The Truth About The Rapture

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Xanderoc

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The Truth About The Rapture​
First I would start by saying there are many ways to prove the rapture theory is a spirit of error.I will start with the scriptures given to support the rapture. We need to clean up the confusion before we lay the ground work. Let’s start with the rapture and the scriptures they use to support the rapture. According to Charles C Ryrie, in the book “Basic Theology”, “the Greek word from which we take the term “rapture” comes from the Latin word rapturo. The Greek word is harpazo, which means to snatch or take away.



1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Caught up translated from Greek word harpazo, ; to seize (in various applications): - catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).

Acts 8:39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.

2 Cor.12: 2-4 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven. And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.

So this is it, since the Greek word harpazo was used to describe the man spoken about in 2 Cor. 12:2-4, which got caught up to the third heaven , they assume it means the same will occur in 1 Th. 4:17. Well the same Greek word harpazo was used in Acts 8:39; if we read Acts 8:39 Philip wasn’t taken to heaven. This is just one example of man interpreting God’s word in error.
Before we begin, let’s read what the Lord said through his prophet Amos. Amos 3:[sup]7[/sup]Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. Do we believe if God wanted us to know about a secret coming, He would have told the prophets about it first? That’s something to think about!!
Now let’s read what Jesus had to say about this. John 7: 33-36 [sup]33[/sup]Then said Jesus unto them, Yet a little while am I with you, and then I go unto him that sent me.[sup]34[/sup]Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come.[sup]35[/sup]Then said the Jews among themselves, Whither will he go, that we shall not find him? will he go unto the dispersed among the Gentiles, and teach the Gentiles?[sup]36[/sup]What manner of saying is this that he said, Ye shall seek me, and shall not find me: and where I am, thither ye cannot come? Jesus was saying here, when He goes to heaven they could not go!! Let’s see what else Jesus said. John 14:1-3 [sup]1[/sup]Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me. [sup]2[/sup]In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. [sup]3[/sup]And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also. Jesus clearly said He will come again. So where will Jesus be when he returns? Earth, or will he just take man back to heaven? Let’s let the scriptures speak for it. Jesus said in Rev. 22: [sup]12[/sup]And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.[sup]13[/sup]I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last. So when Jesus returns He will bring his reward with Him. Jesus said in John 7:34,36 where He was going they could not go. Jesus is not going to contradict Himself in John 14:1-3 He wasn’t saying He would take man back to heaven with Him. Jesus isn’t going back to Heaven when He returns. There is no scriptural evidence that support that. Jesus said, He will come, and His reward will be with Him.
Read 2 Tim. 4:1-5 [sup]1[/sup]I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;[sup]2[/sup]Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.[sup]3[/sup]For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;[sup]4[/sup]And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.[sup]5[/sup]But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry. Let me tell you people, that this time is now!!! People have turn away from the truth to believe in lies. They turn from Jesus truth about His return, and believe the fable of the rapture. They won’t listen to sound doctrine. Now let’s read for our selves what happens during Jesus return.
Let us begin where Jesus left. Acts 1:11-12 [sup]11[/sup]Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven. [sup]12[/sup]Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day's journey. Jesus will return back to earth the same way He left. Let’s go to Dan. 7:13-14[sup]13[/sup]I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.[sup]14[/sup]And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. Here we read, when Jesus will come with the clouds of heaven. Matthew 24:30 [sup]30[/sup]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. Again we read, Jesus coming in the clouds of heaven. This is the same time period we’re taking about here. Now before Jesus starts making His descent, there will be great Tribulation first. Matthew 24:21 [sup]21[/sup]For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. The old testament reads in Deut. 4:30-31 [sup]30[/sup]When thou art in tribulation, and all these things are come upon thee, even in the latter days, if thou turn to the LORD thy God, and shalt be obedient unto his voice; [sup]31[/sup](For the LORD thy God is a merciful God;) he will not forsake thee, neither destroy thee, nor forget the covenant of thy fathers which he sware unto them. Notice we see here, in the latter days there will be tribulation for Israel for not obeying the Lord’s commandments. Not only for Israel, but for the rest of the world as well. Matthew 24:29-31 [sup]29[/sup]Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:[sup]30[/sup]And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. [sup]31[/sup]And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Read this carefully; that immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sign of Jesus will appear in heaven. Again, AFTER THE TRIBULATION OF THOSE DAYS!!!!
Now we will read, 1Thess. 4:13-18 [sup]13[/sup]But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.[sup]14[/sup]For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.[sup]15[/sup]For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.[sup]16[/sup]For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:[sup]17[/sup]Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. So let’s take a close look at this scripture, and see if we can make sense out of it. With a shout and the trump of God, the dead will rise first, and then the living will be taken to meet the Lord in the air. The Lord is descending from where He was (heaven) to meet those that rose from the earth. What happen to those that rose from the earth to meet the Lord in the air? 1 Cor. 15:52 [sup]52[/sup]In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.Ok, right then at that time the dead, and the living that rose, will be changed.
So, where will they go from here? Zech. 14:1-5 [sup]1[/sup]Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.[sup]2[/sup]For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.[sup]3[/sup]Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. (The Lord is coming to fight the nations).( When He comes to fight, will He be alone?)[sup][/sup][sup]4[/sup]And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, (remember in Acts 1, what the angels told the disciple at the mount of Olives, when the Lord left back to heaven)which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.[sup]5[/sup]And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
Now the Lord is back on earth, and who is with Him? The saints, who rose and changed," in the twinkling of an eye" are with Him. There was no proof of the Lord returning back to heaven with the saints. So this just one of many ways to prove that the rapture is a false teaching, we have to make full prove of our ministry. Don’t be fooled by the many lies that are being taught. Next I will show through the scripture there is not a seven year tribulation. The same people that teach the rapture also teach seven year tribulation. These doctrines are not supported by scripture. That is just confusion of what that they think the last week of the 7o weeks of Daniel is about.
 

