The Supernatural, paranormal and the artificial

[Josho]

I have decided to make a new thread for this topic.

Please try not to debate here, this thread is hopefully going to help some members understand more about the supernatural and that not every spirit is from God and that also not everything is supernatural. This thread is going to start of at a basic level though, the more obvious things, as some people need to know the basics. And I am just going to try to keep it simple for the first post.

Now being a topic about the supernatural.

There are 2 main categories of the supernatural.

1 - the Godly (From God) - We will talk about God, The Lord Jesus, The Holy Spirit, what is God capable of in today's world, miracles from God, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, supernatural gifts from God, angels that are messengers of God, how God can work through people's lives.

2 - the demonic (From the Devil) - We will talk about Satan, the demonic, how Satan can use people, how he can deceive people, about how the devil can disguise himself as an angel of light, false signs and wonders (yes they do exist), black magic, witchcraft and how it differs to miracles.

We can also add this category. As it can be confused.

3 - Self (Thoughts, imaginations, non-supernatural works in the natural flesh, this may also include some works which aren't led by God)


Now I will just post a quick summary, and I will start of with the first category.

1 - The Godly (From God or of God) - There is obviously God, The Lord Jesus, The Holy Spirit, in the Bible there is the greatest miracle of all. Jesus dying on the cross as an ultimate sacrifice that our sins may be washed away by His blood, that we may be forgiven and have eternal life if we choose to Believe in Him, He then resurrected on the 3rd day, another supernatural miracle from God. We also read about Lazarus being raised from the dead, we remember Jesus said "Lazarus come forth" and Lazarus arose, Eutychus was also raised from the dead in Acts 20:7-12, he was the man that fell out of the window, God worked a miracle through Paul Paul went down, threw himself on the young man and put his arms around him. “Don’t be alarmed,” he said. “He’s alive!” there are also a few other examples of the raising of the dead in the Bible, when Jesus died on the cross, there was a great earthquake and people rose up from their graves. All of us also recall the splitting of the Red Sea, that was a miracle from God, striking the rock and water coming out, that was a miracle from God, manna from Heaven that was a miracle from God, feeding of the 5000 another miracle from God.

The Gifts of the Holy Spirit are also from God.

1 Corinthians 12:4-11

4 There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. 5 There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord. 6 And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all. 7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all: 8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit, 10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues. 11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

There are also angels from God, these angels are sent to bring messages from God, some are sent to protect us and watch over our lives, some people see them, some don't, but there angels watching over many of our lives, an example we know angel Gabriel was sent to Mary by God. We also know that God sends angels to protect us.

Psalm 91:11-12 NLT

11 For he will order his angels
to protect you wherever you go.
12 They will hold you up with their hands
so you won’t even hurt your foot on a stone.

And some dreams and visions also come from God, God still talks to His sheep, His sheep still here His voice, the Holy Spirit can still lead us and direct us which way to go, what to do.

And all these supernatural miracles, signs and wonders, prophecies, words of knowledge, speaking in tongues, interpretations from God can still happen today, as you may have seen, read, heard some testimonies of God's great power and may have even experienced it for yourself.

 

[Pearl]

Hi Josho, This is good I hope this thread keeps on track. I have had a couple of miraculous healings and lots of God dreams which I may share once it gets going and I see which direction it takes.

 

[Josho]

2 - the demonic/witchcraft (From the devil) - Not everyone is aware of this stuff, and some people of the world may have good intentions, but they also may be operating under witchcraft/the demonic.

Those that operate under witchcraft include - Black magicians, Sorcerers, Witches, Wizards, Warlocks, Witchdoctors, Tarot card readers, psychics, mediums, new age healers, basically anyone that operates under an alternative spirituality that is not from God, is operating under the demonic, signs and wonders that come from them is from the devil, there have even been successful healings from these people too, but DO NOT GO TO THEM, as it does more harm than good, and while you may have a successful healing, at the same time you could be inviting evil demonic spirits into your life, the devil does this stuff through those kind of people to deceive. There have even been false signs and wonders from pagan religions, for example a Buddhist monk was cremated and his ashes turned into gemstones, this is a deceptive sign meant to deceive people, this is why discernment of the spirits is so important!

We also remember reading about the 10 plagues, Pharoah's magicians able to recreate 3 by using witchcraft, they weren't able to recreate the rest though, for example Moses turning the staff into a snake was a miracle of God, but Pharoah's magicians also were able to turn their staffs into snakes using witchcraft, but because God is greater, Moses snake swallowed all of Pharoah's snakes up, and we recall Pharoah's magicians eventually had to give up.

