The Soul.

[Anima]

Jesus has shared the following information about the soul:

What distinguishes animal-man from animal-brute?

The soul.

Where do souls come from? The soul of each man?

From God and they belong to Him, but not even He violates the freedom of the soul, which is thus free to give itself or not.

Who is God?

The most intelligent, powerful, perfect Spirit.

Why did God give man a soul?

To give His image and likeness.

When does one receive their soul?

The soul is infused into the embryo when the latter is sufficiently formed to
receive the soul, that lucid and intelligent as it is, has flashes of remembrance
of its origin from God before being infused into a body.

What is a soul?

It is an unquestionable sign of His Most Holy Paternity that shows signs of the qualities characteristic of Him Who creates it. It is therefore intelligent, spiritual, free, immortal, like the Father Who created it.

It is the true nobility of man, because of his soul, there is the blood of God, because a soul is the spiritual blood—as God is a Most Pure Spirit—of the Creator of man: of the eternal, Almighty Holy God. Because of the soul, which is in him, and which is alive as long as it is united to God, man is eternal, powerful, and holy. It is naturally inclined to worship because it remembers the One Who created it: God.

It is perfect when it originates from the divine thought, and in the instant of its creation it is identical, for a thousandth of an instant, with the soul of the first man. A thousandth of an instant. Then, once it is formed, it is stained by original sin. To make it clearer for you I will say that it is as if God were pregnant with the soul which He creates and the creature, in being born, were wounded by an indelible mark." This means while it is thought it is perfect. The creating thought lasts a thousandth of an instant. The thought then becomes actual fact, and the fact is subject to the law brought about by sin. A soul becomes thus incarnate in a human body, bringing with it the memory of the Creator, that is of the Truth, as a secret gem in the mystery of its spiritual being. A baby is born. It may become good, very good, or wicked. It may become anything because it is endowed with free will. The angelical ministry throws light on its "memories" and the tempter darkness. If man craves after light and thus for a greater and greater virtue, making his soul the master of his being, the faculty of remembering increases in the soul, as if virtue made the wall interposed between soul and God thinner and thinner. That is why virtuous people in every country perceive the Truth, not in a perfect way, as they are dulled by contrasting doctrines or by lethal ignorance, but in a sufficient manner to give pages of moral perfection to the peoples to whom they belong. This means the religion of virtue practiced heroically predisposes the soul to the true Religion and to the knowledge of God.

Where is our soul?

It is in the whole of man. It contains you and is contained within you. When it leaves you, you become a corpse. When it is killed by a crime that man commits against himself, you are damned, separated from God forever. Our body was created by God to be the temple of the soul, which is the temple of God. It must, therefore, be kept honest, otherwise the soul will be robbed of God's friendship and of eternal life.

What does a soul in Grace possess?

Love, and by possessing love it possesses God, that is the Father Who preserves it, the Son Who teaches it, the Spirit Who illuminates it. It therefore possesses Knowledge, Science, Wisdom, Light. All knowledge that does not come from a soul in Grace—and is not in grace who is against God's Law, which is very clear in its commandments—such knowledge comes from Satan. It seldom corresponds to the truth when human matters are concerned, it never corresponds to the truth with regard to superhuman matters. The Demon is in fact the father of falsehood, and can but lead on to the path to the path of falsehood. There is no other method of the knowing the truth, except the one that comes from God, Who speaks, and says, or reminds.

What is it that removes Grace?

Original sin and the mortal one.

Baptism annuls the stain [original sin], but not the incitement. Grace infuses strength to conquer the incitement, but does not annul it. It remains like a secret thorn to irritate the indelible scar of the Fault. Not the wound: the scar. But, if we’re not vigilant, the scar, if irritated and not treated with supernatural means, becomes a wound again.

In every man there are then two opposed forces which fight in him from birth til death, and which constitute his test, his victory or his defeat with regard to his supernatural destiny.

You may ask why God leaves this incitement even after the restoration of Grace [in man]? Out of justice. All in God is justice. His every operation is justice and loving justice.

Has not God perhaps left the memory of Himself in the soul created by Him? That memory which is a mysterious source of light which guides to the Light, though sensed in a different way by every living spirit, as is demonstrated by the moral laws of the best [civilizations], and by the more or less vivid gleams of supernatural light in the various revealed religions. Though these latter possess only fragmentary notions, they already teach the existence of a Supreme Being, and the duty to live justly in order to possess Him beyond life.

