The Woman's Water vs Jesus' Water

[Webers_Home]

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● John 3:5 . . I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God
unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

There lacks a consensus among the experts as to the meaning of the water
about which Jesus spoke. But I think it's pretty simple because he spoke of it
again in the very next chapter to a no-account woman that he met on the
road to Samaria.

● John 4:14 . .Whoever drinks the water I shall give will never thirst; the
water I shall give will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal
life.

In other words; the water that Jesus spoke of in John 3:5 isn't for baptism;
it's for drinking.
_

 

[justbyfaith]

Of course, there are certain customary verses that speak of baptismal regneration....Romans 6:1-4, Colossians 2:11, 1 Peter 3:20-21, Acts 22:16, Acts 2:38-39 w/ Romans 8:30, etc.

 

[atpollard]

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● John 3:5 . . I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God
unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

There lacks a consensus among the experts as to the meaning of the water
about which Jesus spoke. But I think it's pretty simple because he spoke of it
again in the very next chapter to a no-account woman that he met on the
road to Samaria.

● John 4:14 . .Whoever drinks the water I shall give will never thirst; the
water I shall give will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal
life.

In other words; the water that Jesus spoke of in John 3:5 isn't for baptism;
it's for drinking.
_

I am not sure that I am fully convinced, but it was well presented and isn’t a “crazy” idea.
So what is the “water” that Jesus gives us to drink?

The weakness of your position is the need to make it either ‘spiritual’ or ‘symbolic’ since there is no literal drinking of water presented in the Gospels ...

• [John 4:7-26 NASB] 7 There came a woman of Samaria to draw water. Jesus said to her, "Give Me a drink." 8 For His disciples had gone away into the city to buy food. 9 Therefore the Samaritan woman said to Him, "How is it that You, being a Jew, ask me for a drink since I am a Samaritan woman?" (For Jews have no dealings with Samaritans.) 10 Jesus answered and said to her, "If you knew the gift of God, and who it is who says to you, 'Give Me a drink,' you would have asked Him, and He would have given you living water." 11 She said to Him, "Sir, You have nothing to draw with and the well is deep; where then do You get that living water? 12 "You are not greater than our father Jacob, are You, who gave us the well, and drank of it himself and his sons and his cattle?" 13 Jesus answered and said to her, "Everyone who drinks of this water will thirst again; 14 but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life." 15 The woman said to Him, "Sir, give me this water, so I will not be thirsty nor come all the way here to draw." 16 He said to her, "Go, call your husband and come here." 17 The woman answered and said, "I have no husband." Jesus said to her, "You have correctly said, 'I have no husband'; 18 for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; this you have said truly." 19 The woman said to Him, "Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet. 20 "Our fathers worshiped in this mountain, and you [people] say that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship." 21 Jesus said to her, "Woman, believe Me, an hour is coming when neither in this mountain nor in Jerusalem will you worship the Father. 22 "You worship what you do not know; we worship what we know, for salvation is from the Jews. 23 "But an hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for such people the Father seeks to be His worshipers. 24 "God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." 25 The woman said to Him, "I know that Messiah is coming (He who is called Christ); when that One comes, He will declare all things to us." 26 Jesus said to her, "I who speak to you am [He.]"

Jesus does mention “Living Water” one other time in John ...

• [John 7:38 NASB] 38 "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture said, 'From his innermost being will flow rivers of living water.'"

Interestingly, the Old Testament does have references to Living Water that may be the water that Jesus was referring to in John 4 (and perhaps the ‘water’ of John 3:5?).

• [Jeremiah 17:13 NASB] 13 O LORD, the hope of Israel, All who forsake You will be put to shame. Those who turn away on earth will be written down, Because they have forsaken the fountain of living water, even the LORD.
  
• [Jeremiah 2:13 NASB] 13 "For My people have committed two evils: They have forsaken Me, The fountain of living waters, To hew for themselves cisterns, Broken cisterns That can hold no water
• [Zechariah 14:8 NASB] 8 And in that day living waters will flow out of Jerusalem, half of them toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea; it will be in summer as well as in winter.

