1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The sacrifice

Discussion in 'Non-Christian General Discussion' started by Avagabond, Mar 22, 2022.

  1. Avagabond

    Avagabond Member

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    37
    Faith:
    Agnostic
    Country:
    Canada
    What was the big deal of what Christ sacrificed?
    It must have even very big decision, because in the garden when faced with what was about to come, he asked that it be passed from him.
    He also sweat great drops of blood when making his decision.
    Didn’t he know that he would be killed but rise up on the third day and be seated next to the father?
    Three days in the grave and later to be King of kings for eternity doesn’t sound like such a big deal when one considers the reward. After all he could see it was necessary, couldn’t he?
    What did he lose?
    What if he said no?
     
  2. I.O.U

    I.O.U Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,061
    Likes Received:
    255
    Faith:
    Agnostic
    Country:
    Australia
    Yeah exactly. Could Jesus say no?
     
  3. Lifelong_sinner

    Lifelong_sinner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,110
    Likes Received:
    716
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    would you want to go through the torture He did?? Especially knowing He was innocent. I know i wouldnt. He died for us because He knew His death literally meant the possibility for some to escape hell. If i have a tooth ache, and know a dentist can fix it, i’d still be nervous about going to the dentist.
     
    Lambano likes this.
  4. Lifelong_sinner

    Lifelong_sinner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,110
    Likes Received:
    716
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    He could have, but He used judas’ betrayal to glorify God. Man’s plans cant stop God’s plans.
     
  5. Windmillcharge

    Windmillcharge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,241
    Likes Received:
    1,405
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    He was fully human and was experiencing the terror of ancitipated pain.

    This would be made worse as he knew what he was going to suffer.

    Wecan be incapcitated by mental anguish and physical pain or by the anticipation of such pain.

    Add to this the knowledge of Spiritual pain. The pain of becomeing what he hated. the pain of experiencing the very real consquences of being rejected by God the Father.

    Jesus became sin, he carried All our sin in himself and suffered the full wrath of a Holy God.

    As he knew this would happen is it any wonder that he asked if he could avoid it.
    That he didn't say No is testiment to his love for us.
     
  6. EloyCraft

    EloyCraft Active Member

    Messages:
    556
    Likes Received:
    170
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Jesus would have never tasted death if we didn't kill Him.
    You and I, we can't choose to die. We can't avoid it.
    But Jesus' body did not inherit death.
    So for Him death was that much more tragic because the loss is that much greater. That is why it's a perfect sacrifice. Jesus had a life to give no one else did.
     
    Philip James likes this.
  7. Avagabond

    Avagabond Member

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    37
    Faith:
    Agnostic
    Country:
    Canada
    I agree he lost his life and didn’t need to, but he was three days in the grave and is now risen to rule and reign.
    Three days and then return to perfection, he lost his human car out and went to be with the father, paving a way for all creation! Doesn’t sound that bad, I suspect we don’t see the whole picture.
     
  8. Avagabond

    Avagabond Member

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    37
    Faith:
    Agnostic
    Country:
    Canada
    Yes I agree but remember it was only a day of extreme pain and shame, three days in the grave and back to paradise with the father. I suspect there was more he faced.
     
    AceWestfall08 likes this.
  9. Lambano

    Lambano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,537
    Likes Received:
    5,058
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Did he "know"? Or being human, like us, did he have to trust God, like we do?
     
    Jim B likes this.
  10. Lifelong_sinner

    Lifelong_sinner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,110
    Likes Received:
    716
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    you seem to just blow off the whole torture and dying on a cross bit, like it was just a papercut. Torture for him was just like torture for us. Jesus was 100% man, 100% God.
     
    Lambano and Philip James like this.
  11. Avagabond

    Avagabond Member

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    37
    Faith:
    Agnostic
    Country:
    Canada
    Let me as you this, would you do the same thing if you knew it would bring eternal world peace?
    Remember, once you wake up from the dead your one of the fathers favorited.
    I would do it if only to save one of my loved ones from certain death.
    What if kidnappers have taken some young children you know and threatened to brutally rape and murder them unless you were willing to under the same treatment as Christ?
    I wouldn’t have to think for a second before deciding.
    My point to this isn’t to belittle the sacrifice but to look deeper into it.
     
    Lambano likes this.
  12. Avagabond

    Avagabond Member

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    37
    Faith:
    Agnostic
    Country:
    Canada
    Good question, did he trust God or did he see God?
    When he said, “as I see the father do i do and as I hear him speak so I speak” did he see and hear in general or in detail?
    I’m a forestry worker, my father taught me, he’s dead now so I can’t ask him about situations.
    However when I have to stop and consider the best way to approach difficult situations I reflect on how my father would handle it.
    Just curious.
     
  13. I.O.U

    I.O.U Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,061
    Likes Received:
    255
    Faith:
    Agnostic
    Country:
    Australia
    He could have said no, and denied himself?
     
    Philip James likes this.
  14. Lifelong_sinner

    Lifelong_sinner Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,110
    Likes Received:
    716
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    the Father’s will be done…. No one can stop His plan.
     
    Philip James likes this.
  15. Lambano

    Lambano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,537
    Likes Received:
    5,058
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Good question. We don't have access to the inner workings of Jesus's mind. If he did hear his Father speak in the garden, he would still have to trust Him, wouldn't he?
     
  16. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,068
    Likes Received:
    1,618
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    I have toothache in one of my back teeth. The nerve has died and if left an abscess could form, so I am having it out on Monday morning. I could have a root canal to save the tooth, but $2000 to get it done by a specialist is a bit steep for me. Having it out is much less expensive. Yep, I feel a bit nervous about it after the dentist told me about the worst case scenario seeing that it is a back tooth with a long root to it.
     
  17. Avagabond

    Avagabond Member

    Messages:
    63
    Likes Received:
    37
    Faith:
    Agnostic
    Country:
    Canada
    True enough, we trust the ones we truly love.
    Are you in agreement of Jesus Christ and the Father being one and the same?
     
  18. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,068
    Likes Received:
    1,618
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    If Jesus had said no, then none of us could be saved He knew that the whole point of HIs birth and ministry was to be our substitute for sin, to have the eternal wrath of God for sin poured out on Him and for Him to die and be raised from the dead. It was not being crucified that caused His sweat to be as great drops of blood (He actually didn't sweat actual blood), and to experience the horror of what He was about to do. It was having the Father turn HIs back on Him. For Jesus, that was the ultimate horror and darkness, to not only have His Father, for the first time in eternity turn HIs back on Him, but to be exposed to the Father's eternal wrath for sin. In the face of all that, He said to the Father, "Not my will, but Yours be done."
     
  19. Paul Christensen

    Paul Christensen Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,068
    Likes Received:
    1,618
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    New Zealand
    No. When Jesus was in the garden praying, He was not praying to Himself.
     
  20. Lambano

    Lambano Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,537
    Likes Received:
    5,058
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Ay caramba. I don't want to get dragged into that goat rodeo.

    The classic Trinitarian statement is that God is "three distinct persons sharing one essence", only they used some fancy Greek terms. I have no freakin' idea how that works out here in the real world. But Jesus and his Father clearly related to each other as separate persons in the Biblical narrative, so I would conclude it did take trust on Jesus's part.
     
Loading...