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The Truth About Hell

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by Christian Mystic, Mar 2, 2009.

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  1. Christian Mystic

    Christian Mystic New Member

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    Many Christians believe in a never ending place of torture and torment known as Hell. However, I believe that the Lord has shown me that this is not so. God is a loving Creator who will reconcile all mankind to himself, entirely by the blood of Jesus Christ. Jesus didn't die for a select few...Jesus died for all of mankind satisfying God's Holy judgment. Hell, the Lake of Fire, was created for the devil and his angels...not mankind. Those who do not accept the Gospel will experience the Lake of Fire, however in the dateless eternity all souls will eventually be saved, for even the fires of Hell shall purify the souls of the wicked and unbelieving, causing every knee to bow and every tongue to confess that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father. The Lake of Fire is the Second Death. Christians die this "second death" when we repent...the wicked will die this second death as they are punished for their sins in the Lake of Fire. Hell's purpose is to purify and bring all souls into subjection to God's authority. Eventually all of mankind will stand before God worshiping and adoring him. However, the only escape from this fearsome judgment is the cross of Christ. You can bow before the cross now and be forgiven of your sins...or you can refuse and be punished for your sins in Hell's flame. Either way...you will ultimately bow and acknowledge Christ as Lord. The choice is yours.Here are the biblical texts through which God has revealed this to me....
    But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. (I Cor. 15:20-26) For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven. (Col. 1:15-20)For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of believers. (1 Tim. 4:10) And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins; and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world. (1 John 2:2) But the free gift is not like the transgression. For if by the transgression of the one the many died, much more did the grace of God and the gift by the grace of the one Man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many. The gift is not like that which came through the one who sinned; for on the one hand the judgment arose from one transgression resulting in condemnation, but on the other hand the free gift arose from many transgressions resulting in justification. For if by the transgression of the one, death reigned through the one, much more those who receive the abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness will reign in life through the One, Jesus Christ. So then as through one transgression there resulted condemnation to all men, even so through one act of righteousness there resulted justification of life to all men. For as through the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners, even so through the obedience of the One the many will be made righteous. The Law came in so that the transgression would increase; but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Romans 5:15-21) Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth; For I am God, and there is no other. " I have sworn by Myself, The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness And will not turn back, That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance. "They will say of Me, 'Only in the LORD are righteousness and strength.' Men will come to Him, And all who were angry at Him will be put to shame. "In the LORD all the offspring of Israel Will be justified and will glory. (Isaiah 45:22-25) ...being found in human form he humbled himself and became obedient unto death, even death on a cross. Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name which is above every name, that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. (Phil. 2:8-11.)In all wisdom and insight He made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His kind intention which He purposed in Him with a view to an administration suitable to the fulness of the times, that is, the summing up of all things in Christ, things in the heavens and things upon the earth (Ephesians 1:8b-10) For God has shut up all in disobedience so that He may show mercy to all. (Romans 11:32) He spoke another parable to them, "The kingdom of heaven is like leaven, which a woman took and hid in three pecks of flour until it was all leavened." (Matt. 13:33) ​
    While many may choose to continue believing in a never ending Hell of torments...the good news is that our God is just and holy. He will adequately punish evil and reconcile all souls to himself through the blood of Jesus Christ.
     
  2. Aquila

    Aquila New Member

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    I believe I've had this discussion on this forum a while back. I'm suprised no one has responded to you.
     
  3. tim_from_pa

    tim_from_pa New Member

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    QUOTE (Christian Mystic @ Mar 2 2009, 09:43 PM)
    Many Christians believe in a never ending place of torture and torment known as Hell. However, I believe that the Lord has shown me that this is not so.
    I hope for the sake of all humanity that you are correct. You quote the same verses as E. Raymond Capt did who embraces the same doctrines. As much as I love his archaeological work, I had to throw out his theological ones relating to this subject. As many verses as you can find regarding universal salvation, I can find just as many regarding "eternal punishment" and "everlasting contempt". I think the issue here is the context of "all" that you have in the verses, for the bible cannot teach universal salvation and then turn around and say "everlasting contempt" on the other hand. These are the types of contradictions that skeptics have a field day with that "proves" the bible wrong. No, I think what the problem is happens to be the interpretation of it.I won't tell you what to believe, but just merely wanted to point it out. This is why I tend to steer away from controversial doctrines these days (at least on this board) about creation, end times, fundamental nature of sin and man, raptures and so forth. I rather stick with the historical stuff like Capt did about the lost tribes of Israel (which is basically genealogy), or maybe the arcane stuff like UFO's. It does not have as much to do with the spiritual relationship between God and man.
     
  4. shmity72

    shmity72 New Member

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    hi,I don't think there's a fire and brimstone type a hell either...yet, when it says in revelations that the 'book of Life' will be opened...i do believe at that time we shall be judged according to our behavior and hearts. also i think that the book of Life will be a sorta record of things that have transpired so that if you were a bad guy~ you'd be racked with that on your concience for eternity.my two cents.~shmity72
     
