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Featured The Unclothed State (2 Cor. 5:4)

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by charity, Apr 9, 2019.

  1. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened:
    not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon,
    that mortality might be swallowed up of life.'

    (2 Corinthians 5:4)

    Hello there,

    Reading through another thread this morning, I came across a statement made by a member regarding the 'unclothed' state, referred to here by Paul in 2 Corinthians 5. This member believed that the 'unclothed' were disembodied spirits.

    I believe that at death the body goes back to the dust from whence it came, and that the spirit (or breath of life) goes back to God who gave it (Ecclesiastes 12:7). That what is referred to here as an unclothed state, is the state of death itself. For what Paul wished to avoid was dying prior to the Lord's return, for his expectation was to be clothed upon with a resurrection body, and be with the Lord, which required the Lord's physical presence.

    The hope expressed during the Acts period was for the imminent return of Christ, which required Israel's repentance, which did not come, so we still await the appearing of our Saviour, and the resurrection promised.

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  2. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    This means...not that we would be unclothed of personal righteousness...but rather further clothed with the righteousness of God.

    The white raiment we are to desire is the righteousness of saints. If we are unclothed then we are naked and shamed...having soiled our garments through sin.
     
  3. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened:
    not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon,
    that mortality might be swallowed up of life.'

    (2 Corinthians 5:4)

    Hello @Episkopos,

    Thank you for responding. However, the context of 2 Corinthians 5, does not support that.

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  4. APAK

    APAK Well-Known Member

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    Hi Charity..this is my rendition on it..

    I believe being unclothed or naked in this context means to be NOW and in the NEXT life a separated being, a disengaged spirit not desired by the will of God. This spirit is devoid of any form or power or purpose. They shall not be in the Kingdom.

    Paul was not concerned about being unclothed in the least, as I ma not. He already knew he was clothed. Being clothed is the hope of all believers to found wearing the wedding garments given by God our Father. We then can partake of the waters of life, an eternal life in the body of Christ where we have purpose and glory.

    I think adding in the physical temple part can confuse a bit. And Paul is 'burdened' now because he has not his final body and it is still in a corrupt shell. He was yearning to be clothed in his eternal state NOW.

    Bless you,

    APAK
     
  5. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    2 Corinthians 5:4 Revised Standard Version Catholic Edition (RSVCE)
    4 For while we are still in this tent, we sigh with anxiety; not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life.

    The tent is our earthly flesh.
     
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  6. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Yes agree Charity :)

    To our spirit-man this body is a weight which grounds us from the spiritual realm so often. When I am ever sick or in pain...I am very conscious of it's 'weight'. :)

    Like Paul, we don't wish to be unclothed before our time...
    But, in this now and now...we have to remind ourselves that 'we do have wings' and we can rise above this realm into the Spirit. :)
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019
  7. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    @APAK
    @CoreIssue
    @"ByGrace"

    Thank you for your thoughts on this subject.

    Yes, "ByGrace", I am reminded every day that this natural body is a body of humiliation :): but praise God! We also have the prospect of one day being clothed upon by our spiritual body, mortality will be 'swallowed up of life.'

    'There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial:
    but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
    There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars:
    for one star differeth from another star in glory.
    So also is the resurrection of the dead.
    It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
    It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory:
    it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
    It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body.

    There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
    (1 Corinthians 15:10-44)

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris


     
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  8. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Just for clarity of other readers the spirits of Saints will be clothed in glorified flesh for eternity.

    Spiritual is often abused word.
     
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  9. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Hi there.

    Maybe it was not a mistake..but did you mean to thanks CoreIssues for posting here? I don't see it.
    I do see one from Episkopos here though. ;)

    I do see that Paul always spoke of his inner man of the spirit, and not too often of his bodily frame. Yet I don't see a place anywhere where we would ever lose the clothing/covering of the Holy Spirit upon our inner man.
     
