THE THRONE OF THE BEAST - HOW TO RECOGNIZE IT

[Zao is life]

Head of Assyria and head of the Northern kingdom of Israel, circa 790 B.C:

Isaiah 7:8-9
"For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is (king) Rezin; and within sixty-five years Ephraim shall be broken so that it shall not be a people. And the head of Ephraim is Samaria, and the head of Samaria is Remaliah's son. If you will not believe, surely you shall not be established."

In Isaiah 7:8-9 (above) HEAD/S = the seat of power / authority.

Jesus called Satan "the ruler of this world", and the apostle Paul called him "the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience", who we are told will give the beast of Revelation Chapter 13 his seat, power and great authority.

This is reflected in the crowns on the dragon's seven heads in Revelation 12:3, and on the horns of the ten kings in Revelation 13:1.

Seat of Satan, 1st century, A.D: Pergamon:

===========================​

There was a temple to Zeus in Pergamon. Zeus-worship was widespread in the ancient world, the Roman Empire being no exception. Zeus was the ancient Greek god of the sky and thunder, who ruled as 'king of the gods' of Mount Olympus.

The Roman equivalent is Jupiter, who was chief deity of Roman state religion throughout the Republican and Imperial eras, until the spread of Christianity killed Zeus-worship.

===========================​

Revelation 13:3
And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

The head of the Roman Empire was Rome, and the head of Rome was Caesar, the seat of the Roman Empire - yet Pargamon is called the seat / throne of Satan in Revelation 2:13, therefore since Zeus was the king of (all) the gods, we may want to look for another throne of the beast in the 1st century A.D, and in the Revelation.

Jesus tells the church at Pergamos:

"I know your works, and where you live, even where Satan's seat [Greek: thrónos] is. And you hold fast My name and have not denied My faith, even in those days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwells.

But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the teachings of Balaam, who taught Balak to cast a stumbling-block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit fornication.

So you also have those who hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

Repent! But if not I will come to you quickly, and will fight with them by the sword of My mouth."

Seat of the beast, Revelation 13:1-4
And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and its feet like those of a bear, and its mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power and his seat [Greek: thrónos] and great authority.

Seat of the beast, Revelation 16:10-11
And the fifth angel poured out his vial on the throne [Greek: thrónos] of the beast, and its kingdom became darkened. And they gnawed their tongues from the pain. And they blasphemed the God of Heaven because of their pains and their sores. And they did not repent of their deeds.

Revelation 13:3
"And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast."

Note: The seat / throne of Satan is the head of the beast.

Revelation 17
10 And there are seven kings; five have fallen, and one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, who have received no kingdom yet, but will receive authority as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast.

================================​

Since the 8th king is one of the seven, which head is it? The 6th or the 7th?

The 10 kings, who rule with the 8th king for "one hour", had not yet received their kingdoms when John received the Revelation, so the ten kings are not the 6th head.

Therefore the beast ascending out of the abyss (i.e the 8th king) can only be the 7th head of the beast (since it is one of the seven).

================================​

If we want to know where the throne of Satan / the beast is, We may want to look at what the saints in Pargamon were rebuked for, and at the fact that Jesus warned them to:

Repent! But if not I will come to you quickly, and will fight with them by the sword of My mouth.

 

[Zao is life]

Note: If the man of sin is not himself the one producing the signs and lying wonders, then the man of sin could be the beast of Revelation 13:1-9. But if he is himself producing the signs and lying wonders, then the man of sin could be the false prophet of Revelation 13:11-18.

Revelation 13
5 And a mouth speaking great things was given to it, and blasphemies. And authority was given to it to continue forty-two months.
6 And it opened its mouth in blasphemy toward God, to blaspheme His name and His tabernacle, and those dwelling in Heaven.

2 Thessalonians 2
3 Let not anyone deceive you by any means. For that Day shall not come unless there first comes a falling away, and the man of sin shall be revealed, the son of perdition,
4 who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God, or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, setting himself forth, that he is God.

