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TheGreat Day of the Lord is Near

Discussion in 'Eschatology & Prophecy Forum' started by keras, Aug 10, 2014.

  1. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

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    Zephaniah 1:14-18 The great Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath is near,1 very near and coming quickly. Listen for the sound of that Day! 2 When it comes, even brave warriors will panic and be terrified.
    That Day will be a Day of great fury, a Day of distress and torment, a Day of destruction and devastation, a Day of darkness and gloom, a Day of clouds and thick blackness, a Day of the shofar battle call against the fortifications and upon all military strength
    .3
    Because the peoples have sinned against the Lord, He will bring a shocking disaster to all in the holy Land. Their blood will be poured out like dust and their entrails like dung. Their strength and riches will not save them on the Day of the Lord’s fiery wrath, the whole Land will be burnt and devastated. For He will make an end, a horrible end of all who live in the holy Land.4
    Isaiah 13:9-13 Here comes the Day of the Lord’s wrath – a Day full of fury and the outpoured wrath of the Lord. The whole earth will be devastated and all the unrighteous people will be destroyed.5
    On that Day, you will not have any light from the sun, the moon, or the stars.6 The sky will tremble and shudder, the earth will be shaken from its place.7
    The Lord will punish the world for its evil and the wicked peoples for their iniquity. He will end the arrogance of the proud and humble the pride of the leaders.
    On that Day, humans will become scarce, they will be as rare as fine gold after the Lord’s Day of blazing anger.
    8

    Isaiah 24:1-13 Be warned, the Lord is about to strip the earth, ruin it and devastate it. All its inhabitants, without exception, will be severely affected.9 For the Lord has spoken this Word: The whole world is defiled by its peoples, they have changed the Laws, ignored the statutes and broken the everlasting Covenant. Therefore, My curse will consume the earth and its inhabitants will suffer punishment. They are burned up and very few will be left.10 There will no longer be revelry and partying, the sounds of music and song will cease.
    The cities and towns will be in chaos,11 every house locked and the people gone.
    They will be deserted, with all the roads and bridges destroyed. It will be like that throughout the world, in all the nations, just like an olive tree; beaten and stripped after the harvest.

    Isaiah 24:14-16 & 23 The Lord’s people lift their voices, they shout for joy - His righteous people in the West, in the East and on the islands of the sea: all giving honour to the God of Israel. From the ends of the earth, we hear them singing: Glory to God, our Saviour and Redeemer.12 Ref: CJB, REB, NIV, KJV. Some verses abridged.

    1/ The great Day of the Lord’s punishment of the nations, will be a coronal mass ejection sunstrike, Isaiah 30:26, triggered by an attack on Israel. Even though this was prophesied thousands of years ago, nothing like it that matches all those vivid descriptions has happened as yet. Only now, as the world is again in a similar state to that of Noah’s day, 2 Peter 3:6-7, will the Lord ‘bring out of His storehouse’ His terrible fire judgement to destroy His enemies. Deut. 2:22 & 34-35, Romans 1:18, Psalm 83, Isaiah 61:2b, Haggai 2:6, 1 Samuel 2:10, Jer. 4:7, Matthew 3:10-12, Joel 1:15-20
    2/ The great sound will be heard around the world: Jer. 25:30-31, Jer. 51:54-55, Isaiah 29:6
    3/ Military powers of all kinds will be destroyed, especially the nuclear weapons neutralized: Jer. 49:35, Jer. 50:22-27, Hosea 2:18, Amos 5:9, Micah 5:10-11, Isaiah 32:14, Hosea 8:14
    4/ All of the Holy Land will be devastated and depopulated: Ezekiel 30:1-5, Isaiah 6:11-12, Jer. 12:12-14, Jer. 10:18, Ezekiel 21:1-7, Micah 1:6, Hosea 4:3, Jer.4:26
    5/ The whole world will be severely affected: 2 Peter 3:7, Malachi 4:1-3, Isaiah 47:10 & 14, Nahum 1:5, Jer. 25:32, Isaiah 66:15-16, Habakkuk 3:12, Revelation 6:12-17
    6/ There will be no natural light, caused by electrically induced atmospheric changes. Isaiah 47:3, Amos 5:20, Joel 2:2, Jer. 4:23 ‘The sky rolled up like a scroll’. Isa. 34:4, Rev. 6:14
    7/ The earth will be pushed along its orbital track, bringing us back to a 360 day year. Haggai 2:21-22, Joel 2:10, Psalm 18:7
    8/ Possibly up to 2/3 of the world’s population will die. All the evil peoples will be destroyed. This event is God’s second judgement on humankind, similar in scope to the Flood. Isaiah 26:21, Isaiah 51:6, Isaiah 30:30, Jer. 9:21-22, Ezekiel 21:12, Revelation 14:17-20
    9/ Everybody now alive will experience this terrible time, it will fall upon all and ‘test the worth of each person’: 1 Cor. 3:13, Luke 21:35, John 17:15, Rev. 3:19, Psalm 118:17-18
    10/ Most of the deaths will be in the Middle East area, Ezekiel 30:1-5, but around the world mass deaths will occur: Hebrews 10:27, Isaiah 33:12, Zeph. 2:12, Jer. 25:33, Psalm 35:12
    11/ After this disaster, which will destroy all our modern infrastructure, the survivors will divide the world into 10 regions, each led by a President, in a One World Government federation. Daniel 11:21-24, Rev 17:12 2, Thess. 2:1-11 New Israel, then called Beulah, will not join this OWG. Isaiah 62:1-5
    12/ All those people who are faithful to the Lord and obey His Laws are ‘accounted worthy,’ Colossians 1:10-12, 2 Peter 3:14 and all those who are true Israelites, whether by actual descent or by grafting in. Ephesians 2:11-18 They will be protected and saved from this terrifying event, Joel 2:32, Isa. 43:2b and the Lord has promised to provide ways of transportation for them. Psalm 68:17, Isaiah 66:20, Psalm 107:1-32. They will gather and settle into all of the holy Land. Isaiah 11:11-12, Ezekiel 20:34, Micah 12:12-13 The holy Land will be regenerated and will ‘bear fruit, for the homecoming of My people is near’. Ezekiel 36:8. Isaiah 35:1-2, Amos 9:13-15

