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The Real Gospel…

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by skypair, Jan 11, 2017.

  1. skypair

    skypair Member

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    So can I just put a plug in here for the real gospel Acts 2:36-40? There are so many "Christian" gospels out there that it is hard for anyone to really know whether they have obeyed God unto salvation.

    In Acts 2:36-37a, Peter, the Comforter/Holy Spirit, convicts them "of sin, righteousness, and judgment" (Jn 16:8-10) and they were "prickked in their hearts" because they BELIEVED the gospel.

    In Acts 2:38 (and 3:19, 17:30, 20:21, 26:20, etc.), we are commanded to "REPENT" to God so that we might receive FORGIVENESS (justification) and the indwelling of the Holy Ghost (sanctification) from God. We often refer to this repentance as the "sinner's prayer" and it simply means turning from sin and self-directed life and making Jesus Christ Lord of your life.

    Acts 2:39 tells us why Acts 2:38 is part of the gospel message because "these promises are to you, and your children, and to those who are afar off"

    Then Acts 2:40 commands us to "save yourselves from this untoward generation," which was Judaism in that day, by being baptized into the body of Christ, the church.

    skypair
     
  2. skypair

    skypair Member

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    I really posted this because the SBC operates under 2 gospels — one for Calvinists ("faith alone") and one for Traditionalist Baptists ("Repent") .. Calvinists/Sardis having taken over from Philadelphia in recent years.

    skypair
     
  3. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    I'm curious as to what you mean when you say, "Calvinists/Sardis having taken over from Philedelphia". I recognize you're alluding to two of the 7 churches.

    Stranger
     
  4. skypair

    skypair Member

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    My view is that, in the SBC, the liberals who were fought off in the 1980's are now back in charge -- and are a combination of Sardis/Reform and Rich/Laodicean ignorant of God.

    skypair
     
  5. Stranger

    Stranger Well-Known Member

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    I was a member of SBC in the 70's and remember the fight. This is part of the problem of having a SBC Convention over all SBC churches. When the convention is corrupted, then it tends to corrupt all its local churches.

    Stranger
     
  6. 7angels

    7angels Active Member

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    i have a few questions for you on things that are posted above.

    you say In Acts 2:38 (and 3:19, 17:30, 20:21, 26:20, etc.), we are commanded to "REPENT" to God so that we might receive FORGIVENESS (justification) and the indwelling of the Holy Ghost (sanctification) from God. We often refer to this repentance as the "sinner's prayer" and it simply means turning from sin and self-directed life and making Jesus Christ Lord of your life.

    how can we receive justification if we are already justified in Christ? if we receive justification then aren't we earning it instead of receiving it as a gift? rom 4:25.

    God bless
     
  7. skypair

    skypair Member

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    Absolutely! I'm with you. The problem I see is that there are now 2 gospels in the SBC. That is the reason for this thread. There is only one gospel .. and I am suggesting that it MUST be or follow the pattern of Acts 2:36-40.

    Compounding the problem is Jn 20:23. When Jesus gave His disciples that Holy Spirit (20:21), He next gave them the ability to remit sins in heaven or retain sins according to their discernment. We see how this worked at Pentecost (3000 added to the church). But here are some other passages that press the issue:

    1) Philip and the eunuch. What did Philip say to the sunuch when the eunuch wanted to be baptized? He said, "If you believe with all your heart." This is a testimony that he had not just changed his mind and believed in Christ but that he had changed his heart — his soul was saved. (Acts 6)

    2) Peter and Simon Magus, remember? Simon had believed and been baptized but Peter told him that he wasn't saved saying, "You have no part or lot in this matter" and insisted that he REPENT "if perhaps God the thought of your HEART may be forgiven thee." There's that "heart" — soul salvation — again. (Acts 8)

    And there is that discernment that Christ, I believe, gives to, at least pastors who are born again, to know whether someone else is saved or not. In fact, Paul seems to echo this when he said, "But the spiritual man judges all things yet he himself is judged of no man." (1Cor 2:15)

    skypair
     
  8. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    will the real Gospel please stand up lol
     
  9. skypair

    skypair Member

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    I'm sorry I didn't respond earlier. :(

    Our sins are forgiven in God's eyes .. but they are not forgiven in our souls. The whole purpose of justification through repentance is to "reconcile" ourselves to God (2Cor 5:20) .. meaning that we our conscience is "washed" pure from sin (Titus 3:5) and we are given the Holy Spirit of God in place of our old sin nature.

    This reconciliation turning from our thoughts and ways (Isa 55:7) makes us "sons" and God gives gifts only to His own children. So before we are given gifts, God gives us nothing. That makes perfect sense, right? Does God give gifts to His enemies — which we were before we believed and then repented?

    skypair
     
  10. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    those you will wish to be someday are risking their lives in schemes of peaceful resistance.


    it might be useful to examine what you actually repented of. if anything. there is a man who puts his house in order, sweeps up, gets the cobwebs out of the corner, and then becomes seven times worse off than he was before. Who is this guy?
     
  11. skypair

    skypair Member

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    Who was this guy? Jesus was talking about "this wicked generation," (Mt 12:45) the house of Israel. Lk 11:14-26 makes it even clearer. Jesus had been casting out devils. Likewise, while Jesus lived, He drove many of hte "unclean spirits" out of Israel taking their armor, their strength, with Him. But when He died, the unclean spirit brought 7 more spirits back into the Pharisees and they took off against Jesus with 7 times more vengeance than they had gone after Him. Notice in Lk 11:23 .. "those that gather not with me scatter." Well, that is what happened to the disciples once Jesus was dead, right?

