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The Wonders of the kingdom of God.

Discussion in 'Christian Spirituality Forum' started by Episkopos, Jul 25, 2019.

  1. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    What comes to mind is sitting on the fence as to be able to enjoy the pleasures of sin here and still expect to receive the good promises of God in some hereafter. Many people I guess believe that a real follower of Christ now [one who really strives to imitate His life style now] cannot enjoy what they want to enjoy in this world while serving God like that... so then we have this alternative [OSAS] that allows for the best of both worlds. Many who hold such a view will likely be seen by God as lukewarm and something to spit out.

    Help all of us who love you in any measure, Lord, to be always hot rather than lukewarm as we walk with you in Spirit and in Truth!
    Even to simply encourage and edify can at times be a challenge to some. Give God the glory in any case! He is worthy no matter what.
     
  2. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Amadeus for bringing back an encouraging word that is without fears of devils. I'm hoping this thread won't be taken over by negativity and people with too much demonic experience and fears.

    Perfect love casts out all fears. And love believes the best...that all things are possible in Christ...not limited to the fearful religiosity of people.
     
  3. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    The wonders of the Kingdom of God...in comparing spiritual with Spirit...how do we define “light”? To see the light of God that went out into the world and they see it not? Ezekiel 28:15-17 describes a “brightness” Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee. [16] By the multitude of thy merchandise they have filled the midst of thee with violence, and thou hast sinned: therefore I will cast thee as profane out of the mountain of God: and I will destroy thee, O covering cherub, from the midst of the stones of fire. [17] Thine heart was lifted up because of thy beauty, thou hast corrupted thy wisdom by reason of thy brightness: I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee.

    “Thine Heart was lifted up because of thy beauty...” again comparing things of the earth with the earthly or comparing spiritual things with spiritual things. What is beauty to God? Beautiful are the feet of those who publish peace.

    What is the light and brightness of Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;


    Revelation 21:23-24 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. [24] And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.


    Isaiah 60:3-4 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. [4] Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at thy side.

    The Gentiles shall come to thy light...King’s to thy rising. Lift up thine eyes ...see them “gathered” to Him? He said who doesn’t gather with Him...scatters.

    Isaiah 62:1-2 For Zion's sake will I not hold my peace, and for Jerusalem's sake I will not rest, until the righteousness thereof go forth as brightness, and the salvation thereof as a lamp that burneth. [2] And the Gentiles shall see thy righteousness, and all kings thy glory: and thou shalt be called by a new name, which the mouth of the Lord shall name.

    To say we have seen a shining light? What light? What shall the Gentiles see of His rightness and the Kings His glory that the world receives not for it has not known or seen His shining light? Comparing earthly things with that of the earth? OR comparing the Spiritual with the Spiritual

    Beauty and light is surely seen but not with natural eyes...see it here:
    Genesis 50:15-21 And when Joseph's brethren saw that their father was dead, they said, Joseph will peradventure hate us, and will certainly requite us all the evil which we did unto him. [16] And they sent a messenger unto Joseph, saying, Thy father did command before he died, saying, [17] So shall ye say unto Joseph, Forgive, I pray thee now, the trespass of thy brethren, and their sin; for they did unto thee evil: and now, we pray thee, forgive the trespass of the servants of the God of thy father. And Joseph wept when they spake unto him. [18] And his brethren also went and fell down before his face; and they said, Behold, we be thy servants. [19] And Joseph said unto them, Fear not: for am I in the place of God? [20] But as for you, ye thought evil against me; but God meant it unto good, to bring to pass, as it is this day, to save much people alive. [21] Now therefore fear ye not: I will nourish you, and your little ones. And he comforted them, and spake kindly unto them.

    Which light are we speaking of seeing shining?2 Corinthians 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.

    The shining of that light offered to all men...the Revelation of Jesus Christ. Matthew 11:28-29 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. [29] Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. [30] For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

    Comfort in Proverbs 4:17-20
    [17] For they eat the bread of wickedness, and drink the wine of violence. [18] But the path of the just is as the shining light, that shineth more and more unto the perfect day. [19] The way of the wicked is as darkness: they know not at what they stumble. [20] My son, attend to my words; incline thine ear unto my sayings.