Thus similarly, besides this Infinite Goodness, God leaves [in us] the other memory represented by the thorn of incitement. This keeps our pride at heel. If we felt like we were pure and perfect men, we would become Lucifers, believing that we are equal to God. It keeps our good will vigilant. It makes our love for God heroic. And, through the Father’s compassion, it renders our faults less grave in His eyes. Because if we do not have in ourselves that incitement which agitates, and bites our senses and reason with the cunning of the ancient serpent, who generates it, we would not be judged “with mercy”. But, much is forgiven us, because much in ourselves is aroused not by our pure will, but by the imponderable forces of that incitement—which we do not always succeed in repressing.

But, you should not afflict yourselves. It, too, serves to give a crown of glory. Because temptation is temptation; it is not sin. Because temptation conquered, is victory. Because enduring that secret thorn, without the will consenting to its seductions, is heroic patience.

— The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. I-V

 

[EloyCraft]

I like this about the soul.

As we go about our lives figuring out how it's supposed be. We may do the things that make you like God intend or things that make decay with worms that never stop.
Life animating the is stamped on the soul. The form of the body imprints the soul.to beauty to deform
The form of the body imprints on the soul. When we shed this mortal coiil the life imprinted on the soul means nothing in your life remains hidden . Like a infant naked we enter eternity . The form of the body imprinted on the soul iis the form of your eternal home.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Jesus has shared the following information about the soul:

What distinguishes animal-man from animal-brute?


Where do souls come from? The soul of each man?


Who is God?


Why did God give man a soul?


When does one receive their soul?


What is a soul?


Where is our soul?


What does a soul in Grace possess?


What is it that removes Grace?


— The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. I-V

I'm sorry, some of this sounds comforting and nice, but I see flaws in these concepts.
First off, we are not animal-man. Animals have souls as we do, but they do not have a spirit. Our spiritual nature is dead when we are born, the spiritual part of us with ability to commune with God. Sin was imputed to mankind through Adam and Eve and so we are born with this defect.
When we are born-again, we become a new creature, alive in Christ, a spiritual person and we become the Temple of the Holy Spirit.
We came from God and are made in His image. The soul is the mind, emotions, will, and whatever special talents and abilities He gives us. God has a soul, but God is spirit.
There is confusion and mystery about the soul/spirit of man and I do not pretend to know all there is, but I think I know more than this Ms. Valtorta who wrote this. She was a creative and imaginative romantic writer and her writings should be viewed as such, NOT EXTENSIONS OF SCRIPTURE!

Ms. Valtorta, the writer of "The Poem of the Man-God", was a Catholic and leaned on her faith, knowledge of Catholism ... and supposed visions, which are somewhat spurios. "Visions of Mary"? Why would God give anyone visions of Mary?
Quote [Valtorta's handwritten episodes (which had no chronological order) were typed into separate pages by her priest and reassembled as a book.[2] The first copy of the book was presented to Pope Pius XII, and the three Servite priests who attended the 1948 papal audience stated that he gave his verbal approval to "publish this work as is; he who reads will understand."[2] However, the Holy Office forbade publication and, when in spite of that prohibition, publication followed, placed the book on the Index of Forbidden Books.[3]
In 1992, at the request of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Cardinal Dionigi Tettamanzi asked the publisher to ensure that "in any future reprint of the volumes, each should, right from its first page, clearly state that the 'visions' and 'dictations' referred to in it cannot be held to be of supernatural origin but must be considered simply as literary forms used by the author to narrate in her own way the life of Jesus".[4] The publisher maintained that this was an implicit declaration that the work was free of doctrinal or moral error.[5]] Wikepedia

 

[Anima]

First off, we are not animal-man

First, what do you think Jesus means by "animal-man" and "animal-brute?"

There is confusion and mystery about the soul/spirit of man and I do not pretend to know all there is, but I think I know more than this Ms. Valtorta who wrote this.

There's no mystery and confusion about the soul, at least not to me and others. Jesus is the one speaking about the soul above, He chose Maria Valtorta to write down His words.