    Zechariah 8:4-8 The Lord says: I am about to rescue My people and bring them back to live in the holy Land. Once again old men and women will sit in the streets of Jerusalem and the place will be full of children at play. Even if this will seem impossible to those who remain in those days, will it be impossible for Me?
    Revelation 7:9-10 I saw a vast throng, too many to count: from all races, every tribe, nation and language, standing before the throne of the Lamb. They were robed in white and had palm branches in their hands. They shouted: VICTORY TO OUR GOD AND TO THE LAMB WHO SITS ON THE THRONE.
    Note that the Lord Jesus will be revealed to His people before His glorious Return. Isaiah 24:23, 2 Thess. 1:10, Rev. 14:1
     
  2. John S

    John S New Member

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    NO - It isn't. The Day of the Lord, or WWIII, won't begin until near the end of the Tribulation, which has NOT yet begun.
     
  3. Madad21

    Madad21 Boast in Christ

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    Matthew 24:36
    "But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.
     
  4. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, keras.

    This is too much to sort out. One must be careful to delineate between the prophecies that are already fulfilled and those which are yet to be fulfilled. Not all of the prophecies in the Bible are still "in play." In fact, MOST have already been fulfilled. However, we can only know which are and which aren't by paying attention to the historical records, whether included within the Scriptures or external to the Scriptures. SOME of those prophecies which you have listed above HAVE ALREADY BEEN FULFILLED and won't be "fulfilled" again. Others still ARE "in play" and shall be fulfilled in the future. Some have even been partly fulfilled in the past with part yet to be fulfilled in the future!

    The thing that is important to understand is that there is more than one "(Great) Day of the LORD ('s vengeance)." He has acted against sin in the past, and He will continue to act against sin in the future. ANY TIME that God has had enough and chooses to act is a "Day of the LORD!"

    So, while Zechariah 8:4-8 is probably still in the future, especially with such contextual clues as ...

    Zechariah 8:20-23
    20 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; It shall yet come to pass, that there shall come people, and the inhabitants of many cities:
    21 And the inhabitants of one city shall go to another, saying, Let us go speedily to pray before the Lord, and to seek the Lord of hosts: I will go also.
    22 Yea, many people and strong nations shall come to seek the Lord of hosts in Jerusalem, and to pray before the Lord.
    23 Thus saith the Lord of hosts; In those days it shall come to pass, that ten men shall take hold out of all languages of the nations, even shall take hold of the skirt of him that is a Jew, saying, We will go with you: for we have heard that God is with you.
    KJV


    ... other passages are prophecies that have already been fulfilled. Jeremiah 4:26 is one such example.
    Jeremiah 4:16-26
    16 “Report it to the nations,
    proclaim about Yerushalayim:
    ‘[Enemies] are coming from a distant country,
    watching and shouting their war cry
    against the cities of Y’hudah.’
    17 Like guards in a field they surround her,
    because she has rebelled against me,” says Adonai.
    18 “Your own ways and your actions
    have brought these things on yourselves.
    This is your wickedness, so bitter!
    It has reached your very heart.”

