The sin that dwells in us....

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Not me

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Romans 7:20 (NKJV)
Now if I do what I will not [to do,] it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

Getting rid of the sin that dwells in us is the purpose of our salvation, that we might walk worthy onto God. This is the newness of life that is for all Christians to walk in in this life. No amount of self will or strength of will will be able to overcome that sin that dwells in us. But thanks be to God He has made another way, righteousness apart from the law has been brought in. Where the works of the law will be fulfilled in us, but not by us. Faith in God, and a ever present desire to overcome this sin is now what is required. A ever present desire towards being made free from sin. This desire added with faith is now what is required to overcome the sin that dwells in us. For the just shall live by faith is now the directive we as Christians are to live by. This faith in the operation of God in us, a moment by moment causing us to walk in His statutes. A moment by moment walking in newness of life. It is recognizing and realizing what our salvation in Christ consists of that is that that will free one from the sin that dwells in them.

Which is the answer to this question;

How could one be guaranteed to never ever sin again, from now to all eternity?

There is but one way and that is, if right now you were to die. Death is that that frees one from the sin that dwells in them.....Christ tasted death for every man. This is how He fulfilled the law, by taking us to death with Him thereby freeing us from the law and the requirements of the law. Henceforth scripture says;

Romans 6:1-2(NKJV)
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

“we who have died to sin”

This is the reckoning that the scripture speaks of, that is the one thing that is necessary to be made free from sin. To reckon this truth to be true in our lives moment by moment as we go through the day. This is the way of righteousness by faith apart from the law that Christ’s death and resurrection has opened up to man. The heart that desires to be freed from the sin that dwells in them, can be freed from that sin by the faith of the heart reckoning themselves dead to sin and alive unto God by a moment by moment reckoning of this truth to be true. The truth of truths, “that when Christ died we died”, the strength of that death frees us from the sin that dwells in us. Faith in one being joined with Him in His death opens up that walking in newness of life that is the desire of the new creation in us. To walk pleasing to God in all things.

May God continue to open up and work these truths in us, so we might walk in newness of life and be pleasing to God in all things, as we live the rest of our time in the body.

A fellow servant of His, Not me
 
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DoveSpirit05

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I agree with some of wat ur saying although I'd change the "sin in us" 2 "carnal nature" that we got from adam & eve dan 9:11 which causes us 2 sin aswell as free will, rom 7:15 but I also agree that in the flesh dwells no good thing!! rom 7:18, but yes we should be perfect as our father is perfect matt 5:48 and 1 peter 1:16
 

Not me

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I agree with some of wat ur saying although I'd change the "sin in us" 2 "carnal nature" that we got from adam & eve dan 9:11 which causes us 2 sin aswell as free will, rom 7:15 but I also agree that in the flesh dwells no good thing!! rom 7:18, but yes we should be perfect as our father is perfect matt 5:48 and 1 peter 1:16

Thanks for your thoughts, (I was just quoting the scripture). But to Him that does all things well. As He perfects that which concerns us, so we might walk worthy of Him and pleasing to Him in all things.

Be blessed as we seek Him, Not me
 
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DoveSpirit05

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Thanks for your thoughts, (I was just quoting the scripture). But to Him that does all things well. As He perfects that which concerns us, so we might walk worthy of Him and pleasing to Him in all things.

Be blessed as we seek Him, Not me

so are you filled with the holy spirit?
 

Not me

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so are you filled with the holy spirit?

Scripture teaches;

2 Corinthians 12:6b (NASB)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ so that no one will credit me with more than he sees in me or hears from me.

Scripture teaches that one Christian should be able to see and hear Christ in another believer.

If your heart doesn’t bare witness, than judge accordingly.

Be blessed as we draw closer to Him, so we can taste Christ, as He forms Himself in us.

In the Beloved, Not me
 
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DoveSpirit05

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Scripture teaches;

2 Corinthians 12:6b (NASB)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ so that no one will credit me with more than he sees in me or hears from me.

Scripture teaches that one Christian should be able to see and hear Christ in another believer.

