothing I can do about it. I have been doing all that I can to avoid pain and conflict, but has been bestowed upon me for His greater Glory . . . this is a life that I do not own, control, nor direct. It is impossible for me to do so, for He has conclusively shown that this is the case.

    Psalm 71:20 NLT - "You have allowed me to suffer much hardship, but you will restore me to life again and lift me up from the depths of the earth."

    1 Peter 1:6 NIV - "In all this you greatly rejoice, though now for a little while you may have had to suffer grief in all kinds of trials."
    1 Peter 5:10 NIV - "And the God of all grace, who called you to his eternal glory in Christ, after you have suffered a little while, will himself restore you and make you strong, firm and steadfast."

    Peter is clear, which is that all things are under the Power and Control of God, for it is He that causes and directs sufferings to come our way. While pagans live their evil lives with impunity, the True Children of the Lord [will not].

    Daniel 2:21 NIV - "He changes times and seasons; he deposes kings and raises up others. He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the discerning."

    Yes, God hides His Mysterious Plan behind ideas such as His being sad when His creations turn away from Him. But His saddness doesn't mean that all things are not in His control; rather, it simply means that while He conducts all things, it still hurts Him to see us suffer, though in the end He knows that He will restore us . . . Eternally. God knows what He will do within the lives of each of us . . . it isn't the other way around, where He is merely a reporter of what He sees. Nope . . . God is the Master Orchestrator of all things. All things.

    Ephesians 3:10 NLT - "God's purpose in all this was to use the church to display his wisdom in its rich variety to all the unseen rulers and authorities in the heavenly places."
    Colossians 2:15 NLT - "In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."

    From start to finish, there is a storyline throughout the whole Bible. And it is this precise Mystery that we are to discover and uncover. We must abandon Generational Theology and realize that we know nothing, that we must start over from the very beginning, and read the Bible as the proper story that it is, and this means that we've got to re-read the entire Work in a timeline, chronological order. How can we understand the Holy Word of God if we read it in a jumbled up fashion?

    No doubt, Paul describes the Mysterious Plan in Ephesians 3:1-10. We have to know this Plan, for if we do not, we will never grasp the reality of Circumcision of the Heart . . . the utter "Heart" of the Bible.

    Isaiah 34:15-17 NIV - "The owl will nest there and lay eggs, she will hatch them, and care for her young under the shadow of her wings; there also the falcons will gather, each with its mate. 16 Look in the scroll of the LORD and read: None of these will be missing, not one will lack her mate. For it is his mouth that has given the order, and his Spirit will gather them together. 17 He allots their portions; his hand distributes them by measure. They will possess it forever and dwell there from generation to generation."
     
  5. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Well-Known Member

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    A great interest appears to have been awakened in you. How great it is to have been chosen to be a child of God! How great it is when God trusts us with a little of His wisdom! It's wonderful that you have this love for the Scriptures! I'm sure you're right, that history is God's plan, and that He drives both the wicked and the righteous, entrusting choices to them. I'll be thinking about what you're sharing.

    I'm glad you've separated yourself from obvious sins to dedicate yourself to being a servant of the Lord. Yes, there is opposition, and we can't change things that God has determined. We can't break through walls that God has set up.

    One of my favorite verses is, "I have set before you an open door that no man can close." The doors the Lord closes no man can open. And the doors He opens no man can close.

    But there is such a thing as obedience and bravery. A worldly old man once said, despite his foolishness: "God hates cowards." Though the man wasn't all that respectable, these were wise words! :)
     
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  6. 2nd Timothy Group

    2nd Timothy Group Active Member

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    Thank you, Randy. I am very much looking forward to your insight in subsequent interactions. :)
     
  7. Ronald Nolette

    Ronald Nolette Well-Known Member

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    The Law was not given to make Israel righteous. It was to keep them till faith should come. Paul is very clear that no man is justified or made righteous by the deeds of the law!

    Teh blood of teh sin offerings covered Israel's sin, until the blood of Jesus removed the sin. But the 613 commands were given to sho wthem how God wanted them to live in teh promised land. History shows that they cold not, nor could we in teh New testament live up to teh demands of the law! The law drives us to jesus by showing how incapable we are of obtaining true righteousness by deeds.
     
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  8. 2nd Timothy Group

    2nd Timothy Group Active Member

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    I liked your post!

    What I find interesting about the Law of Moses, is that animal sacrifice seems to actually be able to pay for specific sins, but what these sacrifices could never do, is lift the Curse of the Sinful Nature. Could they pay for sin? Yes. Could they make us Pure and Holy? Nope. All of humanity would have to wait for this Holy Work of Christ.

    Romans 3:25-26 NLT - "For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, 26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus."

