The Rapture View: The Three Harvests

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Pariah

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Now before we begin, by the grace of God, I would like to point out that believing in the rapture being before the great tribulation is not contingent for you to be raptured. If you are ready and abiding in Him, you will just be surprised. :eek:Another point to declare that it is not wrong or selfish to give the call to be always ready. To say that there is no rapture before hand would cause greater harm because believers being tempted to sin would be misled into thinking that the signs of the great tribulation would be seeing the Temple in Jerusalem being built, and when the anti-christ enters the holy of holies, declaring himself to be God, then they would have three and a half years of more sinning to do before really considering repenting. If anyone out there thinks that way now, hear this! Sowing to the flesh will reap corruption. You may not repent at the time you believe that you will. Also, death can come like a thief in the night so living in sin is not a wise option when you can call on Jesus to deliver you from them so sin shall no longer have dominion over you. The call to be ready is NOW! :pray:Onto the rapture: Consider why it is written and really think about the application. Of course, I trust the Lord to cause the increase as I trust Him to help me post this.Matthew 13:33 Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened.Consider this:pre-tribulation rapture or harvest which is His appearing serves two purposes:#1. Judgment on the House of God which leads to the marriage supper.#2. The despensation of the Gospel will go back to the Jews, hence the 144,000 witnesses as the times of the Gentiles come to an end: Then you have the rapture or harvest which is at His coming back with the previously raptured saints. Then you have another rapture/ harvest.. at the end of the 1000 years reign of Christ when Satan is loosed from the pit afterwards and mislead many... thus the harvest after that great battle.Consider the three watches.Luke 12: 37Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them. 38And if he shall come in the second watch, or come in the third watch, and find them so, blessed are those servants. 39And this know, that if the goodman of the house had known what hour the thief would come, he would have watched, and not have suffered his house to be broken through.Notice how the first watch was on the supper? But it is not mentioned in the second and third watch because that door is shut.Now let us consider the verses that declares otherwise.Revelation 20: 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.Do note the significance of verse 5. It is that first resurrection of those groups of people.. that harvest. Let's look at those groups of believers that were being slain in the great tribulation.Revelation 6: 9And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held: 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth? 11And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled. Remember the question of the wedding garment?Matthew 22: 10So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. 11And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment: 12And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. 13Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. 14For many are called, but few are chosen.And yet this one group of believers were naked that they had to be given a robe. Dead works that deny Him voids faith... thus naked of their wedding garment.Romans 4: 13For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. 14For if they which are of the law be heirs, faith is made void, and the promise made of none effect: 15Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.Do note the weeping and gnashing of teeth as Jesus refers to that about false prophets coming in and misleading many in the churches in Matthew 7:13-27 & Luke 13:24-30. All of this because they did not heed His sayings and did them in building on their relationship of trust with the Lord by faith.The other group of believers that were left behind are those that needed washed by the Blood of the Lamb.Revelation 7: 13And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? 14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb. 15Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them. 16They shall hunger no more, neither thirst any more; neither shall the sun light on them, nor any heat. 17For the Lamb which is in the midst of the throne shall feed them, and shall lead them unto living fountains of waters: and God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes.There will be such weeping and gnashing of teeth that Jesus has to wipe the tears from their eyes to get them past their great loss. Thus they are those that have sown to the flesh and reaping corruption and those that chase after the Holy Spirit which is not the Holy Spirit since He dwells in us as promised for all believers that come to Jesus, but they hunger or thirst for more of that other "spirit" for a continual filling or another baptism, thus departing from the faith in Christ in spite of the hypocrisey