    John 6:33-35
    [33] For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life unto the world. [34] Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread. [35] And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
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  4. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello @Episkopos

    I can see that you believe that the best line of defence is attack. :)

    May the Lord give you understanding, for His Name and glory's sake.
    In Christ Jesus
    Chirs
     
  5. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    Yes, the Light we can see today is and should be brighter than it was yesterday... but is this all there is? There is a then!

    "For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor 13:12

    Isaiah tells us about that then here:

    "Moreover the light of the moon shall be as the light of the sun, and the light of the sun shall be sevenfold, as the light of seven days, in the day that the LORD bindeth up the breach of his people, and healeth the stroke of their wound." Isaiah 30:26
     
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  6. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    understand why the pimps and hoes are beating you into the kingdom?
    not disagreeing, but "then" as in "when you were a little kid" also fits in there imo?
     
  7. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    That "little child (kid)" is a necessity for the order of march. Numbers chapter 10 shows us the order of march for the children of Israel in the wilderness. Each person stayed with his/her family and each family stayed with their tribe. Each tribe had its assigned place. The Leader was the pillar of cloud by day and of fire by night. Our "rules" for moving toward the Light are simpler but more complex. If we don't continuously come as a "little kid" we will never be able to get in really close. We likely could not to make to end with Him at all. No then! Yes, the "kid" fits and is important, even essential as I see it.
     
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  8. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Speaking of understanding...:)

    The Lord tells us that we should not judge by appearances or by what things seem like. And that includes what things look like in writing. You adding your fears...unfounded fears ...to this thread has not followed the OP and is more like trolling and derailing. It is very immature. We don't need people's feelings and impressions when discussing the things of God. This is about the truth.

    So I tend to defend the OP against trolls. Some people might actually be encouraged by what is written, after all. What is not needed is fear mongering. If you have fears...go to God with them. Or use the PM. Unless you are led to speak a non-speculative message from God. (PM'ing is still better at the outset). If you want consideration for your ideas...then don't put them up in public....go private first.

    Go to God with your fears and ask Him to confirm or deny those fears. Really you should seek to work those things out. They hinder your growth.

    I wish you well ...
     
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  9. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    What gets me about the misguided ones is that they will go through the entire bible to find one verse that supports their position...a happy verse...and then ignore ALL the other verses that contradict their position. (that are verses of warning)

    Or...

    As in my reference to being in the light....or the truth in any depth...these will find the one verse that is negative (a warning verse) and then cancel out all the good verses that support the truth that they don't understand.

    So it is the world upside down. We are dealing in opposites. Those who can't see the dialectical duality of the truth seem to always get the wrong end of the stick.

    It is quite amazing. :cool:
     
  10. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    From what I read and understand is that, in the state we are now in (flesh and blood) we are also dwelt inward by the Holy Spirit and do not sin when we are walking in His Spirit. But, are we always, 100% of the time, without question-every nano second walking in the Spirit? Can anybody honestly answer yes to that question? I cannot. I get impatient, angry, can have nasty arguments in my own mind with someone who is not even there, because there was no closure where that person and I parted ways. I'm am not as diligent as I need to be in prayer and study. And, to me, all of that is sinning, falling short, grieving the Spirit - I do not say it is sinning for others, only myself.

    I see His Spirit using natural means to bless us in this "birthday" suit, and He blesses with faith, strength, grace etc., in His Spirit as He sees fit. He sure has with me, in amazing ways! I also say that until He takes us home, we will constantly be fighting against our own flesh nature, Satan and the lures of this present world and, if someone continues to seek Him daily, there should be less and less battles lost...we already know the victory has been won, Bless His Name!! I see us as Soldiers of the Cross and to never, ever let down our guard - the Armor of God- (I Always thought that "Joy" should be a part of the Armor listed in Eph.) - should be worn all the time, every second! I have to believe that we do not enter into His Kingdom while in these perishable, corruptible bodies but only when we put on the incorruptible, immortal (new glorious bodies) once we have finished the race set before us. I always thought that God's will was to be fulfilled on this earth as it is in Heaven before His Kingdom would come? Jesus said to seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness- is not renewing our minds what transforms the heart- so that we are able to live as God wants us to, seeking His Kingdom? And, what does "The Kingdom of God lives within you" mean, really? I have heard some Greek translations as meaning "within your midst".
    Anyhow, His word lives, and His Spirit (which dwells within us) moves through The Word, and us, if we are yielding to Him.

