The Qualification for Holiness

[101G]

Foundation Scriptures:
NT: 1 Peter 1:14 "As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:"
1 Peter 1:15 "But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;"
1 Peter 1:16 "Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy."

OT: Leviticus 19:2 "Speak unto all the congregation of the children of Israel, and say unto them, Ye shall be holy: for I the LORD your God am holy."
Leviticus 11:44 "For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

Teaching Scripture: Micah 6:8 "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

if any Christian out there, that is still looking for a formula to obtain Holiness, well look no further. I want to thank my Lord and God for allowing me to place this in the BIBLE STUDY section, so that we all may examine this for ourselves. and that it might hjelp someone in their search of Holiness. also I would Like to thank my God for my Friend @amadeus who with his AMEN on Micah 6:8 nudge me into bring this out. I now see the reason he, the Lord Jesus, God almighty constantly brought me back to this scripture. many of lay christian seem Holiness is unattainable in their lifetime.

Micah 6:8 give us the basic ingredients in perfection, “Holiness”. so what is Holiness? it is a dedication or consecration to God or a religious purpose, sacred, or set apart. which all member of the church are … set apart. to set apart is to separate oneself from this world. 2 Corinthians 6:17 "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you," 2 Corinthians 6:18 "And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty."

so in sanctification, or the setting apart, the very first step toward Holiness is baptism. YES BAPTISM, look it up, another word, or a word that is synonyms with sanctification is … yes, BAPTISM. (and some teach you don’t have to have it). in this used as a noun, (A person's initiation into a particular activity or role, typically one perceived as difficult), hence the reason the baptism of water it is in obedience to God command, not just a sign or symbol. Sanctification is God's transformation of a believer's whole being, that is the mind, will, behaviors, and affections through the work of the Holy Spirit. meaning it’s a “PROCESS”, see (Hebrews 12:2).

so the first step in the process of Holiness is Baptism. Justification is God's declaration that a sinner is righteous through the work of Jesus Christ. Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:24 "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:"

(this Grace is a call of, (“to come out”), a separating of one’s self from the world. then one set their mind solely on God… to be “dedicated” which is to be devoted to a task or purpose, having single-minded loyalty or integrity. can we place that definition in a word found in the bible? how about the term, “devout”, or God fearing men and women.

the purpose of this post in the “BIBLE STUDY” section is for the reader who can find any men and or women in the bible who meet the qualification of “Holiness”, and examine their own lives and learn from them. I have quite a few at the top of my head. sometimes looking at actual ordinary people in the bible, in their will/dedication, and behaviour/Living to please God. we ourselves can learn for these men and women in the OT and NT in our walk with God. based on at least one of these qualification found in in Micah 6:8. who do you believe qualified. a. do justly. b. love mercy. and c. walk humbly with thy God.

one of my picks, the widow woman of Zarephath. and our brother Joseph, husband of Mary.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

I like the the widow woman of Zarephath, and learned a lot about God, and his prophet, and the woman.
#1. the woman was obedient. #2. the prophet was obedient. #3. God is obedient, yes God.
when I first read this story, I thought Elijah was a bit arrogant. and the poor widow woman was humble. she obeyed God and the prophet, and she had nothing, and was on her last meal. she did justly toward the prophet, and like wise the prophet to her. and it was God who was JUST to both, for he sustained both and the widow woman son. but that barrel of meal is what got me, God supplied all their meals everyday. well cracker barrel, the restaurant today, can't do that.

I must say, the will of each to accomplish God's will was done. they was Just in their doing. so as the apostle Peter said, the "holy prophets" of old. I agree, and this widow woman of Zarephath stands amoung the many holy saint who was Just in her dealing with her fellow man.

what a great story of a woman FAITH in God.


PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

Many of Christian think to be holy one must be this or that... no, do you have to have a million dollars to be holy? no, do one have to part a red sea to be holy? no, if so none of us will never be holy, but God said, Leviticus 11:44 "For I am the LORD your God: ye shall therefore sanctify yourselves, and ye shall be holy; for I am holy: neither shall ye defile yourselves with any manner of creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

Now if God say that one can be holy ... in his sight, then one can or either God lied... and God don't lie.

I don't look for those red sea moments, or an ride in the fiery chariot, but like this widow woman who obeyed God and had much FAITH. these are the saints that are my witness as Hebrews 12:1 "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us," amen

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[Behold]

so the first step in the process of Holiness is Baptism.