9 whose coming is according to the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 and with all deceit of unrighteousness in those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, so that they might be saved.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Personally, I don't think there is a single "seat" on earth Satan rules from. The message to the 7 churches in Asia Minor were general descriptions. Satan may have had a "seat" in all of these cities--not just one. The account of the 7 kings in Rev 17 indicate that the 7 leaders behind Antichrist present a riddle, in order to identify it. They can be used to represent 7 historical kingdoms beginning with Egypt, the 6th kingdom being the one presently ruling in John's time, which is Rome. The 7th kingdom appears to be the kingdom that Antichrist, the 8th king, will rule over.

In the present age Satan's rule is evident in the dominance of evil rulers on earth, who achieve popularity and support from a corrupt civilization. The former Christian domains have apostacized, and now support evil, compromised rulers. The pagan nations have always supported corrupt, evil rulers. God still has representatives on earth, politically, but this is shaping up to become a world war in the near future. We can only speculate on how it will all turn out.

 

[Zao is life]

Personally, I don't think there is a single "seat" on earth Satan rules from. The message to the 7 churches in Asia Minor were general descriptions. Satan may have had a "seat" in all of these cities--not just one. The account of the 7 kings in Rev 17 indicate that the 7 leaders behind Antichrist present a riddle, in order to identify it. They can be used to represent 7 historical kingdoms beginning with Egypt, the 6th kingdom being the one presently ruling in John's time, which is Rome. The 7th kingdom appears to be the kingdom that Antichrist, the 8th king, will rule over.

In the present age Satan's rule is evident in the dominance of evil rulers on earth, who achieve popularity and support from a corrupt civilization. The former Christian domains have apostacized, and now support evil, compromised rulers. The pagan nations have always supported corrupt, evil rulers. God still has representatives on earth, politically, but this is shaping up to become a world war in the near future. We can only speculate on how it will all turn out.

I partially agree but the difference between the beast of Rome (the 6th head of the beast which existed when John received the Revelation) and the final king / beast of Revelation 13 is that the seat of Revelation 13's beast is also Satan's seat - the dragon will give him his seat, throne and great authority.

And all kingdoms / empires / unions have political authorities with their seat of power in a city somewhere in the world.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Head of Assyria and head of the Northern kingdom of Israel, circa 790 B.C:

Isaiah 7:8-9
"For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is (king) Rezin; and within sixty-five years Ephraim shall be broken so that it shall not be a people. And the head of Ephraim is Samaria, and the head of Samaria is Remaliah's son. If you will not believe, surely you shall not be established."

In Isaiah 7:8-9 (above) HEAD/S = the seat of power / authority.

Jesus called Satan "the ruler of this world", and the apostle Paul called him "the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience", who we are told will give the beast of Revelation Chapter 13 his seat, power and great authority.

This is reflected in the crowns on the dragon's seven heads in Revelation 12:3, and on the horns of the ten kings in Revelation 13:1.

Seat of Satan, 1st century, A.D: Pergamon:

View attachment 26754

===========================​

There was a temple to Zeus in Pergamon. Zeus-worship was widespread in the ancient world, the Roman Empire being no exception. Zeus was the ancient Greek god of the sky and thunder, who ruled as 'king of the gods' of Mount Olympus.

The Roman equivalent is Jupiter, who was chief deity of Roman state religion throughout the Republican and Imperial eras, until the spread of Christianity killed Zeus-worship.

===========================​

Revelation 13:3
And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

The head of the Roman Empire was Rome, and the head of Rome was Caesar, the seat of the Roman Empire - yet Pargamon is called the seat / throne of Satan in Revelation 2:13, therefore since Zeus was the king of (all) the gods, we may want to look for another throne of the beast in the 1st century A.D, and in the Revelation.

Jesus tells the church at Pergamos:

"I know your works, and where you live, even where Satan's seat [Greek: thrónos] is. And you hold fast My name and have not denied My faith, even in those days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwells.

But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the teachings of Balaam, who taught Balak to cast a stumbling-block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit fornication.

So you also have those who hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

Repent! But if not I will come to you quickly, and will fight with them by the sword of My mouth."

Seat of the beast, Revelation 13:1-4
And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and its feet like those of a bear, and its mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power and his seat [Greek: thrónos] and great authority.

Seat of the beast, Revelation 16:10-11
And the fifth angel poured out his vial on the throne [Greek: thrónos] of the beast, and its kingdom became darkened. And they gnawed their tongues from the pain. And they blasphemed the God of Heaven because of their pains and their sores. And they did not repent of their deeds.