If your heart doesn’t bare witness, than judge accordingly.

Be blessed as we draw closer to Him, so we can taste Christ, as He forms Himself in us.

In the Beloved, Not me

scripture does talk about having the spirit mark 16:17 and these signs shall follow, many will cast out demons and speak in new tongues and so on!! john 16:8 the spirit will testify of himself in a person!!

romans 8:9-10 those who have not the spirit are not of mine!! john 4:24 you must worship in spirit and truth!! acts 2:17 God will pour out his spirit upon flesh and they shall prophesy, are you showing any of theses things? it is a valid question!!
 

Not me

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scripture does talk about having the spirit mark 16:17 and these signs shall follow, many will cast out demons and speak in new tongues and so on!! john 16:8 the spirit will testify of himself in a person!!

romans 8:9-10 those who have not the spirit are not of mine!! john 4:24 you must worship in spirit and truth!! acts 2:17 God will pour out his spirit upon flesh and they shall prophesy, are you showing any of theses things? it is a valid question!!

As I judge myself, more Lord willing than yesterday, but Lord willing, not as much as tomorrow.

Be blessed as we grow in Him, Not me
 
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CharismaticLady

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Romans 7:20 (NKJV)
Now if I do what I will not [to do,] it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.

Getting rid of the sin that dwells in us is the purpose of our salvation, that we might walk worthy onto God. This is the newness of life that is for all Christians to walk in in this life. No amount of self will or strength of will will be able to overcome that sin that dwells in us. But thanks be to God He has made another way, righteousness apart from the law has been brought in. Where the works of the law will be fulfilled in us, but not by us. Faith in God, and a ever present desire to overcome this sin is now what is required. A ever present desire towards being made free from sin. This desire added with faith is now what is required to overcome the sin that dwells in us. For the just shall live by faith is now the directive we as Christians are to live by. This faith in the operation of God in us, a moment by moment causing us to walk in His statutes. A moment by moment walking in newness of life. It is recognizing and realizing what our salvation in Christ consists of that is that that will free one from the sin that dwells in them.

Which is the answer to this question;

How could one be guaranteed to never ever sin again, from now to all eternity?

There is but one way and that is, if right now you were to die. Death is that that frees one from the sin that dwells in them.....Christ tasted death for every man. This is how He fulfilled the law, by taking us to death with Him thereby freeing us from the law and the requirements of the law. Henceforth scripture says;

Romans 6:1-2(NKJV)
What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound?Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it?

“we who have died to sin”

This is the reckoning that the scripture speaks of, that is the one thing that is necessary to be made free from sin. To reckon this truth to be true in our lives moment by moment as we go through the day. This is the way of righteousness by faith apart from the law that Christ’s death and resurrection has opened up to man. The heart that desires to be freed from the sin that dwells in them, can be freed from that sin by the faith of the heart reckoning themselves dead to sin and alive unto God by a moment by moment reckoning of this truth to be true. The truth of truths, “that when Christ died we died”, the strength of that death frees us from the sin that dwells in us. Faith in one being joined with Him in His death opens up that walking in newness of life that is the desire of the new creation in us. To walk pleasing to God in all things.

May God continue to open up and work these truths in us, so we might walk in newness of life and be pleasing to God in all things, as we live the rest of our time in the body.

A fellow servant of His, Not me

You have to connect Roman 7 and 8, because chapter 8 immediately gives the answer to the struggle obeying the law of chapter 7 - the Holy Spirit. Romans 7:20 is a person under the law, but does not have Jesus yet, nor His Spirit. Romans 7:13 shows the cause of the struggle - sin. Who takes away our sin? Jesus. The law was called the law of sin and death. Romans 8:2 says the law of the Spirit of life in Christ has SET ME FREE of the law of sin and death. And Romans 8:9 says we are not in the (carnal) flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God indeed dwells in us. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ they do not belong to Christ.