    19 My guts! My guts! I’m writhing in pain!
    My heart! It beats wildly — I can’t stay still! —
    because I have heard the shofar sound;
    it’s the call to war.
    20 The news is disaster after disaster!
    All the land is ruined!
    My tents are suddenly destroyed,
    my tent curtains in an instant.
    21 How long must I see that signal
    and hear the shofar sound?
    22 “It is because my people are foolish —
    they do not know me; they are stupid children,
    without understanding, wise when doing evil;
    but they don’t know how to do good.”
    23 I looked at the land — it was unformed and void —
    and at the sky — it had no light.
    24 I looked at the mountains, and they shook —
    all the hills moved back and forth.
    25 I looked, and there was no human being;
    all the birds in the air had fled.
    26 I looked, and the fertile fields were a desert,
    all the land’s cities were razed to the ground
    at the presence of Adonai,
    before his burning anger.
    CJB


    This happened IN THE PAST with the coming of Nebuchadnezzar's army! And, having been fulfilled, the prophecy is COMPLETE, NEVER TO BE REPEATED! Now, it is a TESTIMONY - a PROOF - to the fact that God DOES act against sin! It's moved from a PROMISE to a PROOF!

    Also, one must be extremely careful in his choice for an English version of the Bible. Notice the difference between these two versions of the same passage:

    Jeremiah 4:23-26
    23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
    24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
    25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
    26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
    KJV


    Jeremiah 4:23-26
    23 I looked at the land — it was unformed and void —
    and at the sky — it had no light.
    24 I looked at the mountains, and they shook —
    all the hills moved back and forth.
    25 I looked, and there was no human being;
    all the birds in the air had fled.
    26 I looked, and the fertile fields were a desert,
    all the land’s cities were razed to the ground
    at the presence of Adonai,
    before his burning anger.
    CJB


    By virtue of the word choices, the one version sounds like this affects the whole planet. The other is more clear in that it affects the Land of Isra'el. Whenever possible, also check the original languages to be sure that what you understand of the verse is as close as humanly possible to what the human author was trying to convey in the writing.
     
  5. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

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    Retrobyter, with Bible translations, you will see that I note 4 versions in my reference. I also use the interlinear Hebrew/Greek translation. So I am careful to get it right and by looking at all the prophesies on the subject, I trust that I do present a correct story of what will happen.
    With Jeremiah 4:16-26 you categorically state this is fulfilled by the Bab. conquest. But was there an earthquake then? Did all the birds vanish? No mention of those things in the Bible or the secular records. We know from other prophesies that there is often a dual fulfilment. An initial 'type', then a later complete fulfilment.
    With the prophesies that I post in the OP, none have been fulfilled, unless you wish to allegorize them. But what will happen, is clearly stated, so to do that may be a mistake.
    If what the Bible actually says conflicts with what you have been taught, then you must reconsider your beliefs.
     
  6. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

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    Come you nations and listen, let the earth and all that is in it, listen.
    Listen in silence before the Lord, all you who live in the coasts and islands and together we shall go to the place of judgement. For the Lord’s anger is against all the nations, His wrath is against their military power and He gives them over to death and destruction.
    The Lord says: Woe for the Day, the Day is near, a Day of reckoning for the nations. The Day comes, burning like a furnace, all the arrogant and evildoers will become as stubble, that Day will set them ablaze, they will be no more.
    My great sword of slaughter will appear in the heavens, it will descend in judgement onto all the world’s peoples. On that Day, the sky will be split apart with a great rushing sound and a fiery tempest will devour all the peoples doomed for destruction.
    In the Lord’s fury and anger, He tramples down the nations, He shakes the places of the godless peoples and sweeps away their leaders with His flashing arrows.
    But the Lord goes forth to save His people, on the Day that He makes the sun to shine seven times stronger, on His Day of wrath, as He sieves out the nations for destruction. For The Great Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath has come and who can stand?