Revelation 13:3
"And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast."

Note: The seat / throne of Satan is the head of the beast.

Revelation 17
10 And there are seven kings; five have fallen, and one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, who have received no kingdom yet, but will receive authority as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast.

================================​

Since the 8th king is one of the seven, which head is it? The 6th or the 7th?

The 10 kings, who rule with the 8th king for "one hour", had not yet received their kingdoms when John received the Revelation, so the ten kings are not the 6th head.

Therefore the beast ascending out of the abyss (i.e the 8th king) can only be the 7th head of the beast (since it is one of the seven).

================================​

If we want to know where the throne of Satan / the beast is, We may want to look at what the saints in Pargamon were rebuked for, and at the fact that Jesus warned them to:

Repent! But if not I will come to you quickly, and will fight with them by the sword of My mouth.

Thanks of the great history! However your conclusions are very faulty.

Teh 8th king is not one of the seven. when it says He is of the seven, it means similar or like not actually one of them.

The 8th king does not ascend out of the abyss, but will descend into the abyss.

As for thronos? Coupled with power and authority, it most likely means an actual rule. As Satan is the god of this world, Satan gives his counterfeit Messiah His rule which is the power and authority over this world. The same "thronos" he offered Jesus and refused in the desert .

 

[Zao is life]

Thanks of the great history!

Thanks for your response. However, your post contradicts what the text in Revelation 17 says:

The 8th king does not ascend out of the abyss, but will descend into the abyss.

8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and is about to ascend out of the abyss and go into perdition. And those dwelling on the earth will marvel, those whose names were not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition.

I know many Christians today will find a way around any word or sentence or verse or passage that contradicts an aspect of their theology, but personally I'm never convinced by those sorts of dances of error with truth.

As for thronos? Coupled with power and authority, it most likely means an actual rule. As Satan is the god of this world, Satan gives his counterfeit Messiah His rule which is the power and authority over this world. The same "thronos" he offered Jesus and refused in the desert .

That's saying the same thing my post said, but adding any words or ideas (like "Satan's counterfeit Messiah") to any portion of scripture is just another one of those dances that can either lead to all kinds of false doctrines, or support all kinds of false doctrines.

Even so, in the Revelation we do see Christ descending from the highest place - the throne of God in heaven - and destroying the beast, who ascends from the lowest place - the bottomless pit.

Christ's authority and power is God the Father, and His Spirit is Holy. The beast's authority and power is the dragon, and unclean spirits come out of the "mouths" of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet.

Worship of the beast or his image of the beast results in eternal destruction, but worship of Christ, who is the image of God, results in eternal life (Revelation 14:6-12).

But you have the beast descending into the bottomless pit (despite what the text says) so already you've lost that part of the flow in the Revelation.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I partially agree but the difference between the beast of Rome (the 6th head of the beast which existed when John received the Revelation) and the final king / beast of Revelation 13 is that the seat of Revelation 13's beast is also Satan's seat - the dragon will give him his seat, throne and great authority.

And all kingdoms / empires / unions have political authorities with their seat of power in a city somewhere in the world.

Well that's what I don't know. I do believe demons have geographical locations, just as humans do. But they are not physical beings such as men are. I'm sure they have substance, but for lack of a better word we may call them spirit-beings. So if they have a different physical substance, can we really define their "seat" as a geographical location? Perhaps.

Incidentally, the Beast of Rev 13 is both a single man and an entire Kingdom dating back to ancient Rome. It is a reference back to the 4th Beast of Dan 7, which I believe was Rome. And it was said to be the final Kingdom in the age of satanic kingdoms. I really don't know if this is significant to you or not. I'm just saying it.

The Roman Kingdom seems to have fallen with the fall of Rome in 476 AD. But in reality, it persevered and evolved into the Holy Roman Empire. In the East it continued until 1453 AD and then evolved into the Russian Kingdom.

 

[Zao is life]

Well that's what I don't know. I do believe demons have geographical locations, just as humans do. But they are not physical beings such as men are. I'm sure they have substance, but for lack of a better word we may call them spirit-beings. So if they have a different physical substance, can we really define their "seat" as a geographical location? Perhaps.