Also there are these people that do graveyard tours and haunted house tours, they claim to see ghosts, now these ghosts are most likely demonic spirits!

When the Bible says the devil can dress up as an angel of light it means it. 2 Corinthians 11:14 and it's also another reason why discernment of the spirits is important. The devil steal, kill, destroys and deceives, the devil is a lier. The devil and his demons don't always dress up as angels of light either, they can be pretty obvious, oh I have seen demons in the form of dark shadows, darker than night, making evil sounds. If you ever see one call on the Lord Jesus!

So that's the message of point number 2, do not get involved in any spiritual activity that is not from God, do not go to witchdoctors or new age healers for healings, do not go to psychics or mediums, do not go to an Imams, Gurus or Buddhist monks for spiritual advice, and do not get into tribal spirituality that's not from God, test the spirits, learn to discern them. - This is the basic level of discernment.

At the top level of being able to discern the spirits, which is a gift from the Holy Spirit, so don't get mad if you are not able to do it, as not every Christian can do it, not every Christian has this gift, but with the gift of discernment, you should be able tell what is from God and what is not from God, without asking any questions, now that is a gift from God to be able to discern the spirits, the Holy Spirit will show/tell you what is from God and what is not from God, those with that gift will not need to ask any questions, the Holy Spirit will let them know, but first learn the basic stuff.

 

[Giuliano]

Please try not to debate here, this thread is hopefully going to help some members understand more about the supernatural and that not every spirit is from God and that also not everything is supernatural.

I hope I won't spark a controversy by saying all power comes from God. There are not two Creators, not two Gods, not two Sources of what is.

Romans 13:1 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

There may be cases when it's for the best for some people to be under the power of Satan. I haven't delivered anyone here to Satan (not yet anyway), but I have successfully done that to a few people.

1 Corinthians 5:5 To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

1 Timothy 1:20
Of whom is Hymenaeus and Alexander; whom I have delivered unto Satan, that they may learn not to blaspheme.

At the top level of being able to discern the spirits, which is a gift from the Holy Spirit, so don't get mad if you are not able to do it, as not every Christian can do it, not every Christian has this gift, but with the gift of discernment, you should be able tell what is from God and what is not from God, without asking any questions, now that is a gift from God to be able to discern the spirits, the Holy Spirit will show/tell you what is from God and what is not from God, those with that gift will not need to ask any questions, the Holy Spirit will let them know, but first learn the basic stuff.

So what do people without this gift do? Trust someone else who claims to have it? How can they tell if that person has it? How can they know if that person is godly or demonic?

The word "discerning" could also mean "judging" rather than what many suppose. I ead it that way myself. Thus it could mean to judge angels as Paul talked about, or to send fallen spirits into the pit (something Jesus declined to do in one case -- it would have been wrong for him to), or to bind them in certain ways.

Acts 19:13 Then certain of the vagabond Jews, exorcists, took upon them to call over them which had evil spirits the name of the Lord Jesus, saying, We adjure you by Jesus whom Paul preacheth.
14 And there were seven sons of one Sceva, a Jew, and chief of the priests, which did so.
15 And the evil spirit answered and said, Jesus I know, and Paul I know; but who are ye?
16 And the man in whom the evil spirit was leaped on them, and overcame them, and prevailed against them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded.

Sceva was right in "perceiving" an evil spirit was there -- I would say they lacked the spiritual gift which would have been needed to "judge" that spirit. I have seen people trying to use this gift when they didn't have it. Such people would be lucky to suffer only physical harm as Sceva and his crowd. Some can suffer spiritual harm.

Two questions: First, why did the evil spirits accuse Jesus of tormenting them? Secondly, why did Jesus grant their wish to enter the swine instead of sending them to the pit?

 

[Josho]

@Giuliano

There is only one true God. God is the greatest.

But you very well know that witchcraft exists too.

There are some members that need to learn the difference of what is from God and what is not from God, that's why this thread was made.

 

[Pearl]

@Giuliano

There is only one true God. God is the greatest.

But you very well know that witchcraft exists too.

There are some members that need to learn the difference of what is from God and what is not from God, that's why this thread was made.

