The Rapture Is in Olivet Discourse

[Christ4Me]

Olivet discourse is Matthew 24:1-25:46. So let us apply your belief that believers are suppose to go through the great tribulation until Christ comes at the very end of the great tribulation when He defends Jerusalem when the world's armies will be marching against it.

Now imagine how bad that will be for believers at the end of the great tribulation when supposedly the beast has been waging war on the saints.

Revelation 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. 8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Revelation 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

How can a believer not watch? Why would Jesus even bother to warn believers to be ready or else then? Jesus describes a world that the saints will be living in as not like the end of the great tribulation.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Believers will be eating and drinking, as well as with marrying and given in marriage along other people. And when the believers are taken, note how one will be working in the field and another grinding at the mill. How can that be when the beast is waging war on the saints to kill them with the sword and with hunger because they do not have the mark of the beast to buy & sell or to even work freely?

 

[Christ4Me]

Below is a warning from the Lord about an apostasy in the latter days as to why believers are to be ready as found abiding in Him or else.

I submit this application to consider that this apostasy is believing the lie that you can receive the "Holy Spirit" again apart from salvation. This apostate calling can include another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues, slain in the spirit, holy laughter movement, Pensacola Outpouring, Toronto's Blessings, and Ernest Angeley's Healing Crusade where he would announce the Holy Spirit falling on already saved believers for a miracle which causes them to fall backwards in a loss of self control.

Anyone believing the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again, are suffering a thief to break through as hinted at below for not watching.

Matthew 24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. 47 Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. 48 But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; 49 And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; 50 The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, 51 And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Those who lose self control are those that can be deem as drunken in falling down and such by that phenomenon. This falling away from the faith by that apostasy is why believers are to watch as Jesus expounded on the above by giving an example by the parable below into the next chapter.

251 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom. 2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish. 3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them: 4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps. 5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept. 6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him. 7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps. 8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out. 9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves. 10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut. 11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us. 12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not. 13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.

Now discern this; that Matthew 25:1-13 is connected to those that get left behind after being denied by Him as they wind up weeping and gnashing their teeth in Matthew 24:45-51 for being left out of the wedding reception when the Bridegroom had come for not being ready.

Consider the oil as the Holy Spirit for why those five virgins were out to the market for not being ready. So those who seek to receive the Holy Spirit again and even others testify of receiving Him again and again as if a continual filling of the Holy Spirit, are out to the market for why they are not ready. Whereas the prudent or the wise had that oil from the beginning as always Spirit-filled since salvation as a testimony from God that they are saved ( Matthew 9:17 ) for why they do not hunger nor thirst any more to be filled as Jesus promised for all those that come to & believe in Him to be saved ( John 6:35 ) for why they were ready to go.

Those who have ears that hear, can still depart from that iniquity, by returning to their first love, by chasing no more after those seducing spirits to receive, & with His help, shun tongues for private use, and pray normally so they can know when they get an answer to prayer and give the Father thanks in Jesus's name for known answer to prayers and thus be ready to go by His grace & by His help.

As it is, any work of iniquity, heresy is a work of the flesh, that denies Him, for why He will deny them, BUT do note that even though the five virgins that were foolish, missed out on the wedding reception with the Bridegroom, they are still a part of that kingdom of Heaven; Matthew 25:1 That is why Jesus is warning believers to be ready for the rapture, the coming of the Bridegroom, or else.

 

[GEN2REV]

Olivet discourse is Matthew 24:1-25:46. So let us apply your belief that believers are suppose to go through the great tribulation until Christ comes at the very end of the great tribulation when He defends Jerusalem when the world's armies will be marching against it.

There is no Pre-Trib Rapture in the Olivet Discourse.

And isn't it convenient that you totally skipped verse 29 in your presentation.

Which reads, for all the world to see, "Immediately after the tribulation..."

Your thread is done before it even got started.

 

[Christ4Me]

There is no Pre-Trib Rapture in the Olivet Discourse.

And isn't it convenient that you totally skipped verse 29 in your presentation.

Which reads, for all the world to see, "Immediately after the tribulation..."