So if the “water” is “God” (living water), then John 3:5 is claiming that to be “born from above” is to be reborn of the “LORD” and the (Holy) Spirit?

 

[BreadOfLife]

● John 3:5 . . I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

There lacks a consensus among the experts as to the meaning of the water about which Jesus spoke. But I think it's pretty simple because he spoke of it again in the very next chapter to a no-account woman that he met on the
road to Samaria.

● John 4:14 . .Whoever drinks the water I shall give will never thirst; the water I shall give will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal life.

In other words; the water that Jesus spoke of in John 3:5 isn't for baptism; it's for drinking.

NONSENSE.

As usual, you cherry-pick when you should be reading all of Scripture in context.
There are multiple uses and contexts for "Water" (Isa. 12:3, 2 Sam. 22:17, Ezek, 36:25-26, Matt. 3:11, Heb. 10:22) - just as there are multiple uses for "Rock" in Scripture.

Most anti-Catholics will say that Peter cannot be the "Rock" of Matt. 16:18 because Christ is the "ONLY" Rock (1 Cor. 10:4, Rom. 9:33, Eph. 2:20), However, a rudimentary knowledge of Scripture shows us that Abraham is also called "The Rock" (Isa. 51:1-2), just as Peter is (Matt. 16:8).

As always, context is your enemy . . .

 

[Nancy]

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● John 3:5 . . I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God
unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

There lacks a consensus among the experts as to the meaning of the water
about which Jesus spoke. But I think it's pretty simple because he spoke of it
again in the very next chapter to a no-account woman that he met on the
road to Samaria.

● John 4:14 . .Whoever drinks the water I shall give will never thirst; the
water I shall give will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal
life.

In other words; the water that Jesus spoke of in John 3:5 isn't for baptism;
it's for drinking.
_

Personally speaking, I do believe it was the sac of water in the womb. Many think this "born of water" means baptism. There is NOTHING about baptism in those verses.
Born naturally=natural birth or, entering into this world physically and then the Spiritual Birth through the Spirit of God. It is the only thing that makes sense to me.

 

[Webers_Home]

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● John 3:6 . .That which is born of the flesh is flesh

The Greek word for "flesh" in John 3:3-8 is sarx (sarx) which basically refers
to the meaty parts of the body rather than its liquids.

Sarx incudes microscopic meaty parts too, for example:

● Rom 1:3 . . His son Jesus Christ our Lord; which was made of the seed of
David according to the flesh

The koiné Greek word for "seed" in that passage is sperma (sper' mah)
which in males typically refers to their reproductive stuff and/or their genetic
material; especially when the seed is according to the flesh-- according to
the sarx -- viz: biological seed rather than spiritual seed.

NOTE: There is a divine seed (1John 3:9) which is transferred by the Spirit
via John 3:6.

Anyway, in a nutshell: It would not profit people to start all over again in
their mother's womb because the only kind of life that women are equipped
to produce is human life; whereas among the varieties of life that the Spirit
is equipped to produce is eternal life; in other words: that which is divine
rather than human. In point of fact, according to John 5:24, people lacking
eternal life are quite dead on the hoof, and in grave danger of the sum of all
fears.

BTW: Rom 1:3, along with Gen 3:15, is bad news for people who resolutely
refuse to accept that Jesus Christ is biologically related to Adam.
_

 

[Davy]

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● John 3:5 . . I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God
unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

There lacks a consensus among the experts as to the meaning of the water
about which Jesus spoke. But I think it's pretty simple because he spoke of it
again in the very next chapter to a no-account woman that he met on the
road to Samaria.

● John 4:14 . .Whoever drinks the water I shall give will never thirst; the
water I shall give will become in him a spring of water welling up to eternal
life.

In other words; the water that Jesus spoke of in John 3:5 isn't for baptism;
it's for drinking.
_

Two different subjects with the water in John 3 vs. John 4.