What?

The single qualification for Holiness: is the Blood Atonment, as this is the only qualifier offered by God.
All other heresies need not apply.

Also =What type Baptism?
If Spiritual, then yes......" For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body of Christ,"" as this is the Holy Spirit birthing you as a new creation into God's Spirit, which is described as a "Baptism".
However this is not related to water, as its only achieved by God's Spirit.
And how do you know this?? Its because Hell is full of people who were water baptized but never did this...
Jesus said...."you must be BORN AGAIN".

 

[amadeus]

Micah 6:8 give us the basic ingredients in perfection, “Holiness”. so what is Holiness? it is a dedication or consecration to God or a religious purpose, sacred, or set apart. which all member of the church are … set apart. to set apart is to separate oneself from this world. 2 Corinthians 6:17 "Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you," 2 Corinthians 6:18 "And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty."

so in sanctification, or the setting apart, the very first step toward Holiness is baptism. YES BAPTISM, look it up, another word, or a word that is synonyms with sanctification is … yes, BAPTISM. (and some teach you don’t have to have it). in this used as a noun, (A person's initiation into a particular activity or role, typically one perceived as difficult), hence the reason the baptism of water it is in obedience to God command, not just a sign or symbol. Sanctification is God's transformation of a believer's whole being, that is the mind, will, behaviors, and affections through the work of the Holy Spirit. meaning it’s a “PROCESS”, see (Hebrews 12:2).

so the first step in the process of Holiness is Baptism. Justification is God's declaration that a sinner is righteous through the work of Jesus Christ. Romans 3:23 "For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;" Romans 3:24 "Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:"

(this Grace is a call of, (“to come out”), a separating of one’s self from the world. then one set their mind solely on God… to be “dedicated” which is to be devoted to a task or purpose, having single-minded loyalty or integrity. can we place that definition in a word found in the bible? how about the term, “devout”, or God fearing men and women...

This motion, this move away from the world and worldly things, this sanctification, this holiness is the perfection to which Jesus clearly directs us:

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matt 5:48

This is that, according to some, impossible goal, perfection, but people keeping referring back in their minds what carnal men call perfection. If someone is moving toward God he really is perfect in the moment. That someone is holy or sanctified or perfect according to God even though he may also be growing. When a person stands still he doesn't realize he is on a talus slope where it requires a continuous upward motion to prevent oneself from sliding backward down the slope. This is, if one can understand it, a clearest indication of what is wrong with OSAS.


["Geologists define talus as the pile of rocks that accumulates at the base of a cliff, chute, or slope. The formation of a talus slope results from the talus accumulation."]

 

[Behold]

This is, if one can understand it, a clearest indication of what is wrong with OSAS.

The devil teaches that OSAS, means "license to sin".....

However Jude contradicts the Father of Lies and explains that what the devil did, and still does 2000 yrs later, is.....he creates the false idea, that is his heresy, which has substituted the function and reality of God's Grace, into the false heresy that to teach Grace Correctly, is teaching "cheap grace", or " sin license". And in this way the devil prevents those who are self righteous from actually understanding Grace at all.... as he manipulated them into this deception to begin with, using their self righteousness to turn the Light that is in them, into darkness.

And these same, who are so deceived, will always teach a gospel of works, including the heresy that you can lose your salvation.
= This is how you discover these heretics,.......
its by noting that they can't accept Grace as a FREE Gift that keeps you saved, and will always twist the Gospel of God's Grace into their heretical Gospel of "self saving" by self effort.
These self efforts include : "enduring to the end.. abiding... commandment keeping.. torah keeping. water baptism... repenting of and confessing sin, habitually, ,...and of course trying to keep themselves saved by these self righteous works....which is their heretical Trademark.

 

[amadeus]

The devil teaches that OSAS, means "license to sin".....

However Jude contradicts the Father of Lies and explains that what the devil did, and still does 2000 yrs later, is.....he creates the false idea, that is his heresy, which has substituted the function and reality of God's Grace, into the false heresy that to teach Grace Correctly, is teaching "cheap grace", or " sin license". And in this way the devil prevents those who are self righteous from actually understanding Grace at all.... as he manipulated them into this deception to begin with, using their self righteousness to turn the Light that is in them, into darkness.