bud02

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Nice post xander. Your information about harpazo then searching to find it used for Philip also is something I had not heard nor considered. Its is something I will add to my list of evidence.

Look forward to your 70th week post, I.m hoping you will again add to my understanding.
 

Xanderoc

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Nice post xander. Your information about harpazo then searching to find it used for Philip also is something I had not heard nor considered. Its is something I will add to my list of evidence.

Look forward to your 70th week post, I.m hoping you will again add to my understanding.

Praise the Lord!!!! May the Lord have a blessing to the reading, and doing of his word. Iron sharpens Iron!!!!
 

Martin W.

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The Truth About The Rapture​
. According to Charles C Ryrie, in the book “Basic Theology”, “the Greek word from which we take the term “rapture” comes from the Latin word rapturo. The Greek word is harpazo, which means to snatch or take away. .......

Don’t be fooled by the many lies that are being taught.

xander.

It sounds to me like you are saying many people teach lies .... except for you of course.

Charles C Ryrie would like you to give an accounting of what you are implying.

Martin W
A.M.M.
WDS.MB.CA.
 

Xanderoc

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xander.

It sounds to me like you are saying many people teach lies .... except for you of course.

Charles C Ryrie would like you to give an accounting of what you are implying.

Martin W
A.M.M.
WDS.MB.CA.
Martin, How can you state what Charles C Ryrie would like for me to do? Ryie did write the book, it wasn't an implication. I am saying many people teach lies!!!! Jesus himself said in
Luke 21:[sup]8[/sup]And he said, Take heed that ye be not deceived: for many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and the time draweth near: go ye not therefore after them.
Paul also said in 2 Thess. 2:[sup] 2[/sup]That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
[sup]3[/sup]Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Paul also said this!!!! 1 Tim 4:1 [sup]1[/sup]Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
So yes, if Jesus said many will come using His name to deceive, and Paul said, Let no man deceive you by any means!!!!! For in the latter times some shall depart from the faith
giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Well what do you think the lie of the rapture is. I will not go back and fourth arguing about this with you. The scriptures are there so we can search the truth. If you believe in the rapture, well those are your beliefs. This lesson was for those that want to know the truth according to the scriptures!!!!
 

bud02

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It sounds to me like you are saying many people teach lies .... except for you of course.

