The unforgiveable sin ?
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twinc
No, seems no one is interested.
Perhaps you should state your view, which you already have, and then maybe there would be some participation. Or, are you saying you are ignorant of what the unforgivable sin is and want to know?
Stranger
No, seems no one is interested.
Perhaps you should state your view, which you already have, and then maybe there would be some participation. Or, are you saying you are ignorant of what the unforgivable sin is and want to know?
Stranger
Sorry, I don't see where. There is a similar topic under the 'Christian Theology' section called 'blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgivable'. First page about three quarters of the way down.twinc said:
Stranger
dorian37grey
Member
the unforgivable sin ; is a sin only a christian can do ( in a way)
it requires the condition of having "had" the holy spirit - in order to blaspheme the holy spirit
in essence ; it is having had it ; then walking away from it
the reason it is "unpardonable is ;
the process it took to get to the holy spirit ; required losing the old man
the old man being lost was a step in getting to be the new man
the old man ( body and soul) was in debt to sin
Jesus came in the flesh ; to pay the price( kinsman redeem) of the body
thus freeing the soul to be joined by ...
new creation ( soul and holy spirit)
once the soul has been freed from the fate of the body ; there is no body to be kinsman redeemed again
thus; it is unpardonable ( because no method is left )
MATTHEW 12 : 43-45 ; is referring to this ( that freed soul ; once cleaned and no longer with the holy spirit)
it requires the condition of having "had" the holy spirit - in order to blaspheme the holy spirit
in essence ; it is having had it ; then walking away from it
the reason it is "unpardonable is ;
the process it took to get to the holy spirit ; required losing the old man
the old man being lost was a step in getting to be the new man
the old man ( body and soul) was in debt to sin
Jesus came in the flesh ; to pay the price( kinsman redeem) of the body
thus freeing the soul to be joined by ...
new creation ( soul and holy spirit)
once the soul has been freed from the fate of the body ; there is no body to be kinsman redeemed again
thus; it is unpardonable ( because no method is left )
MATTHEW 12 : 43-45 ; is referring to this ( that freed soul ; once cleaned and no longer with the holy spirit)
Wormwood
Chaps
The unforgivable sin was the sin of the Pharisees seeing the good and miraculous works of Jesus done by the power of the Holy Spirit and attributing those good works to Satan. I guess it is unforgivable because Jesus declared it as much. Seems Jesus didn't care if people didn't think well of him, but to blaspheme the Holy Spirit was not something God was willing to put up with.
Christians have a tendency to associate this sin with eternal life only. In other words, if one has ever committed the unpardonable sin then he or she is doomed forever. And that is not true. It does mean that if one does commit this sin that there is coming a judgement from God for that. But one can still repent and come to Christ for salvation.
The Pharisees had rejected Christ many times already. Yet God in His mercy withheld judgement. But with this attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to Satan, there will be no forgiveness. Judgement is coming. Israel rejected Christ, now God rejects Israel.
On the cross, the only people Christ was forgiving were those who were the ones who were crucifying Him and having him crucified. On the cross Jesus was not forgiving the sins of the world. He was paying for the sins of the world. And because He paid for them all, He can forgive.
Thus, though our sins as Christians have been paid for, we still come to Christ seeking forgiveness. (1John 1:9) "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Stranger
The Pharisees had rejected Christ many times already. Yet God in His mercy withheld judgement. But with this attributing the works of the Holy Spirit to Satan, there will be no forgiveness. Judgement is coming. Israel rejected Christ, now God rejects Israel.
On the cross, the only people Christ was forgiving were those who were the ones who were crucifying Him and having him crucified. On the cross Jesus was not forgiving the sins of the world. He was paying for the sins of the world. And because He paid for them all, He can forgive.
Thus, though our sins as Christians have been paid for, we still come to Christ seeking forgiveness. (1John 1:9) "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
Stranger
it is unforgiveable because those who have committed it are unlikely to repent and many are already dead nobody is going trrepent or admit that they and not the supposed and claimed inspiration via the H/S has produced the fruits of division, divergence, ddifferences, disputes , confusion and chaos and much worse also etc - twinc
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The prodestant reformation began by rejecting the authority of the Catholic Church to interpret scripture. They took an opposing view which rejects any source of revelation and interpretation other than the Bible, Sola scriptura. It changed since then, but my point is division came first at the reformation. Then other Churches formed, believing in Holy Spirit inspiration by the freedom that followed the reformation.twinc said:
BreadOfLife
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Most Christian scholars - Catholic and Protestant - agree that the "unforgivable" sin is final impenitence.lforrest said:
The refusal of the Holy spirit's call to repent.