  5. Christian Mystic

    Christian Mystic New Member

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    QUOTE (tim_from_pa @ Mar 6 2009, 07:18 AM)
    I hope for the sake of all humanity that you are correct. You quote the same verses as E. Raymond Capt did who embraces the same doctrines. As much as I love his archaeological work, I had to throw out his theological ones relating to this subject. As many verses as you can find regarding universal salvation, I can find just as many regarding "eternal punishment" and "everlasting contempt". I think the issue here is the context of "all" that you have in the verses, for the bible cannot teach universal salvation and then turn around and say "everlasting contempt" on the other hand. These are the types of contradictions that skeptics have a field day with that "proves" the bible wrong. No, I think what the problem is happens to be the interpretation of it.I won't tell you what to believe, but just merely wanted to point it out. This is why I tend to steer away from controversial doctrines these days (at least on this board) about creation, end times, fundamental nature of sin and man, raptures and so forth. I rather stick with the historical stuff like Capt did about the lost tribes of Israel (which is basically genealogy), or maybe the arcane stuff like UFO's. It does not have as much to do with the spiritual relationship between God and man.
    I think we have to be balanced in our approach to Scripture. I believe that we have to interpret Scripture in light of what we know about God. God is fearsome in his judgment, but yet he is also loving, kind, compassionate, and merciful. If Christ came to save the world and the majority is lost, it could be said that Christ failed. I don’t doubt that the majority of mankind will suffer punishment from God. I just doubt that God will “burn” them forever in Hell. I believe that eventually all human beings will be reconciled to God. Jesus came to baptize with the Holy Ghost and with fire. All will be baptized…we choose the baptism we are baptized with, that found in the Gospel or God’s judgment. When it comes down to terms like “eternal contempt” and “everlasting punishment” I think we have a tendency to look at the words the way our Western culture looks at words. We see them as solid and fixed in their definitions, but that wasn’t so in the Eastern mind. For example the word translated eternal is the Greek word “aiónios” meaning, “eternal”, “age long”, “age enduring”, etc. Elsewhere in the Bible the hills are referred to as being “everlasting” (aiónios) meaning that they are “age enduring”, existing throughout history having an unknown and perhaps unknowable end. Yet we know that these hills aren’t “everlasting” in the strictest sense of the word. Also in the Greek mind the term “aiónios” is an adjective that can describe the effect of a temporary thing. For example, in Jude 4, we see that Sodom and Gomorrah serve as an example having suffered “eternal fire”. If we were to take the strictest meaning of these words we’d have to ask ourselves why these cities are not still burning today if they were punished with “eternal fire”, for wouldn’t these cities be burning forever? You see the fire was only temporary, yet it’s effects were eternal. The cities were eternally destroyed. If one undergoes “eternal” or “everlasting” (aiónios) punishment, does the punishment itself have to continue forever? No. It could very well mean that the punishment is of such fearsome nature that its results are eternal, eternally correcting the soul. Everlasting contempt could be speaking of existing forever, knowing that one never lived up to the full potential of their being, fulfilled their God given destiny, never experiencing the fullness of the glory that would have awaited them had they obeyed God. The concept of an eternal result from a temporary punishment is also important for understanding the term “punishment” as used by Jesus in Matthew 25:46. The term “punishment” here is “kolasis” meaning “correction”, not in the sense of torture or punitive torment, but in the sense of chastisement meant to bring to correct standing. For example, in other ancient Greek literature we see the word “kolasis” used in reference to a farmer’s pruning of a vine or bush. We know that the pruning (“punishment” or “kolasis”) inflicted upon the vine is meant to make the vine grow correctly, not to destroy or harm the vine. This may be an outdated example, but picture with me a young man who steals from the neighbors and is caught; so the father turns to punish the boy with a switch. The father doesn’t tie the boy up beating him with a switch all day long, every day, for the rest of his life. No, the Father inflicts such a punishment as to never be forgotten, eternally correcting the child. The punishment is intended to bring an eternal correction to the child so that the child doesn’t steal again. My grandfather used to say, “I’ll never forget my father’s switch.” It served as an eternal punishment though it only lasted a moment in time. M I believe in Hell. I believe that a soul’s punishment in Hell is of such a fearsome nature that it is an eternal punishment, not in the sense that it lasts forever, but in the sense that it serves as an eternal correction upon all souls who refused to obey the Gospel. Only after this punishment (kolasis) can a soul be reconciled to God. If you do not wish to experience this horror, there is a way out…the cross of Christ. Our God is love and doesn’t rejoice in inflicting pain on the wicked, . However he has no other option if the wicked do not subject themselves to him in repentance now.
     
