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Featured The Torah Has Not Been Abolished

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by cgneustar, Jun 11, 2019.

  1. cgneustar

    cgneustar Member

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    I recently published a bible study on why the Torah of Moses has not been abolished, why it is still necessary, what the Messiah meant when he said "I came to fulfill the Torah", why the Torah will vanish away once this heaven and earth vanishes away, and finally, if indeed the Torah is still binding, why circumcision of the flesh is no longer required, along with observing the appointed times and Shabbaths of the Torah. The Torah Has Not Been Abolished | Wisdom of God
     
  2. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    first thanks for the topic, one question, are you under the Torah/Law yes or no?

    PICJAC.
     
  3. cgneustar

    cgneustar Member

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    If you are under airflow, then you are not under Torah, because the airflow of God frees a man from sin causing him never to sin again, which is why a man under airflow is no longer under Torah, because a Torah that reveals what is sin no longer has any hold on someone who has been freed from sin.
     
  4. prism

    prism Blood-Soaked

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    Actually, we are freed from sin by the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ...

    Romans 6:6-7 KJVS
    [6] Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin. [7] For he that is dead is freed from sin.

    And we are not under the law because through Christ's death we died to the law...

    Romans 7:4 KJVS
    [4] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

    Yet as reborn Christians the law is written on our hearts. Ezek 36:26,

    Hebrews 10:16 KJVS
    [16] This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;

    And even Gentile Christians receive that part of the blessings of Israel.
     
  5. cgneustar

    cgneustar Member

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    Do you not understand that the airflow of God is sent because of the sacrifice of the Messiah? If the Messiah had not been sacrificed, the airflow of God would not have been sent to free a man from sin based on the new covenant of the Messiah that was established by his death, which perfects a man through his blood, which the blood of animals was not able to do before that was the basis of the old covenant. In trying to find any way to contradict what I am saying, you show yourself to lack understanding. In all, if you still sin you are still under Torah, but if you have been freed from sin and caused to no longer sin, then you are no longer under the Torah of sin and death. Yet even then, when you do become freed from sin, you still end up obeying Torah. The Torah is never discarded, whether you are under Torah or under airflow.
     
  6. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    Correct! It was fulfilled/completed/finished in and through Jesus, being this:
    The Law (Torah) is NOT a requirement for the GIFT of God's Salvation!!
     
  7. cgneustar

    cgneustar Member

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    The Torah has not been entirely fulfilled, hence "UNTIL heaven and earth vanishes away, not one jot or one tittle will pass away from the Torah UNTIL ALL IS FULFILLED". The autumn appointed times of the Torah have not yet been fulfilled, which is why the second coming of the Messiah is associated with the sound of trumpets, for he comes to fulfill the appointed time of the trumpets of the Torah. And his 1,000 year rulership fulfills the Shabbath of the Torah. That is why, "UNTIL heaven and earth vanishes away, not one jot or one tittle will pass away from the Torah UNTIL ALL IS FULFILLED". Understand and stop jumping for joy at thought that the Torah has been discarded, for it is lawlessness.
     
  8. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    Its NOT about the Law, but rather HIS Grace of forgiveness, without the Law being necessary as part of it.
    In fact, Paul says in Gal. 5[4] [the sacrifice of] Christ is become of no effect unto you,
    whosoever of you are justified by the law;
    ye are fallen from grace.
     
  9. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member

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    Who said it has been abolished...the 1st 5 books of the OT (also known as the Law of Moses) is where these books came from...and are also what Jesus is referring to when He says we are no longer under the law....or when He said He did not come to do away with the law but to fulfill it.
     
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  10. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    And you don't hear the TWO perspectives in those words??
    .
    Our thoughts vs. His Thoughts! Isa. 55:8-9
    1. Our thoughts/perspective:
    "UNTIL heaven and earth vanishes away, not one jot or one tittle will pass away from the Torah UNTIL ALL IS FULFILLED".
    > Immediately, our minds rush off to the future, of when "heaven and earth vanishes away", causing US, by our own thoughts, to conclude, THAT IS WHEN the Law will be fulfilled!
    .
    And you did not conclude that??
    You most surely did, by saying: "The Torah has not been entirely fulfilled."
    Which means that your mind was/is looking futuristically, and NOT WHEN Jesus spoke it.
    .
    2. His Thoughts/Perspective:
    Jesus said, that He didn't come to abolish the Law, but rather to fulfill the Law.
    .