ALL sins can be forgiven as long as we are alive and repent.
This sin is unforgivable because it was never repented of.
No, the unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Repentance is not an issue.BreadOfLife said:
This sin cannot be repented of. That is the whole point. But, salvation, eternal destiny is not what is in view here.
Reread (or read the Scriptures) again. (Matt. 12:9-32)
Stranger
BreadOfLife
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Wrong.Stranger said:
ALL sin can be repented of in your lifetime.
In context, Jesus was referring to the Pharisees who KNEW He was the Christ by the guidance of the Holy Spirit and STILL rejected Him.
They blasphemed by claiming that Jesus' power was from the Devil and not from above.
Like I said - most credible Scripture scholars agree with that assessment.
No, repentance is from God. He allows it or He doesn't. He doesn't have to. It is not a question of salvation as far as eternal destination. It is a question of your life here and now with God.BreadOfLife said:
For example, Do you think Moses is in Heaven now? I assume you do, but, who knows.
Well, God was angry with Moses for striking the Rock in the wilderness when he should have spoke to the Rock as God said. (Num.20:7-13) But he didn't. But God was merciful and water came forth anyway. But God remembered what Moses did. And as a result, Moses was not allowed to enter the promised land. (Num.20:12)
Moses later tried to repent of this sin. (Deut.3:23-27) . But God refused it, saying, "speak no more unto me of this matter...for thou shalt not go over this Jordan." You see. Moses tried to repent but God refused. Moses still went to Heaven. But he suffered the judgement of God for what he did. Thus, your statement that all sin can be repented of is false. But that doesn't mean one doesn't go to Heaven.
(Heb.6:1-3) "...let us go unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works...And this will we do, if God permit." The fact is, God may not permit. He may bring judgement on the believer. It is His decision.
Go ahead and 'follow' your 'credible' scholars. And ignore the Scriptures.
Stranger
Wormwood
Chaps
Well, obviously, there are a lot of views among scholars on this issue. However, my pov, for what it is worth, is that God would not forgive this sin. Jesus didn't say it was a sin that would keep a person from repenting. He said it was a sin that God would not pardon. In other words, if you commit this sin, you will not receive forgiveness. Personally, I think saying that it amounts to any sin we refuse to repent of misses the point and the context. The Pharisees are saying Jesus' good works were done by the devil. Jesus tells them that to blaspheme the HS is something God will not forgive. I don't think it applies to us because we are not walking around with Jesus watching him do miraculous works.
BreadOfLife
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No - grace is from God. Repentance is our cooperation with that grace.Stranger said:
Your Moses reference is WEAK at best.
The Bible teaches that although we are forgiven when we repent - the temporal punishment may still exist.
David was forgiven for having Uriah killed so that he could have his wife.
HOWEVER, the sword never left David's house.
Here is a perfect example of this: Suppose, you were a promiscuous person who contracted HIV and finally repented of his sin. Is that the end of it??
OR, do you still have to deal with the fact that you contracted HIV?? Does your forgiveness automatically mean that your HIV disappears??
If I break my neighbor's window in anger and repent of it - does the window fix itself - or does somebody ave to still pay for it???
ALL sin can be forgiven - if we cooperate with the grace to repent. Rejection of the Holy Spirit's call to repent is only unforgivable if we die without heeding His call.
The context of what Jesus said regarding the Pharisees points to the fact that the only "unforgiveable" sin is final impenitence.
BUT, context never seems to be your friend . . .
Again, repentance plays no role in the unforgiveable sin. Jesus clearly states that "it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come." (Matt.12:32)BreadOfLife said:
If this sin is committed by a believer, then judgment from God will come. But his salvation is still secure. If this sin is committed by a non-believer, then judgement from God will come. But he can still be saved if he turns to Christ.
It has to do with judgement and forgiveness here and now. If any non-believer commits this sin, he doesn't go to hell because of this sin. He goes to hell for refusing to accept Christ as his Lord and Saviour.
Stranger
BreadOfLife
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No – the crux of this debate is whether or not this “unforgivable” sin is indeed unforgivable.Stranger said:
You have just agreed with me that it CAN be forgiven – so case closed.
And, it doesn’t matter WHO commits the sin of final impenitence.
Anybody who is impenitent will not be saved.
I said in post #18 that it shall not be forgiven. Now you say I agree with you that it can be forgiven. So, how is case closed? Maybe in your mind.BreadOfLife said:
The unpardonable sin is not a question of eternal destiny.
Stranger
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