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Featured 'The Word was make flesh' - 'and dwelt among us'

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by charity, Dec 27, 2020.

  1. charity

    charity Well-Known Member

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    Hello there,

    Considering December the 25th and the use made of it by Christendom to celebrate the birth of the Lord Jesus Christ, the wonderful fact that He was actually born on the first day of the Feast of Tabernacles, and the significance of that, is lost to the majority of believers.

    December the 25th (as I understand it) is celebratory of the fact that 'The Word was made flesh', in Mary's womb, as announced by the angel Gabriel (Luke 1:26-38 & Matthew 1:18-25). He had yet to actually be born, thereby 'tabernacle' ie., 'dwell among us', nine months later, on September 28th of the following year (Luke 2:1-21). Both events are momentous, and need separate consideration to fully appreciate their depth.

    'And the Word was made flesh,
    and dwelt among us,
    (2 separate events)
    (and we beheld His glory,
    the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,)
    full of grace and truth.'

    (John 1:14)

    By not acknowledging the fact that the Lord Jesus Christ was born on the first day of the feast of Tabernacles (Leviticus 23:33-44), I believe we are missing out on the full significance of this fact. That significance is one that I cannot share, because I do not yet fully understand it myself, so am reluctant to put my thoughts down without having fully considered the feast of tabernacles and it's significance as one of the Old Testament types and shadows of Christ. However, I think of the word Immanuel, which means 'God with us', and that alone is mind blowing.

    If you do understand the significance of this fact yourself, please share your knowledge with me.

    Thank you
    In Christ Jesus
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2020
  2. Base12

    Base12 Well-Known Member

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    I really think you are on to something here Charity. The fact that we could celebrate Christmas, and not feel guilty about any associations to past Pagan rituals, would definitely be a good thing in my opinion.

    You may have seen my posts on this, but I will share them here just in case.

    The Tabernacle in the Wilderness was a picture of a Biological Cell. More specifically, it was a picture of a Zygote.

    The High Priest represents Abraham's Seed that enters into the Most Holy Place to fertilize the Ovum...

    [​IMG]

    Officially, this is the Day of Atonement or Yom Kippur. Five days later is the Feast of Tabernacles.

    This begs the question...

    If these celebrations happen during Autumn, would this then be the official date of Conception?

    If so, then would July be the birth month of Jesus? I did a quick search and found that indeed, there are those that believe Jesus was born in July.
     
  3. DPMartin

    DPMartin Well-Known Member

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    where is the information that verifies the dates you've posted here?
     
  4. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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    Interesting Charity. I don't know anything about the feast of Tabernacles but maybe if there are any Jewish people here they could shed some light on it.
     
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  5. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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    I just discovered that the Fest of Tabernacles is celebrated to in memory of God bringing the Israelites out of the wilderness after forty years.
     
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  6. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, well where are those Jewish scholars at? what was posted is interesting. especially Mary's six months in from her cousin of Elizabeth conception. if the first month was Nisan, (Mar–Apr).

    adding up the month is interesting....

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
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  7. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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    There is more info online.
     
  8. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    post the links, thanks.

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
  9. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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  10. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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  11. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    this is where I'm not seeing the revelation. Mary could not have conceived the child in December, because the time is not adding up. let me explain,
    Luke 1:26 "And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth," Luke 1:27 "To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary."
    now the first month is Nisan, which is (Mar–Apr). now counting from April 6 months, is September, not December. and to be sure of the month, Luke 1:56 "And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house."

    ok, the three months at Elisabeth, establish the six month when Gabriel came to Mary, which make 9 month for Elisabeth, and she delievered John. so knowing that Mary had to be pregnant around Elul, (Aug–Sep) six month into the year. and delievered around about, Iyar, (Apr–May) the next year. and The Feast of Tabernacles takes place on the 15th of the Hebrew month Tishri which is about (Sep–Oct).

    so if December 25th. is his birth day or conception, the months are not adding up. maybe it Me, I'm not correct on the Months, or there is some other significant for these dates. as said let the Jewish/Hebrew scholars enlighten us on this.