    14 “Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. 2 In My Father’s house are many Mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. 3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also. 4 And where I go you know, and the way you know.”

    1 Corinthians 2:9
    9 But as it is written:
    “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
    Nor have entered into the heart of man
    The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”

    So, right here tells me that "flesh and blood" will never enter into His Kingdom.


    1 Corinthians 15:49-50
    "49 And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so also shall we bear the likeness of the heavenly man. 50 Now I declare to you, brothers,
    that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable."
    1 Corinthians 15;53 "For this corruptible must put on in corruption, and this mortal must put on immortality."


    What would we have left to hope for if we can be there now, IRL?
     
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  11. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    We have the Spirit dwelling in us...but walking INSIDE the Spirit is not so easy. Walking IN Him....is far from easy...since one enters in through that narrow door whereby all things must be first forsaken in this life. It takes a spiritual translating (rapture) into the abiding place in Zion to walk in that kind of power. So this is very rare in our day...because of bad teaching.

    So then we are walking now with a heavenly witness inside our spirits (Nechamah)...and we can seek to be led by the Spirit by turning our hearts to God...which again is still not walking IN the Spirit. So there are different proximities to following Christ...We go from faith to Faith and glory to Glory. So there is something to run that race towards. :)

    I don't believe that you grieve the Spirit unless you are resisting the Spirit. That is going out of your way to do harm to the Spiritual progress in others....or seeking to avoid God and His training. This could also be called frustrating the grace of God.

    The Hebrew connotations of "bekirbechem" is "in your midst." But this still means that God is among us. Immanu-el means God with us after all.

    However, there are other indicators in the OT as well as the NT that state that His life is also INSIDE us. As in the law of...a life IN a life in Deuteronomy.

    Peace sister... <><
     
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  12. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    All I can say is that, I know when I'm walking in the Spirit, as Love, Joy, Peace, Long-suffering etc. are present and, I know when I am not walking so close, and that can have to do with my attitude. God sure does have His work cut out for me, Ha! But as long as I see progress, I am peaceful and ever more hungry for Him ♥ During these times, I cannot be more joyful. Then the valleys come, and I do know that is when God mostly wants us to reach out to Him, and in my own experience when I am so down, all I CAN do is go in the other direction..up. I liken it to a plant that is over due for a watering, once it is finally watered, it comes alive within an hour! Sorry Epi, I love you brother and I do agree with much you say yet, there is that "more" and "higher" thing I am having a tough time relating to. We are actually running towards a prize that "eye has not seen, nor ear heard the things God has prepared for those who love Him". So, that is where I have landed on this subject and, cannot go any further unless I see it through His Word or some kind of eye opening and, since my prayer is ever "open my eyes" show me my heart" purge all that is not of you from me" "help my weariness in well doing" "Give me your wisdom Lord to make proper choices" Hear my heart, grow me Lord and give me opportunities to glorify YOU through my actions, words and treatment of all others...so on and so forth :)
     
  13. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    Indeed! And when we love perfectly, there is no need to fear, for we will be walking, in all things, in our Father's will.


    Father, help us to love just a little more, every day,
    Every day forming us more into the likeness of your Son, our Lord, Jesus Christ.

    For this we pray..
     
  14. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Nancy, don’t stop there with “Eye has not seen, nor ear heard the things God has prepared for those who love Him.” I always stopped there also but read on
    1 Corinthians 2:9-13 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. [10] But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. [11] For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. [12] Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. [13] Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Spirit teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

    “...neither has entered into the heart of man, the things prepared for them that love Him.” Galatians 4:6-7 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father. [7] Wherefore thou art no more a servant, but a son; and if a son, then an heir of God through Christ.