That is the problem in the Church. Many in the Church know a lot about Jesus just as a demon knows, and want Jesus to save them from hell, but they don't have the Holy Spirit to stop them from sinning. John 8:34-36 tells us that anyone who sins is a slave to sin. You can't be a slave to sin and a slave to righteousness. Anyone who struggles with sin, does not have the Holy Spirit and needs to truly repent and really want to serve God, and not treat Jesus as a ticket out of jail.
 

marks

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You have to connect Roman 7 and 8, because chapter 8 immediately gives the answer to the struggle obeying the law of chapter 7 - the Holy Spirit. Romans 7:20 is a person under the law, but does not have Jesus yet, nor His Spirit. Romans 7:13 shows the cause of the struggle - sin. Who takes away our sin? Jesus. The law was called the law of sin and death. Romans 8:2 says the law of the Spirit of life in Christ has SET ME FREE of the law of sin and death.
Let me ask a question . . .

In this part:

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

When he says, "with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin", what does that mean to you?

I'm particularly interested in "with the mind I myself serve the law of God."

Much love!
 

CharismaticLady

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Let me ask a question . . .

In this part:

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

When he says, "with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin", what does that mean to you?

I'm particularly interested in "with the mind I myself serve the law of God."

Much love!

Chapters one through 8 is Paul's whole teaching about the transition from being under the law, to being under grace. And in this instance grace is the power of God indwelling us. The Jews had the law drilled into their mind (just as I memorized the whole Ten Commandments as a child and can still recite them word for word.) Now try fulfilling the law with a unregenerated carnal nature. That is what that verse means. It is BEFORE Christ. Next chapter immediately shows that Jesus condemned sin in the flesh. IOW Jesus took sin out of flesh by renewing our flesh making us born again. We are no longer in our carnal flesh but in the Spirit, if we have the Spirit to begin with.

Romans 8:2 says the law of the Spirit of life in Christ has SET ME FREE of the law of sin and death. And Romans 8:9 says we are not in the (carnal) flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God indeed dwells in us. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ they do not belong to Christ.

That is the problem in the Church. Many in the Church know a lot about Jesus just as a demon knows, and want Jesus to save them from hell, but they don't have the Holy Spirit to stop them from sinning. John 8:34-36 tells us that anyone who sins is a slave to sin. You can't be a slave to sin and a slave to righteousness. Anyone who struggles with sin, does not have the Holy Spirit and needs to truly repent and really want to serve God, and not treat Jesus as a ticket out of jail.
 

marks

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Chapters one through 8 is Paul's whole teaching about the transition from being under the law, to being under grace. And in this instance grace is the power of God indwelling us. The Jews had the law drilled into their mind (just as I memorized the whole Ten Commandments as a child and can still recite them word for word.) Now try fulfilling the law with a unregenerated carnal nature. That is what that verse means. It is BEFORE Christ. Next chapter immediately shows that Jesus condemned sin in the flesh. IOW Jesus took sin out of flesh by renewing our flesh making us born again. We are no longer in our carnal flesh but in the Spirit, if we have the Spirit to begin with.

Romans 8:2 says the law of the Spirit of life in Christ has SET ME FREE of the law of sin and death. And Romans 8:9 says we are not in the (carnal) flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God indeed dwells in us. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ they do not belong to Christ.

That is the problem in the Church. Many in the Church know a lot about Jesus just as a demon knows, and want Jesus to save them from hell, but they don't have the Holy Spirit to stop them from sinning. John 8:34-36 tells us that anyone who sins is a slave to sin. You can't be a slave to sin and a slave to righteousness. Anyone who struggles with sin, does not have the Holy Spirit and needs to truly repent and really want to serve God, and not treat Jesus as a ticket out of jail.
But what is Paul talking about when he says, as a carnal and unregenerate man, "with the mind I myself serve the Law of God"?

Much love!
 
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CharismaticLady

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But what is Paul talking about when he says, as a carnal and unregenerate man, "with the mind I myself serve the Law of God"?

Much love!