Your thread is done before it even got started.

Apparently, you did not address all the scripture in that Olivet Discourse which opposes how you applied that verse to mean.

But I will not gloss over that verse but apply it to align with the rest of the scripture in that Olivet Discourse.

There is tribulation, and then there is great tribulation.

There is the falling away from the faith as that "tribulation" for why Jesus warned His disciples to watch or else not be ready for the Bridegroom when He comes.

Then there is that great tribulation where there is no watch because saints are being killed by that beast waging war on the saints; ( you skipped the OP ) There is a huge different between the coming of the Bridegroom in taking those that are ready to Heaven for the Marriage Supper, from the coming of the King of kings to earth to do battle with the world's armies marching against Jerusalem.

 

[Ronald D Milam]

There is no Pre-Trib Rapture in the Olivet Discourse.

And isn't it convenient that you totally skipped verse 29 in your presentation.

Which reads, for all the world to see, "Immediately after the tribulation..."

Your thread is done before it even got started.

Of course there is, verses 36-51. Jesus is asked three questions by his disciples, the fist being when shall these things be (temples destruction) and what will be the sign of your coming and when will the end of the come [end of the age of Satan/Man]. So, Jesus must needs answer all three, not one or two.

He starts out in verses 4-6 explaining the temples destruction, he says let no one deceive you, for many will come in my name (fulfilling John 5:43) saying I am Christ, and will deceive many, and you will hear of wars and rumors of wars (from afar) but don't be troubled by this, this will come to pass, but THE END (70th week) is not yet.

Well, on down Jesus describes how they will know the end, and why they can't be deceived by the 70 AD events. He tells them in verse 14 what brings the end, it will only come when the Gospel has been preached unto all the world, thus they knew as long as they had not reached China, India and Russia to the north, whatever the names at that time, that this end would not be upon them, so when they heard about the fake 70 AD christs the Pharisees put forth to save them from the Roman Fourth Beast, they didn't rush back looking for Jesus, they were told everything they needed to know. Thus verses 4-6 are expressly about the 70 AD events.

Verses 7-14 are about the 2000 some odd year church age, Jesus then tells them about all the sorrows leading up to the birth of the 70th week end. Lots of wars, plagues, famines which will increase like a pregnant woman's pangs until the end (70th week) comes. These COVID 19 deaths are imho, the very end of the birth pang signs. Then Jesus reverts to the disciples lives, he knows he needs to forewarn them about staying faithful until the very end, unlike Judas who betrayed the cause, Paul said we must run the marathon, not a sprint. So, Jesus forewarns them they will all be killed for his names sake. That would be a shock to anyone and when some heard John would be the only one not do die a Martyr they asked Jesus about it, and he told them to let him worry about those things or what is it to you if he lives until my return I think was the answer.

He forewarns them about false prophets in verse 11, which in the church age will be false teachers and preachers, unlike verse 5 which were fake messiahs put forth by the Pharisees/Jewish leaders. All three mentions are in different time periods, in verse 5, 11 and 24, we get 70 AD, the church age and the 70th week tribulation periods. In verse 13 Jesus warns them that the must endure until the end [of their lives] in order to be saved, its not just a sprint. Then in verse 14 we get the key to what the end is, Jesus tells them the Gospel has to be preached unto all the whole world, then the end (70th week) would come.

Transition from the church age to the 70th week means the Rapture happens in between, but Jesus doesn't speak on it openly, because he gave that mission unto Paul. But later on he will indeed tell the disciples about it very subtly, in verses 36-51, because he needs to answer all of their questions.

In verses 15-17 we see the AoD which is the false prophet placing the image of the Beast in the temple where it ought not stand. Then the Jews who have repented will flee Judea unto the mountains. In verse 21 we see there will be great tribulation as never seen before during this 70th week period. In verse 24 we see THE ACTUAL Anti-Christ and False Prophet preforming miracles, each mention as a stated before is a different time period. Then Jesus tells the Jews a key bit of info where they can not be deceived into coming out of their safe zone in the Petra/Bozrah sheep fold area. He tells them not to look for him in the desert, or a secret storage room, but to look for him to come in the Eastern Skies, thus they can never be deceived.

