The timing of the 6th seal

[Heb 13:8]

Matt 24:29 is describing the end of the 70th week at His second coming. So if the 6th seal is also at the end of the 70th week (sun, moon, stars) as some might believe, the 7th seal has to be prior to that which makes the seals non-chronological?

Or maybe just maybe, Joel 2:31 and Rev 6:12 are on a separate time line than Matt 24:29, one at the AofD and the other at His second coming. Could it be that "stars" in the sixth seal are fallen angels at the AofD, Rev 12:4, 9? Notice in Matt 24:29 that there is no mention of a blood moon...

Joel 2:31 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

Matt 24:29 "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

https://www.google.com/search?sourc...j33i160k1j33i22i29i30k1j33i21k1.0.720Kj6SKJFI

- Heb

 

[Heart2Soul]

Matt 24:29 is describing the end of the 70th week at His second coming. So if the 6th seal is also at the end of the 70th week (sun, moon, stars) as some might believe, the 7th seal has to be prior to that which makes the seals non-chronological?

Or maybe just maybe, Joel 2:31 and Rev 6:12 are on a separate time line than Matt 24:29, one at the AofD and the other at His second coming. Could it be that "stars" in the sixth seal are fallen angels at the AofD, Rev 12:4, 9? Notice in Matt 24:29 that there is no mention of a blood moon...

Joel 2:31 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

Matt 24:29 "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

https://www.google.com/search?sourc...j33i160k1j33i22i29i30k1j33i21k1.0.720Kj6SKJFI

- Heb

Wow you didn't get much response on this but you have pointed out an interesting comparison of the moon. I am going to do some research and see what I can find out. If you have gained more knowledge of this since your first post please update and share!

 

[Heb 13:8]

Wow you didn't get much response on this but you have pointed out an interesting comparison of the moon. I am going to do some research and see what I can find out. If you have gained more knowledge of this since your first post please update and share!

If we can find scientific evidence that the moon still gives its light during a blood moon, then we can prove the sixth seal is prior to His second coming. I see the seals as chronological, 7th seal occurring after 6th seal. I'm just brainstorming though.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Matt 24:29 could be describing Planet X, maybe? Mark 15:33.

 

[Enoch111]

Matt 24:29 is describing the end of the 70th week at His second coming. So if the 6th seal is also at the end of the 70th week (sun, moon, stars) as some might believe, the 7th seal has to be prior to that which makes the seals non-chronological?

Yes, it would seem that in this case, the 6th seal should have been the 7th seal, since all those cataclysmic cosmic events happen AFTER the Great Tribulation (a.k.a. the day of the LORD) and just before the Second Coming of Christ.

As to surmising that the falling stars are angels, that would not fit, since everything here relates to actual heavenly bodies, and the *shaking* of the heavens.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Yes, it would seem that in this case, the 6th seal should have been the 7th seal, since all those cataclysmic cosmic events happen AFTER the Great Tribulation (a.k.a. the day of the LORD) and just before the Second Coming of Christ.

I do believe the DOTL spans from rapture all the way to the New Earth.

As to surmising that the falling stars are angels, that would not fit, since everything here relates to actual heavenly bodies, and the *shaking* of the heavens.

Isa 14:12 How you have fallen from heaven, morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

Luke 10:18 He replied, "I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

2 Cor 11:14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

2 Pet 2:4 For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them in chains of darkness to be held for judgment;

Rev 9:1 The fifth angel sounded his trumpet, and I saw a star that had fallen from the sky to the earth. The star was given the key to the shaft of the Abyss.

 

[Nancy]

Matt 24:29 is describing the end of the 70th week at His second coming. So if the 6th seal is also at the end of the 70th week (sun, moon, stars) as some might believe, the 7th seal has to be prior to that which makes the seals non-chronological?

Or maybe just maybe, Joel 2:31 and Rev 6:12 are on a separate time line than Matt 24:29, one at the AofD and the other at His second coming. Could it be that "stars" in the sixth seal are fallen angels at the AofD, Rev 12:4, 9? Notice in Matt 24:29 that there is no mention of a blood moon...

Joel 2:31 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

Matt 24:29 "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

https://www.google.com/search?sourc...j33i160k1j33i22i29i30k1j33i21k1.0.720Kj6SKJFI

- Heb

All of this is so interesting, intriguing but, I do not have near enough knowledge to even reply, lol.

 

[quietthinker]

Matt 24:29 is describing the end of the 70th week at His second coming. So if the 6th seal is also at the end of the 70th week (sun, moon, stars) as some might believe, the 7th seal has to be prior to that which makes the seals non-chronological?

Or maybe just maybe, Joel 2:31 and Rev 6:12 are on a separate time line than Matt 24:29, one at the AofD and the other at His second coming. Could it be that "stars" in the sixth seal are fallen angels at the AofD, Rev 12:4, 9? Notice in Matt 24:29 that there is no mention of a blood moon...

Joel 2:31 The sun will be turned to darkness and the moon to blood before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD.

Matt 24:29 "Immediately after the distress of those days "'the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.'

Rev 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;

https://www.google.com/search?sourc...j33i160k1j33i22i29i30k1j33i21k1.0.720Kj6SKJFI

- Heb

Heb, you might like to consider the time lines below

 

[Heb 13:8]

Heb, you might like to consider the time lines below
View attachment 3340

Historic fulfillment would discredit the Rev 12:1-5 sign that came to pass on 9/23/17, and that is false.