Incidentally, the Beast of Rev 13 is both a single man and an entire Kingdom dating back to ancient Rome. It is a reference back to the 4th Beast of Dan 7, which I believe was Rome. And it was said to be the final Kingdom in the age of satanic kingdoms. I really don't know if this is significant to you or not. I'm just saying it.

The Roman Kingdom seems to have fallen with the fall of Rome in 476 AD. But in reality, it persevered and evolved into the Holy Roman Empire. In the East it continued until 1453 AD and then evolved into the Russian Kingdom.

You could be right about some of those things. This thread is just a discussion wrt idnetities and geographies because I have no clue even as to the possible actual identity of either Revelation 13's beast or Daniel 7's 4th beast. Or the feet of Nebuchadnezzar's image in Daniel 2. There is a seeming (seeming) discrepancy between the time in history for the existence of Daniel's 4th kingdom and Revelation's beast, and between the statement in Daniel about the evil one subduing three kings and what is said in Revelation.

But the Revelation is an unveiling, and it's the Revelation of Jesus Christ Himself (Revelation 1:1) so I don't interpret the Revelation by Daniel, but supposing Daniel's 4th beast 'should be' interpreted in terms of the end of our Age, then it needs to be interpreted by the Revelation of Jesus Christ, not the other way around.

But I don't have any ideas as to the actual identities (names, nationalities, geographic locations etc) of either the man of sin of 2 Thess 2 or Revelation's beast. It may be that the 10 toes of Neb's image are the two halves of the former Roman Empire - half of which is Islamic today - and it could be that Daniel's 4th beast is that one. But it might not be. I don't like guessing where I don't know.

 

[Randy Kluth]

You could be right about some of those things. This thread is just a discussion wrt idnetities and geographies because I have no clue even as to the possible actual identity of either Revelation 13's beast or Daniel 7's 4th beast. Or the feet of Nebuchadnezzar's image in Daniel 2. There is a seeming (seeming) discrepancy between the time in history for the existence of Daniel's 4th kingdom and Revelation's beast, and between the statement in Daniel about the evil one subduing three kings and what is said in Revelation.

But the Revelation is an unveiling, and it's the Revelation of Jesus Christ Himself (Revelation 1:1) so I don't interpret the Revelation by Daniel, but supposing Daniel's 4th beast 'should be' interpreted in terms of the end of our Age, then it needs to be interpreted by the Revelation of Jesus Christ, not the other way around.

But I don't have any ideas as to the actual identities (names, nationalities, geographic locations etc) of either the man of sin of 2 Thess 2 or Revelation's beast. It may be that the 10 toes of Neb's image are the two halves of the former Roman Empire - half of which is Islamic today - and it could be that Daniel's 4th beast is that one. But it might not be. I don't like guessing where I don't know.

I totally respect that. I try to be real honest about my lack of certainty too--it's the safest place to be.

Anyway, I do think the 2 feet of Nebuchadnezzar's Image represents the 2 halves of the ancient Roman Empire. And in the endtimes, these 2 halves are still apparent in the form of 5 toes on each foot, 5 nations in the West and 5 nations in the East. All of this is in Europe, because that's where Rome was located.

Incidentally, your view that the book of Revelation has to do with the actual revelation of Jesus I don't agree with. It is the revelation of things to come--not a revelation of Jesus himself. Of course, within the book Jesus is also revealed in various ways. But the book is called "Revelation" because it is a revelation of things prophetically. Just my take....

I don't think there's any way to avoid interpreting the book of Revelation by reference to the book of Daniel. Revelation is chalk full of information from Daniel, not the least of which is the "Beast" image. In Dan 7 we have the major OT prophecy of the Antichrist Kingdom. The 7 heads and 10 horns likely come from the 10 kings allied with the "Little Horn" in Dan 7, 3 of which are defeated by Antichrist. This leaves 10 nations and 7 kings allied with the Antichrist, which is why he is called the Beast. He is head over this entire Kingdom.

Yes, this is just a speculative discussion. I often come across like a "know it all," but I know I don't. Thanks for your honesty and for the discussion.

 

[ewq1938]

The 7 heads and 10 horns likely come from the 10 kings allied with the "Little Horn" in Dan 7, 3 of which are defeated by Antichrist.

And of course in Rev the AC/beast does not defeat or uproot 3 of the 10 horns/kings.

