The Show Must Go On

[Looking4Me]

Can you prove anything you personally believe?

If you believed you'd contracted Covid19 because you had flu like symptoms, is that enough evidence to go on? (Wouldn't you need confirmation, or is confirmation bias enough)
If you believed your husband or wife was being unfaithful, would you plan for a divorce (Or do something you'd regret before you actually knew?)

 

[Matthias]

Can you prove anything you personally believe?

Yes. The Bible doesn’t prove that there is a God. The Bible speaks about the one God. I believe in one God, but not just any one God. I believe in the same and only one God whom a Jew living in Galilee in the 1st century believes in, but not just any Jew.

The Jew I’m speaking about is a man named Jesus, called the Nazarene, believed by some of his fellow Jews to be the promised Messiah, the son of the one God.

I have proved to myself and to others from the Bible that the one God is none other than the God and Father of Jesus, the Nazarene. I have it on this man’s word that his Father is my Father, his God is my God.

 

[dev553344]

God can prove he exists to a person. We don't prove he exists. And after we die we all will find out.

 

[Matthias]

I know whom I have believed; the man whose God is our Father and no other.

Others know whom they have believed; but if the man whom they have believed has a God who is not the God of the man whom I have believed, I will not forsake my God by acknowledging the existence of theirs.

There is only one God and there is no God besides the one God of the man from Galilee. Everything else is idols.

 

[marks]

Can you prove anything you personally believe?

To others? It depends on their acceptance of "proofs". You can show someone evidence, but if its not evidentiary to them, what else can you do?

I quite agree with what you are thinking about, that we don't want to commit prematurely to what we don't know for certain.

So to answer your question, I'd have to say it depends, on my ability to communicate, my mastery of the evidence, and so make a compelling, even convincing presentation. It also depends on your ability to understand and receive the evidence, which would include any presuppositions you may hold, that would position you to have cognitive bias, leading to rejecting valid evidence out of preference for an alternative view.

How do you answer? Can you prove what you personally believe?

And, do you have in mind specifically beliefs about God? Or in general?

Much love!

Mark

 

[Matthias]

“1. The one God. (a) theos is the most frequent designation of God in the NT. Belief in the one, only and unique God (Matt. 23:9; Rom. 3:30; 1 Cor. 8:4,6; Gal. 3:20; 1 Tim. 2:5; Jas. 2:19) is an established part of Christian tradition. Jesus himself made the fundamental confession of Jud. his own and and expressly quoted the Shema (Deut. 6:4-5; see Mk. 12:29-30; cf. Matt. 22:37; Lk. 10:27). This guaranteed continuity between the old and the new covenants. The God whom Christians worship is the God of the fathers (Acts 3:13; 5:30; 22:14), the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Acts 3:13; 7:32; cf. Matt. 22:32; Mk. 12:26; Lk. 20:37), the God of Israel (Matt. 15:31; Lk. 1:68; Acts 13:17), and the God of Jesus Christ (2 Cor. 1:3; Eph. 1:3; 1 Pet. 1:3).”

(New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology, Abridged Edition, p. 244)

The one God of the man from Galilee.

There are many gods, so-called, in the world and man may choose to follow some or all of them. I once did. The man from Galilee never did. I never will again.

 

[Pearl]

Well if hearing God speak to you is proof . . . Or prayer being answered . . . Or the change Jesus has made to my life . . . . That's all the proof I need.

It's like asking if you have proof that you are married, you just know.

 

[marks]

Well if hearing God speak to you is proof . . . Or prayer being answered . . . Or the change Jesus has made to my life . . . . That's all the proof I need.

It's like asking if you have proof that you are married, you just know.

That's how it is for me with God. I've become convinced over time that I am in fact in communication with a Spirit, Who loves me, has the power to change me, my life, the world, has power over everything, and in fact lines up exactly with Who the Bible tells me is there, our God.

And I could tell all the times these proofs have shown themselves to me in my life, but what meaning does that have to someone else? It's just some guy telling stories. But I am one more guy with those stories to tell! Amazing things God has done for me! I'm convinced. But how to convince another?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I just got it. First I realized this was a thread from a couple of years ago. Then I realized why it was resurrected.

Then the show MUST go on!

 

[Matthias]

“Jesus is the only person who has ever lived who has perfectly kept God’s law.” - Don Stewart

Jesus answered, “The greatest is, ‘Hear, Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one: you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.’ Deuteronomy 6:4-5. This is the first commandment.”

(Mark 12:29-30, WEB)

Jesus loves his God, the one God, perfectly. There is no other God for him, nor for his disciples, to love.

 

[Pearl]

I just got it. First I realized this was a thread from a couple of years ago. Then I realized why it was resurrected.

Then the show MUST go on!

it is good for people to testify about God's love and grace and how he changed their life and give Glory to the Father the Creator.

 

[Matthias]

it is good for people to testify about God's love and grace and how he changed their life and give Glory to the Father the Creator.

Thanks for your support. I’m greatly encouraged by it.

 

[Mr E]

To others? It depends on their acceptance of "proofs". You can show someone evidence, but if its not evidentiary to them, what else can you do?

I quite agree with what you are thinking about, that we don't want to commit prematurely to what we don't know for certain.