  6. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    QUOTE (Christian Mystic @ Mar 10 2009, 11:01 AM)
    QUOTE (tim_from_pa @ Mar 6 2009, 06:18 AM)
    I hope for the sake of all humanity that you are correct. You quote the same verses as E. Raymond Capt did who embraces the same doctrines. As much as I love his archaeological work, I had to throw out his theological ones relating to this subject. As many verses as you can find regarding universal salvation, I can find just as many regarding "eternal punishment" and "everlasting contempt". I think the issue here is the context of "all" that you have in the verses, for the bible cannot teach universal salvation and then turn around and say "everlasting contempt" on the other hand. These are the types of contradictions that skeptics have a field day with that "proves" the bible wrong. No, I think what the problem is happens to be the interpretation of it.I won't tell you what to believe, but just merely wanted to point it out. This is why I tend to steer away from controversial doctrines these days (at least on this board) about creation, end times, fundamental nature of sin and man, raptures and so forth. I rather stick with the historical stuff like Capt did about the lost tribes of Israel (which is basically genealogy), or maybe the arcane stuff like UFO's. It does not have as much to do with the spiritual relationship between God and man.
    I think we have to be balanced in our approach to Scripture. I believe that we have to interpret Scripture in light of what we know about God. God is fearsome in his judgment, but yet he is also loving, kind, compassionate, and merciful. If Christ came to save the world and the majority is lost, it could be said that Christ failed. I don’t doubt that the majority of mankind will suffer punishment from God. I just doubt that God will “burn” them forever in Hell. I believe that eventually all human beings will be reconciled to God. Jesus came to baptize with the Holy Ghost and with fire. All will be baptized…we choose the baptism we are baptized with, that found in the Gospel or God’s judgment. When it comes down to terms like “eternal contempt” and “everlasting punishment” I think we have a tendency to look at the words the way our Western culture looks at words. We see them as solid and fixed in their definitions, but that wasn’t so in the Eastern mind. For example the word translated eternal is the Greek word “aiónios” meaning, “eternal”, “age long”, “age enduring”, etc. Elsewhere in the Bible the hills are referred to as being “everlasting” (aiónios) meaning that they are “age enduring”, existing throughout history having an unknown and perhaps unknowable end. Yet we know that these hills aren’t “everlasting” in the strictest sense of the word. Also in the Greek mind the term “aiónios” is an adjective that can describe the effect of a temporary thing. For example, in Jude 4, we see that Sodom and Gomorrah serve as an example having suffered “eternal fire”. If we were to take the strictest meaning of these words we’d have to ask ourselves why these cities are not still burning today if they were punished with “eternal fire”, for wouldn’t these cities be burning forever? You see the fire was only temporary, yet it’s effects were eternal. The cities were eternally destroyed. If one undergoes “eternal” or “everlasting” (aiónios) punishment, does the punishment itself have to continue forever? No. It could very well mean that the punishment is of such fearsome nature that its results are eternal, eternally correcting the soul. Everlasting contempt could be speaking of existing forever, knowing that one never lived up to the full potential of their being, fulfilled their God given destiny, never experiencing the fullness of the glory that would have awaited them had they obeyed God. The concept of an eternal result from a temporary punishment is also important for understanding the term “punishment” as used by Jesus in Matthew 25:46. The term “punishment” here is “kolasis” meaning “correction”, not in the sense of torture or punitive torment, but in the sense of chastisement meant to bring to correct standing. For example, in other ancient Greek literature we see the word “kolasis” used in reference to a farmer’s pruning of a vine or bush. We know that the pruning (“punishment” or “kolasis”) inflicted upon the vine is meant to make the vine grow correctly, not to destroy or harm the vine. This may be an outdated example, but picture with me a young man who steals from the neighbors and is caught; so the father turns to punish the boy with a switch. The father doesn’t tie the boy up beating him with a switch all day long, every day, for the rest of his life. No, the Father inflicts such a punishment as to never be forgotten, eternally correcting the child. The punishment is intended to bring an eternal correction to the child so that the child doesn’t steal again. My grandfather used to say, “I’ll never forget my father’s switch.” It served as an eternal punishment though it only lasted a moment in time. M I believe in Hell. I believe that a soul’s punishment in Hell is of such a fearsome nature that it is an eternal punishment, not in the sense that it lasts forever, but in the sense that it serves as an eternal correction upon all souls who refused to obey the Gospel. Only after this punishment (kolasis) can a soul be reconciled to God. If you do not wish to experience this horror, there is a way out…the cross of Christ. Our God is love and doesn’t rejoice in inflicting pain on the wicked, . However he has no other option if the wicked do not subject themselves to him in repentance now.Excuse me, I believe Tim that he himself doesn't believe that God will burn people in Hell forever. I remember somewhere in this forum he say he used to believe in "Burning in Hell forever" doctrine. It doesn't exist in God's Words as you said you don't believe in it.Hell is a ONE time punishment. It's called death. Hell is the Lake of Fire which is only made for Satan and his angels. It is not made for man, but they can follow Satan to go there if they chose. Hell is where our these wicked souls go. (Ezekiel 18:4, 18:20, Revelation 20:14) Once these souls go there, they die. They cease to exist.
     
  7. savedbygrace57

    savedbygrace57 New Member

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    QUOTE
    Many Christians believe in a never ending place of torture and torment known as Hell
    Jesus believed in it too..matt 23:33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?and its eternal damnation..mk 3:But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.Do you believe Jesus words or NO ?
     
  8. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    QUOTE (savedbygrace57 @ Mar 10 2009, 12:06 PM)
    QUOTE (Christian Mystic @ Mar 2 2009, 09:43 PM)
    Many Christians believe in a never ending place of torture and torment known as Hell. ...
    Jesus believed in it too..matt 23:33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?and its eternal damnation..mk 3:But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.Do you believe Jesus words or NO ?No Christ does not believe in the junk of men! This is men's doctrine. It's not God's Words... And you are obviously crazy to believe that God would contradict His Words to suit men's ideas. It's a quick ONE time punishment.My previous post refute your men's doctrine... but I completely doubt you can hear God yourself because you pick and choose which scriptures you want instead of embracing the entirety of God's Words.
     
  9. Christian Mystic

    Christian Mystic New Member

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    QUOTE (Jordan @ Mar 10 2009, 12:23 PM)
    Excuse me, I believe Tim that he himself doesn't believe that God will burn people in Hell forever. I remember somewhere in this forum he say he used to believe in "Burning in Hell forever" doctrine. It doesn't exist in God's Words as you said you don't believe in it.Hell is a ONE time punishment. It's called death. Hell is the Lake of Fire which is only made for Satan and his angels. It is not made for man, but they can follow Satan to go there if they chose. Hell is where our these wicked souls go. (Ezekiel 18:4, 18:20, Revelation 20:14) Once these souls go there, they die. They cease to exist.
    I believe that the doctrines of eternal torments and eternal destruction are twin sisters. Each depicts a God who looses 99% of his most prized possession, ultimately relegating the Gospel to defeat. Satan’s goal is to destroy mankind (however you wish to define this), if 99% are doomed to eternal torments alienated from God or eternal destruction…Satan wins. Both offer a defeatist Gospel and describe a God who looses and is vindictive against his creation, most of which never had a chance at even hearing the full message of salvation in Christ. However, what I believe the Lord has shown me is a truth that transcends the obvious flaws in both of these man made doctrines. God is loving but he is also just and will adequately and fearsomely punish and correct sinful souls. After all is said and done, while he majority will experience Hell, all will be reconciled to him through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. Christ died to save the world, and it is because of his blood that mankind can experience the Gospel’s power, even after they’ve paid the last penny and experienced the final stripe. Not even death separates us from the love of God, yes, even if we make our bed in Hell…he is there. Eventually all will stand before God worshipping their creator, confessing that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Mankind will not find his eternal destiny in Hell…Jesus died to prevent that. Hell (the lake of fire) was created for the Devil and his angels. These will find themselves confined in its flames for eternity. Some who have passed on have already finished their time in Hell and have been reconciled to God through the blood of Christ Jesus, the blood which never looses its power, even after death. The Gospel is victorious and Christ, the one who died for all of mankind, wins. Sin and Satan win NOTHING. That’s the glorious truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. All will bow in worship and adoration of their creator. The question is…will you bow now, escaping God’s judgment, or will it take God’s wrath upon your soul to bring you to confess him as Lord?
     