    The question is . . . What is the Work of Christ that makes us Holy and Righteous? What Element of Faith was missing from our Patriarchs Faith that would require for them to wait for the arrival, death, burial, and Resurrection of Christ?

    What an amazing Plan God has for us! I love it!:)
     
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  9. Bartholomew Jones

    Bartholomew Jones Active Member

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    Thank you gentleman for your good manners and thoughtful conversation. I'm learning to find my way towards those good old paths around these forums. I'll be listening.
     
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  10. Ronald Nolette

    Ronald Nolette Well-Known Member

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    Actually nothing was missing from the patriarchs faith! When they died , they went to Abrhams bosom/Paradise. the "nice" compartment of hell/sheol/hades/the grave. What was lackiong was jesus blood actually being shed and literally poured out on teh mercy seat in heaven!

    The blood of bulls and goats and sheep never "forgave" sins, but merely covered them until Jesus blood was applied on teh heavenly mercy seat and then their sin was removed! Then, as it says in Ephesians, when Jesus ascended, He took all the OT saved with Him!

    Yes I love Gods plan! After 46 years walking as a believer, I still stand in awe of the depth of love God has for us!
     
  11. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Active Member

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    Yes, that is true. There were things that could be forgiven under the system of animal sacrifice and there were things that could not.

    Acts 13:39
    39Through Him everyone who believes is justified from everything you could not be justified from by the law of Moses.

    Right. Of the things that you could be forgiven for under the law, you were forgiven.....until you sinned again, or the priest died, or the sacrifice burnt up, lol. Thus the reason why the sacrifices had to be repeated over and over and over again.

    What the sacrifices could not do is solicit the death of the flesh, and so we continued in our slavery to sin and the necessity of a repetitive system of sacrifice.

    The giving of the Holy Spirit. Symbolized by the various washings and anointings prescribed by the law. The Holy Spirit within us is the death of self that the cross secured for us.
     
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  12. 2nd Timothy Group

    2nd Timothy Group Active Member

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    Thank you, Ronald, for sharing your valuable time and perspective with me. I was wondering what you thought of the below passages by Paul. Thanks! I'm open to being wrong about what my Bible seems to report. If I'm wrong, then what I teach is leading people astray, and that I cannot accept. So thanks again!

    Romans 3:25-26 NLT - "For God presented Jesus as the sacrifice for sin. People are made right with God when they believe that Jesus sacrificed his life, shedding his blood. This sacrifice shows that God was being fair when he held back and did not punish those who sinned in times past, 26 for he was looking ahead and including them in what he would do in this present time. God did this to demonstrate his righteousness, for he himself is fair and just, and he declares sinners to be right in his sight when they believe in Jesus."

    It seems that Paul is making the point that the deceased hadn't known Christ, thus when Christ was raised from the Dead, that is why many Holy men of the past were raised and seen walking around.

    Matthew 27:50-53 NLT - "Then Jesus shouted out again, and he released his spirit. 51 At that moment the curtain in the sanctuary of the Temple was torn in two, from top to bottom. The earth shook, rocks split apart, 52 and tombs opened. The bodies of many godly men and women who had died were raised from the dead. 53 They left the cemetery after Jesus' resurrection, went into the holy city of Jerusalem, and appeared to many people."

    Let me know if you prefer a specific translation. I'll keep tabs on the translations of us and interact with each of you that way. I would love that. Thanks . . . but yet again!
     
  13. 2nd Timothy Group

    2nd Timothy Group Active Member

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    Sweet! Be sure to include the removal of the Sinful Nature. Without this Work of Christ, the lifting of the Sinful Nature, all things and knowledge are irrelevant. What do you think? :D

    Colossians 2:9-15 NLT - "For in Christ lives all the fullness of God in a human body. 10 So you also are complete through your union with Christ, who is the head over every ruler and authority. 11 When you came to Christ, you were "circumcised," but not by a physical procedure. Christ performed a spiritual circumcision--the cutting away of your sinful nature. 12 For you were buried with Christ when you were baptized. And with him you were raised to new life because you trusted the mighty power of God, who raised Christ from the dead. 13 You were dead because of your sins and because your sinful nature was not yet cut away. Then God made you alive with Christ, for he forgave all our sins. 14 He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. 15 In this way, he disarmed the spiritual rulers and authorities. He shamed them publicly by his victory over them on the cross."
     
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  14. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Addressing the OP, Good topic,

    the purpose of the Law, was that it was a "School Teacher", for those who would inherit the promise to come. as the OP said, not just for Isral only but the world.

    Galatians 3:19 "Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator."Galatians 3:20 "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one."Galatians 3:21 "Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law."Galatians 3:22 "But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe."Galatians 3:23 "But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed."Galatians 3:24 "Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith."Galatians 3:25 "But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster."Galatians 3:26 "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus."Galatians 3:27 "For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ."Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."Galatians 3:29 "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

    be blessed,

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
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  15. Ferris Bueller

    Ferris Bueller Active Member

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    That's what the Holy Spirit in us does. It puts to death the power of the flesh.