And these same, who are so deceived, will always teach a gospel of works, including the heresy that you can lose your salvation.
= This is how you discover these heretics,.......
its by noting that they can't accept Grace as a FREE Gift that keeps you saved, and will always twist the Gospel of God's Grace into their heretical Gospel of "self saving" by self effort.
These self efforts include : "enduring to the end.. abiding... commandment keeping.. torah keeping. water baptism... repenting of and confessing sin, habitually, ,...and of course trying to keep themselves saved by these self righteous works....which is their heretical Trademark.

Seemingly you speak essentially in the cliches of established church groups or persons and include perhaps at times paraphrases of scriptures which match your beliefs... I guess. I have tried a few times to read what you have written on this forum and unravel it but only with difficulty have I even partially understood. Whatever you are saying in that manner does not open the way for a real discussion for me. Someone else may be willing to receive what you are saying without question, but I cannot.

 

[APAK]

This motion, this move away from the world and worldly things, this sanctification, this holiness is the perfection to which Jesus clearly directs us:

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matt 5:48

This is that, according to some, impossible goal, perfection, but people keeping referring back in their minds what carnal men call perfection. If someone is moving toward God he really is perfect in the moment. That someone is holy or sanctified or perfect according to God even though he may also be growing. When a person stands still he doesn't realize he is on a talus slope where it requires a continuous upward motion to prevent oneself from sliding backward down the slope. This is, if one can understand it, a clearest indication of what is wrong with OSAS.


["Geologists define talus as the pile of rocks that accumulates at the base of a cliff, chute, or slope. The formation of a talus slope results from the talus accumulation."]

amadeus, what do you really mean when you say, If someone is moving toward God he really is perfect in the moment."? Is this statement influenced by your quote of Matt 5:48?

Thanks

APAK

 

[amadeus]

amadeus, what do you really mean when you say, If someone is moving toward God he really is perfect in the moment."? Is this statement influenced by your quote of Matt 5:48?

Thanks

APAK

Consider this verse:

"There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil." Job 1:1

With what he already had in the way of experiences according to the writer inspired by God, Job was perfect. Perhaps the thief on the cross who had in his final day of physical life come to know and believe Jesus, was also perfect. Each one was an overcomer. Each one had overcome in the way that God wanted them to overcome... but in the case of Job, his time was not yet finished. To continue along his course, he could not stand still, but must move on toward God. He must grow. The growth was finished for the thief on the cross, but not for Job.

"So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning:.." Job 42:12

From perfect in what he had at the first to perfect with he had at the end. The overcoming message?

Every person today who has really repented that first time has overcome... but if he still has time left as Job had time left is there not more that needs to be overcome in order to be an overcomer at the end of the road? To be a 'perfect' man?

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Rev 2:11

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it." Rev 2:17

"And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations" Rev 2:26

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Rev 3:5

"Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." Rev 3:12

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." Rev 3:21

"He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son." Rev 21:7

Jesus was also an overcomer was he not?

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world" John 16:33

Jesus overcame the world of his own flesh, the temptations upon him as they are upon every man. He overcame everyone... the last one I believe in Gethsemene chapter 26 when spoke to his Father the same words the third time..."nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."

Immediately after saying he had overcome the world [John 16:33] we see his praying to his Father in John 17. Jesus had not yet gone to the cross to be crucified... but see this verse:

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee..." John 17:11

Jesus was still on planet Earth in a body of flesh, but, I believe, he had already passed through the last temptation as per Matt 26:39 and was no longer in the world, the world of the temptations of a man of flesh. Before that final prayer he was still tempted to sin. He never did and after that prayer even though the suffering and dying on the cross was before the temptations were gone.

We, most [all?] of us are in still in the world of our own temptations, but then read this, which speaks not of planet Earth, but of the world of me in my tempations:

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." I John 2:15-17

 

[101G]

This motion, this move away from the world and worldly things, this sanctification, this holiness is the perfection to which Jesus clearly directs us:

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matt 5:48

This is that, according to some, impossible goal, perfection, but people keeping referring back in their minds what carnal men call perfection. If someone is moving toward God he really is perfect in the moment. That someone is holy or sanctified or perfect according to God even though he may also be growing. When a person stands still he doesn't realize he is on a talus slope where it requires a continuous upward motion to prevent oneself from sliding backward down the slope. This is, if one can understand it, a clearest indication of what is wrong with OSAS.


["Geologists define talus as the pile of rocks that accumulates at the base of a cliff, chute, or slope. The formation of a talus slope results from the talus accumulation."]

