The Rapture and Jewish Weddings

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AlwaysCurious

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The Rapture and Jewish Weddings

There is an interesting parallel between a Jewish wedding and the Rapture. Only a Pre-Tribulation Rapture will fit into this scenario.
Three groups of people were present at every Jewish wedding—the groom, the bride, and the invited guests.
Three groups of people will also be involved in the marriage of the Lamb.

1. The Groom—this is Jesus (2 Cor. 11:2, Eph. 5:23-27)
2. The Bride—this is the Church (2 Cor. 11:2, Eph. 5:22-32, Rev. 21:9-10)
3. The Guests—these are people saved after the Rapture (Matt. 25:1-10).

Some people have mistakenly interpreted the 10 virgins as the Church.
However, they are the guests invited to the wedding feast and are not the bride.

Three Aspects of a Jewish Wedding
There were also three aspects of every Jewish wedding. The same is true with the marriage of the Lamb.

1. The Wedding Contract (Betrothal).
This is when a person is saved (2 Cor. 11:2).

2. The Wedding Ceremony (Groom receives Bride).
This is the Rapture (John 14:2-3). Revelation 19:7 literally reads, "The marriage of the Lamb came and His wife prepared herself." The wedding already occurred at the Rapture, and now the Lamb and the Church are about to return to earth for the wedding feast. This parallels what Jesus said in Luke 12:36, "And be like men who are waiting for their master when he returns from the wedding…
” (It should read “wedding,” not "wedding feast" as some versions say. Why would someone wait after the wedding feast when the celebration is over?)

3. The Wedding Feast (Guests are invited to the celebration).
This is the Second Coming (Matt. 25:1-10) "Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb" (Rev. 19:9). A bride is not invited to her own wedding! The Church was married to Christ at the Rapture and the wedding feast will occur on earth after the Second Coming. Those people saved after the Rapture (the tribulation saints) will be invited to participate in the wedding feast.

And here's one more thought to ponder…

Three Times of Redemption (“Redemption" means "to purchase.”)

1. When you were saved by receiving Jesus as your Lord, He redeemed your spirit. (1 Peter 1:18, Eph. 1:7)
2. At the Rapture, Jesus will redeem your body. (Rom. 8:23, Eph. 1:14, 4:30).
3. At the Second Coming, Jesus will redeem the earth. (Rom. 8:19-22) At this time, the curse which was placed on it because of the fall of man (Gen. 3:17-19) will be lifted (Zech. 14:11).
 

Randy Kluth

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The Rapture and Jewish Weddings

There is an interesting parallel between a Jewish wedding and the Rapture. Only a Pre-Tribulation Rapture will fit into this scenario.
However, if your parallel version is incorrect, then you are trying to prove Pretribulationism through the use of a faulty, suspect parable. My own view, which may be equally "suspect," is as follows...

The 10 virgins represent the present Jewish minority who embraced Christ as "husband." They were not yet "married" to him because he had not yet died and come back in glorious form.

Since the Law was still in effect at the time Jesus gave this parable he was giving the symbolism in OT terms, depicting the 10 virgins as still under the Law, awaiting their "husband."

5 of the "virgins" represented followers of Jesus in Judaism who would be disqualified by their failure to properly carry the light of Christ. They had not fully internalized their faith, and as such, had only a temporary supply of it.

On the other hand there were 5 "virgins" who had a stable supply of oil for their lamps, and as such were committed to faith in Christ. They would be ready when he comes to "marry" them.

It can be seen that the faithful Jews who faithfully followed Christ were "married" to Christ when he had completed his atoning work, or it may apply, as well, to Jesus' 2nd Coming, when his atoning work will result in their glorification. Jesus seems to have combined his atoning work with its result on behalf of Israel at his Coming.

As I said, this was an OT parable, and as such, dealt primarily with Israel at the time. Only they were God's People at that time.