Charles C Ryrie would like you to give an accounting of what you are implying.

Martin W
A.M.M.
WDS.MB.CA.

Charles C Ryrie has quite an educational pedigree, as I see you do as well. I am not familiar with him or his writings but I did take a few minuets to read a bit from him.
Dispensationalism, Revised and Expanded http://www.biblecent...sationalism.htm

From what I read he is making a case for Scofield's Reference Bible, as well as apologizing. Along with implying that non Dispensationalist, use it as well.
Its pretty easy to trace dispensationalism from Darby to Scofield, then from Scofield to main stream seminary's which leaves us with the high percentage of christian denominations that teach it today. It is the accepted academic reference bible use by most teachers that have obtained a license to teach. To me this is not evidence of sound doctrine, any more than the high priest sitting in the synagogue during the time of Jesus.

If you have something to echo from Mr. Ryrie please do so. It would have saved me the boring reading about "the definition of dispensationalism. I am always cautious of people that go to great length to define or redefine the definition of words. It's most often used by cults.
 

veteran

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Nice OP Xander,

One of the ideas the 'rapture' doctrines depend on is the idea of the saints being taken to Heaven while others are left on the earth.

During this world age, Heaven is known to be above the earth, but where is it really per God's Word? Per Scripture like Isaiah 25, Heaven where God's Abode rests, is behind a vail. I use the word dimension to describe it, this earthly being one dimension, and the heavenly being the other dimension of existence. Apostle Paul gave that detail also when he described two different types of bodies, the "image of the earthy" and the "image of the heavenly" (1 Cor.15).

But what God's Word reveals about the 'harpazo', is that it happens on the earth, but only AFTER the change and resurrection at the time of Christ's return to this earth. That change at the twinkling of an eye Paul described involves a change from the image of the earthy to the image of the heavenly. It does not depend upon going into Heaven for that to happen.

So the question is, just where is Heaven when that happens? Where it has always been, behind a vail. The main difference is that vail will be removed at that point, even upon this earth. That is how even those who pierced Jesus, which is a marker for His enemies on earth, will also see His coming with the clouds. All nations on earth will see it, because of the vail separating the earthly and the heavenly being removed at an instant.

The truly difficult part for many to accept is what causes that "moment" of change at "the twinkling of an eye" for those upon the earth, what causes the removal of that vail cast over all nations. It is God's consuming fire on the day of The LORD. That's the timing of Christ's coming "as a thief". And it will burn man's works off this earth at an instant (2 Pet.3:10). God gave us Scripture that declares that event, and how those in Him through Christ are not to worry about it, because it will not affect us.

Ps 46:1-11
1 God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble.
2 Therefore will not we fear, though the earth be removed, and though the mountains be carried into the midst of the sea;
3 Though the waters thereof roar and be troubled, though the mountains shake with the swelling thereof. Selah.

Even when we see the earth trembling on that day, the mountains being moved, and the waters roaring from that change, we are not have fear. The word "Selah" is a musical pause, and it's a pointer to stop for a moment and consider what is being said.

4 There is a river, the streams whereof shall make glad the city of God, the holy place of the tabernacles of the most High.
5 God is in the midst of her; she shall not be moved: God shall help her, and that right early.

That's about God's River of the waters of life being established on earth at Christ's coming, and Christ coming to dwell in the midst of the Holy City established on earth in Jerusalem, starting His Milennium reign.

6 The heathen raged, the kingdoms were moved: He uttered His voice, the earth melted.

There's the effect of God's consuming fire on the day of Christ's coming, man's works on the earth being burned off it. That event is what will usher all of us into the Milennium time, and it will come at an instant. That's the "sudden destruction" Apostle Paul described upon those who sleep in the night (1 Thess.5).

7 The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.

Yet The LORD is with His servants, and He is our refuge from that storm that will come at an instant upon the earth. Selah again. Just as Christ protected Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego in the hot firery furnace heated 7 times hotter than necessary, and it didn't even touch them. When they came out even their clothes did not smell of smoke.