In John 4, our Lord Jesus is pointing to the River of The Waters of Life of Revelation 22 and Ezekiel 47. That is God's River, a literal River that was once established upon this earth per Genesis 2. It flowed out of Eden and fed four other rivers on the earth. Ezekiel 47 shows where that River contacts other waters in the future on earth, the old waters will be healed.

So in John 4, Jesus is pointing to a future real Waters from God's River that is to return to this earth when Jesus returns.

But that's not the heart of our Lord's Message with the woman at the well in John 4. She is a Samaritan woman, because Christ's Apostles wondered why He was speaking with her, and even she wondered how Jesus, being a Jew, would speak to her.

The Samaritans were the transplants from five provinces in Babylon that the king of Assyria put in the lands of northern Israel after he had removed all the ten northern tribes of Israel (2 Kings). That was his way of controlling a conquered people. All five of those foreign peoples from Babylon brought their own pagan gods with them. That's who her five husbands represented. Her 6th husband she was then living with and not married to, points to the future coming Antichrist.

 

[Webers_Home]

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Several years ago I asked a substitute Sunday school teacher if he thought
Joseph in the book of Genesis was born again. Well, he was quite taken
aback by the question and asked me to explain.

So I told him that the language and grammar of John 3:3-8 permits no
exceptions: all must be born again; and it's not an option, it's a must.

He didn't have a clue; and by then the class was in an uproar so I didn't
pursue it.
_

 

[Davy]

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Several years ago I asked a substitute Sunday school teacher if he thought
Joseph in the book of Genesis was born again. Well, he was quite taken
aback by the question and asked me to explain.

So I told him that the language and grammar of John 3:3-8 permits no
exceptions: all must be born again; and it's not an option, it's a must.

He didn't have a clue; and by then the class was in an uproar so I didn't
pursue it.
_

Jude 1 says that Enoch, the 7th from Adam, prophesied about Jesus coming with ten thousands of His saints, pointing to our Lord Jesus' 2nd coming. At the end of John 8, Jesus said that Abraham saw His day, and was glad. In Gal.3, Paul taught that all those of Faith are the children of Abraham, because of his Faith on The Promise, which was about The Gospel having been preached to Abraham regarding Christ's Salvation. In Gen.14, Melchizedek offered Abraham bread and wine, and blessed Abraham. In Heb.7, Paul showed that Jesus was the Melchizedek Who met Abraham.

Then the Promise by Faith actually continued down to Abraham's son Isaac, and then to his son Jacob whom God gave the new name Israel, which name represents those who overcome in Christ. And Paul also said in Rom.9 that just because the Jews rejected The Gospel did not mean it was of no effect.

So did Joseph believe The Gospel of Jesus Christ? I believe so, most definitely. Jesus showed that Abraham believed. Hebrews 11 kind of reveals this about the OT saints.

 

[Webers_Home]

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FAQ: Did people in the Old Testament even know about Jesus back then?

A: They may not have known his name, but they were all aware that a
savior was on the way-- beginning with Adam and Eve.

● Gen 3:15 . . I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between
your seed and her seed; he shall bruise your head, and you shall bruise his
heel.

It's pretty much agreed on both sides of the aisle that the seed is Christ.

Others besides Adam and Eve knew.

Abraham:

● John 8:56 . . Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it and was glad.

Jacob:

● Gen 49:18 . . I have waited for thy salvation, O Lord

Moses:

● Heb 11:26 . . He regarded disgrace for the sake of Christ as of greater
value than the treasures of Egypt, because he was looking ahead to his
reward.

Isaiah:

● Isa 52:14 . .There were many who were appalled at him— his appearance
was so disfigured beyond that of any man and his form marred beyond
human likeness

● Isa 53:6 . .We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to
his own way; and the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

All the prophets:

● 1Pet 1:10-11 . . Concerning this salvation, prophets who prophesied about
the grace that was to be yours searched and investigated it, investigating
the time and circumstances that the Spirit of Christ within them indicated
when it testified in advance to the sufferings destined for Christ and the
glories to follow them.