Ms. Valtorta, the writer of "The Poem of the Man-God", was a Catholic and leaned on her faith, knowledge of Catholism ... and supposed visions, which are somewhat spurios. "Visions of Mary"? Why would God give anyone visions of Mary?
Quote [Valtorta's handwritten episodes (which had no chronological order) were typed into separate pages by her priest and reassembled as a book.[2] The first copy of the book was presented to Pope Pius XII, and the three Servite priests who attended the 1948 papal audience stated that he gave his verbal approval to "publish this work as is; he who reads will understand."[2] However, the Holy Office forbade publication and, when in spite of that prohibition, publication followed, placed the book on the Index of Forbidden Books.[3]
In 1992, at the request of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Cardinal Dionigi Tettamanzi asked the publisher to ensure that "in any future reprint of the volumes, each should, right from its first page, clearly state that the 'visions' and 'dictations' referred to in it cannot be held to be of supernatural origin but must be considered simply as literary forms used by the author to narrate in her own way the life of Jesus".[4] The publisher maintained that this was an implicit declaration that the work was free of doctrinal or moral error.[5]] Wikepedia

I'm familiar with and have refuted the inaccuracies in that quote, as well as other arguments against Maria Valtorta, for many years, and quite frankly, I'm exhausted of doing other people's homework for them. You're perfectly capable of researching both sides and verifying what you read, etc.

 

[EloyCraft]

familiar with and have refuted the inaccuracies in that quote, as well as other arguments against Maria Valtorta, for many years, and quite frankly, I'm exhausted of doing other people's homework for them. You're perfectly capable of researching both sides and verifying what you read, etc.

I agree. Flawed. The source of knowledge of the soul presented is behind the curve.

 

[Aunty Jane]

According to my studies, man does not "have" a soul but man IS a "soul".
When God created Adam he said....
"And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." (Genesis 2:7 ASV)

The word "soul" there is "nep̄eš" which Strongs defines as....
"soul, self, life, creature, person....that which breathes....living being."

So man and animals are "souls"....'living, breathing creatures'. The word "soul" never means "a disembodies spirit", so there is no such thing as an 'immortal soul' in the Bible.
All souls , man or animals, are mortal....they die. (Ezekiel 18:4)

Solomon wrote in Ecclesiastes 3:19-20...
"For what happens to the children of man and what happens to the beasts is the same; as one dies, so dies the other. They all have the same breath, and man has no advantage over the beasts, for all is vanity. 20 All go to one place. All are from the dust, and to dust all return."

So, one is not "given" a soul, but rather one "becomes" a soul when the breath of life is added....just like Adam.

At death one loses all consciousness, according to Solomon....
"For the living know that they will die, but the dead know nothing, and they have no more reward, for the memory of them is forgotten. 6 Their love and their hate and their envy have already perished, and forever they have no more share in all that is done under the sun. . . . Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with your might, for there is no work or thought or knowledge or wisdom in Sheol, to which you are going."

"Sheol" is the Hebrew equivalent of the Greek "hades" and rather than meaning a place of fiery torment, it is simply a place to "Rest in Peace".

We die because of Adam's sin, but reading through Genesis we see that the only cause of death in Eden was disobedience. There was no "natural' cause of death ever mentioned.

If Adam and his wife had not sinned....they never would have died.....would that have made them immortal? NO! because immortality means that one cannot die. Being granted everlasting life is a whole other thing.....continuing life was conditional.....it required being obedient to the commands of the Creator. He had provided the means for man to go on living....("the tree of life")....but once sin entered into the world, that means was taken away from them.....(Genesis 3:20-22) and they eventually died as we all must, sooner or later.

So what is the hope for the dead that Jesus' sacrifice accomplishes?....a resurrection, which is a return to life, not a continuation of it.
Jesus demonstrated the resurrection when he raised his friend Lazarus from his tomb. (John 11:11-14) He did not drag Lazarus out of heaven but simple returned him to life. Jesus promises to call all of the dead from their tombs.....(John 5:28-29) This will be with the exception of his elect whom he will resurrect first to life in heaven. (Revelation 20:6) But not all are of the elect.....these "kings and priests" will have earthly subjects. (Revelation 21:2-4)

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

First, what do you think Jesus means by "animal-man" and "animal-brute?"



There's no mystery and confusion about the soul, at least not to me and others. Jesus is the one speaking about the soul above, He chose Maria Valtorta to write down His words.



I'm familiar with and have refuted the inaccuracies in that quote, as well as other arguments against Maria Valtorta, for many years, and quite frankly, I'm exhausted of doing other people's homework for them. You're perfectly capable of researching both sides and verifying what you read, etc.