8 Come, behold the works of the LORD, what desolations He hath made in the earth.
9 He maketh wars to cease unto the end of the earth; He breaketh the bow, and cutteth the spear in sunder; He burneth the chariot in the fire.
10 Be still, and know that I am God: I will be exalted among the heathen, I will be exalted in the earth.
11 The LORD of hosts is with us; the God of Jacob is our refuge. Selah.
(KJV)

"Be still", put your trust in The LORD on that day. If we remain in Christ Jesus, we have no need to worry about that event coming upon this earth at an instant. God will be very accurate with His time of wrath too, as it will not touch His servants that remain in Christ.
 

Martin W.

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Who in this thread has the power and authority to claim the timing of the rapture.

I do not make the claim to know the answer.

If you can make the claim , then stand up and be counted.

Arnie Madsen.
 

Xanderoc

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Who in this thread has the power and authority to claim the timing of the rapture.

I do not make the claim to know the answer.

If you can make the claim , then stand up and be counted.

Arnie Madsen.

I CAN MAKE THE CLAIM, AT NO TIME WILL GOD TAKE MAN BACK TO HEAVEN!!!The point of the post was to prove the rapture is a false doctrine. It doesn't matter which view point you accept ,pretribulation, mid tribulation, or post tribulation. God isn't taking anyone back to heaven. Now Martin, if you make that claim, PROVE IT THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES.
 

Paul

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Who in this thread has the power and authority to claim the timing of the rapture.
...

If you can make the claim , then stand up and be counted.
...


I can answer that! The answer is there is no rapture and we can know ahead of time when the Lord will return. The "any moment" doctrine of most evangelical churches is also false.
 

Foreigner

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Your answers are but opinions, Paul and Xander.

There are very learned scholars who have studied the word of God with their whole hearts for their whole lives who still differ on this opinion. People who have literally spend their lives studying the Gospel and living for Jesus, asking for Diving guidance, yet still disagree with each other.
.
Yet each uses the Word of God to support their positions.

You may claim it as false, but you, like me, are no more qualified to say that than others here who claim it as absolute truth and assume that should be the last word on the subject.
 

bud02

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Your answers are but opinions, Paul and Xander.

There are very learned scholars who have studied the word of God with their whole hearts for their whole lives who still differ on this opinion. People who have literally spend their lives studying the Gospel and living for Jesus, asking for Diving guidance, yet still disagree with each other.
.
Yet each uses the Word of God to support their positions.

You may claim it as false, but you, like me, are no more qualified to say that than others here who claim it as absolute truth and assume that should be the last word on the subject.

[sup]12[/sup] Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; [sup]13[/sup] for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
 

Surf Rider

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in the kingdom of heaven right now

I can answer that! ....we can know ahead of time when the Lord will return. The "any moment" doctrine of most evangelical churches is also false.

I fully agree with that scripturally correct answer, as shown in my edited version of it. The part that I deleted I do not agree with. I do not scripturally agree with the teaching of the church on the rapture, but also do not scripturally agree with your conclusion on it, either. I do appreciate seeing someone that does not conform to the common feeding trough doctrines in this topic.
 

Paul

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Your answers are but opinions, Paul ...

Yes, it is my opinion, based on years of studying Scripture, and , due to the closeness of the "delivery date," a better understanding of the signs. Remember we are told in Scripture that it will be like a women in travail; the closer the birth the more accurate can be the delivery time.
 

Foreigner

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But Paul, there are people who have studied scripture for decades, many with a focus on just this topic.
They have Ph.Ds and an absolute heart for God. They meet with others, not to find support for their position but to get to the truth.
Many of these God fearing, spirit filled, Jesus searching people are in disagreement with each other over the topic.

You mention the years you have spend studying scripture. If I said I could match the years you spend studying but disagree with what you found, how then could you say which of us is wrong?
If I have searched the scripture with the same intensity, sincerity and open-mindedness that I believe you have, but we come to a different opinion, how can either of us say the other is wrong? OF COURSE one of us is wrong....but which?