    References: Isaiah 41:1, Ezekiel 30:2-3, Malachi 4:1, Isaiah 34:1-6, 2 Peter 3:10, Habakkuk 3:6-15, Isaiah 30:26-28, Zephaniah 1:14-18, Joel 1:15, Revelation 6:17

    Make no mistake, this event WILL happen and as we see in our day, the stage is set: with worldwide natural disasters and manmade insurmountable problems and it is evident to all that a dramatic worldwide change will occur very soon. We who study Bible prophecies are in the unique position of being able to know what and when this great change to the world will be. Amos 3:7, Revelation 1:1
    Unfortunately far too many Christians won’t know and will be taken by surprise, because they haven’t read the prophecies correctly or have been misled by their pastors and by the many so called prophecy gurus.

    Isaiah 26:11 Lord, Your hand is lifted high, but Your enemies do not see it or how You will protect Your people. Let the fire reserved for Your enemies consume them!
    This applies specifically to those nations and entities who conspire to annihilate Israel. Psalm 83:1-18, Ezekiel 30:4-5, Jeremiah 49:35-37, Amos 1:3-15, Revelation 14:17-20

    We must all pray fervently for the Lord’s protection on this terrible Day, but also we see that we should be proactive and be prepared for our own safety.
    Isaiah 26:20-21 Go My people, enter your shelters and shut the doors after you, keep under cover for a little while until the Lord’s wrath has passed. The Lord is coming to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their sins.
    Jeremiah 6:25 Do not go outside, do not walk on the road, for the Destroyer, with sword in hand spreads terror all around.
    Proverbs 3:25-26 Do not be afraid when fools are frightened or when destruction overtakes the wicked, for the Lord will be at your side on that Day.
    1 Thess. 5:9 God has not destined us for retribution, but for the full attainment of salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.
     
  7. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, keras.

    Actually, the "initial 'type', then a later complete fulfillment" is a myth invented to ALLOW for such things as the "Antichrist predictions" to be drawn from passages that had NOTHING TO DO WITH an end-times "Antichrist!" It was a way for a passage to be applied to two different events IN SPITE OF the fact that God's Word in a prophecy is MEANT to be tested by the fulfillment of that prophecy! Thus, a prophet could be tested and discovered to be a true prophet of God or a false prophet.

    Regarding Jeremiah 4:16-26, this is why I say that ANY English translation may be insufficient to fully understand a particular passage. We are reading Yirmeyahu's words as HE experienced the events of this invasion! We are reading FIRST-HAND reporting on the destruction caused by Nebuchadnezzar's army! Does he actually SAY that there was an earthquake? No. What he SAID was ...

    24 Raa’iytiy hehaariym v-hineeh ro`ashiym v-kaal ha-gVaa`owt hitqalqaaluw.

    24 Raa’iytiy = 24 I-saw
    hehaariym = the-mountains
    v-hineeh = and-look!
    ro`ashiym = they-undulated/wavered
    v-kaal = and-all
    ha-gVaa`owt = the-hillocks
    hitqalqaaluw. = were-lit-up!


    24 I-saw the-mountains and-look! they-undulated/wavered and-all the-hillocks were-lit-up!

    He was seeing the hills ON FIRE! He was seeing the mountains behind WAVERING in the hot air! Don't think that just because you have a GOOD translation of the Bible that you have EXACTLY what was being said! Translations are works of HUMAN BEINGS and human beings are fallible!

    The Hebrew word for "earthquake" is "ra`ash." This word is not present within this passage.

    As far as the "birds vanishing," the word there is naadaad (He5074):

    25 Raa`iytiy v-hineeh eeyn haa’aadaam v-kaal `owf ha-shaamayim naadaaduw.

    25 Raa`iytiy = 25 I-saw
    v-hineeh = and-look!
    eeyn = there-existed-no
    haa’aadaam = the-man
    v-kaal = and-all
    `owf = birds
    ha-shaamayim = of-the-skies
    naadaaduw. = were-driven-away.


    25 I-saw and-look! there-existed-no the-man and-all birds of-the-skies were-driven-away.

    What he was seeing is that there was no one left alive and all the birds were driven off by the fires!