Amen

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[DPMartin]

job is a good example



Job 1:20　 Then Job arose, and rent his mantle, and shaved his head, and fell down upon the ground, and worshipped,　
Job 1:21　 And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.　
Job 1:22　 In all this Job sinned not, nor charged God foolishly.　

and after his health:

Job 2:9　 Then said his wife unto him, Dost thou still retain thine integrity? curse God, and die.　
Job 2:10　 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.　


what did Job understand that nearly no one understands, not even his friend who believed in the Almighty. the Lord God is judge of what is good and evil for all His creation and the creatures therein, no exception. Job blessed the name of the LORD, basically thanking the LORD. also perfect in the eyes of those who wrote the bible means fulfilled. Job knowing that its of the Lord then there's fulfillment therein. perfection in biblical terms.

one must understand if He's your Lord, then He is the Judge of what is good or evil in all matters for you, and you thank Him for it, that you may receive fulfillment therein.

there is a statement Job makes in the mist of his misery to the effect he would hope that some one would write down his story. guess what you and the whole world can read it. hence the fulfillment of his service to the Lord his God.


anyway God is Holy and His nature is Holy and the Life He gave through His Son is Holy. His Presence within those He dwells is Holy and makes Holy that which He dwells with and in. the ground that Moses had to take his shoe off for was Holy because of God's Presence.

 

[101G]

Also =What type Baptism?
If Spiritual, then yes......" For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body of Christ,"" as this is the Holy Spirit birthing you as a new creation into God's Spirit, which is described as a "Baptism".

there are two types of Baptism by the Spirit. A. the Baptism "of" the Holy Ghost, that birth you. and B. the Baptism "WITH" the Holy Ghost that empower the believer.

water Baptism KILLS, not the BODY, but the mind, or the old man/consciousness. for once dead, a NEW LIFE can began. supportive scripture, Romans 7:1 "Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?" Romans 7:2 "For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband." well the LAW of BAPTISM loose you by DEATH, so that one is FREE to marry Another.

for it is the obedience toward God from man. 1 Peter 3:21 "The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ:" and it is the Spirit that "RE-NEWS" the mind.

Nor do any Blood sanctify you, but it puts one into a position to have peace with God, saintification is not a one time thing. in laymans terms, it makes us make legitimate to the TREE of LIFE... Sanctification is God's transformation of a believer's whole being, that is the mind, will, behaviors, and affections through the work of the Holy Spirit. and our MINDS is where our consciousness lay, and what did 1 Peter 3:21b say? "but the answer of a good conscience toward God". BINGO. the blood, it's the purchase price of our REDEMPTION. yes blood was shed to remove sin, and it keeps us clean from all unrighteousness, but it want do you nor me any Good if we don't answer the call. hence the differene between Justification and Sanctification.

A. Justification is God's declaration that a sinner is righteous through the work of Jesus Christ.

B. Sanctification is God's transformation of a believer's whole being, that is the mind, will, behaviors, and affections through the work of the Holy Spirit.

understand, Justification is a one-time act of God, which makes it complete and finished.

Sanctification is a continual process since a believer is not completely freed from sin until the day of resurrection.

when God said, "BE" ye holy.... that's present tense.


Remember, Don't argue with 101G, argue with the scriptures, God Holy Word.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[101G]

my other pick was our brother Joseph, the husband of our sister Mary, the surrogate mother of our Lord and savior the Christ.

this man is describe as "Just", Matthew 1:19 "Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily."
I love this man also, for he was "Just" before God under the Law, but yet did not used the Law to justify himself. but he used the Spirit of the Law in Which God requires, which bring us back to Micah 6:8 in what God REQUIRE of US, "He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?"

"but to do justly", BINGO, there he is, notice the wording, not to be "JUST", but to "DO" ... JUSTICE, or Justly, which is do the RIGHT THING. BINGO.

but also in Micah 6:8, right after do justly, comes... "to love mercy", was not this our brother in action, he showed MERCY, and when one show it ... what happens, you will receive MERCY. Luke 6:36 "Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful." and what you meter out you will receive in return.

even in a marriage, that could have went south, our brother obeyed God, and seek not to kill, but seeked Life for all. there is much to say about our brother, but I'm sure one gets the picture.

PICJAG
101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"

 

[WaterSong]

What?