I tend not to believe in the pre-Tribulation Rapture. But there is indeed scripture that supports the idea of a pre-Tribulation Rapture.
I am not the "double minded man" that James speaks of. I am simply studying further to sort through what appears to be almost conflicting information.
Belief in the Rapture is not the "perverting of scripture" or "demonic doctrine" that people on this board rant about. These are God loving people who are seeking and have come to this conclusion. The hope should be that they simply learn the truth.

Again, simply feel that if there is disagreement between people more learned than I who are seeking God with their whole hearts, then an open mind is warranted.
 

Paul

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But Paul, there are people who have studied scripture for decades, many with a focus on just this topic.
They have Ph.Ds and an absolute heart for God. They meet with others, not to find support for their position but to get to the truth.
Many of these God fearing, spirit filled, Jesus searching people are in disagreement with each other over the topic.

Ph.D’s, how do you know if I have one or not? And does having a Ph.D really make a difference when studying and UNDERSTANDING Scripture? Do you have a Ph.D, if so in what? Where from and on what did you write Your paper?

You mention the years you have spend studying scripture. If I said I could match the years you spend studying but disagree with what you found, how then could you say which of us is wrong?
If I have searched the scripture with the same intensity, sincerity and open-mindedness that I believe you have, but we come to a different opinion, how can either of us say the other is wrong? OF COURSE one of us is wrong....but which?

I tend not to believe in the pre-Tribulation Rapture. But there is indeed scripture that supports the idea of a pre-Tribulation Rapture.
I am not the "double minded man" that James speaks of. I am simply studying further to sort through what appears to be almost conflicting information.
Belief in the Rapture is not the "perverting of scripture" or "demonic doctrine" that people on this board rant about. These are God loving people who are seeking and have come to this conclusion. The hope should be that they simply learn the truth.

Again, simply feel that if there is disagreement between people more learned than I who are seeking God with their whole hearts, then an open mind is warranted.

There is NO scripture that supports the idea of a pre-Tribulation Rapture. You will not find one unless you take a verse or two out of context and add something to it that was not there.

For the rest I am willing to wait, we will see if your “rapture” stuff is correct or not. If it is, there will be no problem for either one of us, if it’s not, you will pay a terrible price.
 

Xanderoc

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But Paul, there are people who have studied scripture for decades, many with a focus on just this topic.
They have Ph.Ds and an absolute heart for God. They meet with others, not to find support for their position but to get to the truth.
Many of these God fearing, spirit filled, Jesus searching people are in disagreement with each other over the topic.
I wonder about all those Ph'D's and what do they mean. Catholics have degrees in theology, Protestant, Jehovah Witness, and Calvinist, all these who claim the title "Christian", have some type of degree in theology. So out of all these educated people, with all these different doctrines, who has the truth? My point is if a person has Ph'D's in theology that doesn't mean they know the truth. The Lord didn't pick the most educated people to be his disciples. The ones who were educated in the scriptures in His day, were called by Him, children of Satan!! Paul was probably the most educated,and his writings seam to cause the most confusion by people who have all these degrees. The word says "the simplicity in Christ".

I tend not to believe in the pre-Tribulation Rapture. But there is indeed scripture that supports the idea of a pre-Tribulation Rapture.
Show me where you think the bible supports the pre tribulation rapture. Or did you even read the OP?

Belief in the Rapture is not the "perverting of scripture" or "demonic doctrine" that people on this board rant about. These are God loving people who are seeking and have come to this conclusion. The hope should be that they simply learn the truth.

Again, simply feel that if there is disagreement between people more learned than I who are seeking God with their whole hearts, then an open mind is warranted.
I agree with the last part of this statement. I hope these people learn the truth. This is my hope for all those who truly love the Lord!!! I disagree with the first part of this statement. The doctrine of the rapture gives people a false sense of security. A false hope. If the people wait until the Lord returns, it will be after the tribulation.And I still don't see in the scriptures where the Lord takes anyone back to heaven.
 

