The shed blood of Jesus is everything that matters

[H. Richard]

The shed blood of Jesus is everything that matters

Heb 9:22
22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.
NKJV --- NOTE: remission = forgiveness, pardon, cancellation of debt, etc.

Isa 53:6
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
NKJV --- NOTE: all of mankind’s iniquities (sins) were laid on Jesus at the cross.

When Jesus shed His blood on the cross all the iniquities (sins) of the world were cancelled, pardoned, forgiven, atoned for, paid for.

Agree or disagree?

 

[FHII]

The shed blood of Jesus is everything that matters

Heb 9:22
22 And according to the law almost all things are purified with blood, and without shedding of blood there is no remission.
NKJV --- NOTE: remission = forgiveness, pardon, cancellation of debt, etc.

Isa 53:6
6 All we like sheep have gone astray; We have turned, every one, to his own way; And the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
NKJV --- NOTE: all of mankind’s iniquities (sins) were laid on Jesus at the cross.

When Jesus shed His blood on the cross all the iniquities (sins) of the world were cancelled, pardoned, forgiven, atoned for, paid for.

Agree or disagree?

All sins of the flesh.... Absolutely agree!

 

[farouk]

"And can it be that I should gain
An interest in the Saviour's blood,
Died He for me, who caused Him pain...?"

Indeed! "Amazing love!"

 

[Mungo]

When Jesus shed His blood on the cross all the iniquities (sins) of the world were cancelled, pardoned, forgiven, atoned for, paid for.

Agree or disagree?

I disgree.

 

[H. Richard]

Covered vs. pardoned

In the garden, after Eve and Adam sinned, God shed the blood of an animal to get skins to cover their nakedness. -- Gen 3:21 Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. NKJV

This was a prelude to the Temple worship where the sacrificial animal’s blood covered the sins of the people. It is important to understand that because the people’s sins were only covered their spirits could not go to heaven.

Jesus’ story of the rich man and the beggar (Luke 16:19-26) shows that during the time from the garden and Jesus walking on this earth everyone that had their sins covered by God were not allowed into heaven but were kept in a place of paradise along side of the place of torment.

The sins of the world were not pardoned (paid for) until Jesus shed His blood to pay for them. This is the reason Jesus went to paradise, to set the captives free. Paradise is no longer beside the place of torment.

Today the spirit of those that have faith in what Jesus did on the cross are in heaven with the old testament saints awaiting the resurrection of their bodies during the rapture (caught up). Their spirits are in heaven because Jesus has already paid the full price for their sins.

 

[Mungo]

Covered vs. pardoned

In the garden, after Eve and Adam sinned, God shed the blood of an animal to get skins to cover their nakedness. -- Gen 3:21 Also for Adam and his wife the Lord God made tunics of skin, and clothed them. NKJV

This was a prelude to the Temple worship where the sacrificial animal’s blood covered the sins of the people. It is important to understand that because the people’s sins were only covered their spirits could not go to heaven.

Jesus’ story of the rich man and the beggar (Luke 16:19-26) shows that during the time from the garden and Jesus walking on this earth everyone that had their sins covered by God were not allowed into heaven but were kept in a place of paradise along side of the place of torment.

The sins of the world were not pardoned (paid for) until Jesus shed His blood to pay for them. This is the reason Jesus went to paradise, to set the captives free. Paradise is no longer beside the place of torment.

Today the spirit of those that have faith in what Jesus did on the cross are in heaven with the old testament saints awaiting the resurrection of their bodies during the rapture (caught up). Their spirits are in heaven because Jesus has already paid the full price for their sins.

Pardoned (forgiven) is not the same as paid for - indeed they are mutually exclusive.

If I owe you £1,000 and you forgive the debt it is not paid and you do not have £1,000
If I (or someone else) paid you £1,000 then you have £1,000. Forgiveness is irrelevant. The debt is paid.

