They dont get it

[mjrhealth]

You know why people suffer so much, its because the only way God can get makind to turn there faces to him is to allow them to be in dire situations so they have no choice to call out to tHim, but even then he gets blamed for our arrogance pide and stupidity. No you dont get it but soon you will, and when that time comes no one on the face of this earh will be able to help you, i do hope by that day you find Him and become secure in Him as Noah did teh arc.

God bless

 

[Dcopymope]

You know why people suffer so much, its because the only way God can get makind to turn there faces to him is to allow them to be in dire situations so they have no choice to call out to tHim, but even then he gets blamed for our arrogance pide and stupidity. No you dont get it but soon you will, and when that time comes no one on the face of this earh will be able to help you, i do hope by that day you find Him and become secure in Him as Noah did teh arc.

God bless

So would this be your final answer to a heathen asking you why God allows suffering? You do know how the heathens responds to the bowls of wrath God pours onto the earth in Revelation 16:11 right? They didn't repent of their sins and confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and saviour, it only made them hate God even more and blaspheme his name. So I can assure you that your answer won't be good enough. Verses like Romans 9:18 says that God will show mercy on whoever he chooses, whether they believe or not. I can assure you, that it will not seem to many like God is showing any mercy to the saints during the great tribulation.

In a sense its true, because it says that God will allow Apollyon to overcome and subdue the saints for a while. And when it comes down to it, you will either die for the name of Jesus, or plead allegiance to the beast, take the mark and get drop kicked into the lake of fire. Does God promise to provide for his children? Sure, he wouldn't be a god worthy of the name "father" if he didn't. But that doesn't make his sovereignty over who, when and where he chooses to provide for null and void.

 

[mjrhealth]

your final answer to a heathen asking you why God allows suffering

God gave us, dominion over this earth. men suffer because on mens doings not God,mankind has it in his power to feed and clothe everyone on this earth, but those who could are to arrogant proud greedy and stubborn. The weathy think they have it all but they have notihing, the poor who think they have nothing have it all, because they have God, just like Lazareth and the richman.

 

[Dcopymope]

God gave us, dominion over this earth. men suffer because on mens doings not God,mankind has it in his power to feed and clothe everyone on this earth, but those who could are to arrogant proud greedy and stubborn. The weathy think they have it all but they have notihing, the poor who think they have nothing have it all, because they have God, just like Lazareth and the richman.

You argument shows error from the first sentence pal. God gave Adam dominion over the earth, and he sold it out to Satan the moment he ate from the tree of good and evil. Satan has dominion over the earth, that's why we now have to plead with the father in heaven to provide for our basic needs, assuming we are actually in need of anything at all. That about answers your question about Lazareth, because being "poor" or "rich" wouldn't even cross our mind had it not been for the fall in Eden, nor will it in the new heaven and earth. Before the fall, the vast riches of the earth was freely available to us. There wouldn't be no such thing as a guy named Lazareth begging for bread crumbs at the feet of some rich fat cat.

 

[mjrhealth]

You argument shows error from the first sentence pal

Its no argument. all the evil that is upon this earth is because on mens choices. they choose to do evil they choose to steal they choose to hate they choose to war with one another they choose to be greedy they choose to store up there warehouses with good while the poor starve and thirst but as the bible says, They have chosen there reward here upon this earth and have lost there reward in heaven, again it is there choice, just as men choose to walk after men and to deny God, just as they choose to try save themselves and denying the power of God to save them, just as they choose to believe the lies and remain slaves to there religions, just as they choose to turn there faces from Jesus who is there life, just as they choose to not listen to His voice. It is mens doing and now we pay the price.

 

[Dcopymope]

Its no argument. all the evil that is upon this earth is because on mens choices. they choose to do evil they choose to steal they choose to hate they choose to war with one another they choose to be greedy they choose to store up there warehouses with good while the poor starve and thirst but as the bible says, They have chosen there reward here upon this earth and have lost there reward in heaven, again it is there choice, just as men choose to walk after men and to deny God, just as they choose to try save themselves and denying the power of God to save them, just as they choose to believe the lies and remain slaves to there religions, just as they choose to turn there faces from Jesus who is there life, just as they choose to not listen to His voice. It is mens doing and now we pay the price.

Well this is the Christian debate forum, so that makes it an argument by default. First you went on about why God allows suffering and I explained God's sovereignty over the matter like everything else. Then you put ultimate blame on the suffering witnessed on the earth on mankind by pointing out its so called dominion over the earth, and I showed you that mankind hasn't had dominion over the earth since the garden of Eden event. So while man will be judged according to the law, which is what this is all about concerning mans evil deeds, ultimate blame goes to Satan and his angels, not to man. "Judgement" ain't even the word to describe what Satan's got coming to him. He won't be standing before the great white throne to see if his name is in the book of life, because we already know that its not. God already declared that the lake of fire is his only destination.

 

[mjrhealth]

. So while man will be judged according to the law

Only those foolish enough to put themselves under it. In whch case they are already dead.

 

[Dcopymope]

Only those foolish enough to put themselves under it. In whch case they are already dead.

No one puts themselves under the law, all of us are under the law from birth until the day we become adopted sons of God though Jesus Christ. If you want to be more specific, all of us are under the law from the day we reach the age of accountability.

(Matthew 18:3-5) "And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven. {4} Whosoever therefore shall humble himself as this little child, the same is greatest in the kingdom of heaven. {5} And whoso shall receive one such little child in my name receiveth me."