The single qualification for Holiness: is the Blood Atonment, as this is the only qualifier offered by God.
All other heresies need not apply.

Also =What type Baptism?
If Spiritual, then yes......" For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body of Christ,"" as this is the Holy Spirit birthing you as a new creation into God's Spirit, which is described as a "Baptism".
However this is not related to water, as its only achieved by God's Spirit.
And how do you know this?? Its because Hell is full of people who were water baptized but never did this...
Jesus said...."you must be BORN AGAIN".

No one is yet in Hell.
Hell is the place assigned after judgment before the great white throne.

And I saw the dead, small and great, standing before God, and books were opened. And another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged according to their works, by the things which were written in the books. The sea gave up the dead who were in it, and Death and Hades delivered up the dead who were in them. And they were judged, each one according to his works. Then Death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And anyone not found written in the Book of Life was cast into the lake of fire.
-Revelation 20:12-15
https://christiananswers.net/q-grace/hell-occupants.html

 

[APAK]

Consider this verse:

"There was a man in the land of Uz, whose name was Job; and that man was perfect and upright, and one that feared God, and eschewed evil." Job 1:1

With what he already had in the way of experiences according to the writer inspired by God, Job was perfect. Perhaps the thief on the cross who had in his final day of physical life come to know and believe Jesus, was also perfect. Each one was an overcomer. Each one had overcome in the way that God wanted them to overcome... but in the case of Job, his time was not yet finished. To continue along his course, he could not stand still, but must move on toward God. He must grow. The growth was finished for the thief on the cross, but not for Job.

"So the LORD blessed the latter end of Job more than his beginning:.." Job 42:12

From perfect in what he had at the first to perfect with he had at the end. The overcoming message?

Every person today who has really repented that first time has overcome... but if he still has time left as Job had time left is there not more that needs to be overcome in order to be an overcomer at the end of the road? To be a 'perfect' man?

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God." Rev 2:7

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Rev 2:11

"He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it." Rev 2:17

"And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations" Rev 2:26

"He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Rev 3:5

"Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name." Rev 3:12

"To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." Rev 3:21

"He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son." Rev 21:7

Jesus was also an overcomer was he not?

"These things I have spoken unto you, that in me ye might have peace. In the world ye shall have tribulation: but be of good cheer; I have overcome the world" John 16:33

Jesus overcame the world of his own flesh, the temptations upon him as they are upon every man. He overcame everyone... the last one I believe in Gethsemene chapter 26 when spoke to his Father the same words the third time..."nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt."

Immediately after saying he had overcome the world [John 16:33] we see his praying to his Father in John 17. Jesus had not yet gone to the cross to be crucified... but see this verse:

"And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee..." John 17:11

Jesus was still on planet Earth in a body of flesh, but, I believe, he had already passed through the last temptation as per Matt 26:39 and was no longer in the world, the world of the temptations of a man of flesh. Before that final prayer he was still tempted to sin. He never did and after that prayer even though the suffering and dying on the cross was before the temptations were gone.

We, most [all?] of us are in still in the world of our own temptations, but then read this, which speaks not of planet Earth, but of the world of me in my tempations:

"Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.
And the world passeth away, and the lust thereof: but he that doeth the will of God abideth for ever." I John 2:15-17

amadeus, you made your respond to my two simple questions, unnecessarily too complicated. You have placed me at a disadvantage here.

What are you really trying to say here? Do you believe that you have to do specific works during your life you have on earth to overcome, endure and reach a level of perfection to gain the blessings of God and be ultimately saved. And if you falter along the way somehow? you can lose your salvation? I believe you are saying these things and this doctrine is similar as the Catholics believe; they are never sure they are saved for eternity, in their lifetime.

Now if I attempted to answer your complicated road map to my two questions I posed I would have to address, for starters, that you have added in two different meanings of 'perfect' (in this response and from the last one from Matthew 5:48) and added at least two types of definitions of overcome/ overcomer/ overcoming' in the mix.

just saying..

Bless you,

APAK

 

[WaterSong]

Holy, Holiness Definition and Meaning - Bible Dictionary
[sic]"...It is important to note that no one is ever called to be or can become holy alone. The saints comprise the church as a holy community. It is in the middle of normal life that the central factors of holiness are worked out. In ways similar to the transmission of the covenant in the Old Testament, there is a mutual accountability and encouragement inherent in the call to reflect the character of God (cf. 1 Thess 2:10-12 ; Heb 10:25 ; Hebrews 13:7 Hebrews 13:17 ).


