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I have heard this explanation before, but it is simply a belief to which people subscribe. Should we all adhere to it or embrace it simply because others do? So then what do these verses mean?Jesus is less than the Father in His humanity.
In His deity He is the Father.
All who are born of God are sons.God is our Father. And our Creator. He creates by His Word. We are created by the Word of Jesus to be the Child or the Son. If Jesus is the Word then who is the Real Son?
You continue to promote this heresy while misunderstanding and misapplying the meaning of "the everlasting Father" to Jesus.So either Jesus became the Father or else He was the Father from the beginning of His life;
Interesting! Jesus is the Word of God only to the extent God has spoken. What He has not spoken is not yet the Word and therefore is not yet part of Jesus. Wrapping one's head around that without God's help is nigh onto impossible... but then again:
"And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible" Mark 10:27
Christ is a Father with respect to chosen men, who were given him as his children and offspring in covenant; who are adopted into that family that is named of him, and who are regenerated by his Spirit and grace: and to these he is an "everlasting Father"...
...He is the everlasting Father, or the Father of eternity; he is God, one with the Father, who is from everlasting to everlasting. He is the author of everlasting life and happiness to them, and so is the Father of a blessed eternity to them. He is the Father of the world to come...
KEIL & DELITZSCH
...The title Eternal Father designates Him, however, not only as the possessor of eternity (Hengstenberg), but as the tender, faithful, and wise trainer, guardian, and provider for His people even in eternity (Isaiah 22:21). He is eternal Father, as the eternal, loving King, according to the description in Psalm 72....
I have heard this explanation before, but it is simply a belief to which people subscribe. Should we all adhere to it or embrace it simply because others do?
So then what do these verses mean?
"Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet
The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all." I Cor 15:24-27
Valid to some, and perhaps correct, but I haven't seen it so clearly yet, so still I won't embrace it. I will simply trust God without having a more specific identification. He is, most certainly, and will given us what is needed when it is needed, if we keeping of trusting.It is a valid explanation that preserves the identity of Jesus Christ as the Son of God, the everlasting Father.
Thank you for taking the time to present your view. I have nothing more definite although I am sure on some points if pressed I would likely differ. I simply take the verses of scripture as they come and as God gives me an interpretation when He does. Many of them I don't understand yet, but how often do we need them simply to converse or debate with anyone? God has more important tasks for us. He will provide what is needed when it is needed without a doubt if we are simply ready and willing. He is God!The Father who inhabiteth eternity descended into time and took on human flesh. He is outside of time; and He is also the Lord of heaven and earth. Jesus, the Son, is the descended Father. And the Father who inhabiteth eternity remains in eternity as the singular Lord of everything. But He also descended into time and from time's perspective He is bringing all things in subjection to the Lordship of the Son. Once all have been brought into subjection to the Lordship of the Son, the Son (the descended Father) will submit to His former self (God the Father) because God the Father is Omniscient, Omnipotent, and Omnipresent and when He gives the Lordship of creation to His future self, He does not relinquish it from Himself but retains Lordship over all of creation.
Valid to some, and perhaps correct, but I haven't seen it so clearly yet, so still I won't embrace it.
Then He died on the Cross, saying to the Father, Into thy hands I commend my Spirit; which Spirit was then poured out on the early church on the Day of Pentecost and has been in the church ever since.Jesus is the Word because He embodied the Word - He lived it through obedience in a manner that no one can live it.
In a sense Jesus and His words are the same thing. Jesus is God's spoken message made flesh.God is our Father. And our Creator. He creates by His Word. We are created by the Word of Jesus to be the Child or the Son. If Jesus is the Word then who is the Real Son?
If Christ was the Father no one could see His face and live.
The Life of the Word was God that became our Father.
John 14
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Yep. I agree. He is the Word of God.
John 1
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
This was the Creator that became our Father.
John 14
7 If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.
8 Philip saith unto him, Lord, shew us the Father, and it sufficeth us.
9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?
10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.
Actually we are born of God. As only a Birth by our Father can make us a True Son of God.
John 1
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
You and others have already decided what God is. I have not been so quick to presume I fully understand the nature of God, nor do I blindly follow the beliefs of others. I simply believe and allow God to fill the blanks when and if He chooses to do so. I believe Jesus is God because I believe the scriptures:How is it possible, in your mind, that Jesus is God (for you have said that you believe that He is) and yet less than the Father; if it is not in His humanity that this is the case?
For the Jehovah's Witnesses use the scripture in question as an argument in denial of Christ's Deity; and we say in favour of Christ's Deity that it is only in His humanity that He is less than the Father.
Again you presume your definition of God as well as your definition of Jesus are absolute, while they are simply what you believe. Who and what is God? Is He not as he defines Himself rather than what I say or what you say?But if He is truly less than the Father in any other way, how is He also God?
Jesus distinguishes Himself from God and implies that He is not "good."
Nevertheless the following scriptures are true and faithful:God the Father of all has all knowledge and complete authority, Jesus does not.
Very good, my friend! You have collected some good verses in support of what you believe. I can see why, but I already knew about everyone of those verses. Not one of those scriptures do I reject. On the contrary, but all the more reason NOT to draw conclusions which allow for less or more than what is written.Nevertheless the following scriptures are true and faithful:
1Co 12:3, Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
1Co 8:6, But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.
Jesus and the Father are the same Lord; for the Father is Lord (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21); and there is only one Lord (Ephesians 4:5).
Therefore the fact that Jesus appears to not have all authority would seem to be because of, in part, His humanity. It is His former self who is Omniscient and better able to decide who will sit at Jesus' right hand and at His left. But His former self is still Jesus Christ; for it is written, that, whatsoever spirit confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God.
This is true whether you believe that Jesus was eternally begotten or whether you believe that He was begotten in the incarnation, as Luke 1:35 declares.
Personally, I do not believe that 1/3 of God descended to become a Man; and neither do I believe that it was a 2nd God who did this. God is one; and we would all do well to believe this (James 2:19).
God is able to walk and chew gum simultaneously.God is our Father. And our Creator. He creates by His Word. We are created by the Word of Jesus to be the Child or the Son. If Jesus is the Word then who is the Real Son?