Then we get to your IMMEDIATLEY AFTER THE TRIBULATION point, where Jesus and the Church Saints as shown in Rev. 19, return IMMEDIATELY AFTER the Tribulation of those days which last 1260 days which is why it says THOSE DAYS and not that day. The Rapture is not the Second Coming, the second coming is the second advent, Jesus came as a meek lamb, next he will come to reign as a Lion. These two advents doesn't stop Jesus from coming to earth in between, that a misnomer of a factoid if ever I have seen one. We allow certain words to become their own fact, the two comings are rally two advents, not two comings. Jesus left the earth, went to make the sacrifice, then returned with the gift of the holy spirit, we know thus because he told Mary not to touch him because he hadn't ascended unto the Father yet, then 8 days later he told Thomas to touch his wounds in John chapter 20. So, Mary merely touching Jesus with her sin flesh would have defiled the sacrifice. It was never about two comings, its about two advents. Jesus does return IMMEDIATELY AFTER those days, but the Church is with him, as Rev. 19 clearly explains in vivid detail.

Then in verses 32-35 we get the parable of the fig tree which tells us the return of Jesus to save the Jews is very near because this generation (who saw the Sun and Moon event which starts the Wrath of God) which saw all of these signs would be the generation living during the 70th week Wrath of God.

Then lastly, Jesus gives us the Rapture, one will be taken and one left, and it matches the ratio of the 10 virgins, 5 will make the wedding and 5 will not make it. Half of the church on earth are bankrupt/spiritless Christians who have none of the holy spirit living in their hearts. As in the days of Noah the world were giving in marriage, partying, eating etc. etc. This can only be Pre Trib, no one will be doing this while dodging God's Wrath, believe me, they will be crying and hiding from God's Wrath until the 6th Vial when God allows them a time to regather. Then Jesus will defeat them once and for all at the 7th Vial.

 

[GEN2REV]

There is no Pre-Trib Rapture in the Olivet Discourse.

Of course there is, verses 36-51.

Transition from the church age to the 70th week means the Rapture happens in between, but Jesus doesn't speak on it openly, because he gave that mission unto Paul. But later on he will indeed tell the disciples about it very subtly, in verses 36-51, because he needs to answer all of their questions.

So ...... what happened to the big reveal at the end where you showcase all the Pre-Trib Rapture verses in 36-51?

Where'd that part go?

And did you mean to include verses from Paul definitively teaching Pre-Trib Rapture?

If it's not there, and it's not here, that still leaves us with no Pre-Trib Rapture.

 

[marks]

There is no teaching regarding a gentile church in the Olivette Discourse, being as that gentile church was a mystery only revealed by Paul. Jesus didn't reveal the teaching of the church, Paul did.

Much love!

 

[Christ4Me]

So ...... what happened to the big reveal at the end where you showcase all the Pre-Trib Rapture verses in 36-51?

Where'd that part go?

And did you mean to include verses from Paul definitively teaching Pre-Trib Rapture?

If it's not there, and it's not here, that still leaves us with no Pre-Trib Rapture.

Olivet discourse is Matthew 24:1-25:46. So let us apply your belief that believers are suppose to go through the great tribulation until Christ comes at the very end of the great tribulation when He defends Jerusalem when the world's armies will be marching against it.

Now imagine how bad that will be for believers at the end of the great tribulation when supposedly the beast has been waging war on the saints.

Revelation 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. 8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Revelation 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

How can a believer not watch? Why would Jesus even bother to warn believers to be ready or else then? Jesus describes a world that the saints will be living in as not like the end of the great tribulation.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Believers will be eating and drinking, as well as with marrying and given in marriage along other people. And when the believers are taken, note how one will be working in the field and another grinding at the mill. How can that be when the beast is waging war on the saints to kill them with the sword and with hunger because they do not have the mark of the beast to buy & sell or to even work freely?

