The Road To Perfection

[Stumpmaster]

It's a good metaphor, this idea that we are on a spiritual journey. In Ephesians 4:1 Paul appeals to the saints to walk worthy of the vocation they are called to, and in 4:17 not to walk as others in the vanity of their mind having their understanding darkened and being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them because of the blindness of their heart. I tend to picture the literal act of walking whenever the word is used in Scripture but of course when it is a figure of speech it refers to regular actions and conduct.

Gal 5:25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Here there is an abiding state and an acting state. Because we are co-habitating with the Holy Spirit we are required to co-operate with the Holy Spirit. Walking in this sense is more than just locomotion but rather a measured step.

A journey involves distance, direction, duration, and destination. There are also dangers to be aware of, - I think of Paul and his physical journeys.

But Paul also alludes to his spiritual journey on the road to perfection.
Php 3:12-14
(12) Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
(13) Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
(14) I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

Something or someone is perfect when they are complete.

There are so many Bible verses that can be associated with the road to perfection but here's one for the road before you post others:
Psa 119:104-105
(104) Through thy precepts I get understanding: therefore I hate every false way.
(105) Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

 

[amadeus]

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matt 5:48

 

[Episkopos]

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matt 5:48

In Hebrew that word would be "tamim".

With the tamim God will be tamim...(Ps. 18)

Jesus warned us to become as little children....innocent as doves in regard to any kind of evil.

So then this is the kind of righteousness God is looking for in us...tamim.

If we lose that innocence...we lose our perfection. We become tainted and spotted by the world. So we are to keep our garments clean.

When Adam sinned he immediately lost his tamim....and his life with God. So then sinning against tamim is a sin that leads to death (separation) from God.

This is eternal.

 

[ScottA]

It is important to realize that Paul wrote the seeds of the faith to be planted throughout all of the gentile world to the ends of the earth. In that particular "walk", he said that he "became all things to all people, that he might save some." He could have claimed, and it would have been true for himself, that he had in fact attained his perfection in Christ, for he was "in Christ" and "Christ in" him. He very well could have added to his claims of having already being "crucifi[ed] and rais[ed] up with Christ", and said "I am." But for the sake of those among whom he walked he suffered their walk with them, and made no such claim, even though it was true, for he said also, "For me, to live is Christ" whom is perfect.

So, then, if we may gleam also from Paul and follow also his unclaimed reality, we too will walk without claim though we have attained our perfection in Christ - for we have attained Him...already. This we do for the same reason of serving the unsaved, because we have been saved, and yet have been left in the world for this purpose until the end.

 

[bbyrd009]

"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect." Matt 5:48

weird how that ends up being some guy who just messed up huh, rather than someone who just finally got it right

 

[bbyrd009]

When Adam sinned he immediately lost his tamim....and his life with God. So then sinning against tamim is a sin that leads to death (separation) from God.

This is eternal.

imo it is the confession that leads to salvation--that Adam and Eve did not fail to accomplish--that is eternal, or more eternal maybe

they didn't say "no, we didn't eat," even though they could have
they even gave us a template for defining "justification" that we of course completely ignore, but that's prolly a diff thread. maybe not tho

 

[Episkopos]

So, then, if we may gleam also from Paul and follow also his unclaimed reality, we too will walk without claim though we have attained our perfection in Christ - for we have attained Him...already. This we do for the same reason of serving the unsaved, because we have been saved, and yet have been left in the world for this purpose until the end.

I see a difference between an unclaimed reality...and an unfulfilled reality. Christ in us is the same potential we all have to obtain the full stature of Christ...both in an experience of grace AND a maturity worked into our souls.

We have not all attained...not even close. Many run in vain or not at all. Especially in this climate of hostility to the truth. It's hard enough with encouragement...this attaining to Christ...but with a strong opposition, none but the strongest will make any headway.

What we need is a realization of the purpose of His grace in us. Or else we frustrate the grace of God.

 

[Episkopos]

imo it is the confession that leads to salvation--that Adam and Eve did not fail to accomplish--that is eternal, or more eternal maybe

they didn't say "no, we didn't eat," even though they could have
they even gave us a template for defining "justification" that we of course completely ignore, but that's prolly a diff thread. maybe not tho

Adam not only sinned but he also hid himself....due to his loss of innocence. God had to go find him. His confession was an excuse...that Eve made him do it. Of course Eve would say...the devil made me do it. But they couldn't deny the fact that they had eaten. Their whole perception of life was changed in that moment...for all time.