Mt 18
23"Therefore the kingdom of heaven may be compared to a king who wished to settle accounts with his servants.
24 When he began the reckoning, one was brought to him who owed him ten thousand talents;
25 and as he could not pay, his lord ordered him to be sold, with his wife and children and all that he had, and payment to be made.
26 So the servant fell on his knees, imploring him, 'Lord, have patience with me, and I will pay you everything.'
27 And out of pity for him the lord of that servant released him and forgave him the debt.

Did the king get the 10,000 talents? No he did not. He forgave the debt out of compassion.
It was not paid for.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Did the king get the 10,000 talents? No he did not. He forgave the debt out of compassion.
It was not paid for.

Eph 1:13-14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption (apolutrósis) of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption (apolutrósis).

apolutrósis: a release effected by payment of ransom
Original Word: ἀπολύτρωσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apolutrósis
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol-oo'-tro-sis)
Short Definition: redemption, deliverance
Definition: release effected by payment of ransom; redemption, deliverance.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Rom 8:38-39 For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons,k neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2 Tim 1:12 That is why I am suffering as I am. Yet this is no cause for shame, because I know whom I have believed, and am convinced that he is able to guard what I have entrusted to him until that day.

 

[Mungo]

Eph 1:13-14 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, 14who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption (apolutrósis) of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.

Eph 4:30 And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with whom you were sealed for the day of redemption (apolutrósis).

apolutrósis: a release effected by payment of ransom
Original Word: ἀπολύτρωσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: apolutrósis
Phonetic Spelling: (ap-ol-oo'-tro-sis)
Short Definition: redemption, deliverance
Definition: release effected by payment of ransom; redemption, deliverance.

Paul uses several different metaphors to explain the atonement. In this one he uses the metaphor of buying slaves their freedom.

In Gal 3:13 & 2Cor 5:21he uses the scapegoat metaphor:
"Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us"
"For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God."

In Rom 5:8 Paul writes:
"But God shows his love for us in that while we were yet sinners Christ died for us." But what does that mean?
In his book Problems with Atonement, Stephen Finlan describes five different models that that Paul uses
He died to save us (martyr model)
He died in our place - penal substitution model
He paid the price to buy our freedom - ransoming model
He died as the new place of atonement - sacrificial and typological model
He took on our curse and bore away our sins - scapegoat model and typological model

In Rom 5:9-10 he suggests Paul conflates several models and uses one model to interpret another:
justified [judicial]
by his blood [sacrificial or martyr image, or both].....
saved from the wrath of God. [at Judgment Day]....
were reconciled [social/diplomatic]....
to God though the dearth of his Son [sacrificial and martyrdom]

You can pick different models of atonement out of Paul's imagery.

In another thread I asked H.Richard what he meant by ""paid for" but he wouldn't, or couldn't, answer.

All these models seem to have problems. For example a common protestant model is penal atonement whereby the wrath of God is poured out on Jesus who was punished instead of us. But this introduces discord into the Godhead. Also the punishment due to us is eternal separation from God. Jesus did not suffer that.
A problem with the ransom model is who was this ransom paid to? Who were we bought from?

 

[Mungo]

When Jesus shed His blood on the cross all the iniquities (sins) of the world were cancelled, pardoned, forgiven, atoned for, paid for.

Does that mean that everyone is saved?

 

[H. Richard]

Does that mean that everyone is saved?

***
What do you think about it?

 

[H. Richard]

I disgree.

***
Then how are your sins dealt with?

 

[Mungo]

***
What do you think about it?

You are not into answering questions are you?

Let's try again - Does that mean that everyone is saved?

 

[Mungo]

***
Then how are your sins dealt with?

If you don't answer my questions I won't answer yours.

 

[H. Richard]

Everyone knows that I answered your question. Your not accepting my answer is your problem, not mine. In case you can't read a DICTIONARY I will answer again from the Dictionary.

All sins have been paid for.

Atonement = satisfaction given for wrongdoing, injury; amends; / the effect of Jesus’ sufferings and death in redeeming mankind and bringing about the reconciliation of God to man.

Amends = payment made or satisfaction given for injury, insult, loss, etc.

Paid = given in payment, as money; discharged; settled, as a debt.