Our mind knows what the law of God is as it was written in stone. But, again, chapter 8 tells us the law was weak through the flesh, same as Romans 7:13. The carnal flesh hindered the law from making us righteous. Chapter 8 shows who solved the problem - Jesus. He took away our sin, the culprit that caused the struggle. Jesus gave all who truly repent and recognize their carnal flesh makes them weak and cries out to Jesus for the help they need to go from just knowing the law, to being energized to living the law. Chapter 8 says the Spirit not only freed us from the law, but from SIN. How? By the Spirit. We are no longer condemned IF we walk in the Spirit and not in the carnal flesh.

The Spirit super-sensitizes our conscience, and works through our conscience to help us resist temptation. The carnal flesh would have jumped right in temptation to our eye-balls, but the super-conscience, walks away. Not from our power, but the Spirit's.
 

marks

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Our mind knows what the law of God is as it was written in stone. But, again, chapter 8 tells us the law was weak through the flesh, same as Romans 7:13. The carnal flesh hindered the law from making us righteous. Chapter 8 shows who solved the problem - Jesus. He took away our sin, the culprit that caused the struggle. Jesus gave all who truly repent and recognize their carnal flesh makes them weak and cries out to Jesus for the help they need to go from just knowing the law, to being energized to living the law. Chapter 8 says the Spirit not only freed us from the law, but from SIN. How? By the Spirit. We are no longer condemned IF we walk in the Spirit and not in the carnal flesh.

The Spirit super-sensitizes our conscience, and works through our conscience to help us resist temptation. The carnal flesh would have jumped right in temptation to our eye-balls, but the super-conscience, walks away. Not from our power, but the Spirit's.
I'm sorry! But I'm still not understanding from your replies how you understand this part, where Paul, as a carnal and unregenerate man, with the mind he himself serves the law of God. It's not just that he says he knows it, he even said that earlier, that when he knew the law it killed him.

He serves the law of God with the mind, as a carnal an unregenerate man.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

To me the only way this makes sense is that he is referring to the new man, the mind of Christ, which is a slave to righteousness, and the old man, the flesh, which is hopelessly corrupted by sin.

Much love!
 

CharismaticLady

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I'm sorry! But I'm still not understanding from your replies how you understand this part, where Paul, as a carnal and unregenerate man, with the mind he himself serves the law of God. It's not just that he says he knows it, he even said that earlier, that when he knew the law it killed him.

He serves the law of God with the mind, as a carnal an unregenerate man.

24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?
25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

To me the only way this makes sense is that he is referring to the new man, the mind of Christ, which is a slave to righteousness, and the old man, the flesh, which is hopelessly corrupted by sin.

Much love!

No, with the carnal mind, he served the law as a Pharisee. We don't get a new mind until we have the Spirit which Romans 7 person does not have, thus they still were controlled by sin. The Christian isn't.
 

marks

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No, with the carnal mind, he served the law as a Pharisee. We don't get a new mind until we have the Spirit which Romans 7 person does not have, thus they still were controlled by sin. The Christian isn't.

Would that be more like, he thought he served the law with his mind?

Ephesians 2
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Here, the mind and the flesh are lumped together in the unregenerate.

Much love!
 
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marks

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Scripture teaches;

2 Corinthians 12:6b (NASB)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ so that no one will credit me with more than he sees in me or hears from me.

Scripture teaches that one Christian should be able to see and hear Christ in another believer.

If your heart doesn’t bare witness, than judge accordingly.

Be blessed as we draw closer to Him, so we can taste Christ, as He forms Himself in us.

In the Beloved, Not me
That's good, that's like a parallel to James . . .

3:13 "Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom."

Let us not announce ourselves to others, rather, show them with a good life. And don't go listen to the hype, go with what you see in others.

Tempered by . . . Love hopes all things, believes all things.

Much love!
 

CharismaticLady

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Would that be more like, he thought he served the law with his mind?

Ephesians 2
1 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins;
2 Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:
3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

Here, the mind and the flesh are lumped together in the unregenerate.

Much love!

It is like a Pharisee. They served the letter of the law. So, of course, they thought they served the law. They served with a carnal mind and carnal nature.