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
  12. Pearl

    Pearl Well-Known Member

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  13. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    Your OP is correct....it's a great topic to study.
     
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  14. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    There is no doubt about the Lord in his holy tabernacle, but how it's associated with the feast of tabernacle????
    Come on Jewish/Hebrew scholars.

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
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  15. firstthings1st.

    firstthings1st. Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Sir/101G, Have you read ?

    THAT HEROD DIED IN THE YEAR B.C. 4 = A.U.C. 750, SHORTLY BEFORE THE PASSOVER. This result, at least so far as it relates to the YEAR, is now accepted by most modern scholars" (Schurer, p.465-466). Further, in Philip Schaff's History of the Christian Church, volume 1, concerning the birth of Christ, we read concerning the death of king Herod: "According to Matthew 2:1 (compare Luke 1:5, 26), Christ was born 'in the days of king Herod' I, or the Great, who died, according to Josephus, at Jericho, A.U. 4 750, just before the Passover, being nearly seventy years of age, after a reign of thirty-seven years. This date has been verified by the astronomical calculation of the eclipse of the moon, which took place March 13, A.U. 750, a few days before Herod's death. Allowing two months or more for the events between the birth of Christ and the murder of the innocents by Herod, the Nativity must be put back at least to February or January, A.U. 750 (or B.C. 4), if not earlier" (vol.1, p.112). The Birth of Christ Reconsidered When, then, was Jesus Christ born? The actual day of the birth of Christ is not known for certain, but we can know the approximate time of year when He was born.

    In the book of Luke we read that the father of John the Baptist was Zacharias, and he was a priest who served at the temple in Jerusalem. He was "of the course of Abia" (Luke 1:5). While serving at the temple, he was informed by an angel that his wife was to have a son, who was to be named "John." After this, Zacharias finished "the days of his ministration," and "departed to his own house" (v.23). "And after those days, his wife Elizabeth conceived . . ." (v.24). The names of the different courses of priests that served at the Temple are given in I Chronicles 24:1-19. "Abia" or "Abijah" was the EIGHTH course. According to the Jewish historian Josephus, each one of these courses served at the Temple for one week, the first course serving the first week of Nisan, in the spring (compare I Chron.27:1-2), and then each course in its own order. All the priests served during the annual festivals (Passover in spring, Pentecost, and then Tabernacles in the fall). After six months, the order would be repeated, thus each "course" would serve two weeks during a year. Let's notice the chronology of events. Zacharias, the father of John the Baptist, served in the Temple twice a year, with his course, the course of Abijah (Luke 1:5-7), which was the eighth course (I Chron.24:7-19).

    There were 24 courses in all. Each course served for one week, in succession (except for weeks when annual Festivals fell, when all priests served together). Josephus tells us: "But David being desirous of ordaining his son king of all the people, called together their rulers to Jerusalem, with the priests and the Levites; and having first numbered the Levites . . . He divided them also into courses; and when he had separated the priests from them, he found of these priests twenty-four courses . . . and he ordained that one course should minister to God eight days, from Sabbath to Sabbath. And thus were the courses distributed by lot . . . and that course which came up first, was written down first, and accordingly the second, and so on to the twenty-fourth; and this partition hath remained to this day" (Antiquities, VII, xiv, 7). The course of Abijah, then, would have served the eighth week in the rotation. The eighth week from Nisan 1, leaving out the week of Passover, when all the priests served, would have been IYAR 27 to SIVAN 5, the day just before Pentecost, which generally fell on Sivan 6. The eighth week in the fall rotation would have been CHESHVAN 26 to KISLEV 2. 5 If Zacharias received his angelic message during his first rotation, then, after serving a week in the Temple, Zacharias would have remained another week in Jerusalem, because of the Feast of Shavuot. Then, he would have returned home shortly after this, and his wife then would have conceived.