    No allegorization necessary to understand the TRUTH of what was going on in this passage! USE THE CONTEXT AND THE CONTEXTUAL CLUES! (Besides, I DESPISE allegorization!)
    Jeremiah 4:5-7
    5 “Announce in Y’hudah, proclaim in Yerushalayim;
    say: ‘Blow the shofar in the land!’
    Shout the message aloud: ‘Assemble!
    Let us go to the fortified cities!’
    6 Set up a signal toward Tziyon,
    head for cover without delay.
    For I will bring disaster from the north,
    yes, dire destruction.
    7 A lion has risen from his lair,
    a destroyer of nations has set out,
    left his own place to ruin your land,
    to demolish and depopulate your cities.”
    CJB


    Jeremiah 4:11-12
    11 “At that time it will be said
    of this people and of Yerushalayim:
    ‘A scorching wind from the desert heights
    is sweeping down on my people.’
    It is not coming to winnow or cleanse;
    12 this wind of mine is too strong for that.
    Now I will pass sentence on them.”
    CJB


    Jeremiah 4:19-21
    19 My guts! My guts! I’m writhing in pain!
    My heart! It beats wildly — I can’t stay still! —
    because I have heard the shofar sound;
    it’s the call to war.
    20 The news is disaster after disaster!
    All the land is ruined!
    My tents are suddenly destroyed,
    my tent curtains in an instant.
    21 How long must I see that signal
    and hear the shofar sound?
    CJB


    Jeremiah 4:26
    26 I looked, and the fertile fields were a desert,
    all the land’s cities were razed to the ground
    at the presence of Adonai,
    before his burning anger.
    CJB


    Jeremiah 4:28
    28 Because of this, the land will mourn
    and the sky above be black;
    for I have spoken, I have decided,
    I will not change my mind, I will not turn back.”
    CJB


    Doesn't that seem clear what's going on? So, why are you jumping around in time, ending up in the distant future?!
     
  8. shturt678s

    shturt678s New Member

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    Thank you folks for caring!

    Matt.24:29, etc. is an excellent passage about a future "1" Parousia of our Lord, the end.

    Isa.13:10, 11 is to be viewed more in the wide sense including the immediate destruction of Babylon, ie, say a blending of judgments where also includes the N.T. "Day of the Lord."

    Old Jack's opinion
     
  9. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

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    Doesn't that seem clear what's going on? So, why are you jumping around in time, ending up in the distant future?!
    Quote; Retrobyter.
    No, that is not clear that any of these prophesies were completely fulfilled in ancient times. Is the Bible just a history book? Why then was it preserved so carefully?
    Anyway Paul says: 1 Cor 10:11 All those things that happened to them, [the Israelites] were symbolic and were recorded as a warning for us, upon whom the end of the age has come.
    Peter says: 1 Peter 1:19...we do well to study the prophets...it will enlighten your mind.

    Do you think that God doesn't care for His creation now? You are in for a shock, because you and many others fail to discern the 'signs of the times'.
     
  10. shturt678s

    shturt678s New Member

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    Thank you for caring again!

    A sign of the times, viz., IIThess.2:10b, "for those perishing because they receive not the agape of the truth that they be saved." My point, the parousia of the antichrist is in full bloom today where Paul drew a parallel between the antichrist and Christ. The whole parousia of the antichrist is defined by the norm of Satan's working by lying, deception, error, and their result, eternal destruction.

    Sorry, got carried away thinking out loud again.

    Old Jack that has to stop that 'thinking out loud.'
     
  11. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

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    [SIZE=11pt]Here are some vivid descriptions of what will happen, very soon:[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]2 Esdras 15&16[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] These are the words of the Lord: I shall show sinners no pity, My punishment will not spare those murderers who stain the ground with innocent blood. [/SIZE]The Lord’s anger will burst out in flame, scorching the earth to its foundations and consuming sinners like burning straw. Woe to sinners who flout My commands, I shall show them no mercy. I well know all who offend against Me, I consign them to death and destruction.
    [SIZE=11pt] See the clouds – full of fury and tempest, their appearance is hideous. They will let loose a vast storm over the land. There will be terror and trembling throughout the world, people will shudder, stricken with panic. Huge clouds will pile up and ravage the whole land and its inhabitants and a terrible storm will sweep over all that is high and exalted, with fire and hail and flying swords. [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]Strong is the arm that bends the bow and sharp the arrows that He shoots. Once they are on their way, nothing will stop them until they reach the ends of the earth. Calamities are let loose and will not turn back. The fire is lighted and will not be put out. When the scorching heat bears down upon you, your strength and splendour will wither like a flower. When Y’hovah sends calamities, who can avert them? When His anger bursts into flame,[/SIZE] who can extinguish it? When the lightning flashes and it thunders, who will not quake with dread?