Even playing with a Ouija board can be very harmful and if you've ever done it you need to repent of it. Also consulting mediums or horoscopes etc which are supposed to predict your future is a dangerous practice although on the surface they seem innocuous.

 

[Giuliano]

@Giuliano

There is only one true God. God is the greatest.

But you very well know that witchcraft exists too.

Of course, I know witchcraft exists. I've been attacked spiritually by Wiccans more than once. I've also been attacked by demonic forces, sometimes even seeing them with my spiritual eyes. Sometimes they were invisible. In one case, my cat also saw the demon -- I'll tell that story. I know he did because as the demon crossed the room, my cat turned his head to follow it. The demon did attack me later -- did me no harm -- I laughed at it and told it to get out. Then it went up into the attic -- to annoy the squirrels. Yes, I had squirrels in my attic. I could hear them scurrying around. This was in the winter in the middle of the night. They were carrying acorns out of the house, going out into the night. That demon didn't harm or frighten me or my cat, but it frightened the squirrels. At that point, I got angry and bound it for what it had done to the squirrels.

There are some members that need to learn the difference of what is from God and what is not from God, that's why this thread was made.

How could they know when you say not everyone has the gift of discernment? I've been in churches that had demons. If someone can't tell the difference, how can he determine if his pastor is godly or demonic? How does he pick his teachers?

Once I saw a demon in the air in a church. No one else saw it. They thought everything was just fine. I prayed for it to go away. It did. Then it came back. I prayed for it to go away again. It did and then it came back again. At that point, I figured out what was going on. I had every right to tell that demon not to be in my space; but I did not have the right to tell it to go away when the people in the congregation wanted it there and were inviting it back. I did not have the right to judge that demon, not when humans wanted it there.

There is more than one way to translate the word usually translated as "discerning." It can also mean "judging." Not everyone has the authority to "judge" angels at the present time; but I think anyone with the Holy Spirit should be able to tell the difference between the angelic and the demonic. If someone can't tell the difference for himself between the angelic and the demonic, how could he know if his minister had the Holy Spirit or the spirit of antichrist?

Absolutely, Satan can transform himself so he appears as an angel of light. Absolutely, the Dark Side can perform miracles. Should anyone be amazed then that some churches have ministers who are not what they appear to be?

2 Corinthians 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

If most Christians lack the "gift of discernment" and are unable to tell the difference between the angelic and the demonic, they would have to take somebody else's word for it. How would they know whom to trust? This doctrine reminds me of the Catholic position and how they invest their priests with special powers and expect everyone else to "trust" them.

If someone can fool me into thinking he's a godly person and I find out later he's not, I search my own conscience. I must have been shutting off my conscience somehow. What about my makeup that blinded my eyes? I tell you from experience that I have wished to overlook weaknesses in other people because I secretly felt I'm the same way. I should have known better but blinded myself to the situation. I didn't want to see it in myself, so I didn't see it in him. As the saying goes, "You can't cheat an honest man." If someone cheats me, I ask what is wrong with me?

 

[Giuliano]

Even playing with a Ouija board can be very harmful and if you've ever done it you need to repent of it. Also consulting mediums or horoscopes etc which are supposed to predict your future is a dangerous practice although on the surface they seem innocuous.

If people avoid the worldly examples, how do they know what to avoid in churches?

Should we attend a church because we can see signs and wonders?

 

[Pearl]

In my younger days, I tried using a Ouija board. It wouldn't work for me. Years later, I found out why. Do you know why they can be dangerous?

I got talked into 'playing' with a Ouija board which wasn't even a real one. I t was only once but it had a profound effect on my life with the loss of an unborn baby and a marriage break up. They are dangerous because they are supposed to allow you to communicate with dead spirits but they are evil spirits.

What is the difference between using mediums or horoscopes and asking a "prophet" to tell you what the future will be? Pretty much, the same type of spiritual principles are being used. What makes one bad and another one good? I can tell you I have a low opinion of many so-called prophets who claim to inspired by God. It looks like fortune-telling to me. Real prophecy is a lot more than a mere prediction about the future.

Different spiritual principles Giuliano - evil and good. A medium speaks the voice of evil, and deceives even though it might sound good. A prophet speaks the word of God which will come to pass in due time.

And I do not have a low opinion of true prophets so I don't know where you got that from. True prophets are an important part of the Christian Church, along with pastors, preachers teachers and evangelists. Sadly some religious organisations have relied on false prophets.