But we can read the parable today and apply it equally to the Church. Some have temporary faith, and some have internalized their faith completely and have become "Born Again." They have a steady and perennial supply of faith that will result in glorification at Christ's Coming.
 

rebuilder 454

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The Rapture and Jewish Weddings

There is an interesting parallel between a Jewish wedding and the Rapture. Only a Pre-Tribulation Rapture will fit into this scenario.
Three groups of people were present at every Jewish wedding—the groom, the bride, and the invited guests.
Three groups of people will also be involved in the marriage of the Lamb.

1. The Groom—this is Jesus (2 Cor. 11:2, Eph. 5:23-27)
2. The Bride—this is the Church (2 Cor. 11:2, Eph. 5:22-32, Rev. 21:9-10)
3. The Guests—these are people saved after the Rapture (Matt. 25:1-10).

Some people have mistakenly interpreted the 10 virgins as the Church.
However, they are the guests invited to the wedding feast and are not the bride.

Three Aspects of a Jewish Wedding
There were also three aspects of every Jewish wedding. The same is true with the marriage of the Lamb.

1. The Wedding Contract (Betrothal).
This is when a person is saved (2 Cor. 11:2).

2. The Wedding Ceremony (Groom receives Bride).
This is the Rapture (John 14:2-3). Revelation 19:7 literally reads, "The marriage of the Lamb came and His wife prepared herself." The wedding already occurred at the Rapture, and now the Lamb and the Church are about to return to earth for the wedding feast. This parallels what Jesus said in Luke 12:36, "And be like men who are waiting for their master when he returns from the wedding…
” (It should read “wedding,” not "wedding feast" as some versions say. Why would someone wait after the wedding feast when the celebration is over?)

3. The Wedding Feast (Guests are invited to the celebration).
This is the Second Coming (Matt. 25:1-10) "Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb" (Rev. 19:9). A bride is not invited to her own wedding! The Church was married to Christ at the Rapture and the wedding feast will occur on earth after the Second Coming. Those people saved after the Rapture (the tribulation saints) will be invited to participate in the wedding feast.

And here's one more thought to ponder…

Three Times of Redemption (“Redemption" means "to purchase.”)

1. When you were saved by receiving Jesus as your Lord, He redeemed your spirit. (1 Peter 1:18, Eph. 1:7)
2. At the Rapture, Jesus will redeem your body. (Rom. 8:23, Eph. 1:14, 4:30).
3. At the Second Coming, Jesus will redeem the earth. (Rom. 8:19-22) At this time, the curse which was placed on it because of the fall of man (Gen. 3:17-19) will be lifted (Zech. 14:11).
Wedding feast is in heaven.
10 virgins are the church.
5 are the bride. In fact they go into the wedding chamber...in heaven where the bride is taken.
5 are worthy. 5 are not.
Half the church will be left behind at the pretrib rapture.
A few sentences earlier in Matthew 24 we see the exact same percentage of those taken and those that are left behind which would be another 50% group. That 50% group can only be half the church there's nothing else whatsoever that fits that 50% dynamic.
 
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rebuilder 454

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However, if your parallel version is incorrect, then you are trying to prove Pretribulationism through the use of a faulty, suspect parable. My own view, which may be equally "suspect," is as follows...

The 10 virgins represent the present Jewish minority who embraced Christ as "husband." They were not yet "married" to him because he had not yet died and come back in glorious form.

Since the Law was still in effect at the time Jesus gave this parable he was giving the symbolism in OT terms, depicting the 10 virgins as still under the Law, awaiting their "husband."

5 of the "virgins" represented followers of Jesus in Judaism who would be disqualified by their failure to properly carry the light of Christ. They had not fully internalized their faith, and as such, had only a temporary supply of it.

On the other hand there were 5 "virgins" who had a stable supply of oil for their lamps, and as such were committed to faith in Christ. They would be ready when he comes to "marry" them.

It can be seen that the faithful Jews who faithfully followed Christ were "married" to Christ when he had completed his atoning work, or it may apply, as well, to Jesus' 2nd Coming, when his atoning work will result in their glorification. Jesus seems to have combined his atoning work with its result on behalf of Israel at his Coming.

As I said, this was an OT parable, and as such, dealt primarily with Israel at the time. Only they were God's People at that time.