 

[quietthinker]

Historic fulfillment would discredit the Rev 12:1-5 sign that came to pass on 9/23/17, and that is false.

what was it that came to pass on 9/23/17?

 

[Heb 13:8]

what was it that came to pass on 9/23/17?

The Great Sign in Rev 12:1-5.

 

[quietthinker]

The Great Sign in Rev 12:1-5.

how did that manifest?

 

[Jay Ross]

Heb, you might like to consider the time lines below
View attachment 3340

For what it is worth, the referenced signposts on the timeline given above in the presented diagram, are wrong and lead to the wrong conclusions. I could claim IMHO that the end point error was around 200 years in error. I could also claim, IMHO, that the 457 BC starting point for the Daniel 9 : 24 and would probably be around the year 494 BC.

I will also claim that, IMHO, the starting point on the time line for the Daniel 9: 25 and the Daniel 8: 13-14 do not co-inside as the diagram suggests, which was probably generated by Ellen White.

But like many do, people bring out past understandings as if they are still relevant in todays unfolding relevations.

Shalom

 

[quietthinker]

For what it is worth, the referenced signposts on the timeline given above in the presented diagram, are wrong and lead to the wrong conclusions. I could claim IMHO that the end point error was around 200 years in error. I could also claim, IMHO, that the 457 BC starting point for the Daniel 9 : 24 and probably be around the year 9494 BC.

I will also claim that, IMHO, the starting point on the time line for the Daniel 9: 25 and the Daniel 8: 13-14 do not co-inside as the diagram suggests, which was probably generated by Ellen White.

But like many like to do, people bring out past understandings as if they are still relevant in todays unfolding relevations.

Shalom

Have you read Ellen White, Jay?

 

[Jay Ross]

Have you read Ellen White, Jay?

Was the diagram that you attached to your post above a representation of the things that Ellen G White had taught during her lifetime?

 

[quietthinker]

Was the diagram that you attached to your post above a representation of the things that Ellen G White had taught during her lifetime?

Im not familiar with that. Have you read Ellen White?

 

[brakelite]

Was the diagram that you attached to your post above a representation of the things that Ellen G White had taught during her lifetime?

Regardless of who has taught it, or parts thereof, in the past; regardless of who teaches it today; why not simply look at the evidence and judge it on its own merits?

 

[Enoch111]

I do believe the DOTL spans from rapture all the way to the New Earth.

That is not possible. For a proper understanding of the DOTL study the OT.

Also all your references to angels are fine in context. But not in the context of the 6th seal (all heavenly bodies):

REV 6
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun [heavenly body] became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon [heavenly body] became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven [heavenly bodies] fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven [where heavenly bodies exist] departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.

 

[Jay Ross]

Im not familiar with that. Have you read Ellen White?

Regardless of who has taught it, or parts thereof, in the past; regardless of who teaches it today; why not simply look at the evidence and judge it on its own merits?

Quitethinker, to provide a diagram without also providing the source data as to who generated the diagram in the first place and from where the diagram can be sourced now, is not an acceptable practice where information is being exchanged.

Brakelite, all the evidence is contained within the diagram, provided by Quitethinker in his previous post, by which the diagram can be judged.

With what I understand of the timelines of Daniel 8 and 9 I quickly came to the conclusion that the diagram presents false understanding as to when the Daniel 8 and 9 prophecies have and/or will be occurring. After considering the available resources on the Internet, the diagram is reasonably consistent with available SDA theological teaching on the End Times documented on the various web pages that are readily available.

Now when I considered the published and usual web teachings on, say, the Daniel 2 statue prophecy in conjunction with the Daniel 7 beast prophecy, I can only draw the conclusion that the accepted teachings on just these two prophetic chapters is grossly flawed, particularly with many of the currently popular End Time protagonists who regularly publish their thoughts in the books that they churn out where they point to various possible people groups as the current target for which people group, nation or empire is representative of the Biblical descriptions associated with the End Times.

To the best of my knowledge, the current SDA teaching on the End times also falls into this group.

Shalom.

 

[quietthinker]

Quitethinker, to provide a diagram without also providing the source data as to who generated the diagram in the first place and from where the diagram can be sourced now, is not an acceptable practice where information is being exchanged.

Brakelite, all the evidence is contained within the diagram, provided by Quitethinker in his previous post, by which the diagram can be judged.

With what I understand of the timelines of Daniel 8 and 9 I quickly came to the conclusion that the diagram presents false understanding as to when the Daniel 8 and 9 prophecies have and/or will be occurring. After considering the available resources on the Internet, the diagram is reasonably consistent with available SDA theological teaching on the End Times documented on the various web pages that are readily available.

Now when I considered the published and usual web teachings on, say, the Daniel 2 statue prophecy in conjunction with the Daniel 7 beast prophecy, I can only draw the conclusion that the accepted teachings on just these two prophetic chapters is grossly flawed, particularly with many of the currently popular End Time protagonists who regularly publish their thoughts in the books that they churn out where they point to various possible people groups as the current target for which people group, nation or empire is representative of the Biblical descriptions associated with the End Times.

To the best of my knowledge, the current SDA teaching on the End times also falls into this group.

Shalom.

I see you have have not answered my question of 'Have you read Ellen White" For me its no issue but your lack of response on this does tell me you haven't read her. Opinions that have been gleaned from others are hardly the way of accuracy. You can draw your own conclusion of what having opinions on authors that haven't been read means.