Redeem = to buy back; recover, as by paying a fee; to pay off a mortgage or note; to set free; ransom; rescue; to deliver from sin and its penalties; make amends for; atone or compensate for.

All of the above it taken from WEBSTERS NEW WORLD DICTIONARY copyright 1957, 1953, 1952 and 1951 by THE WORLD PUBLISHING COMPANY

Jesus did indeed pay for, atone for, make amends for, redeem those, and only those, that place their faith, belief, trust, and confidence in His work on the cross where He shed His blood to pay for the sins of the whole world.

It is such a pity that people will place their faith and eternal future in what they do in religions to save them. They simply will not believe Jesus’ message He gave to Paul for all of mankind.

 

[H. Richard]

If you don't answer my questions I won't answer yours.

***
How can you be a witness for Jesus if you won't say how your sins have been dealt with?

I have answered that Jesus dealt with my sins on the cross when He shed His blood to pay for my sins. My faith is in what He did. Can you give the same answer?

 

[H. Richard]

You are not into answering questions are you?

Let's try again - Does that mean that everyone is saved?

***
It means that everyone has a pardon, a free gift of salvation. But only those that place their belief, faith, trust and confidence in His work on the cross. To not believe what God has done for you leaves you in company with those that believe Satan instead of God. The condition of unbelief. See Hebrews.

Heb 3:8-19
8 Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, In the day of trial in the wilderness,
9 Where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years.
10 Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, 'They always go astray in their heart, And they have not known My ways.'
11 So I swore in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest.'"
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;
13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called "Today," lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin.
14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end,
15 while it is said: "Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion."
Failure of the Wilderness Wanderers 16 For who, having heard, rebelled? Indeed, was it not all who came out of Egypt, led by Moses?
17 Now with whom was He angry forty years? Was it not with those who sinned, whose corpses fell in the wilderness?
18 And to whom did He swear that they would not enter His rest, but to those who did not obey?
19 So we see that they could not enter in because of unbelief.
NKJV

God told the Jews to go into the promised land and He would drive the people there out. But the Jews did not believe God. Today, if you do not believe that Jesus has paid for your sins on the cross you will not enter God's rest.

 

[Mungo]

Everyone knows that I answered your question. Your not accepting my answer is your problem, not mine. In case you can't read a DICTIONARY I will answer again from the Dictionary.

All sins have been paid for.

Atonement = satisfaction given for wrongdoing, injury; amends; / the effect of Jesus’ sufferings and death in redeeming mankind and bringing about the reconciliation of God to man.

Amends = payment made or satisfaction given for injury, insult, loss, etc.

Paid = given in payment, as money; discharged; settled, as a debt.

Redeem = to buy back; recover, as by paying a fee; to pay off a mortgage or note; to set free; ransom; rescue; to deliver from sin and its penalties; make amends for; atone or compensate for.

All of the above it taken from WEBSTERS NEW WORLD DICTIONARY copyright 1957, 1953, 1952 and 1951 by THE WORLD PUBLISHING COMPANY

Jesus did indeed pay for, atone for, make amends for, redeem those, and only those, that place their faith, belief, trust, and confidence in His work on the cross where He shed His blood to pay for the sins of the whole world.

It is such a pity that people will place their faith and eternal future in what they do in religions to save them. They simply will not believe Jesus’ message He gave to Paul for all of mankind.

No you didn't answer my question. The first post you made addressed to me, and in response to my question, was a question back to me - not an answer..

As to the above, it comes back to the issue in the other thread that you failed to answer - What do you mean by "paid for"?
It can mean different things as I indicated in post #9

 

[Mungo]

***
It means that everyone has a pardon, a free gift of salvation. But only those that place their belief, faith, trust and confidence in His work on the cross.

If the pardon is conditional, then if a person does not meet the condition(s) they are not pardoned.

So not everyone has a pardon.

Therefore your statement in the OP "When Jesus shed His blood on the cross all the iniquities (sins) of the world were cancelled, pardoned, forgiven, atoned for, paid for" is false.

That is one reason why I said I disagreed.

 

[Mungo]

In case you can't read a DICTIONARY I will answer again from the Dictionary.

Descending to abuse does not help your case.