 

[bbyrd009]

Adam not only sinned but he also hid himself....due to his loss of innocence. God had to go find him. His confession was an excuse...that Eve made him do it. Of course Eve would say...the devil made me do it. But they couldn't deny the fact that they had eaten. Their whole perception of life was changed in that moment...for all time.

yes, they did justify, but they also confessed, "i ate." The justifications serve to illuminate the sin even more maybe, to us in hindsight, but we do not generally even define justifications in this way now, do we. Sin comes with justifications, and justifications are evidence of sin

 

[Episkopos]

yes, they did justify, but they also confessed, "i ate." The justifications serve to illuminate the sin even more maybe, to us in hindsight, but we do not generally even define justifications in this way now, do we. Sin comes with justifications, and justifications are evidence of sin

A righteous person admits his sins. But he also seeks to make restitution.

One day Jesus went to a house of one Zacchaeus. He has extorted more money ,as a tax collector, than he should have. He decided to repay double or more to those he had thus robbed.

Jesus declared salvation had come to his house.

The righteous are weak....and scarcely saved, but they are sorry for their sins and seek to make things right.

 

[ScottA]

I see a difference between an unclaimed reality...and an unfulfilled reality. Christ in us is the same potential we all have to obtain the full stature of Christ...both in an experience of grace AND a maturity worked into our souls.

We have not all attained...not even close. Many run in vain or not at all. Especially in this climate of hostility to the truth. It's hard enough with encouragement...this attaining to Christ...but with a strong opposition, none but the strongest will make any headway.

What we need is a realization of the purpose of His grace in us. Or else we frustrate the grace of God.

I'm not sure I would consider us who have strength in Christ, the strongest, but rather the weakest - "the poor in spirit." By weakness we came out of the cold willingly once our fight was at an end. And though in grace I would be inclined to past out blankets to those still out in that cold, I should probably hold out my hand and say instead, just as He did, "Come to me."

Nonetheless, I appreciate your heart and words of grace. Thank you!

 

[Episkopos]

I'm not sure I would consider us who have strength in Christ, the strongest, but rather the weakest - "the poor in spirit." By weakness we came out of the cold willingly once our fight was at an end. And though in grace I would be inclined to past out blankets to those still out in that cold, I should probably hold out my hand and say instead, just as He did, "Come to me."

Nonetheless, I appreciate your heart and words of grace. Thank you!

Thank you Scott. It's good to chat with a brother.

 

[amadeus]

weird how that ends up being some guy who just messed up huh, rather than someone who just finally got it right

People have their own definition of perfection [completion?] which they are quick to apply to what they read in scripture and to their own expectations or plans as they walk through their time here. Even without a more complete definition or better translation such our provided by our friend @Episkopos in post #3 God had long ago showed me that perfection is what He says it is. Our difficulty may be a lack of "eyes to see" and "ears to hear" with regard to what is written in the scripture about perfection.

Your backward rendering of it, "guy who just messed up" as opposed to the one "who just finally got it right" is very close probably to where it is to be found. All of us have probably known or at least met some "perfect" people according to God. The perfection of God in Job was not found in his desire to reason with God to convince him of his own correctness. The perfection of God in David was not found in his acts of adultery and murder. Yet both of these men pleased God. Where is the perfection? How can Amadeus be perfect? How can bbyrd009 be perfect? How can anyone be perfect? How about by following the lead of the Holy Ghost?

 

[icxn]

...A journey involves distance, direction, duration, and destination. There are also dangers to be aware of, - I think of Paul and his physical journeys.

Like a journey through the sea with such dangers as winds, rocks, whirlpools, pirates, hurricanes, shallows, monsters and waves. A rock in the soul we may consider to be fierce and sudden anger. A whirlpool is hopelessness which seizes the mind and strives to drag it to the depths of despair. A shallow is ignorance which accepts what is bad as good. A monster is this heavy and savage body with its lusts. Pirates are the most dangerous servants of vainglory who steal our cargo and the hard-won earnings of the virtues. A wave is a swollen and burdened stomach which by its greed hands us over to the beast. A hurricane is pride that casts us down from heaven, that carries us up to the sky and then down to the abyss. (cf. St John Climacus)

 

[Enoch111]

God had long ago showed me that perfection is what He says it is.

And I expect that that would be the perfection of God Himself.

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. (Mt 5:48)

 

[amadeus]

And I expect that that would be the perfection of God Himself.

Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. (Mt 5:48)

How like Him are we to be? Perhaps the perfection that God expects of us is in doing all that we can with what He has given us. What did He give David? What did you give Job? What has He given us that neither of them always had? How about the Holy Ghost dwelling in us ever ready to lead us?

Not so simple to describe God is it or even to describe what it is that God expects us to be. We may be unable to describe it but God has certainly made it possible for us be it.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I sometimes think our perfection is just...honesty, rather cover-ups. Miss the mark and have the humility to admit you have.