 

[GEN2REV]

Olivet discourse is Matthew 24:1-25:46. So let us apply your belief that believers are suppose to go through the great tribulation until Christ comes at the very end of the great tribulation when He defends Jerusalem when the world's armies will be marching against it.

Now imagine how bad that will be for believers at the end of the great tribulation when supposedly the beast has been waging war on the saints.

Revelation 6:7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see. 8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Revelation 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. 7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. 8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. 9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: 17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. 18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

How can a believer not watch? Why would Jesus even bother to warn believers to be ready or else then? Jesus describes a world that the saints will be living in as not like the end of the great tribulation.

Matthew 24:36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

Believers will be eating and drinking, as well as with marrying and given in marriage along other people. And when the believers are taken, note how one will be working in the field and another grinding at the mill. How can that be when the beast is waging war on the saints to kill them with the sword and with hunger because they do not have the mark of the beast to buy & sell or to even work freely?

Not sure why you would reply to somebody else's conversation by re-posting the 1st post of the thread, but ... I guess you gotta keep something going, right?

Is Ronald D Milam another one of your alts?

 

[Ronald D Milam]

So ...... what happened to the big reveal at the end where you showcase all the Pre-Trib Rapture verses in 36-51?

Where'd that part go?

And did you mean to include verses from Paul definitively teaching Pre-Trib Rapture?

If it's not there, and it's not here, that still leaves us with no Pre-Trib Rapture.

Only the Lord can reveal Hs truths unto people. I don't know why you can't see the Rapture, it is not that hard to see to be honest, if one can add 2 + 2 = 4 they should be ale to see it. So, maybe you need to pray more on the subject and search more. TBH, I have never seen one subject that has so many people confused. I can put the facts out all day and you still will not see them from my experience. It is what it is brother.

 

[Christ4Me]

So ...... what happened to the big reveal at the end where you showcase all the Pre-Trib Rapture verses in 36-51?

Where'd that part go?

That part is at the Great White Throne Judgement since they are being cast into the lake of fire. Matthew 25:41 is key.

And did you mean to include verses from Paul definitively teaching Pre-Trib Rapture?

If it's not there, and it's not here, that still leaves us with no Pre-Trib Rapture.

Why is there an order unless there is a rapture event before the great tribulation to separate from those that are Christ's at His coming?

1 Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

Wisdom is needed from the Lord to discern the answers that Jesus is giving to His disciples to which of the 3 questions that was put to Him as it is not done in chronological order, especially when He goes back & forth between the great tribulation and the events leading up to it for believers to avoid it in being watchful & not get left behind, in the Olivet Discourse. Not to mention how He will judge those at the Great White Throne Judgment at the end of that Olivet Discourse.

 

[Christ4Me]

Not sure why you would reply to somebody else's conversation by re-posting the 1st post of the thread, but ... I guess you gotta keep something going, right?

It applies to what you were talking about, since you believe there is no Pre Trib rapture, but if you do not have an answer to that post, then I guess I can understand your deflection here.

But you ought to know to ask Jesus for that answer, right?

Is Ronald D Milam another one of your alts?

No. Not sure why you would think that I would I need another alt.

 

[Christ4Me]

Only the Lord can reveal Hs truths unto people. I don't know why you can't see the Rapture, it is not that hard t0 see t be honest, of one can add 2 + 2 = 4 they should be ale to see it. So, maybe you need to pray more on the subject and search more. TBH, I have never seen one subject tat has so many people confused. I can put the facts out all day and you still will not see them from my experience. It is what it is brother.

Sometimes I think it is because they refuse to believe that Jesus would cast anyone away as per John 6:37-40, but the thing is, they are not being cast out of His kingdom, but cast out from attending the Marriage Reception in that kingdom of Heaven that the five foolish are still a part of in the parable of the ten virgins in Matthew 25:1-13

The irony is some are overlooking why Jesus is warning believers to be ready as it has nothing to do with watching signs; since some believe all saved believers are going no matter what... so what would be the point for watching for signs to be ready?