But we can read the parable today and apply it equally to the Church. Some have temporary faith, and some have internalized their faith completely and have become "Born Again." They have a steady and perennial supply of faith that will result in glorification at Christ's Coming.
"""The 10 virgins represent the present Jewish minority who embraced Christ as "husband." They were not yet "married" to him because he had not yet died and come back in glorious form.

Since the Law was still in effect at the time Jesus gave this parable he was giving the symbolism in OT terms, depicting the 10 virgins as still under the Law, awaiting their "husband." """
Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
The priesthood changed at Jesus baptism.
The church is the gentile bride as depicted in Ruth.
Boaz represents Jesus
Ruth the church
And of course Naomi is The Jew.
All 3 are together in the end and Naomi is given Ruth's baby as an inheritance. A 4th dynamic.
As depicted in Romans.
The Jew is the wayward wife of the father.
The bride is The gentile church.
Without the panoramic view or shall we say the big picture these dynamics of end times cannot possibly be understood.
The entire purpose of the Rapture is the Gathering of the Bride and of course only the pre-tribulation Rapture fits every single argument. The five unworthy virgins are the carnal self-centered rebellious Church. The five wise are those that are intimate with the Lord thus they commune via the Holy Spirit. That is the oil and the extra oil.
After that Gathering of the Bride God deals immediately with the rebellious Church and they are martyred every single one of them by the Antichrist or they take the mark and go into tremendous horrible zombie existence.
The whole purpose of the tribulation ...the entire thing ...is to gather the Jewish Wayward wife.
It is called Jacob's trouble, which is Israel's trouble.
We see that dealt with specifically in the Book of Revelation during the tribulation period
And in Revelation 14 we see that Wayward wife gathered ...it is at verse 14.
And so that's the whole dynamic of the panoramic picture of what's going on.
If you don't have the panoramic picture you will never be able to unpack end times. It is 100% viewed through the prism of the bride and the groom.
 
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Randy Kluth

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"""The 10 virgins represent the present Jewish minority who embraced Christ as "husband." They were not yet "married" to him because he had not yet died and come back in glorious form.

Since the Law was still in effect at the time Jesus gave this parable he was giving the symbolism in OT terms, depicting the 10 virgins as still under the Law, awaiting their "husband." """
Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.
The priesthood changed at Jesus baptism.
That is not true. Jesus still recognized the Aaronic or Levitical priesthood during his earthly ministry. Jesus' priesthood was separate from, but not exclusive of, the priesthood under the Law. Jesus clearly did *not* disqualify the Law during his ministry, including the priesthood, the Temple, and the sacrifices.
The entire purpose of the Rapture is the Gathering of the Bride and of course only the pre-tribulation Rapture fits every single argument.
I would say that this is provably false, that the PreTrib view fits any biblical eschatology. In fact, the primary source of NT eschatology in Dan 7 presents the coming of the Son of Man from heaven at the defeat of Antichrist. Jesus' view of his 2nd Coming in his Olivet Discourse rejects any preliminary Coming unless it is a revelation to earth from heaven, ie Postrib. And in 2 Thes 2 Paul clearly presents the Postrib view.
 

rebuilder 454

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That is not true. Jesus still recognized the Aaronic or Levitical priesthood during his earthly ministry. Jesus' priesthood was separate from, but not exclusive of, the priesthood under the Law. Jesus clearly did *not* disqualify the Law during his ministry, including the priesthood, the Temple, and the sacrifices.

I would say that this is provably false, that the PreTrib view fits any biblical eschatology. In fact, the primary source of NT eschatology in Dan 7 presents the coming of the Son of Man from heaven at the defeat of Antichrist. Jesus' view of his 2nd Coming in his Olivet Discourse rejects any preliminary Coming unless it is a revelation to earth from heaven, ie Postrib. And in 2 Thes 2 Paul clearly presents the Postrib view.
No way .
Way off
Jesus was of Judah/ david.
Only levitical priests were in existence.
David was the forerunner of Jesus.( judah)
John TB was of Levi. He was in fact the legit priest. Annas and Ciaphus were Roman appointees.
The priesthood changed at Je,sus baptism.