    Luke 8:8
    [8] And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

    He chooses when to reveal. Remember
    Luke 24:15-21 And it came to pass, that, while they communed together and reasoned, Jesus himself drew near, and went with them. [16] But their eyes were holden that they should not know him. [17] And he said unto them, What manner of communications are these that ye have one to another, as ye walk, and are sad? [18] And the one of them, whose name was Cleopas, answering said unto him, Art thou only a stranger in Jerusalem, and hast not known the things which are come to pass there in these days? [19] And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: [20] And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. [21] But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

    Luke 24:27-32
    [27] And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. [28] And they drew nigh unto the village, whither they went: and he made as though he would have gone further. [29] But they constrained him, saying, Abide with us: for it is toward evening, and the day is far spent. And he went in to tarry with them. [30] And it came to pass, as he sat at meat with them, he took bread, and blessed it, and brake, and gave to them. [31] And their eyes were opened, and they knew him; and he vanished out of their sight. [32] And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?

    It is He who opens the scripture.

    Luke 24:44-45
    [44] And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. [45] Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

    Even going further in He “opens their understanding,...”

    Eye has seen, ear has heard, it has entered into the heart of man, the things which God has prepared for them that love him. God has revealed them by his Spirit.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2019
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  15. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    The miraculous walk in the Spirit produces well.....miracles. It is a very high walk that is fashioned to be exactly like Jesus walked.

    Jesus walked IN the Father and the Father was IN Jesus doing His works. As such there were 2 points of reference so that Jesus could see into heaven and also FROM heaven through His abiding in the Father. IOW when we are in 2 places at once we tend to see things very differently. A much broader scope. Of course this is a miraculous state of affairs. How can someone be in 2 places at once? But unless we are abiding in heaven....how can God do His works through us?

    Think of this other dimension as an anointing. When we are anointed with His Spirit we see into the Spirit (actually from and through the Spirit)....thus we are given spiritual faculties. We don't have to understand how abiding works necessarily...if we are walking in that anointing power. So then walking in heavenly places (or seated as Paul puts it) in Christ is to be anointed into the spiritual walk of holiness on earth.

    One place is superimposed on the other in the Spirit. It is seeing into Zion through this world. In the Spirit we see THROUGH this world into the dimension of the kingdom of God. This is what I experienced in the Spirit.


    And this is the spiritual walk...to walk in 2 places at once....seeing beyond sight....here and where God is in Zion...whereas a carnal man only walks on earth. A carnal man only sees as a human sees...in one place....where his carnal faculties are. But a spiritual man sees from 2 different places ...from here AND from being seated in heavenly places. Notice this...

    John 14: 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me? The words I say to you, I do not speak on My own. Instead, it is the Father dwelling in Me, performing His works. 11 Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father is in Me or at least believe on account of the works themselves. 12 Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever believes in (into or to) Me will also do the works that I am doing. He will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.…

    Since believing into (or TO) Jesus takes us to the Father...because Jesus is already with the Father...we can then do the same works as He did. We have the same connection to God that Jesus had when He walked on this earth because He is with the Father. So as we abide in Christ (and He in us ) by believing INTO (to) Him we are abiding where Jesus is with the Father. When we abide in Jesus we also have the Father seeing they are together in one place. (Zion)

    The proof of this walk is that we walk exactly as Jesus did...and as Jesus promised we would by believing into Him. He is doing His miraculous works through us in that abiding. Is this the experience of modern Christians? Is this a modern doctrine? But this is the doctrine of Jesus.

    But how many people in our day actually listen to Jesus anymore?

    If people don't take the words of Jesus seriously I expect that what I'm saying will not be heeded either.

    What Jesus doesn't say is...if Jesus is in your heart you will connected to the Father. Of course this is necessary. But it is only as we ALSO abide INTO Jesus by believing INTO Him that we are also present WHERE He is.

    That is the spiritual polarity that affords us a walk in the Spirit and produces the works of a person directly connected to God.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019
  16. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    This is the high calling in Christ....to be where He is. To follow Him there and then to follow Him FROM there. Jesus promised us....

    John 12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honour.

    "Where I am?" Where was Jesus....in Judea? (carnal reasoning) Or was He walking in the Spirit in Zion? (spiritual reasoning)

    So when we follow Jesus where He is then we can serve Him there. In the wonders of the kingdom of God. :)

    Jesus did not say...where I will be. This was not a future place that Jesus was going to that He was referencing. No, He was taking about HOW and WHERE He was walking from right then.