that they acknowledge that He is in them... but hardly resting in Him, and thus labouring in unbelief. They all needed washing by the Blood of the Lamb. That is what they get for not abiding in Him, but the Lord bought them with a price and they are His. Now these are judgments on the House of God and why they were left behind at the first rapture. Thus the first resurrection FOR THEM would be mentioned since they shall serve as priests in reigning with Christ for a 1000 years. See how that applies? The first resurrection for them would be that as needed to be stated as other deads were to remain dead until later.Consider how these verses apply below.John 5: 28Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, 29And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation. 30I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me. How can that be if we believe the first resurrection in Revelation to be debunking pre-tribulation rapture? These verses are true for it is applied to each harvest. There is no way they cannot be true.What about the last day?John 6: 38For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me. 39And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. 40And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.....44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.How can this be true if in the first resurrection of Revelation, the scriptures has some deads continue to be dead? Because it is not their last day. Also note verse 40 is a promise for those that love His appearing and believe on Him that got left behind... even if for the very first time they'd believe.1 Corinthians 15: 50Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. 51Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. 55O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory? So how can this be applied? When death is swallowed up. Thus pertaining to the very last day, yes?Revelation 20: 4And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. 5But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. 7And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. 9And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them. 10And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. 11And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. 13And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.Thus death has lost its sting and swallowed up in victory. Thus it was the very last trump as it led to the very last day.1 Thessalonians 4: 13But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18Wherefore comfort one another with these words.Being how this coming of the Lord is in the air, I would believe that would refer to His appearing at the judgment on the House of God as He descends from Heaven with a shout.Hebrews 12: 24And to Jesus the mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling, that speaketh better things than that of Abel. 25See that ye refuse not him that speaketh. For if they escaped not who refused him that spake on earth, much more shall not we escape, if we turn away from him that speaketh from heaven: 26Whose voice then shook the earth: but now he hath promised, saying, Yet once more I shake not the earth only, but also heaven. 27And this word, Yet once more, signifieth the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain. 28Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: 29For our God is a consuming fire.1 Timothy 6:12Fight the good fight of faith, lay hold on eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, and hast professed a good profession before many witnesses. 13I give thee charge in the sight of God, who quickeneth all things, and before Christ Jesus, who before Pontius Pilate witnessed a good confession;14That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:2 Timothy 4: 7I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: 8Henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous judge, shall give me at that day: and not to me only, but unto all them also that love his appearing. Could there be a hidden promise for those that were left behind that became new believers or even wayward believers after loving His appearing? I believe so. :pray3:Those that get left behind can be seen as Jesus finishing His work in them since He shall do the will of the father by losing nothing... thus like the foolish virgins and the prodigal son, they missed out on their first inheritance as well as the marriage supper.Hebrews 12: 4Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin. 5And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: 6For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. 7If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? 8But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. 9Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? 10For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. 11Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby. 2 Timothy 4: 1I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;Again, that can mean the rapture and the coming of His kingdom being seperate.Anyway, the call is to be ready by heeding His sayings and doing them to remain in His grace in keeping the faith in Jesus and all His promises to us.
 