    [SIZE=11pt]The Wisdom Of Solomon 5:17-23[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] The Lord will array Himself from head to foot with the clothing of His wrath and will make His creation the weapon against His enemies[/SIZE]. He will take holiness for His invincible shield and sharpen His relentless anger for a sword. The bolts of His lightning will fly straight to their mark and the artillery of His resentment will let fly a fury of hail. A great tempest will rise against them and scatter them like chaff before a whirlwind. So lawlessness will make the whole world desolate.
    [SIZE=11pt]But the just will live forever, their reward is in the Lord’s keeping. Therefore royal splendour will be theirs and a crown from the Lord Himself. He will protect His people with His Right Hand and shield them with His arm. [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]The Wisdom of Solomon 16:15-16[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] From the Lord’s Hand there is no escape, the godless who refused to acknowledge You are scourged by Your mighty arm and pursued by storms of hail in relentless torrents and are utterly destroyed by fire. [/SIZE][SIZE=11pt]Ref: Revised English Bible Apocrypha[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=11pt]The Otot haMashiah[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] [the sign of the Messiah, written circa 12th century][/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]The Holy One, blessed be He, will bring to the world heat from the sun[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt], that will kill a thousand times thousands of all the nations and all the wicked of Israel will also die. Everyone will say: Woe is us, where can we escape to? They will dig holes and hide in caves to cool themselves. [/SIZE]If you ask: How will the righteous be saved from the heat of the sun? The Holy One, blessed be He, will give them a remedy in that heat.

    [SIZE=11pt]The Qibbutz Galuyot[/SIZE][SIZE=11pt] [the ingathering of the Exiles] [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]Ever since the destruction of the Temple, in 70AD, the Jews have prayed daily for the rejoining and the restoration of all the twelve tribes of Israel. To make this complete, there has to be redemption of the Lord’s people to Himself. Therefore, all the tribes of Israel must return to their ancestral Land and also the Shekinah Glory must return with them.[/SIZE]
    [SIZE=11pt]Happy are those who live in those days, to see the good fortune of Israel which God will bring to pass. For the ingathering of Israel, may God hasten His mercy to His people. [/SIZE]
     
  12. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shabbat shalom, keras.

    Fooey! History IS preserved so that we might LEARN from history! One can learn in one of two basic ways: one can forge ahead blindly and suffer first-hand the consequences, OR one can take someone else's experiences and learn from them, avoiding making the same mistakes! Thus, the history of the Scriptures IS carefully preserved to be lessons for us!

    On the other hand, I DO study the prophets, far more than most! Most Christians can't get their heads out of the NT book of Revelation!

    You've misquoted 1 Corinthians 10:11:

    1 Corinthians 10:11
    11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.
    KJV


    1 Corinthians 10:11
    11 These things happened to them as examples and were written down as warnings for us, on whom the fulfillment of the ages has come.
    NIV


    1 Corinthians 10:11
    11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
    NKJV


    1 Corinthians 10:11
    11 Now these things happened to them as an example, and they were written for our instruction, upon whom the ends of the ages have come.
    NASB


    Pros Korinthious A 10:11
    11 Tauta de tupikoos sunebainen ekeinois, egrafee de pros nouthesian heemoon, eis hous ta telee toon aioonoon kateenteeken.
    The Greek New Testament UBS

    11 Tauta = 11 These-things
    de = but
    tupikoos = typologically
    sunebainen = walked-together/occurred
    ekeinois, = to-them,
    egrafee = they-are-written
    de = but
    pros = toward/forward-to/pertaining-to
    nouthesian = calling-attention-to/warning
    heemoon, = of-us/our,
    eis = into/to
    hous = whom
    ta = the
    telee = ends
    toon = of-the
    aioonoon = ages
    kateenteeken. = are-come.

    11 These-things but typologically walked-together/occurred to-them, they-are-written but toward/forward-to/pertaining-to calling-attention-to/warning of-us/our, into/to whom the ends of-the ages are-come.

    11 But these things occurred typologically to them, but they are written pertaining to our warning to whom the ends of the ages are come.

    "Typologically" is NOT the same as "symbolic!" Be careful of the version or translation you're using! "Typologically" here does NOT refer to an allegorical interpretation of the OT; it refers to MODELS OF PERSONALITY TYPES, just as they are described in Hebrews 11!

    OF COURSE, God cares for His Creation! He cares for it AT ALL TIMES, including "NOW!" However, the "signs of the times" are NOT to be found in fulfilled prophecy! One might SURMISE that the future will be SIMILAR to the fulfilled prophecies, but that's not the same thing!