You spent years refuting and exhausting yourself to defend Maria Valtorta's writings? What a waste of time and energy. I won't add to that.
Have a nice life.

 

[Anima]

You spent years refuting and exhausting yourself to defend Maria Valtorta's writings? What a waste of time and energy.

You don't know anything about her, so you can't say it's a waste of time and energy defending her. I do know about her though, and all the times I have defended her it was never a waste of time and energy. But, after years of people like you who just automatically believe those against her, without being objective, and reading both sides of the argument, I just don't feel like making things easy for you, at least right now.

 

[bbyrd009]

The word "soul" there is "nep̄eš" which Strongs defines as....
"soul, self, life, creature, person....that which breathes....living being."

So man and animals are "souls"....'living, breathing creatures'. The word "soul" never means "a disembodies spirit", so there is no such thing as an 'immortal soul' in the Bible.
All souls , man or animals, are mortal....they die. (Ezekiel 18:4)

ty

 

[ScottA]

"Soul" just means man was made a "being"...like an "animal", but with the unique distinction of being made in God's image.

It is only men who have defined "soul" to mean something more, even a third thing added to the flesh and spirit.

 

[bbyrd009]

"Soul" just means man was made a "being"...like an "animal", but with the unique distinction of being made in God's image.

It is only men who have defined "soul" to mean something more, even a third thing added to the flesh and spirit.

well, you say “unique,” but do you have evidence for that? ty

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

Anima,
Cardinal Dionigi Tettamanzi asked the publisher to ensure that "in any future reprint of the volumes, each should, right from its first page, clearly state that the 'visions' and 'dictations' referred to in it cannot be held to be of supernatural origin but must be considered simply as literary forms used by the author to narrate in her own way the life of Jesus".[4]
But, "The publisher maintained that this was an implicit declaration that the work was free of doctrinal or moral error."

So your Catholic church hierarchy, a Cardinal , who is just under the Pope, declared her writings as NOT FROM A SUPERNATURAL ORIGIN. Therefore, not true, not the word of God, not an extension of scripture..
I side with the Cardinal on this one.

 

[Anima]

Anima,
Cardinal Dionigi Tettamanzi asked the publisher to ensure that "in any future reprint of the volumes, each should, right from its first page, clearly state that the 'visions' and 'dictations' referred to in it cannot be held to be of supernatural origin but must be considered simply as literary forms used by the author to narrate in her own way the life of Jesus".[4]
But, "The publisher maintained that this was an implicit declaration that the work was free of doctrinal or moral error."

So your Catholic church hierarchy, a Cardinal , who is just under the Pope, declared her writings as NOT FROM A SUPERNATURAL ORIGIN. Therefore, not true, not the word of God, not an extension of scripture..
I side with the Cardinal on this one.

I've refuted that before too. And, you're in no position to agree or disagree with anyone because you haven't even read the Work, nor know anything about Maria Valorta. You will robotically agree with anyone who you think is speaking against her, because you want to believe it's false, and have already concluded it is in your mind, again, without knowing anything.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

I've refuted that before too. And, you're in no position to agree or disagree with anyone because you haven't even read the Work, nor know anything about Maria Valorta. You will robotically agree with anyone who you think is speaking against her, because you want to believe it's false, and have already concluded it is in your mind, again, without knowing anything.

I read the OP, what you presented as something you think is inspired scripture. Some of it was nice and I would agree with it but I found flaws in it. Many people write really nice inspirational things that give us warm feelings and comfort but we need to put on the breaks and put up the red flag when someone claims it is from God as in "Thus says the Lord".
The Bible is finished. There are no extentions or additional inspired words from God. We each individually receives direction and guidance for the Holy Spirit, but this is not to be taken as scripture.
Believe what you want.

 

[Anima]

I read the OP, what you presented as something you think is inspired scripture. Some of it was nice and I would agree with it but I found flaws in it.

You didn't find[removed], only misunderstood what you read.

Many people write really nice inspirational things that give us warm feelinga and comfort but we need to put on the breaks and put up the red flag when someone it is from God as in "Thus says the Lord".

[Removed]. However, I also know a living God exists and speaks, as well as that not everything there is to know exists in this one tiny book called the Bible, which means there's true information that exists that isn't included in the Bible. That's why when I hear about someone claiming to have received dictations, visions, etc, from God, I use my discernment when I read what they have to say.