    This would have been about June. If we add nine months to this date, the normal time for the gestation of a human baby in the womb, John the Baptist would have been born about March, in the spring, shortly before the Passover. But if Zacharias had been serving during his SECOND rotation, in Cheshvan-Kislev, he would have returned home immediately after the service, in early Kislev. Then John the Baptist's birth would have been around August. Jesus was conceived about six months after John (Luke 1:24-31, especially verse 26). This would suggest that Jesus Christ was conceived either about Kishlev in the winter, or Sivan in the spring. Nine months from Kislev (approximately December) would place His birth about the middle of September. Nine months from Sivan would place His birth in SHEVAT (corresponding to February!). The first course began serving the first week in Nisan. After six months, the order of courses would be repeated, beginning the first week in Tishri. Thus Zacharias served approximately the first week in June, and six months later, the first week in December. Shortly after he served his assigned duties, his wife conceived (Luke 1:5-13, 23-24). Nine months later John was born.

    So if we add 9 months to these dates, we find that John was either born in around February, or August-September. Jesus Christ was born six months after John (Luke 1:26, 36). Thus Christ could have been born either around August-September, or around February! -- just the opposite from John! Was Christ born around February, or September? How can we know? Crucial Events Surrounding Christ's Birth We know that when Christ was born, He was born in a manger in Bethlehem. Shepherds, told by an angel of His birth, visited Him and found Him "wrapped in swaddling clothes, lying in a manger" (Luke 2:12-17). Eight days later Mary and Joseph had Him circumcised, according to the commandment (Luke 2:21). Mary then fulfilled the days of her purification -- which culminated 40 days after His birth (Luke 2:22-24; compare Lev.12:2-8). Joseph and Mary were obviously poor, for the offering they offered at this time was a pair of turtledoves or two young pigeons (Luke 2:24; Lev.12:8).


    Sometime not too long after His birth, the wise men visited Him, and gave Him gifts (Matt.2:1-11). When they arrived, they found him as a "young child" (Matt.2:9, 11). He was no longer a swaddling baby, but now a "young child." The Greek word translated "young child" is paidiske and means "an infant or by extension, a half grown boy or girl." Thayer's GreekEnglish Lexicon shows it can refer to a young infant recently born, a more advanced child, or even a mature child or partly grown children. The chronology of Christ's birth, however, shows the family of Joseph was no longer in a manger when the wise men visited them --for we read, "when they were come into the house, they saw the young child" (Matt.2:11). Their visit could have been around 30 days after His birth, or sometime before the time of 6 His being taken to the Temple, 40 days after His birth! Immediately after this visit, and the Temple visit, Joseph was warned to take the child and Mary, and to "flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child, to destroy him" (Matt.2:13). "When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt: and was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son" (Matt.2:13-15).

    Meanwhile, sickly, old Herod, seeing the wise men had ignored his command to return to him after they found the child, became enraged, and had every child in Bethlehem killed up to two years of age, "according to the time which he had diligently inquired of the wise men" (v.16). Shepherds WERE in the Fields in WINTER! What does this chronology of events tell us of the birth of Christ? For years, many of us have assumed and believed that Christ was born in the autumn of the year. The major proof offered for this was that shepherds were abiding in the fields when He was born, and several ancient authorities tell us that shepherds did not abide in the fields during the winter time. This of course ruled out a "Christmas" birth! Since there were shepherds abiding in the fields by night when He was born (Luke 2:8), we assumed that this ruled out any birth from the months of November through February. This seemed conclusive evidence for a fall birth. Supporting this view is a comment by Werner Keller in