That is WHY the veil was torn.. Change in priesthood.

...and yes only pretrib rapture fits .
Look what postribbers do to the 10 virgin parable.
I have never seen one postribber leave every component in tact..

If you point out to a postribber that the Antichrist kills everyone that refuses the mark they immediately reject that and try to modify the Bible to fit what they suppose in their imagination with Christians running around for their lives trying to escape the Antichrist chasing them from cave to cave.
 

Randy Kluth

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No way .
Way off
Jesus was of Judah/ david.
Only levitical priests were in existence.
David was the forerunner of Jesus.( judah)
John TB was of Levi. He was in fact the legit priest. Annas and Ciaphus were Roman appointees.
The priesthood changed at Je,sus baptism.
Are you actually denying that the Levitical Priesthood had ceased to exist at Jesus' Baptism? Jesus legitimized the continuing priesthood of the Law during his earthly ministry!

Matt 5.17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.
That is WHY the veil was torn.. Change in priesthood.
You said the priesthood changed, apparently from Levitical to Melchizedek, at Jesus' Baptism. Now you're saying there was a change when the "veil was torn" at Jesus' crucifixion?

The Levitical priesthood, as you seemed to note, was in existence during Jesus' ministry. But Jesus was priest of heaven by virtue of his Deity. In other words, he was born a priest from heaven. He did not have an official rulebook to follow such as the Levitical priests had.
...and yes only pretrib rapture fits .
Look what postribbers do to the 10 virgin parable.
I have never seen one postribber leave every component in tact..
I have not in the least tampered with the parable--I'm interpreting it, just as you are. If you consider my interpretation a "change" then your interpretation is equally a "change." But in fact, we're just interpreting the parable as it is. To suggest I'm changing it is not honest. If you really think I've changed it, then show me what words I've changed in Jesus' version?
If you point out to a postribber that the Antichrist kills everyone that refuses the mark they immediately reject that and try to modify the Bible to fit what they suppose in their imagination with Christians running around for their lives trying to escape the Antichrist chasing them from cave to cave.
Sometimes the Bible makes generalizations which, when the context is understood, is understood to apply only within the frame of reference. This is common sense and recognized in any literary rulebook.

For example, to see that Antichrist "kills everyone" when it is already understood that the Antichrist has a limited sphere of power indicates that he is killing those who actively resist his decree within his own realm and within his reach. Others, outside of his reign, and hidden from sight, would understood to be exempt from this massacre. This otherwise might be viewed as an exhaustive statement, describing that Antichrist kills absolutely every Christian on earth.

In another example, it is said in the Revelation that the whole world worships the Beast. But in context we understand that there are those who faithfully resist the worship of the Beast. And so what may be understood as an exhaustive statement that *everybody* worships the Beast actually applies only under qualifications.

But these are problematic for those who wish their own scenario to be held up regardless of objection. I hope you understand that others can think as reasonably as you can? What matters is that we have a heart to submit to God's word, regardless of our personal agenda.
 
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rebuilder 454

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Are you actually denying that the Levitical Priesthood had ceased to exist at Jesus' Baptism? Jesus legitimized the continuing priesthood of the Law during his earthly ministry!

Matt 5.17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

You said the priesthood changed, apparently from Levitical to Melchizedek, at Jesus' Baptism. Now you're saying there was a change when the "veil was torn" at Jesus' crucifixion?

The Levitical priesthood, as you seemed to note, was in existence during Jesus' ministry. But Jesus was priest of heaven by virtue of his Deity. In other words, he was born a priest from heaven. He did not have an official rulebook to follow such as the Levitical priests had.

I have not in the least tampered with the parable--I'm interpreting it, just as you are. If you consider my interpretation a "change" then your interpretation is equally a "change." But in fact, we're just interpreting the parable as it is. To suggest I'm changing it is not honest. If you really think I've changed it, then show me what words I've changed in Jesus' version?