  10. Bible_Gazer

    Bible_Gazer Active Member

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    I see it as death also without the body, but receiving the heaven body soon as this flesh stop breathing.
    In 2Cor.5 it contradict a lot of people belief of the resurrection.

    v8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
    (you get a new body being present with the Lord)

    The problem is with this thoughts is with some is that they want to put people in heaven when they
    die at the funeral home and at the grave yard preach they are going to be resurrected from the dead. o_O


     
  11. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    At first I thought the thread was about bikini designs, or something...

    As regards Paul's argument, it seems to be in relation to the resurrection bodies of believers in a coming day. Indeed, he speaks about the Resurrection in 2 Corinthians 5.15.
     
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  12. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    I have often felt that. Interesting. Hope this is not too off topic @charity

    It is what we were taught.
    So what do you think Job meant when he said ..Job 19
    26 "And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God."

    If flesh and blood do not inherit ......what do you think he was meaning here?
     
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  13. farouk

    farouk Well-Known Member

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    Clearly it was a hope - albeit afar off in Job's case - of the Resurrection. Wonderful to consider, so far back...
     
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  14. Bible_Gazer

    Bible_Gazer Active Member

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    As Farouk says it in post#13... looking for a resurrection
    Here is another problem with some.
    since no one went to heaven until after Jesus, they all came short of the promise as said in Hebrews 11 says about the faithful.
    So everyone have to except that promise, so Job as well as othera may had or will have a resurrection in the flesh to have that chance.
     
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  15. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    'And as they thus spake, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them,
    and saith unto them,
    "Peace be unto you."
    But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
    And He said unto them,
    "Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
    Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see;
    for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have."

    And when He had thus spoken, He shewed them His hands and His feet.'
    (Luke 24:36-40)

    Hello @"ByGrace",

    I believe that the resurrection body will consist of 'flesh and bone', as our Lord's resurrection body did. The description in Ezekiel of the dried bones being clothed with flesh is an interesting chapter (ch.37)

    Thank you
    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
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  16. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Oh good verses Charity ...I had forgotten those. :) Excellent.

    Glorified spirital flesh.
     
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  17. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    I agree.

    The Valley of dry bones was a reference to national Israel, not individuals. When they returned to God they return to life as a nation.
     
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  18. CoreIssue

    CoreIssue Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 19:8 New International Version (NIV)
    8 Fine linen, bright and clean,
    was given her to wear.”

    (Fine linen stands for the righteous acts of God’s holy people.)
     
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  19. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @Bible_Gazer,

    I am finding it hard to understand what you are saying here, I'm afraid; so if I don't reply in the way you expect, please let me know. :)

    'And these all, having obtained a good report through faith,
    received not the promise:
    God having provided some better thing for us,
    that they without us should not be made perfect.'

    (Hebrews 11:39-40)

    * These men and women of faith looked for, 'a better resurrection' (verse 35), didn't they?
    * Jews generally, believed like Mary (John 11:24), in a resurrection from the dead, which would take place, 'at the last day' (Acts 26:7,8).
    * What is the better resurrection? There are four descriptions of this better thing in Hebrews:-

    - The better and enduring substance in heaven
    - The better and heavenly Country
    - The better resurrection
    - The better thing provided

    * These four better things have the nature of 'reward': and in regard to the better resurrection, it is something which God has planned for those who overcome by faith, in which they should all enter together, Abel and Noah, Abraham and Moses, the suffering saints of the Apostle's day, and the last one to endure under the economy of grace pertaining to the Hebrews, together shall enter into this 'better country', this New Jerusalem, which will come down out of heaven to the New Earth.


    * This is not my hope as a member of the Church which is His Body: but it is for those addressed in the epistle to the Hebrews, and spoken of in Hebrews 11.

    Praise God!

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris




     
  20. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Yes, @CoreIssue,

    I agree, but it is interesting none the less, isn't it?

    In Christ Jesus
    Chris
     
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