Revelation is chalk full of information from Daniel

Information that's different than what is found in Daniel. Both use similar imagery, but much of the important details do not match.

 

[Zao is life]

Incidentally, your view that the book of Revelation has to do with the actual revelation of Jesus I don't agree with. It is the revelation of things to come--not a revelation of Jesus himself. Of course, within the book Jesus is also revealed in various ways. But the book is called "Revelation" because it is a revelation of things prophetically. Just my take....

What you said is what I meant. The Revelation of Jesus Christ as in "the ownership is His to give to His servants". That's what I understand Revelation 1:1 to mean:

The unveiling of things hidden which the Father gave to the Son to give to His servants, which was sent and signified by the hand of angels to John...

.. just to complicate things from the start. Praise God. He makes sure from the start that we concentrate on every word.

I totally respect that. I try to be real honest about my lack of certainty too--it's the safest place to be.

Anyway, I do think the 2 feet of Nebuchadnezzar's Image represents the 2 halves of the ancient Roman Empire. And in the endtimes, these 2 halves are still apparent in the form of 5 toes on each foot, 5 nations in the West and 5 nations in the East. All of this is in Europe, because that's where Rome was located.

I don't think there's any way to avoid interpreting the book of Revelation by reference to the book of Daniel. Revelation is chalk full of information from Daniel, not the least of which is the "Beast" image. In Dan 7 we have the major OT prophecy of the Antichrist Kingdom. The 7 heads and 10 horns likely come from the 10 kings allied with the "Little Horn" in Dan 7, 3 of which are defeated by Antichrist. This leaves 10 nations and 7 kings allied with the Antichrist, which is why he is called the Beast. He is head over this entire Kingdom.

.. or 7 kings instead of the 10 we started with.. (just a thought without any "belief in this theory" giving it strength in my mind).

Yes, this is just a speculative discussion. I often come across like a "know it all," but I know I don't. Thanks for your honesty and for the discussion.

And thank you too brother.

 

[Truth7t7]

Yes, this is just a speculative discussion. I often come across like a "know it all," but I know I don't. Thanks for your honesty and for the discussion.

Yeah like your claim of the fairy tale dream of "National Salvation" for Israel, what a joke!

 

[Randy Kluth]

Yeah like your claim of the fairy tale dream of "National Salvation" for Israel, what a joke!

You are rejecting God's promise to Abraham to have a nation built from his descendants. That's no joke. You are basically questioning God's integrity.

 

[Randy Kluth]

And of course in Rev the AC/beast does not defeat or uproot 3 of the 10 horns/kings.

Information that's different than what is found in Daniel. Both use similar imagery, but much of the important details do not match.

My effort here was to match them up, which I did. Am I certain about this? No.

 

[Davy]

Head of Assyria and head of the Northern kingdom of Israel, circa 790 B.C:

Isaiah 7:8-9
"For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is (king) Rezin; and within sixty-five years Ephraim shall be broken so that it shall not be a people. And the head of Ephraim is Samaria, and the head of Samaria is Remaliah's son. If you will not believe, surely you shall not be established."

In Isaiah 7:8-9 (above) HEAD/S = the seat of power / authority.

Jesus called Satan "the ruler of this world", and the apostle Paul called him "the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now works in the children of disobedience", who we are told will give the beast of Revelation Chapter 13 his seat, power and great authority.

This is reflected in the crowns on the dragon's seven heads in Revelation 12:3, and on the horns of the ten kings in Revelation 13:1.

Seat of Satan, 1st century, A.D: Pergamon:

View attachment 26754

===========================​

There was a temple to Zeus in Pergamon. Zeus-worship was widespread in the ancient world, the Roman Empire being no exception. Zeus was the ancient Greek god of the sky and thunder, who ruled as 'king of the gods' of Mount Olympus.

The Roman equivalent is Jupiter, who was chief deity of Roman state religion throughout the Republican and Imperial eras, until the spread of Christianity killed Zeus-worship.

===========================​

Revelation 13:3
And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

The head of the Roman Empire was Rome, and the head of Rome was Caesar, the seat of the Roman Empire - yet Pargamon is called the seat / throne of Satan in Revelation 2:13, therefore since Zeus was the king of (all) the gods, we may want to look for another throne of the beast in the 1st century A.D, and in the Revelation.