  10. tomwebster

    tomwebster New Member

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    QUOTE (Christian Mystic @ Mar 10 2009, 12:53 PM)
    ... Satan’s goal is to destroy mankind
    No, Satan's goal is to be worshipped as God. Satan has been defeated! He just doesn't realize it yet.
     
  11. Christian Mystic

    Christian Mystic New Member

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    QUOTE (tomwebster @ Mar 10 2009, 02:03 PM)
    No, Satan's goal is to be worshipped as God. Satan has been defeated! He just doesn't realize it yet.
    Satan desired God's worship when in Heaven. When he was cast from Heaven Satan realized that he would never receive worship as God. So now the enemy (Satan) has come to steal, kill, and destroy that which God cares about...mankind. Why? Because man is in the image of God...man is God's most precious creation, his children. It's Satan's goal to hurt God since Satan can't defeat him.If Satan successfully brings about 99% of mankind's eternal damnation or destruction through sin...Satan wins.
     
  12. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    QUOTE (Christian Mystic @ Mar 10 2009, 12:53 PM)
    QUOTE (Jordan @ Mar 10 2009, 11:23 AM)
    Excuse me, I believe Tim that he himself doesn't believe that God will burn people in Hell forever. I remember somewhere in this forum he say he used to believe in "Burning in Hell forever" doctrine. It doesn't exist in God's Words as you said you don't believe in it.Hell is a ONE time punishment. It's called death. Hell is the Lake of Fire which is only made for Satan and his angels. It is not made for man, but they can follow Satan to go there if they chose. Hell is where our these wicked souls go. (Ezekiel 18:4, 18:20, Revelation 20:14) Once these souls go there, they die. They cease to exist.
    I believe that the doctrines of eternal torments and eternal destruction are twin sisters. Each depicts a God who looses 99% of his most prized possession, ultimately relegating the Gospel to defeat. Satan’s goal is to destroy mankind (however you wish to define this), if 99% are doomed to eternal torments alienated from God or eternal destruction…Satan wins. Both offer a defeatist Gospel and describe a God who looses and is vindictive against his creation, most of which never had a chance at even hearing the full message of salvation in Christ. However, what I believe the Lord has shown me is a truth that transcends the obvious flaws in both of these man made doctrines. God is loving but he is also just and will adequately and fearsomely punish and correct sinful souls. After all is said and done, while he majority will experience Hell, all will be reconciled to him through the shed blood of Jesus Christ. Christ died to save the world, and it is because of his blood that mankind can experience the Gospel’s power, even after they’ve paid the last penny and experienced the final stripe. Not even death separates us from the love of God, yes, even if we make our bed in Hell…he is there. Eventually all will stand before God worshipping their creator, confessing that Jesus is Lord to the glory of God the Father. Mankind will not find his eternal destiny in Hell…Jesus died to prevent that. Hell (the lake of fire) was created for the Devil and his angels. These will find themselves confined in its flames for eternity. Some who have passed on have already finished their time in Hell and have been reconciled to God through the blood of Christ Jesus, the blood which never looses its power, even after death. The Gospel is victorious and Christ, the one who died for all of mankind, wins. Sin and Satan win NOTHING. That’s the glorious truth of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. All will bow in worship and adoration of their creator. The question is…will you bow now, escaping God’s judgment, or will it take God’s wrath upon your soul to bring you to confess him as Lord?God has one doctrine. He doesn't change His Words or doctrine at all. If someone finds a contradiction in God's Words, it's their lack of understanding, because not every doctrine is of God... It's been shown clearly that is not.While yes, Christ died for the whole world... (John 4:42, I John 4:14, I Timothy 4:10) but it's clear that He can't save any person that clearly chose to be with Satan and his angels, because we have free will. (John 3:16, John 14:15) While yes, all people will see that Christ is Lord and will also confess that He is Lord as well... (Philippians 2:10-11) ... it doesn't mean that all of them will be with Christ though. Heck even Satan knows that Christ is Lord, but he is sentenced to die already. (Isaiah 14:12-16, Ezekiel 28:18, John 17:12)
     
  13. tomwebster

    tomwebster New Member

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    QUOTE (Christian Mystic @ Mar 10 2009, 01:09 PM)
    Satan desired God's worship when in Heaven. When he was cast from Heaven Satan realized that he would never receive worship as God. So now the enemy (Satan) has come to steal, kill, and destroy that which God cares about...mankind. Why? Because man is in the image of God...man is God's most precious creation, his children. It's Satan's goal to hurt God since Satan can't defeat him.If Satan successfully brings about 99% of mankind's eternal damnation or destruction through sin...Satan wins.
    No, Satan wanted the thrown. He wanted to sit on the Mercy Seat. That is why there was a war in the first earth age. He was defeated. He has all ready been condemned to perish, "burn up from the in-side," "turned to ashes," "be blotted out."
     