Pariah

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Hi crooner,Yes. One is His appearing which is judgment on the House of God.The other one is when He actually comes with the previously raptured saints to set up His Kingdom for those saints that went through and came out of the great tribulation to reign with Him a 1000 years. Anyway, that is my belief and thus the call to be ready by keeping the faith and not sowing to the flesh as we lean on the Lord, our Good Shepherd to help us do that.Ephesians 2: 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. 1 John 3:3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.Jude 1: 24Now unto him that is able to keep you from falling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory with exceeding joy, 25To the only wise God our Saviour, be glory and majesty, dominion and power, both now and ever. Amen.
 

Pariah

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Hi crooner,I do not mind opposing views. I trust the Lord with my life as I trust Him to take me through the great tribulation if need be. I just believe that we are called to be ready and there are too many signs during the great tribulation for anyone to say that no one can know the day or the hour so that is why I believe it has to be before the great tribulation.Matthew 24: 36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. 37But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 38For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, 39And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. 40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh. 45Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? 46Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Of course, again, believing in the pre-tribulation rapture or not believing it is not contingent in being raptured. It is being ready and found abiding in Him that is the call as some will desire to enter in... even if they believed in the pre-tribulation rapture, but found they were not able to.Luke 13: 24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able. 25When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are: 26Then shall ye begin to say, We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. 27But he shall say, I tell you, I know you not whence ye are; depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity. 28There shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when ye shall see Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets, in the kingdom of God, and you yourselves thrust out. 29And they shall come from the east, and from the west, and from the north, and from the south, and shall sit down in the kingdom of God. 30And, behold, there are last which shall be first, and there are first which shall be last. There is also a teaching that a traditional Jewish honeymoon is seven weeks. The marriage supper and the great tribulation lasting seven years is an amazing parallel.
 
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@Pariah, I commend you brother, each Pre-Tribulation Rapture Believer should have the same sentiment you have towards the Coming of our G-d, Adonai Y'shua HaMashiach! Whether it's the pre-trib or post-tribulation rapture, the Lord tells us to prepare. In titus, Paul writes that we should refrain from Vain conversations, this is a vain conversation, cause Like the scriptures say, The Holy Spirit of Jesus Christ is with us til the Day of our redemption, if we Stay committed to Him and his commandments I truly believe he will Guide us and be with us! AMEN?! AMEN!There's pros and cons to everything, in this case the Pre-trib or post-trib Doctrines. Me I'm just preparing the Way for the Lord Y'shua HaMashiach in my life, just like John the Baptist did on the day of Y'shua's Baptism.For the Pre-Trib believers they tell themselves, there's no need to worry, if we have the Holy Spirit of God in is, If God will take us before the Tribulation we need not to worry, but should the time of Great Tribulation comes and persecution These foolish people will not be ready to fight or take on the Fire!For the Post-Tribulation believers they hold themselves as people who need not to worry about the Rapture before the Tribulation, so instead of preparing now, they'll prepare later. You folks see?The Pre-tribulationist aren't prepared for the Latter Time, should The Great Tribulation come to themThe Post-Tribulationist won't be ready or may even be left behind if they're not prepared now instead of the time during the great Tribulation.Make it imperative that we be prepare ALL TIMES, not to Slumber as the Word of God says! I'm Ready for you Lord!!! Y'SHUA ELI, JESUS MY GOD!
 

Jordan

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And the fact that there is NO such thing as a Rapture. It leaves Christians vulnerable and makes them put their Armour (Ephesians 6) hanging on a wall.Jag
 
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Really? Is that So? Then why do many rapture believers, whether is be pre, post, or mid rapture believers make it so imperative that we be ready no matter what?! If anything, it's a message to be prepared. The Word rapture in today's standards in Christianity has a general connotation, but even the Root word which means to be taken by force. There is a Rapture 1st Corinthians Chapter 15 and 1st Thessalonian Chapter 4, makes it quite apparent. Just be prepared is all I can say, I will not say it's real or fake this and that. Believe that his word is True, that YESHUA HAMASHIACH is the Son of God, is God himself, and will come again. Baruch HaShem Y'shua!
 

Jordan

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Satan is going to come back at the FIFTH/SIXTH trumpet. (II Thessalonians 2) (Revelation 9)As long we are in our flesh body, (I Corinthians 15:50) We will never see Yahshua Christ, the Son of God. Are You Guys Sure Want to Fly Away? Read Ezekiel 13:20, matter fact read the whole chapter.Jag
 
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Why do you think it says in Corinthians that because we cannot see Heaven in Verse 51 of 1st Corinthians 15 its says our bodies will change? If our bodies are to be changed, we will no longer be in this rotten flesh, but then will we be able to See Yeshua HaMashiach!In Ezekiel I see the Point YHWH made in verse 10 of Ezekiel 12, which is Why I won't argue whether the rapture is pre, post, or mid. You don't even believe in the Taking up, when clearly in the same chapter you gave me of 1st Corinthians 15, we are taken up after our bodies are translated, this is the rapture.I know Satan is revealed, The REVELATION of Yeshua To John told him to tell us not to be deceived. Why can't we all just be prepared? The Holy Spirit of Yeshua HaMashiach, RUACH HAKODESH, is with us til the Day of Redemption. So don't slumber, and be awake at all times. HaShem!
 