You just assume anyone who claims to have heard from God is lying, and thus don't even bother to really read and discern, because you're so close-minded. How can you believe in a living God, whom you call "Father," "friend," etc, and think He has nothing further to say to His creation? That's so foreign to me.

In the case of Maria Valtorta, I've read the Work, and she is no liar. She received dictations from Jesus, the blessed Mary, etc, as well as visions of Jesus's life on Earth which she described with accuracy and detail. There are professionals in various fields who've studied her work and discovered she knew things she couldn't have known, and even knew certain things that weren't discovered and proven true until after her death, etc.

God could choose you at any moment to write down what He wants you to, and if He were to, would you obey? If so, would you automatically call the work false just because it couldn't be included in the Bible? I doubt it. Don't limit God by thinking He's a living mute. You're missing out on so many gifts.

Believe what you want.

I don't believe, I know I'm right.

 

[Ronald David Bruno]

In the case of Maria Valtorta, I've read the Work, and she is no liar. She received dictations from Jesus, the blessed Mary, etc, as well as visions of Jesus's life on Earth which she described with accuracy and detail.

Sorry, I don't think many Christians (unless they are Catholics) would agree with Maria Valtorta.
The only _torta truly from God is the Mexican Torta with refried beans, creamy avocado, spicy peppers—and piled with meat and cheese!
That I can agree with.

 

[ScottA]

well, you say “unique,” but do you have evidence for that? ty

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

 

[ScottA]

Jesus has shared the following information about the soul:

When does one receive their soul?
The soul is infused into the embryo when the latter is sufficiently formed to
receive the soul, that lucid and intelligent as it is, has flashes of remembrance
of its origin from God before being infused into a body.
What is a soul?
It is an unquestionable sign of His Most Holy Paternity that shows signs of the qualities characteristic of Him Who creates it. It is therefore intelligent, spiritual, free, immortal, like the Father Who created it.

It is the true nobility of man, because of his soul, there is the blood of God, because a soul is the spiritual blood—as God is a Most Pure Spirit—of the Creator of man: of the eternal, Almighty Holy God. Because of the soul, which is in him, and which is alive as long as it is united to God, man is eternal, powerful, and holy. It is naturally inclined to worship because it remembers the One Who created it: God.

It is perfect when it originates from the divine thought, and in the instant of its creation it is identical, for a thousandth of an instant, with the soul of the first man. A thousandth of an instant. Then, once it is formed, it is stained by original sin. To make it clearer for you I will say that it is as if God were pregnant with the soul which He creates and the creature, in being born, were wounded by an indelible mark." This means while it is thought it is perfect. The creating thought lasts a thousandth of an instant. The thought then becomes actual fact, and the fact is subject to the law brought about by sin. A soul becomes thus incarnate in a human body, bringing with it the memory of the Creator, that is of the Truth, as a secret gem in the mystery of its spiritual being. A baby is born. It may become good, very good, or wicked. It may become anything because it is endowed with free will. The angelical ministry throws light on its "memories" and the tempter darkness. If man craves after light and thus for a greater and greater virtue, making his soul the master of his being, the faculty of remembering increases in the soul, as if virtue made the wall interposed between soul and God thinner and thinner. That is why virtuous people in every country perceive the Truth, not in a perfect way, as they are dulled by contrasting doctrines or by lethal ignorance, but in a sufficient manner to give pages of moral perfection to the peoples to whom they belong. This means the religion of virtue practiced heroically predisposes the soul to the true Religion and to the knowledge of God...


— The Poem of the Man-God: Vol. I-V

This is mere philosophy, not an accurate representation of the scriptures.

The word from scripture, is simply defined as a living "being" or "creature", just as with the animals:

Gen 2:7
And the LORD H3068 God H430 formed H3335 man H120 of the dust H6083 of H4480 the ground, H127 and breathed H5301 into his nostrils H639 the breath H5397 of life; H2416 and man H120 became a living H2416 soul. H5315​

Gen 1:24
And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature H5315 after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.​

 

[bbyrd009]

Genesis 1:26
Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness; let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

so then humans might be unique in that sense, ok, but that does not preclude that “soul” and “life” mean the same thing in the Bible imo; same root, used interchangeably

 

[ScottA]

so then humans might be unique in that sense, ok, but that does not preclude that “soul” and “life” mean the same thing in the Bible imo; same root, used interchangeably

Yes, but rather a type of life even given to the animals. That being life in the flesh, temporal, natural, organic even, and ending in death. Such is life in the world.