    Therefore, the fulfilling/completion/finishing of the Law, was accomplished by Him, at His first appearing, and not when "heaven and earth vanishes away".
    However, WHEN "heaven and earth do vanish away", the Law, having been already fulfilled/completed finished in Jesus' first appearance, THEN shall the Law no longer exist, be abolished.
     
  11. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    In case you didn't notice, I provided Isa. 55:8-9 as a reference for the above.
    Are you thinking with your mind, or with the mind of Christ, which is the Gift of The Person of His Holy Spirit, deposited within you, in the day that you believed in Jesus as your Messiah/Savior.
     
  12. cgneustar

    cgneustar Member

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    This is a lie, for the autumn appointed times of the Torah were not fulfilled in his first coming, which is why he comes with the sound of trumpets, to fulfill the appointed time of the trumpets of the Torah. Why is this so difficult to understand? Because you people are eager to discard the Torah, because you hate it.
     
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  13. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    You would like it to be a lie, because you do understand what I said.

    Do you blame the Apostle Paul in Gal. 5[4] Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
     
  14. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member

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    :rolleyes: You have issues with people not agreeing with your beliefs....are you able to present your theology (backing it up with scripture) and accept that not everyone will believe it or understand it? This forum is made up of members from many different doctrines of faith and how they believe. Don't post a thread on a topic you believe in and expect everyone to agree with it.
     
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  15. cgneustar

    cgneustar Member

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    Justification by obedience to the Torah alone is useless if you have no belief in Yeshuah, both are required, yet unlike the Pharisees, who were obedient to the Torah, yet lacked belief in Yeshuah, you people are the other extreme, you have belief in Yeshuah, yet you refuse to obey the Torah, which is lawlessness, and because of this is why your condemnation will be worse than that of the Jews who believe as the Pharisees did, because they will merely be cast out of Jerusalem and trampled, whereas you people will endure the rage of God with seven plagues after they are trampled, and then be thrown into hot lava after you suffer through the full cup of the wrath of God, because of your lawlessness that masquerades under the belief you claim to have.
     
  16. cgneustar

    cgneustar Member

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    Were the apostles not persecuted and matyred because of what they taught, including the Messiah himself? So why should it come as a shock that I would not also be rejected by you people for telling you the truth that you do not want to hear? As such, I am not on here to become popular among you people, otherwise I would be teaching sweet things like your pastors do. I am here to teach the truth knowing full well that most of you will reject it, in hopes that perhaps one or two of you will listen, and make my time on here worth it for the sake of the one or two.
     
  17. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Correct. The Torah has not been abolished. But the New Covenant has superseded and replaced the Old Covenant (which is within the Torah).

    At the same time, the entire Bible from Genesis to Revelation is given to Christians, and they dare not neglect the first five books in the Bible
    (2 Tim 3:15-17).

    Indeed, some Jews have discovered that there is a Bible Code hidden within the Hebrew Torah, and they have made a credible case for that.
    '"An Israeli mathematician has discovered a hidden code in the Bible that appears to reveal the details of events that took place thousands of years after the Bible was written," my letter to Rabin stated...'
    https://www.amazon.com/Bible-Code-Michael-Drosnin/dp/0684849739
     
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  18. Earburner

    Earburner Well-Known Member

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    Did Paul Lie in KJV- Gal. 5:4?
    I am assuming that you are well versed in Hebrew, so shall I assume also, that you are also in Greek?
    In the Strong's Concordance for the KJV, do you know the meaning of the word "effect" in Gal. 5:4?
     
  19. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member

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    The Lord Rebuke you! You come here with your religious propaganda that does not bring Glory to God but spews it's rage against those who defile your ignorance of the Truth and you want to speak a curse against them? There is no love of Jesus in you...your fruits have exposed your heart.
     
  20. cgneustar

    cgneustar Member

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    Paul did not lie in Galatians 5:4, for "works of Torah" are not the commands of "you shall not murder" and "you shall not steal" and "you shall wear fringes on the four corners of your garments", which are plain commands that are still required to be obeyed under the new covenant, "works of Torah" are resting on the Shabbath, new moons, food, drink, and other such commands that Paul in other epistles identifies as "shadows of the Torah", which are fulfilled differently under the new covenant of the Messiah, and also circumcision falls under "works of the Torah", because it was the sign of the old covenant that was replaced by the new covenant. The apostles are very specific on which commands of the Torah are no longer required to be kept under the new covenant, whereas all other commands are still binding, hence "I did not come to abolish the Torah". Yet rather than understand this, you people go off into complete lawlessness, discarding the entire Torah.
     
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