1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

The Works Based Salvation - Whats the big deal?

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by rockytopva, Jul 7, 2019.

  1. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member Encounter Team

    Messages:
    3,379
    Likes Received:
    434
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Most churches I hang around are not into what they call a works based salvation and generally frown on such an idea. But, to my annoyance....

    1. Nobody wants to pray
    2. There are no more revivals
    3. Hard to find good musicians
    4. Hard to organize youth activities
    5. Church attendance is sporadic

    Some of these folks end up leaving their spouses for greener pastures. And end up being very much unprofitable and uncommitted people. I think at least a little stress of good works is a good thing!
     
  2. Windmillcharge

    Windmillcharge Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,248
    Likes Received:
    720
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United Kingdom
    Depends why one is doing works?

    If it is to earn ones salvation then that is imposible.

    If it is to show ones love for Jesus and ones neighbours then it is being an obedient Christian.

    May I suggest two things.
    To challenge the preachers of the churches you 'hang around' how do you encourage obedience to Jesus's command to obey him. John15:21 Whoever has my commands and keeps them is the one who loves me.?

    Find a church that preaches and practises this.
     
    atpollard likes this.
  3. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    5,850
    Likes Received:
    3,974
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    The title of the thread does not reflect what the OP is saying -- that salvation should result in good works and righteous living.
     
    Reggie Belafonte and rockytopva like this.
  4. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,456
    Likes Received:
    2,374
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Yep. And despite all the excuses, this is why today's church is a Lukewarm church; a church that runs around telling herself how spiritually rich she is when in reality she is wretched, miserable, poor, blind and naked. She can keep kidding herself if she wants to and making excuses. The Lord sees right through it (Revelation 3:17), and thank God a time of judgment is eventually going to come to the modern church (Revelation 3:19); a time of rebuke and discipline, as took place all the time in the early church.

    This is something the wise long for. Thanks for the thread, RockyTop. Gonna go renew my prayers for all the above to come sooner rather than later.
     
  5. Ernest T. Bass

    Ernest T. Bass Active Member

    Messages:
    454
    Likes Received:
    110
    I believe those who use the term "works based" are trying to imply that if one does any kind of work at all he is attempting to earn his salvation. Seems most everyone on this forum understands eternal life is a free gift, therefore it cannot be earned. Eternal life is not an UNconditional gift, there are certain conditions God has placed upon receiving this free gift as belief John 8:24; repentance Luke 13:5 confession Matthew 10:32-33 and baptism Mark 16:16. Therefore meeting conditions do not earn the free gift.

    I was just recently reading an article where the author of the article had been listening to a 'preacher'. This preacher was teaching against the Bible's requirement of water baptism, giving the usual strawman arguments. He claimed if baptism is necessary then one is working to earn salvation. Yet ironically at the end of his little speech he offered booklets, brochures that were absolutely free. If you wanted one of his FREE booklets just send him your name and address and he would get one of these FREE booklets to you. According to his own 'logic' those booklets cannot be free if you had to do the work in sending him your name and address. You would be attempting to earn his booklets by working in submitting your name and address.

    Yet he could understand that getting one of his FREE booklets required the condition of you sending him your name and address, yet the booklet was still FREE, you just have to meet the condition he placed upon his free gift. But ironically he refuses to apply that same logic to the Bible, that when one submits to baptism he is simply meeting a condition God has placed upon His free gift of salvation. And that you submitting to water baptism no more earns God's offer of a free gift than you submitting your name and address to him earns the free gift he offered.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2019
    Reggie Belafonte likes this.
  6. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,299
    Likes Received:
    2,224
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    It's the things they call works that confuse me. Since when is abiding (continuing in trust) a work??

    It's all by Gods kindness and mercy, but THROUGH trust. (By grace through faith). But they want to say if you fall away from trust, then you never trusted to begin with, Or you didn't have a trust unto saving.

    But Israel in the desert shows this isn't so. They trusted unto saving through the sea but then later didn't continue in that trust regarding temporal provision and so did not get to enter into what God had prepared for them.

    So from even way back then, God wanted trust and He let those who continued in trust enter in.

    And yet, continuing in trust and striving to trust more and more has now become an evil thing to do. Nowadays, if you struggle to keep trusting, they say you have fallen from Gods kindness and mercy.

    It's quite bizarre...
     
    faithfulness and Episkopos like this.
  7. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,456
    Likes Received:
    2,374
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I use a different argument as regards God's grace potentially being rescinded through various sins such as denying Him, taking the mark etc. But when it comes to open rebellion against the ordinances of the church, this is a decent one to use.
     
  8. Hidden In Him

    Hidden In Him Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,456
    Likes Received:
    2,374
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Exactly. I usually ask, when is refusing to deny Christ or refusing to take the mark a "work." I know what they are saying, but these do not constitute works. They simply amount to not doing things that make one unworthy of the grace that was bestowed us.
    It's also incredibly unscriptural. Peter taught that believers were to reinforce their faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, meekness, temperance, brotherly kindness, love etc. If not, the believer stands in danger of forgetting the cleansing of his or her sins in times past. This is because if believers never see the Holy Spirit actually manifesting the fruit of the Spirit through them, their conscience will eventually begin questioning whether the "faith" they are walking in is actually a real one or not. They begin to wonder if it's just something they're trying to convince themselves of in their head.
     
  9. rockytopva

    rockytopva Well-Known Member Encounter Team

    Messages:
    3,379
    Likes Received:
    434
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Sad to say many professing Christians believe you don't get to heaven by doing good works....and they are determined to prove it!!!
     
    amadeus, faithfulness and Episkopos like this.
  10. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,299
    Likes Received:
    2,224
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I think some men just attribute good works to God, because they only came to those good works through trusting God. So since they know it all came about through trusting Him, they try to point out that the way they got to wherever they are was through trust.

    But some men are just tossing doctrine around but without having really walked with God. Still, others know they have really only trusted God and He has done everything other than that, which in turn grows their trust. At some point, they have said, I'm not doing this, it is God, because I am not this good or loving.
     
    faithfulness and Episkopos like this.
  11. Reggie Belafonte

    Reggie Belafonte Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,331
    Likes Received:
    350
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Australia
    Jesus said that he wanted servitude.
    You must serve the Lord Jesus with your whole being first and foremost in your life.
    Jesus Christ is the King of Israel (Servants of God) it's him you must serve as you live in him and breath. nothing outside of him shall take your attention, in such as to tempt your Soul with the nonsense of this world.
     
Loading...