Jordan

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That's the whole point. We will never see Yahshua in our flesh bodies. But we will see Him in our spiritual bodies.These Rapture preachers is not into God's words. They are into money. (I Timothy 6:10) They say "We don't have to worry about reading Revelation, we will be taken out of here before Satan comes" They're stupid.Jag
 
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Are you going to make a blanketed generalization? I live in Stockton, CA were are indefinite need of a REVIVAL badly! I know poor men, who have NO MONEY preaching about the rapture, so please, on their behalf don't make such generalizations.Philippians 3:21, Before we See Yeshua HaMashiach he will change our bodies like unto his Own, then we will see him and he will rapture us.Baruch HaShem Y'shua HaMashiach Ben Elohim! El Elau Elohim!
 

Jordan

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Okay, I don't need your personal info. This whole world needs Truth. In fact, there is like no talking of the END TIMES today, because people don't want to give out Truth. And when they don't give out Truth, they don't want to offend evil, while let evil get away with it. Most people just let their pastor do their thinking for them. They lead them astray.Now a poor man preaching Rapture with no money...this seems to be a completely different situation than the others who is not poor. So the whole point is we should help the poor people not to leave them on the street.Now I will say this, His Kingdom is going to be on Earth. Why do I want to fly away when the bible says God is coming down to Earth? Heaven is hidden on Earth.I wish I could drive to California...but there is so much people in this country who doesn't want to hear His Word...yet we must continue to tell the Truth. This country is SO Laodiceans...Christianity too busy having sexual relationship with Satan.Jag
 
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I commend you and I say AMEN! Notice how He descends but has not reached the earth Yet. We are translated and we will be with him in the Clouds, but not in Heaven, but since the Sky is the first heaven, technically speaking we are raptured into heaven. Remember there are three realms to heaven. The Sky, remember Elijah Praying to close heaven up? AMEN? Then there is outer space and the Throne of YHWH. In anywhere in my posts did you see me say we are going to be in the Throne of YHWH. We are gonna be with him in the Clouds. Believe me brother, I'm trying to gather as much people to hear to truth like you do. I was baptized into a BIG CHURCH, a rich one at that, but I believe they don't have the truth, they are sheep lead astray by pastors that go with their ways. I believe in the rapture because We are to be with him in the clouds when he descends, in the 1st heaven. Then Judgment amen? When I say Poor people preaching, I mean men who refuse to take money, refuse to live comfortably, men who seldom sleep just to preach the Word. So before you get the rapture wrong, remember we are to meet him in the clouds, the sky, the 1st heaven, not what these people in orthodoxy teach. Then we will be with Yeshua HaMashiach, his elect as he judges Satan's Eden, the world.You're right about America being Laodicea, no doubt about it brother.
 

Jordan

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Here is a thought...Hebrews 12:1 - Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,This cloud of witnesses is the Body. The air can represent "spirits/souls" So it's saying like Christ is coming down to gather the Sea for His Kingdom on Earth.Jag
 

Jordan

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Yes, I'm your brother in Christ.
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JagLovest ye in Christ Yahshua, Lord and Saviour of the world.
 

crooner

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There is a difference between rapture theory and seconed coming meeting Him in the clouds. I think we need to get that straight for future debates. Meeting in the clouds is very clear. we are going up to meet the Lord. We must not get confused over this
 

Christina

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No one is going anywhere God is coming here and I saw a new Jeusalem and Christ will be our King right here on earth. I challenge anyone to show me anywhere in God Word that says we are going anywhere until the 7th trump and the coming of the Lord.
 

crooner

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Thess. meet him in the clouds. You keep trying to change that verse to make it fit some belief system. Wer egoing up weather you like it or not.