Sometimes the Bible makes generalizations which, when the context is understood, is understood to apply only within the frame of reference. This is common sense and recognized in any literary rulebook.

For example, to see that Antichrist "kills everyone" when it is already understood that the Antichrist has a limited sphere of power indicates that he is killing those who actively resist his decree within his own realm and within his reach. Others, outside of his reign, and hidden from sight, would understood to be exempt from this massacre. This otherwise might be viewed as an exhaustive statement, describing that Antichrist kills absolutely every Christian on earth.

In another example, it is said in the Revelation that the whole world worships the Beast. But in context we understand that there are those who faithfully resist the worship of the Beast. And so what may be understood as an exhaustive statement that *everybody* worships the Beast actually applies only under qualifications.

But these are problematic for those who wish their own scenario to be held up regardless of objection. I hope you understand that others can think as reasonably as you can? What matters is that we have a heart to submit to God's word, regardless of our personal agenda.
1) I never said any of that
2) I was telling YOU the priesthood changed at Jesus baptism, not at the torn veil.( veil torn indicating the priesthood changed)...
3) the veil was torn indicating many dynamics.
4) no, Jesus de-ligitimized the levitical priesthood in his earthly ministry.
Over and over he rebuked them and brought NEW dynamics in.
In some respects we are Saying the same things ....peace
 

rebuilder 454

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Are you actually denying that the Levitical Priesthood had ceased to exist at Jesus' Baptism? Jesus legitimized the continuing priesthood of the Law during his earthly ministry!

Matt 5.17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Therefore anyone who sets aside one of the least of these commands and teaches others accordingly will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

You said the priesthood changed, apparently from Levitical to Melchizedek, at Jesus' Baptism. Now you're saying there was a change when the "veil was torn" at Jesus' crucifixion?

The Levitical priesthood, as you seemed to note, was in existence during Jesus' ministry. But Jesus was priest of heaven by virtue of his Deity. In other words, he was born a priest from heaven. He did not have an official rulebook to follow such as the Levitical priests had.

I have not in the least tampered with the parable--I'm interpreting it, just as you are. If you consider my interpretation a "change" then your interpretation is equally a "change." But in fact, we're just interpreting the parable as it is. To suggest I'm changing it is not honest. If you really think I've changed it, then show me what words I've changed in Jesus' version?

Sometimes the Bible makes generalizations which, when the context is understood, is understood to apply only within the frame of reference. This is common sense and recognized in any literary rulebook.

For example, to see that Antichrist "kills everyone" when it is already understood that the Antichrist has a limited sphere of power indicates that he is killing those who actively resist his decree within his own realm and within his reach. Others, outside of his reign, and hidden from sight, would understood to be exempt from this massacre. This otherwise might be viewed as an exhaustive statement, describing that Antichrist kills absolutely every Christian on earth.

In another example, it is said in the Revelation that the whole world worships the Beast. But in context we understand that there are those who faithfully resist the worship of the Beast. And so what may be understood as an exhaustive statement that *everybody* worships the Beast actually applies only under qualifications.

But these are problematic for those who wish their own scenario to be held up regardless of objection. I hope you understand that others can think as reasonably as you can? What matters is that we have a heart to submit to God's word, regardless of our personal agenda.

1) If the AC has limited scope then the multitude without number COULD be numbered.
It would be a million or so martyred.
2) it says every man, woman, and child takes The mark. That is worldwide.
3) with today's technology and a possible reward on turning in Christians, none of you stand a chance on running to some
cave.
4) the world is being prepped right now for a one world governing system and currency.
There is nothing if the 4 Horseman, or any of the plagues, nor the flying scorpions, that would indicate that things are just in a local sense. The inference is they are worldwide
 

ScottA

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The Rapture and Jewish Weddings

There is an interesting parallel between a Jewish wedding and the Rapture. Only a Pre-Tribulation Rapture will fit into this scenario.
Three groups of people were present at every Jewish wedding—the groom, the bride, and the invited guests.
Three groups of people will also be involved in the marriage of the Lamb.