 

[Giuliano]

I got talked into 'playing' with a Ouija board which wasn't even a real one. I t was only once but it had a profound effect on my life with the loss of an unborn baby and a marriage break up. They are dangerous because they are supposed to allow you to communicate with dead spirits but they are evil spirits.

Don't answer if the question is too private, but I'm curious how you lost a baby and a marriage.

I'd give a different answer to the why they are dangerous: People are asking an outside force to control their bodies.

Different spiritual principles Giuliano - evil and good. A medium speaks the voice of evil, and deceives even though it might sound good. A prophet speaks the word of God which will come to pass in due time.

Why does anyone need to know about the future?

And I do not have a low opinion of true prophets so I don't know where you got that from. True prophets are an important part of the Christian Church, along with pastors, preachers teachers and evangelists. Sadly some religious organisations have relied on false prophets.

What good are prophets doing? Even if they foretell things correctly, what good does that do? Why are people so curious about the future? What I often see are prophets acting like fortunetellers, not prophets.

Some so-called prophets are so far out, I think they make Christians look bad. This guy is not a real prophet.

 

[brian100]

For me, I got to see a Luke person, and he was real people like you see everyday. One of my biggest fears was believing I would be cursed to a bodiless spirit... I don't want that. I want real. The only way I could tell he was a messenger of God was when he dangled a pearl rosary at me. When I saw him we were always alone... saw him 3x. I'm not sure if God speeds up time to light speed or what so we could be alone.

 

[brian100]

If people avoid the worldly examples, how do they know what to avoid in churches?

Should we attend a church because we can see signs and wonders?

Jesus said people go to Church to be seen doing it and keep saying Yes to God.. but never do his will. Which are you?

That's why I'm here showing people stuff that I know about.

 

[Enoch111]

Why are people so curious about the future?

Call it unhealthy curiosity. The broad outlines of the present and the future are all laid out in Scripture. But that should never be the focus for Christians.

 

[Joseph77]

Why are people so curious about the future? What I often see are prophets acting like fortunetellers, not prophets.

What does the Father in Heaven Reveal about this in His Word and Spirit ?

Why are the people you know or are acquainted with so curious about the future ?

Have you sought faithful people (true Ekklesia, born again, faithful to Jesus, following Jesus)
who are not at all curious about the future ?

Where to the sinful desires come from in the unfaithful people who are curious ? (and in the faithful people also ? )

 

[brian100]

Time is a prison.. if we never aged it would be heaven. That's where I want to go with the wife. The everlasting Kingdom on Earth. Its running along side this crazy time machine we are all in and only now matters. But as you age.. the future don't matter anymore. That's what God wants you to know, that we we live in the other Kingdom where everything turns to dust.

That spirit thing .. I don't want to see. I've already seen it in the dream world. You can't touch nothing.

 

[theophilus]

For me, I got to see a Luke person, and he was real people like you see everyday. One of my biggest fears was believing I would be cursed to a bodiless spirit... I don't want that. I want real. The only way I could tell he was a messenger of God was when he dangled a pearl rosary at me. When I saw him we were always alone... saw him 3x. I'm not sure if God speeds up time to light speed or what so we could be alone.

Are you sure it was a real person you saw and not a demon in disguise?

 

[brian100]

Are you sure it was a real person you saw and not a demon in disguise?

He wrote me a post card if that is real for you. Just some very happy stranger whom I never met before. The odds on that happening is trillions to one.

 

[brian100]

You're being manipulated by demons brian but think they are messengers from God...take stock and be self honest.

Yeah that's the normal response only that demons are bodiless spirits. This guy was flesh and blood! Real person. Showed me his pearls. The Rosary.

 

[Philip James]

1 - the Godly (From God) - We will talk about God, The Lord Jesus, The Holy Spirit, what is God capable of in today's world, miracles from God, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, supernatural gifts from God, angels that are messengers of God, how God can work through people's lives.

Hello Josho,

The 7 sacraments are gifts from God..

The Truth is established on the strength of 2 or more witnesses..

I call the Church in Rome and the Church in Alexandria as 2000 year old witnesses to the power of the Holy Spirit working in and through the sacraments.

Peace be with you!

Christ is risen!
Alleluia!

 

[brian100]

You wouldn't know you were in God's kingdom talking with them. When they come you're all alone is the only thing I've noticed. And its quiet.

They come to save your life.. or to speak with you. And yes it gets weird.. like wheres is everybody!