David:

● Ps 16:10 . . You will not abandon my soul to Sheol, nor let your devout
one see the pit. (cf. Acts 2:25-36)

FAQ: Jesus said at John 6:54 that it's necessary to eat his flesh and drink his
blood in order to obtain eternal life. Well, if there was no such thing as a
communion service until Jesus' last supper, then how did those people back
there eat his flesh and drink his blood?

A: Hook, line, and sinker; if you get my drift.

● John 6:40 . . For this is the will of my Father: that everyone who beholds
the Son and believes in him, may have eternal life; and I myself will raise
him up on the last day.

● John 6:47 . . I tell you the truth, he who believes has everlasting life..
_

 

[Webers_Home]

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● Jer 17:13 . . O Lord . . those who turn away from You will be written in the
dust because they have forsaken The Lord, the spring of living water.

The Hebrew word for "Lord" in that verse is Yehovah (a.k.a. Jehovah). It is
definitely one of the Bible's eureka revelations because the verse shows
that in order for someone to have the living water within them that Jesus spoke
of in John 4:10-14, it is necessary to have Jehovah within them.

Jehovah is there in the person of the Spirit.

● 1Cor 6:19 . . Do you not know that your body is a temple of the holy Spirit
within you, whom you have from God,

Christ too is there in the person of the Spirit.

● 2Cor 13:5 . . Examine yourselves to see whether you are living in faith.
Test yourselves. Do you not realize that Jesus Christ is in you? --unless, of
course, you fail the test.

● Rom 8:9 . . If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not
belong to Christ.

In other words: Christ and Jehovah are housed within the bodies of Jesus'
followers via the Spirit.

● John 7:37-39 . . Jesus stood and cried out, saying: If any man is thirsty,
let him come to me and drink. He who believes in me, as the Scripture said:
From his innermost being shall flow rivers of living water. But this he spoke
of the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive; for the Spirit
was not yet given, because Jesus was not yet glorified.

This is one of the supernatural elements of Christianity that has to be taken
on faith because the presence of the three aspects of The Deity within
someone's body is not readily apparent.
_

 

[Webers_Home]

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● John 7:38 . . He who believes in me, as the Scripture said: From his
innermost being shall flow rivers of living water.

There is no punctuation in the Greek manuscripts. So translators insert
punctuation arbitrarily, at their own discretion, where they think it might do
the most good.

The problem is, the punctuation in the verse above is misleading. There are
no passages anywhere in the Old Testament that say "From his innermost
being shall flow rivers of living water."

However, the verse is still useful if we but relocate the arbitrary punctuation
so that the text reads like this;

"He who believes in me as the Scripture said; from his innermost being shall
flow rivers of living water."

In other words: when people believe in Jesus in accord with what the
Scripture says about him, they get the water. For example:

● Gen 3:15 . . And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and
between your offspring and hers; he will crush your head, and you will strike
his heel.

● Gen 12:1-3 . . The Lord said to Abram . . . in you all the families of the
earth shall be blessed.

● Isa 52:13-15 . . See, my servant will act wisely; he will be raised and lifted
up and highly exalted. Just as there were many who were appalled at him--
his appearance was so disfigured beyond that of any man and his form
marred beyond human likeness-- so shall he sprinkle many nations.

● Isa 53:6 . .We all, like sheep, have gone astray, each of us has turned to
his own way; and The Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all.

● Ps 16:9-10 . . My heart is glad and my tongue rejoices; my body also will
rest secure, because you will not abandon me to sheol, nor will you let your
Holy One see decay.

There's more. The ones above are only a starter list.

● Luke 24:25-27 . . And He said to them: O foolish men and slow of heart to
believe in all that the prophets have spoken! Was it not necessary for the
Christ to suffer these things and to enter into His glory? And beginning with
Moses and with all the prophets, He explained to them the things concerning
Himself in all the Scriptures.
_

 

[justbyfaith]

Personally speaking, I do believe it was the sac of water in the womb. Many think this "born of water" means baptism. There is NOTHING about baptism in those verses.