    JUST STICK TO THE SCRIPTURES WHEN they were given, and IF and WHEN they were fulfilled!
     
  13. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

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    Retrobyter, DO NOT ACCUSE ME OF MISQUOTING THE BIBLE.
    I use and recommend to everyone the Revised English Bible [Oxford Press 1989] as the best and most accurate for true understanding of scripture.
    It says 'symbolic' and in the context that to me is far more correct than 'ensamples', [KJV old English, leading to misunderstandings]
    I looked up Strongs Greek word 5179 ' tupos' - could mean a 'model for imitation, or 'an instance for warning'.

    Please tell us at what time in history did Isaiah 30:26 happen?
    You obviously refuse to believe that God will act to correct His creation again, as He did in Noah's time. The prophesies say it will happen; why not?
     
  14. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shabbat shalom, keras.

    Okay, don't misquote the Bible, and I won't accuse you of it. Fair enough?

    Now, regarding Isaiah 30:26, it HASN'T happened, yet! I didn't say that EVERYTHING you quoted was ALREADY fulfilled. I was cautioning against taking EVERYTHING you quoted as NEEDING TO BE fulfilled. Got it?

    Oh, OBVIOUSLY I "refuse to believe that God will act to correct His creation again." Right. (Tongue in cheek.)

    Listen, brother: I KNOW that He will correct His creation again! That's what "the New Skies and the New Earth" on which the New Jerusalem will land are all about! All I'm saying is be sure to use ONLY those Scriptures that have NOT ALREADY BEEN FULFILLED! (There were only a couple of them, such as Jer. 4, that HAD been fulfilled!)

    You've taken what I said in a wrong way and made me out to be a monster (of sorts), as though I didn't believe ANY of the prophecies are yet to be fulfilled! That's NOT what I said!
     
  15. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

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    Thanks, Retro - that's sorted.
    Just to clarify, what Revelation and many other prophesies say, is that there will be a judgement/punishment of the nations before the end of the Millennium and before the Return of Jesus for His Mill. reign. It will be the next prophesied event we can expect, the Sixth Seal and it is this disaster that most of the prophesies refer to: it will be the Great Day of the Lord, a literal Day when the 'sun shines with seven times is normal strength'. It IS coming, not too far away now.
     
  16. Eric E Stahl

    Eric E Stahl New Member

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    [SIZE=16pt]Signs of the day of the Lord[/SIZE]

    Zephaniah 1:14-15, 2:3-4
    14 The great day of the LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even the voice of the day of the LORD: the mighty man shall cry there bitterly.
    15 That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a day of clouds and thick darkness,

    1 Gather yourselves together, yea, gather together, O nation not desired;

    ((Israel the Nation not desired has gathered so the day of the Lord is very near and we should see the signs that Jesus told us would happen before the end of the world or age.))

    2 Before the decree bring forth, before the day pass as the chaff, before the fierce anger of the LORD come upon you, before the day of the LORD's anger come upon you.
    3 Seek ye the LORD, all ye meek of the earth, which have wrought his judgment; seek righteousness, seek meekness: it may be ye shall be hid in the day of the LORD's anger.


    Matthew 24:3-8
    3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?
    4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.
    5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
    6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.

    7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.
    8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.

    Luke 21:10
    [SIZE=10pt]10[/SIZE][SIZE=10pt] Then said he unto them, Nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: [/SIZE]
    [SIZE=10pt]11 And great earthquakes shall be in divers places, and famines, and pestilences; and fearful sights and great signs shall there be from heaven.[/SIZE]
     
  17. Retrobyter

    Retrobyter Well-Known Member

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    Shalom, keras.

    I agree! It's called a "war tribunal!" Yeshua` SHALL judge and punish the nations that mistreated His people, both the children of Isra'el and the adopted children commonly called "Christians." That's what the judgment of the sheep and the goats is all about. Those nations who treated them well will become tributaries to the Messiah's Kingdom. Those nations who did NOT treat them well, shall NOT participate in the Kingdom directly! Thus, they shall not share in the bounty of the Messiah's Kingdom, and it will be VERY hard for individuals to enter His Kingdom without denouncing their own country. Notice carefully that in the judgment of the sheep and goats, it does NOT say that they are thrown immediately into the fire, as we read in other passages of Scripture. He just says, "Get out of my face!" and leaves them alone! God's "hatred," like that for Esau, is to IGNORE someone! When God works with someone, whether positively or negatively, He is giving them time and attention, and like James Dobson said, "Children spell 'love' 'T-I-M-E!'" That's His love.
     