Jesus tells the church at Pergamos:

"I know your works, and where you live, even where Satan's seat [Greek: thrónos] is. And you hold fast My name and have not denied My faith, even in those days in which Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwells.

But I have a few things against you, because you have there those who hold the teachings of Balaam, who taught Balak to cast a stumbling-block before the sons of Israel, to eat things sacrificed to idols and to commit fornication.

So you also have those who hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.

Repent! But if not I will come to you quickly, and will fight with them by the sword of My mouth."

Seat of the beast, Revelation 13:1-4
And the beast which I saw was like a leopard, and its feet like those of a bear, and its mouth like the mouth of a lion. And the dragon gave him his power and his seat [Greek: thrónos] and great authority.

Seat of the beast, Revelation 16:10-11
And the fifth angel poured out his vial on the throne [Greek: thrónos] of the beast, and its kingdom became darkened. And they gnawed their tongues from the pain. And they blasphemed the God of Heaven because of their pains and their sores. And they did not repent of their deeds.

Revelation 13:3
"And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast."

Note: The seat / throne of Satan is the head of the beast.

Revelation 17
10 And there are seven kings; five have fallen, and one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time.
11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition.
12 And the ten horns which you saw are ten kings, who have received no kingdom yet, but will receive authority as kings one hour with the beast.
13 These have one mind, and they will give their power and authority to the beast.

================================​

Since the 8th king is one of the seven, which head is it? The 6th or the 7th?

The 10 kings, who rule with the 8th king for "one hour", had not yet received their kingdoms when John received the Revelation, so the ten kings are not the 6th head.

Therefore the beast ascending out of the abyss (i.e the 8th king) can only be the 7th head of the beast (since it is one of the seven).

================================​

If we want to know where the throne of Satan / the beast is, We may want to look at what the saints in Pargamon were rebuked for, and at the fact that Jesus warned them to:

Repent! But if not I will come to you quickly, and will fight with them by the sword of My mouth.

That is an example of not understanding metaphor in God's Word vs. when His Word is speaking literally.

Luke 4 revealed just how far reaching Satan's given authority in this world is, when he tempted Lord Jesus, taking Jesus up to a high mountain and showing Him ALL... the kingdoms of this world, and offering them to Lord Jesus if Jesus would follow him.

This means the following verse Jesus is speaking metaphorically about Satan's seat, simply to show those of the Church of Pergamos was in an area of heavy pagan worship.

Rev 2:13
13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast My name, and hast not denied My faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was My faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
KJV

Satan's power is given to be over all of this earth for this 'present' world earth age, except not over those in Christ, until the very end when he comes in person to play God in Jerusalem and persecute the saints.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goes into perdition.

I know many Christians today will find a way around any word or sentence or verse or passage that contradicts an aspect of their theology, but personally I'm never convinced by those sorts of dances of error with truth.

Well this means he is of the same character as the seven, not that he is one of th eseven.

If that were so then one of the seven would have had to ascend out of the pit, like you chided me for.

That's saying the same thing my post said, but adding any words or ideas (like "Satan's counterfeit Messiah") to any portion of scripture is just another one of those dances that can either lead to all kinds of false doctrines, or support all kinds of false doctrines.

Even so, in the Revelation we do see Christ descending from the highest place - the throne of God in heaven - and destroying the beast, who ascends from the lowest place - the bottomless pit.

Christ's authority and power is God the Father, and His Spirit is Holy. The beast's authority and power is the dragon, and unclean spirits come out of the "mouths" of the dragon, the beast, and the false prophet.

Worship of the beast or his image of the beast results in eternal destruction, but worship of Christ, who is the image of God, results in eternal life (Revelation 14:6-12).

But you have the beast descending into the bottomless pit (despite what the text says) so already you've lost that part of the flow in the Revelation.

1. He is Satans counterfeit Messiah.
2. Just like we have the tri-une god we have th e tri-une counterfeit god. Satan, the beast and the false prophet.
3. Jesus seals with the holy spirit, the false prophets seals with a mark.
4. The antichrist is satans physical son. Gen. 3:15 both seeds are in the singular. so if the seed of the woman is one person (Jesus) the seed of the serpent is one person (the beast.
5. While God the Son rejected Satans offer of all the kingdoms of the world, Satans son will accept that offer which is why Satan gives HIm great power, authority and "thronos"(rule)

 

[Zao is life]

Well this means he is of the same character as the seven, not that he is one of th eseven.