1. The Groom—this is Jesus (2 Cor. 11:2, Eph. 5:23-27)
2. The Bride—this is the Church (2 Cor. 11:2, Eph. 5:22-32, Rev. 21:9-10)
3. The Guests—these are people saved after the Rapture (Matt. 25:1-10).

Some people have mistakenly interpreted the 10 virgins as the Church.
However, they are the guests invited to the wedding feast and are not the bride.

Three Aspects of a Jewish Wedding
There were also three aspects of every Jewish wedding. The same is true with the marriage of the Lamb.

1. The Wedding Contract (Betrothal).
This is when a person is saved (2 Cor. 11:2).

2. The Wedding Ceremony (Groom receives Bride).
This is the Rapture (John 14:2-3). Revelation 19:7 literally reads, "The marriage of the Lamb came and His wife prepared herself." The wedding already occurred at the Rapture, and now the Lamb and the Church are about to return to earth for the wedding feast. This parallels what Jesus said in Luke 12:36, "And be like men who are waiting for their master when he returns from the wedding…
” (It should read “wedding,” not "wedding feast" as some versions say. Why would someone wait after the wedding feast when the celebration is over?)

3. The Wedding Feast (Guests are invited to the celebration).
This is the Second Coming (Matt. 25:1-10) "Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb" (Rev. 19:9). A bride is not invited to her own wedding! The Church was married to Christ at the Rapture and the wedding feast will occur on earth after the Second Coming. Those people saved after the Rapture (the tribulation saints) will be invited to participate in the wedding feast.

And here's one more thought to ponder…

Three Times of Redemption (“Redemption" means "to purchase.”)

1. When you were saved by receiving Jesus as your Lord, He redeemed your spirit. (1 Peter 1:18, Eph. 1:7)
2. At the Rapture, Jesus will redeem your body. (Rom. 8:23, Eph. 1:14, 4:30).
3. At the Second Coming, Jesus will redeem the earth. (Rom. 8:19-22) At this time, the curse which was placed on it because of the fall of man (Gen. 3:17-19) will be lifted (Zech. 14:11).

You have done well to observe the wedding ceremony, but then you apply it all (or try to fit it all into a box) to the understandings and teachings of men.

Take your own marriage: Did you get married (your #1 of 3 redemptions), then live the rest of your life alone (your #2) before you came to your bride (your #3)?

Now adjust your theology accordingly.
 

Randy Kluth

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1) I never said any of that
2) I was telling YOU the priesthood changed at Jesus baptism, not at the torn veil.( veil torn indicating the priesthood changed)...
3) the veil was torn indicating many dynamics.
4) no, Jesus de-ligitimized the levitical priesthood in his earthly ministry.
Over and over he rebuked them and brought NEW dynamics in.
In some respects we are Saying the same things ....peace
I don't understand. You deny saying precisely what I said you were saying, that the priesthood changed at Jesus' Baptism.

My claim is that the Levitical Priesthood continued during Jesus' earthly ministry and was in fact sanctioned by him, despite the hypocrisy of the Pharisees and teachers of the Law who had corrupted Jewish worship under the Law. You are saying right here that Jesus delegitimized it during his earthly ministry, which is completely disproven by Jesus' affirmation in Matt 5 that all of the Law remained binding, which of course included the priesthood. He specifically affirmed teaching under the Law even though hypocritical Pharisees had been the source of this teaching.

Matt 23.1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

It's possible we are misunderstanding each other. However, I think we agree that Jesus' priesthood surpassed the Levitical priesthood in time, both as the Pharisees had corrupted its teaching and as Christ had been taken out of the equation. It was at the tearing of the veil that the old Temple system lost its validity in the eyes of God, even though Temple worship remained for another 40 years.
 

Randy Kluth

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1) If the AC has limited scope then the multitude without number COULD be numbered.
It would be a million or so martyred.
I don't know what you mean? Saying a great multitude could not be numbered is simply saying that the number exceeds typical hand counting abilities--not that the number is infinite. And I never said that the Great Multitude represents all those martyred by the Beast. Where are you getting this?