  14. Christian Mystic

    Christian Mystic New Member

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    QUOTE (tomwebster @ Mar 10 2009, 02:20 PM)
    No, Satan wanted the thrown. He wanted to sit on the Mercy Seat. That is why there was a war in the first earth age. He was defeated. He has all ready been condemned to perish, "burn up from the in-side," "turned to ashes," "be blotted out."
    So you're assuming he wanted the throne but didn't want worship??? lolQUOTE (savedbygrace57 @ Mar 10 2009, 01:06 PM)
    Jesus believed in it too..matt 23:33Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?and its eternal damnation..mk 3:But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation.Do you believe Jesus words or NO ?
    The Greek term for “eternal” and “everlasting” can mean “age enduring” or “throughout the age” indicating a time period of unknown duration, but not necessarily endless. It can also speak to the nature of a thing in that if it comes from God…it’s “eternal” even if it isn’t endless. For examples Sodom suffered an example of eternal fire…though the fires that destroyed Sodom aren’t burning today. The fire was “eternal” because it came from the hand of God.
     
  15. tomwebster

    tomwebster New Member

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    QUOTE (Christian Mystic @ Mar 10 2009, 02:33 PM)
    So you're assuming he wanted the throne but didn't want worship??? lol
    My first post to you stated that Satan wanted to be worshipped as God, did you forget what I said so soon. Lucifer, ie. Satan, and God were not the only beings in heaven at the time, there were a great many souls in heaven. Satan wanted the throne, he wanted to be king. He and his army fought God's army, and lost, therefore Satan his place as one of two protectors of the Mercy Seat. Read Ezekiel.
     
  16. Christian Mystic

    Christian Mystic New Member

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    QUOTE (tomwebster @ Mar 10 2009, 03:48 PM)
    My first post to you stated that Satan wanted to be worshipped as God, did you forget what I said so soon. Lucifer, ie. Satan, and God were not the only beings in heaven at the time, there were a great many souls in heaven. Satan wanted the throne, he wanted to be king. He and his army fought God's army, and lost, therefore Satan his place as one of two protectors of the Mercy Seat. Read Ezekiel.
    Go back and read the sequence of posts. Satan is out to destroy mankind's relationship with God...Satan isn't spreading Satanism...he's spreading false religions, lies, cults, and false doctrines. It's not about getting worship...it's a scortched earth police bent on destroying mankind. QUOTE (Jordan @ Mar 10 2009, 02:13 PM)
    God has one doctrine. He doesn't change His Words or doctrine at all. If someone finds a contradiction in God's Words, it's their lack of understanding, because not every doctrine is of God... It's been shown clearly that is not.
    No one is saying that God changes his doctrine. The doctrine of eternal torments was actually a minority position within the first 200 to 300 years of Christianity and was largely propagated by Augustine. The fundamental of eternal torments is of Medieval in origin QUOTE
    While yes, Christ died for the whole world... (John 4:42, I John 4:14, I Timothy 4:10) but it's clear that He can't save any person that clearly chose to be with Satan and his angels, because we have free will. (John 3:16, John 14:15)
    I think that’s a rather simplistic statement. The vast majority of mankind hasn’t “chosen” to be with Satan and his angels. Most don’t believe the Gospel for reasons relating to logic or painful experiences with the church. Even more, especially in the far East, have never heard the Gospel message and belong to other religions. They never made a “choice”. For example, a missionary was railing about a 16 year old girl who died in India having never heard the Gospel. His angle was that she had gone to a burning Hell forever because no body took the Gospel to her family. Wait and take a deep breath and think about this…she never made a choice…she never knew. What kind of “loving God” would subject this 16 year old girl to eternal torments for rejecting something she never heard???Jesus addressed this…
    Luke 12:46-48 46The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.​
    You see, there are different degrees and duration of punishments for souls. Those who heard and rejected the gospel will be “beaten with many stripes” (please note Jesus doesn’t indicate that they will be scourged forever). Those who didn’t know will be “beaten with few stripes” (again, please note that Jesus doesn’t indicate that they will be scourged forever). In fact, Jesus also said this parable…
    Luke 12:58-59When thou goest with thine adversary to the magistrate, as thou art in the way, give diligence that thou mayest be delivered from him; lest he hale thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into prison. 59I tell thee, thou shalt not depart thence, till thou hast paid the very last mite.
    There is a price to be paid…once paid…one is reconciled to God. And even if one were to “choose to be with Satan”…God knows how to make the fires of Hell bring that soul to their knees pleading for salvation and peace with God. QUOTE
    While yes, all people will see that Christ is Lord and will also confess that He is Lord as well... (Philippians 2:10-11) ... it doesn't mean that all of them will be with Christ though. Heck even Satan knows that Christ is Lord, but he is sentenced to die already. (Isaiah 14:12-16, Ezekiel 28:18, John 17:12)
    These verses mean what they say…
    First Corinthians 15:22.For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. Romans 5:18. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. Ephesians 1: 9-11. Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: Colossians 1: 16 and 20. For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. I John 2:2. And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
    We know that most will not be saved from Hell…but Hell’s purpose is to bring all souls into subjection to God. In the end all are reconciled.
     