    And this circumcision—this putting off of the deeds of the flesh—is done by the Holy Spirit.

    Romans 2:29
    circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit
     
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  16. 2nd Timothy Group

    2nd Timothy Group Active Member

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    Oh my goodness. I've met someone that has been taught by the Holy Spirit. Bye bye, Generational (handed-down) Theology!
     
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  17. Ronald Nolette

    Ronald Nolette Well-Known Member

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    You are welcome. I am not a fan of the NLT. It uses a dynamic translation which at times is good but tends to really water down many important areas.

    If you want a good modern English translation I would suggest the NIV or the NASB. Avoid dynamic translations (which are more paraphrases than translations). Also avoid gender neutral English versions of Scripture.

    The best way to study the Bible is to get a strong translation ( having been a believer for over 46 years I use multiple translations but I am most familiar with KJV), but also to use the onlione greek and hebrew language tools as well as some of my favorites.

    bible gateway
    E-Sword
    bible Hub
    Blue letter bible

    Hope this helps.
     
  18. 2nd Timothy Group

    2nd Timothy Group Active Member

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    Absolutely. In all of my videos that I produce, I reference as many translations as possible, even the Tanakh (which is, often, more in alignment with the Mysterious Plan of God when none of the "Christian" Bibles fall in line.

    I reference all translations to simply show, and prove, that they the Mysterious Plan of God remains within them all. Every Bible Translation hold the Mysterious Plan of God, and the reason for this is simple . . . you cannot get rid of what you cannot recognize. (Not "you" personally, but people in general.)

    I love the KJV because when it comes to the Doctrine of Circumcised Hearts, it is as clear as could possible be . . . and that is just incredible. For Example:

    Genesis 17:11 KJV - "And ye shall circumcise the flesh of your foreskin; and it shall be a token of the covenant betwixt me and you."
    Deuteronomy 10:16 KJV - "Circumcise therefore the foreskin of your heart, and be no more stiffnecked."
    Jeremiah 4:4 KJV - "Circumcise yourselves to the LORD, and take away the foreskins of your heart, ye men of Judah and inhabitants of Jerusalem: lest my fury come forth like fire, and burn that none can quench [it], because of the evil of your doings."
    Psalm 51:10 KJV - "Create in me a clean heart, O God; and renew a right spirit within me."
    Ezekiel 11:19 KJV - "And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh:"
    Ezekiel 18:31 KJV - "Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you a new heart and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel?"
    Ezekiel 36:26 KJV - "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh."
    Romans 2:29 KJV - "But he [is] a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision [is that] of the heart, in the spirit, [and] not in the letter; whose praise [is] not of men, but of God."

    And that is JUST the beginning. See? The KJV is as clear as a bell . . . whatever that means.

    Thank you all so much! If I am wrong, please don't give up!
     
  19. Randy Kluth

    Randy Kluth Well-Known Member

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    This is misleading, in my view. It would be contradictory of God to ask Israel to obey the Law, and then to tell them they could never be righteous in doing this. It would be contradictory of Him to command them to obey all those rules only to inform them later that it had been an impossible task, given only to frustrate them--they could really never ever please Him!

    The truth is, it is told so many times in the Scriptures that the Law was to be "righteousness" for Israel in their obedience that it seems obscene to have to prove it! It was critically important to believe this, as Jesus even said during his earthly ministry: (paraphrased) "you're better off teaching more of the Law than less of the Law."

    I think what you're confusing here is that the Law was given not just to provide righteousness to Israel, but also to testify of their need for atonement. In all of their obedience, their sin also would be revealed, explaining the need for atonement. And it would never be able to save Israel as a nation, because there would always be those who rebel, spreading sin and rebellion throughout the nation.

    But the fact the Law exposed the Sin Nature in Israel did not at all mean it did not provide a temporary righteousness that could keep God and Israel together at times! It clearly did that, even though something more would be needed to bring the nation into final deliverance. And something more would be needed to provide eternal atonement, instead of just temporary reprieves.

    Deut 6.24 The Lord commanded us to obey all these decrees and to fear the Lord our God, so that we might always prosper and be kept alive, as is the case today. 25 And if we are careful to obey all this law before the Lord our God, as he has commanded us, that will be our righteousness.
     
  20. Ronald Nolette

    Ronald Nolette Well-Known Member

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    Well Paul told us clearly that no one was ever said by the works of the law! Romans 3 and Galatians make it clear that the law was given so that sin would abound. To put it into todays language- The law was givwen to show that man cannot be "good enough" to be saved and so drive them to faith!
     
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