  18. keras

    keras Writer of Bible study guides

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    The Lord will punish the godless
    Isaiah 26:20-21 Go, My people, withdraw for a little while, until the Lord’s wrath has passed. The Lord is coming to punish the wicked and apostate peoples of the earth. All sins will be exposed and brought to light.
    Isaiah 27:1-12 On that Day, the Lord will punish with His powerful sword Leviathan, that twisting serpent. He will kill the monster of the deep. Rev. 13:1-2
    On that Day, sing of the fruitful vineyard – I the Lord am its keeper. I tend it constantly, but I get no fruit from it. If only it were briars and thorns, then I would not hesitate to destroy it. But if they [righteous Israel] come to Me for refuge, I will let them make peace with Me. In a time to come, Jacob’s posterity will prosper and Israel will flourish. They will fill the whole earth with fruit.
    Has the Lord struck Israel, as He killed their enemies? No, the atonement for Jacob’s guilt is made by their sojourn in exile. All the idol worshipping altars and sacred objects will be destroyed.
    The fortified cities lie abandoned. Animals graze there and the trees are dead, good only for firewood. For they were a people without understanding, so their Maker will show them no favour.
    On that Day, the Lord will thresh the grain from the Euphrates to the Wadi of Egypt and you, Israelites will be gathered one by one. On that Day, a Great Trumpet will sound and those who were exiled in Assyria and Egypt will come to worship the Lord in Jerusalem.
    Ref: REB, NIV some verses abridged

    The Lord is coming to punish the wicked… and expose all sins’. This event is not to be confused with the Return in glory, where ‘He gathers His elect’, after the Great Tribulation. Matthew 24:31 It will be the fulfilment of: Isaiah 66:15-18a, The Lord is coming in fire…He will test all mankind, for He knows their deeds and thoughts. And 2 Peter 3:7-12 The present heavens and earth are reserved for burning…kept until the Day when the godless will be destroyed…All the earth will be brought to judgement. He will not be seen on that Day: Psalm 18:11, Psalm 97:1-7, Hab. 3:4, and ‘the wicked will perish’ – Psalm 37:10-20, Hebrews 10:27. He will cleanse all the holy land – Isaiah 9:18-19, Ezekiel 30:1-5 and purge His people of unrighteousness – Ezekiel 20:34-38, Isaiah 1:24-25, 1 Cor.3:11-15
    The Lord’s wrath’, the terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath. Rev. 6:12-17, Isaiah 13:9-13, Joel 1:15-20, Zephaniah 3:8, 2 Peter 3:7 The Lord’s Day of judgement/punishment against His enemies, who are led by Satan referred to here as a serpent.
    ‘The Lord’s fruitful vineyard’, Israelite peoples If they acknowledge and trust God, He will save them. Joel 2:32 Israel- that is of all the 12 tribes, plus those who are grafted in and are judged righteous will be ‘gathered one by one’ and settled into the Land. They will be ‘a light to the nations’ and will send out 144,000 missionaries to proclaim the coming Kingdom of Jesus. Isaiah 60:1-4, Matthew 21:43
    ‘The atonement for Jacob’s guilt is made by their time in exile’. The sins of the forefathers are expiated by the long exile of their descendants. Isaiah 10:27, Isaiah 40:1-2
    ‘The whole area is abandoned’. All the holy Land is devastated and virtually depopulated after the Day of wrath. Rev. 6:12-17 The trees are burned and killed because of this fire judgement, that will be a CME sunstrike. Isaiah 30:225-28, Malachi 4:1&3 , Psalm 60:2, Isaiah 32:12-14
    For they were a people without understanding’. This refers to the current atheistic, apostate and idol worshipping inhabitants of the Land. Isaiah 3:8-9, Jeremiah 12:14, Luke 19:27
    The great Trumpet will sound’, All righteous people, who love the Lord, need to be prepared for a time, soon after the Lord’s Day of wrath, for when the Call comes to go to and gather in the Promised Land. Psalm 107, Isaiah 11:11-12, Zechariah 9:14-17
    ‘You Israelites will be gathered one by one’. On that Day, all the world will be judged. Only a remnant will be saved in Israel. But then the exiles from Assyria [the 10 Northern tribes] and Egypt [Judah] will regather in the holy Land. Zechariah 10:8-11
     
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