  17. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    QUOTE (Christian Mystic @ Mar 10 2009, 03:02 PM)
    QUOTE (tomwebster @ Mar 10 2009, 02:48 PM)
    My first post to you stated that Satan wanted to be worshipped as God, did you forget what I said so soon. Lucifer, ie. Satan, and God were not the only beings in heaven at the time, there were a great many souls in heaven. Satan wanted the throne, he wanted to be king. He and his army fought God's army, and lost, therefore Satan his place as one of two protectors of the Mercy Seat. Read Ezekiel.
    Go back and read the sequence of posts. Satan is out to destroy mankind's relationship with God...Satan isn't spreading Satanism...he's spreading false religions, lies, cults, and false doctrines. It's not about getting worship...it's a scortched earth police bent on destroying mankind. QUOTE (Jordan @ Mar 10 2009, 01:13 PM)
    God has one doctrine. He doesn't change His Words or doctrine at all. If someone finds a contradiction in God's Words, it's their lack of understanding, because not every doctrine is of God... It's been shown clearly that is not. ...
    No one is saying that God changes his doctrine. The doctrine of eternal torments was actually a minority position within the first 200 to 300 years of Christianity and was largely propagated by Augustine. The fundamental of eternal torments is of Medieval in origin QUOTE (Jordan @ Mar 10 2009, 01:13 PM)
    ... While yes, Christ died for the whole world... (John 4:42, I John 4:14, I Timothy 4:10) but it's clear that He can't save any person that clearly chose to be with Satan and his angels, because we have free will. (John 3:16, John 14:15) ...
    I think that’s a rather simplistic statement. The vast majority of mankind hasn’t “chosen” to be with Satan and his angels. Most don’t believe the Gospel for reasons relating to logic or painful experiences with the church. Even more, especially in the far East, have never heard the Gospel message and belong to other religions. They never made a “choice”. For example, a missionary was railing about a 16 year old girl who died in India having never heard the Gospel. His angle was that she had gone to a burning Hell forever because no body took the Gospel to her family. Wait and take a deep breath and think about this…she never made a choice…she never knew. What kind of “loving God” would subject this 16 year old girl to eternal torments for rejecting something she never heard???Jesus addressed this…
    Luke 12:46-48 46The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. 47And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. 48But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.​
    You see, there are different degrees and duration of punishments for souls. Those who heard and rejected the gospel will be “beaten with many stripes” (please note Jesus doesn’t indicate that they will be scourged forever). Those who didn’t know will be “beaten with few stripes” (again, please note that Jesus doesn’t indicate that they will be scourged forever). In fact, Jesus also said this parable…
    Luke 12:58-59When thou goest with thine adversary to the magistrate, as thou art in the way, give diligence that thou mayest be delivered from him; lest he hale thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and the officer cast thee into prison. 59I tell thee, thou shalt not depart thence, till thou hast paid the very last mite.
    There is a price to be paid…once paid…one is reconciled to God. And even if one were to “choose to be with Satan”…God knows how to make the fires of Hell bring that soul to their knees pleading for salvation and peace with God. QUOTE (Jordan @ Mar 10 2009, 01:13 PM)
    While yes, all people will see that Christ is Lord and will also confess that He is Lord as well... (Philippians 2:10-11) ... it doesn't mean that all of them will be with Christ though. Heck even Satan knows that Christ is Lord, but he is sentenced to die already. (Isaiah 14:12-16, Ezekiel 28:18, John 17:12)
    These verses mean what they say…
    First Corinthians 15:22.For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. Romans 5:18. Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. Ephesians 1: 9-11. Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will: Colossians 1: 16 and 20. For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. I John 2:2. And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
    We know that most will not be saved from Hell…but Hell’s purpose is to bring all souls into subjection to God. In the end all are reconciled.Firstly, Christianity is Judaism. Secondly it may be propagated by Augustine, but I don't trust him one bit... If I remember correctly... He wanted so called "Christianity" reign supreme and put the blame on all Jews... he is wrong and stupid.In Adam, we all die... Yes, because he is the first human that sinned. Satan sinned ages ago before Adam did... like some many, many and many years ago. Hence the reason Satan is judged by God and sentence to death like I quoted in my previous posts. (Isaiah 14:15, Ezekiel 28:18, John 17:12) ...Satan is the one to cause the temptation to Adam to sin.While yes, they are some people who has not heard the gospel was given a choice like babies who died, because of abortion or other reasons. But it doesn't change the fact that our Father gave us Free Will to decide to choose Christ or Satan (John 3:16, John 14:15)Besides Hell doesn't exist yet. (referring to Lake of Fire) All people died, whether past, present and then later future goes back to our loving Father. (Ecclesiastes 12:7) Everybody will be given a choice anyway, that's why we have the Millennium Reign, which comes at the seventh trump, when Christ...In Luke 16:19-31, there is a gulf (sides) in Heaven... All souls goes back to God regardless.Anyway... I'm starting to wonder if you are reading Tom's and mine post correctly...
     