Christians serve God with the mind of Christ, and in the Spirit.
 

marks

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It is like a Pharisee. They served the letter of the law. So, of course, they thought they served the law. They served with a carnal mind and carnal nature.

Christians serve God with the mind of Christ, and in the Spirit.

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What I see here is where Paul wrote, "I serve", this is present active, as he writes, he is at that time serving the Law of God. So I have an issue with that being past tense.

Earlier in the chapter, vs 11, for instance, Paul says that sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and slew me, these in the past tense. Why would he not write in the past tense here, if that's what he meant?

My other difficulty with this interpretation is where he says he serves the law of God, you are saying that he didn't really, only in his own mind. But he wrote that with the mind he indeed serves the law of God.

If I take that in the simplicity in which it's written, then I'd have to conclude that at the present time that he was writing, that with the mind he was in fact serving the Law of God, with that being the ruling principle of his mind, the ruling principle of his flesh being the corruption of sin.

Much love!
 
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Not me

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You have to connect Roman 7 and 8, because chapter 8 immediately gives the answer to the struggle obeying the law of chapter 7 - the Holy Spirit. Romans 7:20 is a person under the law, but does not have Jesus yet, nor His Spirit. Romans 7:13 shows the cause of the struggle - sin. Who takes away our sin? Jesus. The law was called the law of sin and death. Romans 8:2 says the law of the Spirit of life in Christ has SET ME FREE of the law of sin and death. And Romans 8:9 says we are not in the (carnal) flesh, but in the Spirit, if the Spirit of God indeed dwells in us. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ they do not belong to Christ.

That is the problem in the Church. Many in the Church know a lot about Jesus just as a demon knows, and want Jesus to save them from hell, but they don't have the Holy Spirit to stop them from sinning. John 8:34-36 tells us that anyone who sins is a slave to sin. You can't be a slave to sin and a slave to righteousness. Anyone who struggles with sin, does not have the Holy Spirit and needs to truly repent and really want to serve God, and not treat Jesus as a ticket out of jail.

I thank you for your thoughts. I see you are being a do’er of the word, studying and searching out the scriptures, and “working out your own salvation”. May God bless and prosper and bless that “working out” as He continues to form Himself in you.

And may He bless and fill you with all good things.

A fellow servant of His, Not me
 
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CharismaticLady

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What I see here is where Paul wrote, "I serve", this is present active, as he writes, he is at that time serving the Law of God. So I have an issue with that being past tense.

Present tense would have to apply to every verse in chapter 7 then right? What about 7:9. Was Paul over 1300 years old to have been alive before and after the law was given to Moses? Paul's I is mankind. It is a general statement. But still, Romans 8:2 says the law of the Spirit of life in Christ has freed ME from Romans 7 - the law of sin and death.

It is the same as John did in 1 John 1 using "we". That is also mankind. People. If a person before they confess their sins and is CLEANSED FROM ALL UNRIGHTEOUSNESS, believes in their carnal nature that they don't sin or that they have never sinned in their whole life, then they make God a liar, for as Paul said about mankind since Adam "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." That is until we confess our sin and receive the Holy Spirit, the seed of the Father and are born of God.

Earlier in the chapter, vs 11, for instance, Paul says that sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and slew me, these in the past tense. Why would he not write in the past tense here, if that's what he meant?

My other difficulty with this interpretation is where he says he serves the law of God, you are saying that he didn't really, only in his own mind. But he wrote that with the mind he indeed serves the law of God.

All you have to do is read the 8 chapters in context. There are many who believe we are now lawless, just because they read Romans 4:15 "because the law brings about wrath; for where there is no law there is no transgression" and take it out of context of the whole.

I know you like to dissect verses and use the Greek, but that doesn't always work. Like what does the word, "Nicolaitan" mean? Context is better.

If I take that in the simplicity in which it's written, then I'd have to conclude that at the present time that he was writing, that with the mind he was in fact serving the Law of God, with that being the ruling principle of his mind, the ruling principle of his flesh being the corruption of sin.

The context shows this person to be carnal, both mind and nature. The only thing that is holy was the law.