You are taking an awful chance.

If you are wrong and it is talking about baptism, then you are misleading people into believing that they will be saved when they are not.

I think that real baptism in water is an identification with the name of Jesus Christ and His death, burial, and resurrection.

As such, the following scriptures apply:

Mat 10:32, Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

Luk 12:8, Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:

So then, does baptism save? I would say that it does.

Can we be saved apart from baptism? Only if we can adequately confess Jesus apart from it.

 

[Nancy]

You are taking an awful chance.

If you are wrong and it is talking about baptism, then you are misleading people into believing that they will be saved when they are not.

I think that real baptism in water is an identification with the name of Jesus Christ and His death, burial, and resurrection.

As such, the following scriptures apply:

Mat 10:32, Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

Luk 12:8, Also I say unto you, Whosoever shall confess me before men, him shall the Son of man also confess before the angels of God:

So then, does baptism save? I would say that it does.

Can we be saved apart from baptism? Only if we can adequately confess Jesus apart from it.

"Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? He cannot enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born, can he?” Jesus answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’ The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit.” (3:4–8)

Well, first off JBF, I do not teach, am def. NOT a teacher, this is what I glean personally from these scriptures. I always thought it was talking about "water" baptism too, yet...there is nothing at all in this verse that even mentions baptism with water. Why would Jesus go on to speak about being "born of the flesh" if he was not talking about our natural (flesh) birth? JMHO
If water baptism were necessary for our salvation, why did Jesus not baptize? I see water baptism as a physical outward confession speaking to a Spiritual renewal. I believe we are saved by grace, through faith in Jesus Christ. Only He can save...Again, this is NOT something I "teach", it is what I see and understand as God has given me the ability. There are also many different definitions of "baptism" in the N.T.

 

[justbyfaith]

Jesus had His disciples do the baptizing (John 4:1-2); and it was the same with Paul (compare 1 Corinthians 1:13-17 to Acts 18:8; understanding that the first scripture is written to those in Corinth).

 

[Webers_Home]

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I sincerely believe that Jesus Christ is a man of integrity who would never
knowingly mislead people. In point of fact, I'm convinced that that
everything he taught originated with God, whom I also sincerely believe to
be a person of integrity who would never knowingly mislead people.

● John 3:34 . . For he is sent by God. He speaks God's words, for God's
Spirit is upon him without measure or limit

● John 8:26 . .He that sent me is true; and I speak to the world those things
which I have heard of Him.

● John 8:28 . . I do nothing on my own initiative, but I speak these things as
the Father taught me.

● John 12:49 . . I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me,
he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.

Jesus instructed the Samarian woman that she could have the living water
merely by asking him for it. I've done that.

Jesus instructed his countrymen that whoever believes in him would be
given to drink of the Spirit within the very core of their being if all they did
was approach him for it. I've done that too.

So if John 4:10-14 is true and reliable, and if John 7:37-39 is true and
reliable; then I have successfully obtained the living water, and I have also
successfully obtained the Spirit within the very core of my being.

The steps I took to successfully obtain the living water and the Spirit, were
essential components of my baptism into Jesus' body.

● 1Cor 12:13 . .We were all baptized by one Spirit into one body-- whether
Jews or Greeks, slave or free --and we were all given the one Spirit to drink.

The awful irony of the standard Christian baptism is that not everyone who
undergoes it will make it to safety when they pass on; and that's because
they failed to obtain the Spirit and the living water about which Jesus spoke
in John 4:10-14 and John 7:37-39.

NOTE: It's risky to depend upon the standard Christian baptism for obtaining
the Spirit and the living water; no, play it safe and speak up for them as
Jesus instructed.

● John 6:37 . . Everything that the Father gives me will come to me, and I
will not reject anyone who comes to me

● Rom 10:13 . . Everyone who calls on the name of The Lord will be saved.
_