It's not a matter of "if" the AC has limited scope. That's what we are told in Dan 7, that the AC rules over only 10 nations--not the whole world.

For example, the US presently is a world power that is dominant across the earth. But the US does not have actual rule over the whole earth. At best, it impacts the whole world.

It will be the same with the AC. He will impact the whole world. There will be worshipers in every country. And he will be a world power that appears to be indominable.

However, he has limited scope according to Dan 7. And his Kingdom will come to an end.

And there will be resistance to his rule. It appears that the Kings of the East will challenge his rule, which I believe will be in Europe and in the Middle East.
2) it says every man, woman, and child takes The mark. That is worldwide.
This was a statement of policy--not something to be understood exhaustively. Universal terms have qualifications. You don't seem to understand those qualifications.

If I say the "whole earth is shocked at what Trump said," it doesn't mean that the whole earth literally suffered electric shock and were aware of what he said. You have to use common sense.
 

rebuilder 454

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I don't understand. You deny saying precisely what I said you were saying, that the priesthood changed at Jesus' Baptism.

My claim is that the Levitical Priesthood continued during Jesus' earthly ministry and was in fact sanctioned by him, despite the hypocrisy of the Pharisees and teachers of the Law who had corrupted Jewish worship under the Law. You are saying right here that Jesus delegitimized it during his earthly ministry, which is completely disproven by Jesus' affirmation in Matt 5 that all of the Law remained binding, which of course included the priesthood. He specifically affirmed teaching under the Law even though hypocritical Pharisees had been the source of this teachig.

Matt 23.1 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2 “The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

It's possible we are misunderstanding each other. However, I think we agree that Jesus' priesthood surpassed the Levitical priesthood in time, both as the Pharisees had corrupted its teaching and as Christ had been taken out of the equation. It was at the tearing of the veil that the old Temple system lost its validity in the eyes of God, even though Temple worship remained for another 40 years.
No
I told you it changed at His baptism.
The veil was torn years later.
I have never believed the priesthood changed at the veil being torn.
We are most likely misunderstanding each other.

Maybe we are on the same page and I am not conveying my position well.
 

Randy Kluth

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No
I told you it changed at His baptism.
The veil was torn years later.
I have never believed the priesthood changed at the veil being torn.
We are most likely misunderstanding each other.

Maybe we are on the same page and I am not conveying my position well.
You are very confusing to me. You are saying that the Levitical Priesthood changed to Jesus' Melchizedek Priesthood at Jesus' Baptism?

I've shown you that is not true. Jesus recognized all 613 requirements of the Law, including all of the requirements of the Levitical priesthood. Immoral, irresponsible Levitical priests did not delegitimize the law of Levitical priesthood. Jesus' Baptism did not change that, as Jesus himself indicated.
 

rebuilder 454

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I don't know what you mean? Saying a great multitude could not be numbered is simply saying that the number exceeds typical hand counting abilities--not that the number is infinite. And I never said that the Great Multitude represents all those martyred by the Beast. Where are you getting this?

It's not a matter of "if" the AC has limited scope. That's what we are told in Dan 7, that the AC rules over only 10 nations--not the whole world.

For example, the US presently is a world power that is dominant across the earth. But the US does not have actual rule over the whole earth. At best, it impacts the whole world.

It will be the same with the AC. He will impact the whole world. There will be worshipers in every country. And he will be a world power that appears to be indominable.

However, he has limited scope according to Dan 7. And his Kingdom will come to an end.

And there will be resistance to his rule. It appears that the Kings of the East will challenge his rule, which I believe will be in Europe and in the Middle East.

This was a statement of policy--not something to be understood exhaustively. Universal terms have qualifications. You don't seem to understand those qualifications.

If I say the "whole earth is shocked at what Trump said," it doesn't mean that the whole earth literally suffered electric shock and were aware of what he said. You have to use common sense.
Rev 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Not limited area. All nations. All that came out if the GT.
All nations
AC is a world wide butcher.
..and yes we do invoke common sense , but faith us invoked where the mind can't comprehend.
 

rebuilder 454

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You are very confusing to me. You are saying that the Levitical Priesthood changed to Jesus' Melchizedek Priesthood at Jesus' Baptism?