Then there are some that believe they will go through the great tribulation thinking there is no other coming except one when He comes as the King of kings which is at the end of the great tribulation. Irony is the world's armies know He is coming for why they are marching against Jerusalem. So why tell believers to watch when that ought to be a sure fire sign that He is coming as the King of kings? Yet Jesus says no man will know the hour and to be ready because He will come like a thief in the night. That can only apply to the world we are living in now where the cares of this life can tempt us like Lot's wife to not want to leave it to go to the King's supper in Heaven: Luke 17:26-37 Luke 21:33-36 & Luke 14:15-24

Then there are some that will acknowledge the pre great trib rapture but again, because of John 6:37-40 & Matthew 7:21-23, some would believe those professing believers were not really believers to begin with and so they were never saved for why they were left behind. Yet God thru Paul instructed the church to excommunicate the unrepentant brother from the assembly so why would anyone think every believer will be ready when He comes as the Bridegroom for why He would excommunicate those saved believers not found abiding in Him &His words as His disciples??

Sometimes the rapture is hid to those that do not see it because of what may appear to be conflicting scripture but are not asking the Lord for help to align the truth in His words to see the bigger picture of the truth.

 

[Enoch111]

The Rapture Is NOT in Olivet Discourse

This is the corrected title of this thread. With all the misinformation that is being published, we do not need any more misinformation.

So why is the Rapture NOT in the Olivet Discourse? Because it is the raptured saints who come with Christ at His Second Coming. They were already in Heaven when Christ descends from Heaven (Revelation 19). So this is what happens: And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 1:14,15) ["Ten thousands" = millions]

Who are "the elect" gathered by the angels? They are the believing Jewish remnant from all around the world who will repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ when He comes out of Zion (Jerusalem): And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer [Christ], and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. (Rom 11:26,27)

 

[GEN2REV]

Only the Lord can reveal Hs truths unto people. I don't know why you can't see the Rapture, it is not that hard to see to be honest, of one can add 2 + 2 = 4 they should be able to see it. So, maybe you need to pray more on the subject and search more. TBH, I have never seen one subject that has so many people confused. I can put the facts out all day and you still will not see them from my experience. It is what it is brother.

It's the Emperor's New Clothes.

If you don't have enough faith, you can't see them.

The Pre-Trib Rapture is another doctrine of men that must be taught. It is never understood merely from reading one's Bible alone. God didn't write a book that needed man's explaining. That's an insult to His Majesty and wisdom.

 

[Christ4Me]

This is the corrected title of this thread. With all the misinformation that is being published, we do not need any more misinformation.

So why is the Rapture NOT in the Olivet Discourse? Because it is the raptured saints who come with Christ at His Second Coming. They were already in Heaven when Christ descends from Heaven (Revelation 19). So this is what happens: And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon all, and to convince all that are ungodly among them of all their ungodly deeds which they have ungodly committed, and of all their hard speeches which ungodly sinners have spoken against him. (Jude 1:14,15) ["Ten thousands" = millions]

I understand your P.O.V. but consider this. In Revelation 20:1-6, Satan is defeated and in the pit for a thousand years BEFORE Christ resurrect those that went through the great tribulation. That means for Satan to be defeated, then the world's armies marching against Jerusalem has also been defeated and Jesus as the King of kings, is on earth when that particular resurrection will take place of those that went through the great tribulation.

The use of the term "first resurrection" was explained in verse 5 in deferring from the other resurrection at the Great White Throne Judgment. The apostle John was signifying that the resurrection of those saints that are Christ's at His coming was to happen "first" before the rest of the dead; not that this was the only resurrection.

So those resurrected after the great tribulation are not meeting Christ in the air because He is already on earth with the pre great tribulation raptured saints in that City of God that descended also to earth to live in that New Jerusalem.

None of those resurrected after the great tribulation will live in that City but they can be born there upon visitation while representing Him & that City of God from all over the world in reigning with Him as kings & priests in raising up the coming generations in the 1000 year reign of Christ.

So I can apply what you had referenced with Revelation 20:1-6 in that Jesus came back with the pre great tribulation raptured saints before He resurrect those that went through the great tribulation.

I understand your P.O.V. in how those raptured will turn around and come back with Christ as the King of kings, but no.