Foreigner

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"Ph.D’s, how do you know if I have one or not? And does having a Ph.D really make a difference when studying and UNDERSTANDING Scripture? Do you have a Ph.D, if so in what? Where from and on what did you write Your paper?" - Paul

-- lol Enhance your calm, Paul.
I never claimed to have a Ph. D. Never even implied it. And I am willing to bet that you yourself don't have one, either. But hey, anything is possible.
But when you start espousing "years" of study that can mean just about anything. Daily study several hours a day, following along with one of the TV evangelists a couple of times a week and getting mailings, or just a weekly Bible study.

Let us be candid, shall we? People with Ph.D.s who made a life and career of studying scriptures aren't likely to be hanging around a small, unremarkable Christian chat board like this. You and I are.
A Ph. D does not give you spiritual enlightenment. A Ph. D involving focused spirit-guided study does, combined with prayer, fasting, humility and a desire to know God's truth, does.

The point stands. There Jesus focused scholars much more studied and learned than you and I that have spend more time, given more focus, and sought more guidance from God than you and I, that still disagree on this topic.



"I wonder about all those Ph'D's and what do they mean. Catholics have degrees in theology, Protestant, Jehovah Witness, and Calvinist, all these who claim the title "Christian", have some type of degree in theology. So out of all these educated people, with all these different doctrines, who has the truth? My point is if a person has Ph'D's in theology that doesn't mean they know the truth." - Xander

-- See my comments above. I am talking about Jesus loving, spirit filled, true Christians. The parties you mentioned were not mentioned by me.
It strikes me as amusing when



"Paul was probably the most educated,and his writings seam to cause the most confusion by people who have all these degrees. The word says "the simplicity in Christ"." - Xander

-- An unsubstantiated - and incorrect - statement. To be blatant, you are not qualified to make that assumption about these people.
It implies that those who take the scriptures at face value are the ones who are the most accurate in their undestanding, period.
Surely someone who says, "actually, in the ancient Greek..." or "What the Hebrew actually says is..." would disagree with that.

I am curious as to how you can be so utterly dismissive of people that likely have spend more time and heartfelt effort trying to learn the truth than you or I.
Guess you are just gifted.
 

Paul

Member
Aug 19, 2006
529
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Let us be candid, shall we? People with Ph.D.s who made a life and career of studying scriptures aren't likely to be hanging around a small, unremarkable Christian chat board like this. You and I are.
A Ph. D does not give you spiritual enlightenment. A Ph. D involving focused spirit-guided study does, combined with prayer, fasting, humility and a desire to know God's truth, does.
...

"Paul was probably the most educated,and his writings seam to cause the most confusion by people who have all these degrees. The word says "the simplicity in Christ"." - Xander

-- An unsubstantiated - and incorrect - statement. To be blatant, you are not qualified to make that assumption about these people.
...

I am curious as to how you can be so utterly dismissive of people that likely have spend more time and heartfelt effort trying to learn the truth than you or I.
Guess you are just gifted.

I don't think you are the person to make any judgments about any person’s qualifications. Do you remember who Paul trained under, he tells us. You also don’t know anything about Xander or me. Do you know what I do for a living? No, you don’t. How can you even presume how much time I spend in God’s Word.

Let us be candid, shall we? People with Ph.D.s who made a life and career of studying scriptures aren't likely to be hanging around a small, unremarkable Christian chat board like this. You and I are.
A Ph. D does not give you spiritual enlightenment. A Ph. D involving focused spirit-guided study does, combined with prayer, fasting, humility and a desire to know God's truth, does.

Do you even know any people with PhD’s, probably not after a statement like that. Ah, why spend my time arguing with you, I have far better things to do.
.
 

bud02

New Member
Aug 14, 2010
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Foreigner and I share the same opinion.
It's quite clear to me, a PHD, BA, MD, or any other certificate is just that a certificate from one man to another.
You can get one of these in a day or two with your credit card on line.
What does it mean, absolutely nothing
What does it say about your relationship to Jesus? You might guess that for your self
But If you have a catholic faith you may be offended simply because they have been voting themselves vicar of Christ for centuries, one man certifying another

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