I've shown you that is not true. Jesus recognized all 613 requirements of the Law, including all of the requirements of the Levitical priesthood. Immoral, irresponsible Levitical priests did not delegitimize the law of Levitical priesthood. Jesus' Baptism did not change that, as Jesus himself indicated.
Jesus ministry was of priesthood. That was his earthly ministry.....PRIESTHOOD
THE ESTABLISHED PRIESTHOOD UNDER AARON WAS LEVI....NOT JUDAH.
Jesus began his. ministry AFTER his baptism.
A levitical priest entered his office via baptism.
A levitacal priest baptized Jesus into HIS MINISTRY.
Ciaphus and Annas were Roman appointees.
Not legit.
But a true priest ,JTB, baptized Jesus. CHANGING THE Priesthood.
All basic and 100% accurate

But if you want to believe that Jesus had no priesthood in his earthly ministry, then that is your choice.
Not bible, but do what you want.

The entire Priesthood and service had been corrupted.
Jesus deligitimized the entire deal.
I have seen others reverse what is established.
They think Jesus followed a pattern of law and service.
No..no..no...their Jewish priesthood service in the temple pointed to Jesus.
Every sacrifice pointed to the ONE TRUE FUTURE SACRIFICE.
Jesus followed nothing of their form.
Everywhere He went he made them mad for OPERATING Outside their law.
In fact they crucified Him for NOT FOLLOWING THE SABBATH
 

Timtofly

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Rev 7
9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Not limited area. All nations. All that came out if the GT.
All nations
AC is a world wide butcher.
..and yes we do invoke common sense , but faith us invoked where the mind can't comprehend.
Then you practically leave out the millions, if not billions, already in Paradise with the tree of life since the Cross. You know all those people who received God's building not made by human hands, but a house for the soul, that is eternal in the heavens.

John does not see just those recent additions but all those who had been serving God day and night in His temple for 2 millennia. People from all nations have been entering year after year for 1994 years. Many out of great tribulation, as Jesus promised the church would see great tribulation.

"Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations."

This time of trouble does not start months prior to the Second Coming. This started days after Jesus ascended into heaven. This has been the church's trouble, that can only stop at the rapture.
 

rebuilder 454

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Then you practically leave out the millions, if not billions, already in Paradise with the tree of life since the Cross. You know all those people who received God's building not made by human hands, but a house for the soul, that is eternal in the heavens.

John does not see just those recent additions but all those who had been serving God day and night in His temple for 2 millennia. People from all nations have been entering year after year for 1994 years. Many out of great tribulation, as Jesus promised the church would see great tribulation.

"Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations."

This time of trouble does not start months prior to the Second Coming. This started days after Jesus ascended into heaven. This has been the church's trouble, that can only stop at the rapture.
Ahhhh grasshopper , not so.
All those in paradise were taken to heaven at Jesus resurrection.
Bit no, Jesus framed the great trib as " has never happened and never will".
So it is not some assumption of 2000 yrs of trib, but a specific timeframe.
You need to factor in more verses before making assumptions.
 

Jericho

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I've actually done quite a bit of research on this, and there are clear parallels between the Gailiean wedding ceremony and the pre-trib rapture. I've created an entire outline to demonstrate the parallels but it really deserves its own thread. However, I don't want to overshadow AlwaysCurious' post.
 
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AlwaysCurious

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I've actually done quite a bit of research on this, and there are clear parallels between the Gailiean wedding ceremony and the pre-trib rapture. I've created an entire outline to demonstrate the parallels but it really deserves its own thread. However, I don't want to overshadow AlwaysCurious' post.
Please do. I welcome your input.
I've actually done quite a bit of research on this, and there are clear parallels between the Gailiean wedding ceremony and the pre-trib rapture. I've created an entire outline to demonstrate the parallels but it really deserves its own thread. However, I don't want to overshadow AlwaysCurious' post.
 
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