    There were also converts among the Pharisees who gathered with Jesus after His death.

    Anyway, this doesn't have to do with Christians. When the Spirit "sweeps and garnishes" the house, He takes up permanent residence therein.

    skypair
     
  12. 7angels

    7angels Active Member

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    wait minute. were we or were we not reconcile to God through Christ? if what you say is true when you say "The whole purpose of justification through repentance is to "reconcile" ourselves to God." then it is we ourselves who are earning it.

    where are you getting your philosophy from that says our sin are forgiven in God's eyes but not forgiven in our souls? it is God who convicts us of our wrong doing correct? if so then once God forgives us He is no longer condemning us correct? so who is condemning your soul to keep making you feel guilty then? was it God? no it is the devil trying to convince you that Jesus' blood was not good enough for you and your sin is just too great. it is just a trick the devil uses to keep us from experiencing the God has for us.

    again we did not exchange our sin nature for the Holy Spirit. the Holy Spirit made us new creatures. now we just need to get rid of the bad habits we learned in the sin nature and start reaching for the best God has for us.

    ​you also say God does not give gifts to His enemies but you are wrong. does not God send rain on the just and unjust alike? now God does favor/bless some more than others. but it is not because of any reason except that these people are meeting the conditions of promises in the bible that are necessary to receive these promises. if everyone went after these promises then they too would be more abundantly blessed/favored. but it is up to each individual to decide how much they wish to be blessed from God. everyone wants the blessing but few are willing to do what is necessary to receive them.

    God bless
     
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  13. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    ah, so the passage is historical, and has no application to any believer today, gotcha. Thanks.
     
  14. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    also, then someone who has "accepted Christ" must no longer sin, in this case. The end of this is "Hitler is saved," of course, because Hitler "accepted Christ," too.
     
  15. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    And so I made a post just for teh righteous who no longer sin right here.

    So far no one has put there name there, for if they did they would be lying and sinners.

    Cant escape that one. Sin is all about the flesh its not teh flesh we are trying to save.
     
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  16. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    nice. But we are cautioned not to try and save our own souls, either...which sure seems counter-intuitive, huh? What do you make of that?
     
  17. mjrhealth

    mjrhealth Well-Known Member

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    Be bvery presumptious to think one could, or is it spitting in teh Face of Jesus, thinking His work is not required??
     
  18. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    yet we both rail against the Nehushtan-worshippers, those who have made the Bible into God, and claim to know Christ, and btw have perfectly valid logic lines to follow in Scripture, that you and i--or at least i--believed at one time. And i'm sure even you would admit to having known good hearts in that model (assuming you were ever in it--maybe not?). So i guess it depends upon how one interprets the passage (keeping "Seek your own salvation" in mind, also). Most of the 4 Witnesses to the passage (whoever seeks to save his soul (life) will lose it) put it in the context of someone who prefers worldly comfort over self sacrifice, and avoids any "hating their life" or "pick up their cross" stuff in life; and the 4 have 3 different conclusions, but the Luke 17 one, 37Where, Lord?" they asked Him. He said to them, "Where the corpse is, there also the vultures will be gathered" is a telling conclusion imo; that i don't recall ever hearing a sermon on. "Corpse" (soma) is the same word used for "body," and while this conclusion may again be interpreted different ways, most of the interpretations--with Jesus' Body or the Body of Christ (us) being the most obvious allusions--are not very comfortable to contemplate.


    So, i don't think it is too far afield to suggest that there is a way to claim Christ and yet be spitting in His face, so to speak; and its corollary, there is a way to deny Christ and yet be considered "accepted," as much other Scripture informs us. Sticking with the first case, imo we have sheep (who are "led") and have no desire to be hypocrites, and seek to change their minds, and we have wolves in sheep's clothing, who will not be led, and seek to sit on a fence, and also to recruit as many others as possible into the scheme, under the cover of "following Christ." And of course there are divisions even within that, one can do the last in ignorance, or in hypocrisy, pick a Saul there. One either relents when confronted with their hypocrisies, or they do not. And of course we can be blind to this in ourselves, even as they are so obvious to everyone else.

    And, since it is of course all about me, which one am i? I am both of them, of course; as tempting as it is to claim otherwise, or to claim that Christ somehow instantly resolved or covered all of my hypocrisies at profession, rendering my "claiming otherwise" moot, or whatever. OSAS, iow. Of course the deficiency there might be that you have chosen the wrong concept of "once saved," as Scripture both refutes and leads one to.

    No one--for the most part--consciously spits in Christ's Face, of course. Not even Hitler, right? But other people, people who disagree with us, no problem! Lol.
     
  19. H. Richard

    H. Richard Active Member

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    **
    So we are Jews?

    Peter is talking to the Jews who realized that Jesus was their Messiah and King. The promises were made to the Jews. There were Jews who were living in other nations. To assume Peter was talking about the Gentiles is illogical since Peter didn't know the Gentiles would be included until God gave him a vision.

    Peter did not start the church built on God's grace. Paul did.
     
  20. skypair

    skypair Member

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    Wow! Really??

    The promises are to all who will be saved into the new covenant of grace. There are NO promises to those who are lost .. or do you know something I don't know?

    And is it your claim that those at Pentecost were not "church?" Peter was the apostle to the Jews and Paul to the Gentiles .. but they both preached the same gospel, HR.

    skypair
     
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