There is the appearing of the Bridegroom for why those taken are forever with the Lord in Heaven as Christ the firstfruits and then they that be Christ's at His coming as the King of kings as they will be resurrected after the defeat of the world's armies & Satan when Satan is in the pit.

Who are "the elect" gathered by the angels? They are the believing Jewish remnant from all around the world who will repent and believe on the Lord Jesus Christ when He comes out of Zion (Jerusalem):

And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer [Christ], and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. (Rom 11:26,27)

Luke 13:24-30 has the O.T. saints being raptured up with those abiding in Him as His disciples while those who profess Him but are workers of iniquity, for why they get left behind.

Another reason for why believers get left behind is because they will get snared by the cares of this life ( Luke 21:33-36 ) & not want to leave it ( Luke 17:26-30 ) for the King's Supper; Luke 14:15-24 Imagine the end of the great tribulation when the beast is waging war on the saints to kill them with the sword and hunger because they cannot buy nor sell unless they have the mark of the beast. Now how can they be snared by the cares of this life, to not want to leave it when the King of kings come?

So the warnings for believers to be ready is for the times we are living in now because there is no way a believer will be like Lot's wife to love this life to not leave it behind. What believer would be tempted to do that at the end of the great tribulation? I'd say no one. Time to be ready is now.

 

[GEN2REV]

It applies to what you were talking about, since you believe there is no Pre Trib rapture, but if you do not have an answer to that post, then I guess I can understand your deflection here.

An answer to this?

Believers will be eating and drinking, as well as with marrying and given in marriage along other people. And when the believers are taken, note how one will be working in the field and another grinding at the mill. How can that be when the beast is waging war on the saints to kill them with the sword and with hunger because they do not have the mark of the beast to buy & sell or to even work freely?

Probably because all those who DO have the mark, and are bowing down to the Beast System, will be living normally; not being persecuted or hunted by the Antichrist.

 

[Christ4Me]

It's the Emperor's New Clothes.

If you don't have enough faith, you can't see them.

The Pre-Trib Rapture is another doctrine of men that must be taught. It is never understood merely from reading one's Bible alone. God didn't write a book that needed man's explaining. That's an insult to His Majesty and wisdom.

Could be why in this parable of what makes up the whole of the kingdom of heaven, it is "hid" in 3 measures of meal.

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Care to explain it or apply it?

I'd say it is Christ's the firstfruits at the pre great tribulation rapture event

Then those that are Christ's at His coming

Then those that remain loyal to Jesus after Satan last rebellion for when after the Great White Throne Judgment He gives the kingdom back to the Father because He is done.

 

[Christ4Me]

An answer to this?

Probably because all those who DO have the mark, and are bowing down to the Beast System, will be living normally; not being persecuted or hunted by the Antichrist.

Yet no believer will be having the mark to buy & sell, so why warn believers to be ready or else? That is why His warnings do not apply to the end of the great tribulation for when the King of kings come, but for now for us to be ready or else before the Bridegroom comes.

 

[GEN2REV]

Could be why in this parable of what makes up the whole of the kingdom of heaven, it is "hid" in 3 measures of meal.

Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.

Care to explain it or apply it?

I'd say it is Christ's the firstfruits at the pre great tribulation rapture event

Then those that are Christ's at His coming

Then those that remain loyal to Jesus after Satan last rebellion for when after the Great White Throne Judgment He gives the kingdom back to the Father because He is done.

No I don't because if Pre-Trib Rapture is not a concept taught in scripture, then it's not in the Olivet Discourse anyway and this entire thread has no grounds for being discussed at all.

Since Jesus Himself states FIVE TIMES in the book of John that He will not return until the "Last Day" of the world for His people, your thread has no leg left to stand upon.

John 6:39-40
John 6:44
John 6:54
John 12:48

SIX TIMES in the book of John, we are told that He is coming on the "Last Day."
(An additional verse not spoken by Jesus = John 11:24)

You have to do a pretty elaborate dance to work your way outta that one, but I've been at this long enough to know that you certainly will do one. I could almost write out your response and match it to what you will post.

Let's see.