1 John 3:6-10
No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother.

How Can Christians Be Holy As God Commands Them?

 

[amadeus]

amadeus, you made your respond to my two simple questions, unnecessarily too complicated. You have placed me at a disadvantage here.

What are you really trying to say here? Do you believe that you have to do specific works during your life you have on earth to overcome, endure and reach a level of perfection to gain the blessings of God and be ultimately saved. And if you falter along the way somehow? you can lose your salvation? I believe you are saying these things and this doctrine is similar as the Catholics believe; they are never sure they are saved for eternity, in their lifetime.

Now if I attempted to answer your complicated road map to my two questions I posed I would have to address, for starters, that you have added in two different meanings of 'perfect' (in this response and from the last one from Matthew 5:48) and added at least two types of definitions of overcome/ overcomer/ overcoming' in the mix.

just saying..

Bless you,

APAK

What I believe is simple enough. We cannot make it alone, but we must run the whole course reaching the end on the Lord's side. This is only possible by the power of God in us. Continuous surrender to God will get us there with Him. Continuous surrender to God is only possible by asking Him to help us surrender. All that is needed is available, but we must really want it more than we want what the world of men has to offer.

 

[APAK]

What I believe is simple enough. We cannot make it alone, but we must run the whole course reaching the end on the Lord's side. This is only possible by the power of God in us. Continuous surrender to God will get us there with Him. Continuous surrender to God is only possible by asking Him to help us surrender. All that is needed is available, but we must really want it more than we want what the world of men has to offer.

I still see in your words you are trying to use your own mind and will and therefore works, to determine your level of continuous 'good' standing with God since you were reborn in Christ.

Similarly, you have also assumed, or taken it upon yourself, that God wants you to work this process, of yours, together with him.

I personally have surrendered my will over to God by the conditions set for grace that was bestowed upon me and caused my spiritual rebirth, with the insertion of the spirit of Christ within me. There is no more surrendering to do for salvation, still being completed or perfected in Christ!

Now if I have found I sinned or potentially sinned, then Christ in spirit will surely let me know....I would then 'surrender' or repent for this cause, although this is not the surrender I believe you have in mind. Yours is a humanly impossible one to achieve for any length of time.

If you don't mind, you are trying to become a perfect monk of sorts and swatting down anything, at any moment, that potentially could be construed as an infraction to God. This perfection is not the perfection for salvation at all.

APAK

 

[amadeus]

I still see in your words you are trying to use your own mind and will and therefore works, to determine your level of continuous 'good' standing with God since you were reborn in Christ.

Similarly, you have also assumed, or taken it upon yourself, that God wants you to work this process, of yours, together with him.

I personally have surrendered my will over to God by the conditions set for grace that was bestowed upon me and caused my spiritual rebirth, with the insertion of the spirit of Christ within me. There is no more surrendering to do for salvation, still being completed or perfected in Christ!

Now if I have found I sinned or potentially sinned, then Christ in spirit will surely let me know....I would then 'surrender' or repent for this cause, although this is not the surrender I believe you have in mind. Yours is a humanly impossible one to achieve for any length of time.

If you don't mind, you are trying to become a perfect monk of sorts and swatting down anything, at any moment, that potentially could be construed as an infraction to God. This perfection is not the perfection for salvation at all.

APAK

What I did my friend is simplified it as you requested by putting it my own words instead of using scriptures. I can support my beliefs step by step with scripture as I am sure you can as well. Arguing the point by citing scriptures won't change our positions. You doubt my faith and accuse me of something I never claimed. You presume you know what I am doing and how I serve God. You certainly do not. You say that 'I have assumed', but if I were so inclined I could say and describe the same thing about your words. I won't because I don't want to win an argument and I could not any more than you could.

I bid thee farewell and God speed. I am sorry you insisted on pursuing this in this manner... We do live for God by faith rather than by knowledge!

 

[tabletalk]

What I believe is simple enough. We cannot make it alone, but we must run the whole course reaching the end on the Lord's side. This is only possible by the power of God in us. Continuous surrender to God will get us there with Him. Continuous surrender to God is only possible by asking Him to help us surrender. All that is needed is available, but we must really want it more than we want what the world of men has to offer.

But, if you get Alzheimer's disease you may not 'really want it' (continuous surrender to God) any longer.

Then what? No salvation?