  18. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    There is no burning forever as Jordan has said its a lie of Men who wrongly believed they had to use fear to control men before they would believe in God This guy is little radical ..but he is right burning in hell forever is not a Biblical concept it is contrary to God Even the original lanuage denote an age not forever You guys can continue this age old argument for ever but the truth is there is no burning in Hell forever My belief about "Eternal Hell" by Pastor Harry, I always had a problem with the "Hell For Ever" Doctrine as it seems so inconsistent with a Loving God. Why would a GOD of Love and Mercy allow people to literally burn forever in extreme torment? This is not only inhuman it would be more what we expect from a Book of Satan and how the Devil treats those who reject him. It seems contradictory, almost schziophrenic to tell a person, "God loves you wants to bring you to Heaven. But if you reject Him, He will burn you in Hell Fire for all of eternity. But He loves you." True, YHWH GOD gave mankind free will and we have the right and ability to choose God's Savior or reject Him. We also have the free will to do good to our fellow man or prey upon others for our own pleasure and greed. Ultimately we do choose our destiny be it Heaven or Hell. But since none of us asked to be born into this world and face the choice of Heaven or Hell, it seems Merciless, Brutal and Sadistic of God to condemn people (who reject Salvation) TO BURN IN TORMENT FOR ALL OF ETERNITY! At this point, Baptists and other Fundamentalists (who seem to love the Doctrine of "Eternal Hell Fire and Torment) will scream "God doesn't send people to hell. People send themselves there." True, God does not send people to Hell. People do self-condemn themselves to Hell but it is YHWH GOD who set up this punishment and not man or unseen forces beyond the control of God. ETERNAL TORMENT AND BURNING IN A HELL FOREVER IS "OVERKILL" "Hell For Ever" is a case where The Punishment Exceeds The Crime and seems to violate the nature of God, which is Love and Mercy. This would be like the Penalty for stealing a loaf of bread is being beaten half to death or having your hand cut off (as literally taught in The Koran). I do not believe The Bible teaches that Hell Is Forever. I believe that Hell will last for a space of time (1000 years) and then be no more, that Hell and those in it will be "disintegrated" in an act of YHWH GOD'S Ultimate Mercy. Now I will show you why I do not believe HELL IS FOREVER and you can decide for yourself what is true. To start our search for The Truth, lets start with John:3:16 which is the heart and crux of The Gospel. (we will explore six, key verses of Scripture dealing with Heaven and Hell). VERSE ONE "FOR GOD SO LOVED THE WORLD HE GAVE HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON, THAT WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM SHALL NOT PERISH BUT HAVE EVERLASTING LIFE. "Perish or everlasting life". . . I don't see JESUS saying, "Burning in Hell For Ever vs Everlasting Life, do you? "Perish" seems to mean destruction and the word perish in Greek is Apollymi and means total destruction. VERSE TWO "DO NOT FEAR THOSE WHO CAN ONLY KILL THE BODY BUT FEAR GOD WHO CAN DESTROY YOUR BODY AND SOUL IN HELL." (Matt:10:28). This verse spoken by JESUS seems to clarify JN:3:16 as to what it means to "perish". We are told that in Hell, GOD can destroy both your body and soul. People who are cast into Hell (Mt:10:28) are not burning for all of eternity. There comes an end to their torment, A Finality, the destruction of both body and soul in hell. VERSE THREE 9 "And the third angel followed saying with a loud voice, "If any man worships The Beast and his Image and receives his mark in his forehead or right hand, 10 "The same shall drink of the Wrath of God, poured out upon the world, and he shall be Tormented with fire and brim- stone (hell) in the presence of the holy angels and The Lamb 11 "and the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever and they shall have No rest day or night, who worships The Beast and receives the Mark of his name." (Rev:14:9-11) During The Tribulation, God will send His Angels to give mankind the Final Warning, that "all who take the mark of The Beast (and worship Satan) will be tormented in Hell, and the smoke of their toment acsendeth up for ever and ever and they shall have no rest day or night." This verse seems to say that "HELL IS FOREVER". But what about the other two Gospel verses we just read? What about Jn:3:16 and Matt:10:28 where Jesus said, "Our soul and body can be destroyed (perish) in Hell?" Does The Bible contradict itself? Not at all because we still have eight chapters left in Revelation. VERSE FOUR 13 "And the sea gave up the dead which were in them; and death and Hell delivered up the dead which were in them and they were judged according to their works." 14 "And death and Hell were Cast into the Lake of fire. This is the Second Death. 15"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." (Rev:20:14-15). "And Death and Hell will deliver up their dead". The Bible is clear as day! People will not burn in Hell For Ever, as Billy Graham and The Baptists,Catholics and others so boldy proclaim. I believe that Hell is in the center of the earth because the center of the earth is a burning fiery "hell". This is why "Hell is down" and why we point up for Heaven as we gaze beyond the stars. Then "Death and Hell were cast into the Lake of Fire" = which is called The "Second Death". I believe this represents The COMPLETE DESTRUCTION OF A PERSON- BODY-SOUL- SPIRIT = TOTAL DISINTEGRATION. VERSE SIX And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away And the sea was no more. (Rev:21:1) Now we see the "heavens and earth" itself (along with Death and Hell) cast into the lake of Fire which can either be The Sun or a dimensional lake of Fire, hotter than anything imaginable. Hell Is Not Forever After All. Look at that! People suffer for their sins in this subterranean Place of Darkness and Flames, then they are cast into The LAKE OF FIRE = The Second Death and are no more. What about Rev:14 that says "Those who take the mark of The Beast shall be tormented forever, night and day?" 1- well night and day is relative as it involves time and space. If God destroys the "heavens and earth" (the universe) then time, night and day, will cease to exist. 2- The smoke of their torment, the literal smoke and screams of those who suffer and burn in HELL will echo thruout the universe for all eternity or until again, the universe is destroyed. This concept of SOUL DISINTEGRATION is consistent with YHWH GOD'S nature of Love and Mercy. JESUS taught us, Blessed are the merciful for you shall obtain mercy." Should not the Mercy of God far exceed our own? TOTAL SOUL DISINTEGRATION has a sad note, that many people are so proud and wicked, they must be DISINTEGRATED, just as if they never even existed. Yet God still uses the wicked to work good, so their existence upon earth had some value after all. God used Hitler and his Nazi's to bring about The Restoration of Israel as a nation, the Jewish homeland. (14 May 1948). In my own life, God allowed thieves to steal my hemi race engine. This was so I would come to realize there is far more to life than racing a car around a track and set my life path of Seeking GOD and His Will for my life. You can probably look back in your own life and see how God used evil (people who choose to do harm) to help steer you towards Salvation. Final Note: In Rev:20:13, We again see those in Hell (center of earth) delivered up from Hell and stand before God where as "their works in life are judged". I believe here too, YHWH GOD will give those souls (who suffered in hell's torment for 1000 years) A LAST CHANCE to repent and make Heaven. YET AS UNBELIEVABLE AS IT SOUNDS, NONE WILL TAKE THIS OFFER! THEY WILL RATHER BE DISINTERGRATED THAN TO SERVE GOD IN HEAVEN.
     