    Of course He going to the Father would make that promise even more clear to us as to what He meant. If Jesus is with the Father NOW then we can be with the Father through Him. So that IN Him we have both the Father and the Son. This is so far beyond the current religious grasping of modern believism.

    Jesus needed to go to the Father in order to secure that connection from us to Him..as we believe to (into) Jesus. So we gain both Father and Son by believing into Jesus.

    Why have we not been challenged to walk where Jesus is in our day? Well, it certainly isn't taught...and the devil controls the information. So you will never hear this from the established order. But how can people believe in something they have never heard about? It will come from a voice in the wilderness.

    But that doesn't mean we are justified in not hearing the words of the Lord....the words that bring life.

    If we must we should go out into the wilderness to find the words of the Lord...of which there is a present famine in the land.

    So just as the family of Israel moved away from where there was a famine of bread...so must we also move away from where there is a famine of hearing the words of the Lord.

    But I will say no more than that. I think I already lost almost everybody. Can this situation be remedied? Maybe like a camel going through the eye of a needle perhaps?
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019
  17. bbyrd009

    bbyrd009 Groper

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    I assure you, you will not run out of towns in Israel before I come
    hmm. Imo you have come to a false conclusion here wadr, and are now directly contradicting the Writing? Adam is not Ish i guess
     
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  18. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    This all sounds so grand and lofty. Since I'm pretty "simple" minded, it kinda makes me feel un-saved? Am I not praying or studying hard enough? Am I too practical? Since I am pretty practical, maybe God will not trust me with this higher walk? And, how does one actually "do it"? Ahhh! This is so over my head Epi. But, even if I cannot reach that level, even if I'm not saved, I will worship Him as the only true God, and continue to give Him thanks always as, He IS my provider and gives me good things. I'll also continue to serve my community how ever I can as, He sure did bring me to a place where I see them very differently than ever before, and I feel for their plight. So, this is some of the reasons I have not been very active in this thread...don't know what to say yea or nay about. What do you see when you look into heaven? What do you see when looking from heaven to the earth? Yeah, I'm lost in space :oops: just a flailing and looking for Him all the time (in my mind, that is, lol). Perhaps He only chooses certain people, like in the OT to be able to see these things, experience them? Now, even though I walked away from all of my friends and the life I lived for decades, there has to still be carnality in me as, He has not at all given me any experience like this. I will plod along and fight the good fight yet, it's hard to imagine me becoming some spiritual giant! Lol!.
    xo
     
  19. Episkopos

    Episkopos Well-Known Member

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    Hey Nancy! At this level we are not talking about just salvation...but glory! :)

    There are not many of us cut out for this...but it is wise to acknowledge the power of the gospel rather than reduce it to what the modern doctrines teach. God is offended at what we have done to the truth. We have done violence to the truth.

    So I don't know if I measure up either. But I will not stop honouring God and speaking those things He has shown me.

    But I think that high calling is for "all who will"...it depends on our seeking and wanting that much of God. I'm here to say...this is how much is actually available to us...right NOW! :)

    We need to encourage one another to seek the Lord for these things. To never give up as long as we are here. To wait on the Lord, always seeking, asking, and knocking until the doors of heaven swing open.

    I have walked in that place twice. Once for a short time...3 days...and the other for like 2 years or a little more. So I know the walk. But I also know how hard it is to get there. God has to show mercy to us and allow us to have that level of walk AND responsibility. I figure He let me in based on the lack of other choices! ;)

    This is God we are talking about...so of course it is going to be grand. The problem is the modern believism stance that is offended with anything they don't already have in their spoiled hands.

    We can look to God and wait for Him...as He wants to reveal Himself...and not how religious men want to portray Him..

    Blessings to you sister. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2019
  20. Nancy

    Nancy Well-Known Member

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    This gal would like nothing better than to experience what you have. I will never stop seeking Him every moment, I'm just not there yet, thought I was doing well and now I'm not so sure I am. Think I'm gonna take the fuzz balls to the park for a bit to get them exercised and get some quiet prayer time in. Then come back home and seek Him for as long and fervently as I am able; maybe He will open a door? :)
     
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2019
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