    The Bible As History, who quotes a remark in the Jewish Talmud which says in effect that "in that neighborhood the flocks were put out to grass in March and brought in again at the beginning of November. They remained out in the open for almost eight months" (p.332). Since the shepherds were "abiding in the fields by night" when Christ was born, therefore, His birth had to occur between March and September. However, Herod died shortly before Passover in B.C.4. Before his death, he had hundreds of infants slain in Bethlehem. During the last few months of his life, he was desperately ill, and abode at a hot springs near the Dead Sea, and otherwise in Jericho, just north of the Dead Sea -- not at Jerusalem. Furthermore, when the wise men visited him, he was still at Jerusalem (Matt.2:1-3). He was troubled by what the wise men told him, "and all Jerusalem with him" (v.3). This visit, therefore, occurred sometime after the birth of Christ -- probably about 30 to 40 days afterward. At the very least, this would push the birth of Christ back to at least the middle of February. Could Christ have been born in February?


    Love, Walter
     
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  16. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Spiritual Warrior Staff Member

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    That's what I was told...
     
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  17. firstthings1st.

    firstthings1st. Well-Known Member Staff Member

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  18. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    @Walter, thanks for the reply, so lets take this one step at a time.

    but according to the bible, the angel Gabriel came to Mary in Luke 1:26 "And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth," this is six month into the year, in Elul, (Aug–Sep). now you calculate John's birth around, "But if Zacharias had been serving during his SECOND rotation, in Cheshvan-Kislev, he would have returned home immediately after the service, in early Kislev. Then John the Baptist's birth would have been around August".

    I cannot buy that, because Gabriel said this, Luke 1:36 "And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren." so if Elisabeth is already six month in her pregnancy, and add three more to get nine month that would be in the Month of Kislev, which is (Nov–Dec). because Elisabeth delievered three month when Mary came to see her, supportive scripture, Luke 1:56 "And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house." Luke 1:57 "Now Elisabeth's full time came that she should be delivered; and she brought forth a son." now six months plus three months equal NINE months. and the bible said... "FULL" term. and by Gabriel mouth from God said that cousin Elisabeth was six month already in, and the three with Mary makes nine month, as said is the month Kislev, which is (Nov–Dec).

    so please respond to that, is I'm correct or not?. and then we can go on to the next step. now that's bible. so if this is true, then rotation of the priest is not accurate.

    will be looking to hear from you.

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2020
  19. firstthings1st.

    firstthings1st. Well-Known Member Staff Member

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    Amen to the above post about Nov-Dec, but about, I cannot buy that,
    Sir, did you read the whole article ?
    In the article He said:

    If Zacharias received his angelic message during his first rotation, then, after serving a week in the Temple, Zacharias would have remained another week in Jerusalem, because of the Feast of Shavuot. Then, he would have returned home shortly after this, and his wife then would have conceived. This would have been about June.

    If we add nine months to this date, the normal time for the gestation of a human baby in the womb, John the Baptist would have been born about March, in the spring, shortly before the Passover. But if Zacharias had been serving during his SECOND rotation, in Cheshvan-Kislev, he would have returned home immediately after the service, in early Kislev. Then John the Baptist's birth would have been around August.

    Walter
     
  20. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

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    First thanks for the reply, second , still cannot buy that , because #1. Elisabeth was already pregnant six moth when the angel Gabriel came to Mary.
    now, Luke 1:36 "And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also conceived a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren." and the angel Gabriel spoke these word in the Sixth month, listen, Luke 1:26 "And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth," now are you saying that the angel Gabriel got it wrong when he was sent by God? if so, then you're saying God don't know what time of the year it is. well, I believe the bible.

    now you states, "If Zacharias received his angelic message during his first rotation". well are you sure when that rotation took place?.
    because you said, "The course of Abijah, then, would have served the eighth week in the rotation. The eighth week from Nisan 1"
    well Nisan is the first month of the YEAR, which is (Mar-Apr). now you do the Math.

    PICJAG
    101G The "Spiritual Saboteur"
     
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