If that were so then one of the seven would have had to ascend out of the pit, like you chided me for.



1. He is Satans counterfeit Messiah.
2. Just like we have the tri-une god we have th e tri-une counterfeit god. Satan, the beast and the false prophet.
3. Jesus seals with the holy spirit, the false prophets seals with a mark.
4. The antichrist is satans physical son. Gen. 3:15 both seeds are in the singular. so if the seed of the woman is one person (Jesus) the seed of the serpent is one person (the beast.
5. While God the Son rejected Satans offer of all the kingdoms of the world, Satans son will accept that offer which is why Satan gives HIm great power, authority and "thronos"(rule)

That's an interesting thought in point #4 but seed is written in the singular every time thereafter also, even when the plural is meant: seeds. This is exactly why "if it is not written, don't believe it" is my policy. Too many false doctrines and beliefs come from assumptions like that (though I'm not saying that your point #4 has no truth in it - it might have, and it might not have).

But Revelation 17 tells us the beast will ascend. Nowhere does it use the word "descend". And I disagree with the assumption that the 8th king is of the seven in terms of his character only. The ten kings will reign with him and hand over the kingdom and power to him. The 10 kings are not handing their power over to someone who exists at another time and is only one of them in character. They rule with the 8th king for one hour.

The 6th head was probably the Roman Empire. The 7th head had not come yet when John received the Revelation. Neither had the 10 kings received their kingdom yet. So the 7th head of the beast can only be the 8th king / kingdom ruling with and over the 10 kings - i.e the beast ascended from the abyss, i.e Revelation 13's beast from the sea who receives his seat, throne and great authority from Satan.

 

[Davy]

Well this means he is of the same character as the seven, not that he is one of th eseven.

If that were so then one of the seven would have had to ascend out of the pit, like you chided me for.

God's Word is... pointing to Satan coming to OUR earthly dimension to perform miracles that will deceive the whole world, except those whose names were written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world. Revelation 13:4 says the whole world will worship "the dragon", which is another title for Satan per Revelation 12:9. And Revelation 12:7 forward reveals Satan is to be cast completely out... of the Heavenly dimension with his angels, down to earth, meaning in OUR earthly dimension.

So yeah, when Revelation 11:7 says the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit will make war against God's two witnesses and kill them, that will be Satan, de facto, walking upon this earth in plain sight. But men's doctrines from Satan's servants are designed to try and HIDE this revelation written in God's Word, even by falsely using the word 'man' to only mean one born in the flesh.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

That's an interesting thought in point #4 but seed is written in the singular every time thereafter also, even when the plural is meant: seeds. This is exactly why "if it is not written, don't believe it" is my policy. Too many false doctrines and beliefs come from assumptions like that (though I'm not saying that your point #4 has no truth in it - it might have, and it might not have).

So you feel the need to correct God now? Was god having a bad day and you caught Him at it? Or are you forgetting that seed in English can be singular or plural depending on context- but not in Hebrew???

 

[Davy]

Well this means he is of the same character as the seven, not that he is one of th eseven.

If that were so then one of the seven would have had to ascend out of the pit, like you chided me for.

But it does... mean that Satan will actually be the 7th beast king.

Rev 17:10-11
10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.
KJV

"And there are seven kings: five are fallen" = previous beast kings, Babylon, Egypt, Assyria, Medo-Persia, Grecia.

"and one is" = Roman, emperor Domitian in Apostle John's day.

"and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space" = the coming Antichrist for the end of this present world, i.e., the "dragon" of Revelation 13, the "another beast", Lucifer, the beast that ascends out of the bottomless pit to kill God's two witnesses in Jerusalem and make war upon the saints during that "short space" (i.e., the "great tribulation").

"And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition" = Satan, the "dragon", "that old serpent". Only he and his angels have already been judged and sentenced to perish in the future "lake of fire", which is the meaning of the word 'perdition'. This 8th beast king time is for the end... of Christ's future "thousand years" reign, when Satan will be loosed from his pit prison one final time to go tempt the unsaved nations, as written in Revelation 20.