So to answer your question, I'd have to say it depends, on my ability to communicate, my mastery of the evidence, and so make a compelling, even convincing presentation. It also depends on your ability to understand and receive the evidence, which would include any presuppositions you may hold, that would position you to have cognitive bias, leading to rejecting valid evidence out of preference for an alternative view.

How do you answer? Can you prove what you personally believe?

And, do you have in mind specifically beliefs about God? Or in general?

Great questions. The standard is 'beyond a reasonable doubt' in a court of law. "By the preponderance of evidence" which means the weight, or volume of evidence. Many people think their "beliefs" are proven simply by their feelings about their beliefs. No mountain of evidence required for them, -their standard becomes the least amount.... a mustard seed of faith about their beliefs.

And the pertinent question is about beliefs. We believe in things we don't yet know. When the threshold is crossed and when something becomes proven it is no longer a belief, it becomes knowledge instead of belief. Things that are known and not simply believed are provable to others. So then knowledge is more than belief in that it is demonstrable. You don't have to convince anyone by the power of a compelling argument. You can show them. That's the difference.

It doesn't matter how you feel about the subject. It's provable, or it's a belief.

I just got it. First I realized this was a thread from a couple of years ago. Then I realized why it was resurrected.

Then the show MUST go on!

It's called necroposting. Rather distasteful.

 

[marks]

It's called necroposting. Rather distasteful.

Springboarding. Someone's not done with their other topic.

Things that are known and not simply believed are provable to others. So then knowledge is more than belief in that it is demonstrable.

Except, I know that I'm speaking with God, and that God is active in my life. I have a boatload of proofs but they are only proofs to me. Those private moments when He's revealed Himself to me, but all I can do for you is tell my story. I don't have anything to point to, to show, except, I was there, and I know.

Much love!

 

[Pearl]

Things that are known and not simply believed are provable to others. So then knowledge is more than belief in that it is demonstrable. You don't have to convince anyone by the power of a compelling argument. You can show them. That's the difference.

But surely you know that the things of God do not always have a substance that can be seen by others. They are things that are known only to the one they happen to. Logic can not explain the mysteries of God, intellect cannot fathom how God works.

 

[Matthias]

It's called necroposting. Rather distasteful.

Welcome to the catacombs.

***

“Improvise, adapt and overcome” - one of my no nonsense civil engineering professors, who learned it from an elite, mean, government killing machine (“From the halls of Montezuma …”) and transferred to his students

For the time being, I can discuss the Messiah’s one God in this forum.

 

[Matthias]

it is good for people to testify about God's love and grace and how he changed their life and give Glory to the Father the Creator.

“Now, if the invitation was not a sudden one, it must have been given by the Creator - even by Him of old time, whose call they had at last refused. They first refused it when they said to Aaron, ‘Make us gods, which shall go before us;’ and again, afterwards, when ‘they heard indeed with the ear, but did not understand’ their calling of God. In a manner most germane to this parable, He said of Jeremiah: ‘Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people; and ye shall walk in all my ways, which I have commanded you.’ This is the invitation of God. ‘But,‘ says He, ‘they harkened not, nor inclined their ear.‘ This is the refusal of the people. ’They departed, and walked every one in the imagination of their evil heart.’”

(Tertullian, Against Marcion, Book 4, Chapter 31)

 

[Matthias]

it is good for people to testify about God's love and grace and how he changed their life and give Glory to the Father the Creator.

Who does this better than Jesus of Nazareth, our teacher?

“For the prayer which [Jesus] has taught us suits, as we have proved, none but the Creator. … [the Creator] is the supremely and spontaneously good God! There is, [Jesus] says, ‘none but one.’ … [Jesus] expressly asserts that there is one only good God, who is the only good, because [the Creator] is the only God.”

(Tertullian, Against Marcion, Book 4, Chapter 36)

It is the Messiah himself who testifies about God’s love and grace, who gives glory to the Father the Creator. It is his example that I, a disciple of the Messiah, follow by doing the same.

 

[ScottA]

Can you prove anything you personally believe?

If you believed you'd contracted Covid19 because you had flu like symptoms, is that enough evidence to go on? (Wouldn't you need confirmation, or is confirmation bias enough)
If you believed your husband or wife was being unfaithful, would you plan for a divorce (Or do something you'd regret before you actually knew?)

You're missing the point.

The point is not that we are here to prove what is true and then believe it. To the contrary, we all already know that we are destine to die. The point then is not to prove anything--it's to try to survive against all odds, to find the exception if there is one--that is the quest. The quest--literally the meaning of life, is not to live it and die--but rather, if it is at all possible--to live it and live. In which case, standing on a cliff with a fire at your back, the quest is to leap to safety--not to "prove" if safety exists or not.

So--do whatever you want with your time on the cliff...but wasting it on expecting or demanding "proof" is just foolishness.

 

[Pearl]

Can you prove anything you personally believe?

Why do we need to? If we are true Christians we all have a common bond and understand each others beliefs. We share a familial bond because each of us has the same Spirit within. We do not need to prove anything to each other.

For unbelievers to want proof is pretty par for the course, but whatever we tell them makes not difference they will still be unbelievers so why waste time.

If you want proof then ask God directly.