  19. Christian Mystic

    Christian Mystic New Member

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    The idea of soul disintegration is just as horrendous as eternal torment in flames. Each doctrine presents a God who is supposedly "loving" who tells mankind that if they don't obey the Gospel they will BURN FOREVER or if they don't obey the Gospel they will be DESTROYED FOREVER. What's the difference between father taking his child and torturing him or disintegrating him? Both are horrendous acts....especially if one is capable of saving that child. Here's the truth...Mankind deserves eternal separation from God in torments or destruction. But we serve an awesome and powerful God who sent his Son to die that ALL of mankind might be saved. Christ didn't just die for believers, Jesus also died for ALL sinners and unbelievers. Christ's blood is VICTORIOUS over all sin and rebellion. When a sinner dies that sinner's soul is confined in Hell (hades) where they suffer torments until their final judgment. At the final judgment they face their eternal condemnation...not eternal in that it is unending...but eternal in that this condemnation will forever mark and shape his soul. That sinner's soul will then endure the horrors of Hell (the lake of fire's torments). When that soul has been adequately both punished and their sinful will broken...they will be left desiring one thing and one thing only...fellowship with God and they will be willing to obey God's Holy Word. They are purified. The City, the New Jerusalem, has gates that are never closed, allowing all who are reconciled to enter therein...and each man, in his own order is added to the book of life. They then pass through the City's gates and the tree of life serves as their healing as they are restored to wholeness. There they will bow, confessing Christ as savior, and worship him to the glory of God the Father. They will know that it is only because of his blood that they are spared never the never ending torments of the lake of fire, which was made specifically for the Devil and his angels. These souls will then find their place in eternity where they will develop into all that God purposed for them to be. The time it takes for each soul to be reconciled is unknown and unknowable. It may be a period immeasurable by human means or it may be a short period (some conservative forms of Judaism taught that a soul was adequately punished after 11 years). When a Christian dies their soul is immediately ushered into the presence of God where they await their final judgment. Upon their final judgment they are assigned their initial places and duties in eternity where they will serve God and grow into all that God has purposed for them. The only way to be "saved' and escape the fires of Hell is through Christ Jesus. However, after all is said and done ALL human souls will eventually be reconciled to God. Jesus will not loose a single soul.
    John 12:32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth (crucified), will draw ALL men unto me.​
    1 Tim. 4:10For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of ALL men, especially of believers. ​
    I Cor. 15:20-26But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ ALL will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. ​
    Col. 1:15-20For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile ALL things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.​
     
  20. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    QUOTE (Christian Mystic @ Mar 10 2009, 09:07 PM)
    The idea of soul disintegration is just as horrendous as eternal torment in flames. Each doctrine presents a God who is supposedly "loving" who tells mankind that if they don't obey the Gospel they will BURN FOREVER or if they don't obey the Gospel they will be DESTROYED FOREVER. What's the difference between father taking his child and torturing him or disintegrating him? Both are horrendous acts....especially if one is capable of saving that child. Here's the truth...Mankind deserves eternal separation from God in torments or destruction. But we serve an awesome and powerful God who sent his Son to die that ALL of mankind might be saved. Christ didn't just die for believers, Jesus also died for ALL sinners and unbelievers. Christ's blood is VICTORIOUS over all sin and rebellion. When a sinner dies that sinner's soul is confined in Hell (hades) where they suffer torments until their final judgment. At the final judgment they face their eternal condemnation...not eternal in that it is unending...but eternal in that this condemnation will forever mark and shape his soul. That sinner's soul will then endure the horrors of Hell (the lake of fire's torments). When that soul has been adequately both punished and their sinful will broken...they will be left desiring one thing and one thing only...fellowship with God and they will be willing to obey God's Holy Word. They are purified. The City, the New Jerusalem, has gates that are never closed, allowing all who are reconciled to enter therein...and each man, in his own order is added to the book of life. They then pass through the City's gates and the tree of life serves as their healing as they are restored to wholeness. There they will bow, confessing Christ as savior, and worship him to the glory of God the Father. They will know that it is only because of his blood that they are spared never the never ending torments of the lake of fire, which was made specifically for the Devil and his angels. These souls will then find their place in eternity where they will develop into all that God purposed for them to be. The time it takes for each soul to be reconciled is unknown and unknowable. It may be a period immeasurable by human means or it may be a short period (some conservative forms of Judaism taught that a soul was adequately punished after 11 years). When a Christian dies their soul is immediately ushered into the presence of God where they await their final judgment. Upon their final judgment they are assigned their initial places and duties in eternity where they will serve God and grow into all that God has purposed for them. The only way to be "saved' and escape the fires of Hell is through Christ Jesus. However, after all is said and done ALL human souls will eventually be reconciled to God. Jesus will not loose a single soul.
    John 12:32And I, if I be lifted up from the earth (crucified), will draw ALL men unto me.​
    1 Tim. 4:10For it is for this we labor and strive, because we have fixed our hope on the living God, who is the Savior of ALL men, especially of believers. ​
    I Cor. 15:20-26But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep. For since by a man came death, by a man also came the resurrection of the dead. For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ ALL will be made alive. But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power. For He must reign until He has put all His enemies under His feet. The last enemy that will be abolished is death. ​
    Col. 1:15-20For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile ALL things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.​
    Just because God say He will draw all men... just because God says He will reconcile all things to Himself doesn't mean all are going to be saved. It doesn't mean they will follow God and serve Him. Again, yes Christ is the Saviour of the world, the Saviour of all men (John 4:42, I John 4:14, I Timothy 4:10) but it doesn't mean He doesn't give us Free Will to pick who we want to serve. (John 3:16, John 14:15) And there will also be Free Will in the Millennium Reign as well. After it's over it's Judgment Day.Revelation 20:11 - And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.Revelation 20:12 - And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.Revelation 20:13 - And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.Revelation 20:14 - And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.Revelation 20:15 - And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire....Ezekiel 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.Ezekiel 18:20 - The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
     
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