I've already made this very clear before. You will either be made blameless like a child and be saved by the one that fulfilled the law, who paid the ransom for your soul making you the bride of Christ of the first Resurrection, or you will be judged by the law at the white throne in the second Resurrection. That's the real gospel in a nutshell.

 

[mjrhealth]

No one puts themselves under the law, all of us are under the law from birth until the day we become adopted sons of God though Jesus Christ. If you want to be more specific, all of us are under the law from the day we reach the age of accountability

Now that is a new one never heard off, Us gentiles where never under or ever given the law. But there are many foolish enough to try earn there salvation by it, even though they know they cant. As for children theyu all belong to Christ until what ever age He determines they can make the call themsleves, and we have no idea of when that is. And no it is not the real gospel, the law has only one judgemnt death it has no other. It never saved anyone, why do you think Christ came??

 

[heretoeternity]

Now that is a new one never heard off, Us gentiles where never under or ever given the law. But there are many foolish enough to try earn there salvation by it, even though they know they cant. As for children theyu all belong to Christ until what ever age He determines they can make the call themsleves, and we have no idea of when that is. And no it is not the real gospel, the law has only one judgemnt death it has no other. It never saved anyone, why do you think Christ came??

Why do you think by going to church sunday, and observing dec 25th and easter, and other non Biblical days you are winning approval from God? You are using false works to try and gain favour..your attitude appears to be hypocritical..why not just follow God's commanded doctrines and days, instead of man made pagan based days and doctrines?
You should remember always..
Salvation is through the Son of God, God's grace and commandments, NOT the sungod/satan and his doctrines and days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origins.

 

[Josho]

Why do you think by going to church sunday, and observing dec 25th and easter, and other non Biblical days you are winning approval from God? You are using false works to try and gain favour..your attitude appears to be hypocritical..why not just follow God's commanded doctrines and days, instead of man made pagan based days and doctrines?
You should remember always..
Salvation is through the Son of God, God's grace and commandments, NOT the sungod/satan and his doctrines and days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origins.

Well there is no sin by using those days for Jesus.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Why do you think by going to church sunday, and observing dec 25th and easter, and other non Biblical days you are winning approval from God? You are using false works to try and gain favour..your attitude appears to be hypocritical..why not just follow God's commanded doctrines and days, instead of man made pagan based days and doctrines?
You should remember always..
Salvation is through the Son of God, God's grace and commandments, NOT the sungod/satan and his doctrines and days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origins.

Salvation is through the Son of God, God's grace and your faith. You'll never get to heaven by following the law.

 

[Dcopymope]

Now that is a new one never heard off, Us gentiles where never under or ever given the law. But there are many foolish enough to try earn there salvation by it, even though they know they cant. As for children theyu all belong to Christ until what ever age He determines they can make the call themsleves, and we have no idea of when that is. And no it is not the real gospel, the law has only one judgemnt death it has no other. It never saved anyone, why do you think Christ came??

I already answered this question many times over already. I'll repeat myself for the last time. When the Bible speaks of being saved, its not referring to entry into heaven. "Heaven" is not where any of us are going. No one is actually going anywhere beyond either the new earth, or the lake of fire. Those are your only final destinations beyond this life. To be "saved" by the atonement of sins by Jesus Christ means to be "saved" from being judged for your sins, or your works in the first place. This is no mystery, Revelation 20 reveals it. It does not say that every soul to be judged in the second Resurrection will be cast into the lake of fire. That does not make God a just one, because the Gospel will not account for every person who died after the Resurrection of Jesus Christ who never could have possibly heard of the gospel or who Jesus Christ was.

It says that only those who are not found in the book of life will be tossed in, specifically the "fearful, unbelieving, the abominable, murderers, whoremongers, sorcerers, and idolaters, and who ever loveth and maketh a lie." Revelation is very specific about who is going to be there, and based on that criteria, you can rest assured that clowns like Stalin and Adolf Hitler won't be in the new earth. The entire point in repenting of your sins in the name of Jesus is to ensure that you won't be the one standing at the throne being judged for your works. If I were to spread the gospel to any heathen, I would point out what happens in Revelation 20 and ask this simple question: Are you willing to bank the fate of your soul on your works?

 

[mjrhealth]

I already answered this question many times over already. I'll repeat myself for the last time. When the Bible speaks of being saved, its not referring to entry into heaven. "Heaven" is not where any of us are going. No one is actually going anywhere beyond either the new earth, or the lake of fire. Those are your only final destinations beyond this life. To be "saved" by the atonement of sins by Jesus Christ means to be "saved" from being judged for your sins, or your works in the first place. This is no mystery, Revelation 20 reveals it. It does not say that every soul to be judged in the second Resurrection will be cast into the lake of fire. That does not make God a just one, because the Gospel will not account for every person who died after the Resurrection of Jesus Christ who never could have possibly heard of the gospel or who Jesus Christ was.

It says that only those who are not found in the book of life will be tossed in, specifically the "fearful, unbelieving, the abominable, murderers, whoremongers, sorcerers, and idolaters, and who ever loveth and maketh a lie." Revelation is very specific about who is going to be there, and based on that criteria, you can rest assured that clowns like Stalin and Adolf Hitler won't be in the new earth. The entire point in repenting of your sins in the name of Jesus is to ensure that you won't be the one standing at the throne being judged for your works. If I were to spread the gospel to any heathen, I would point out what happens in Revelation 20 and ask this simple question: Are you willing to bank the fate of your soul on your works?

well you may as well repeat it again

 

[epostle1]

I already answered this question many times over already. I'll repeat myself for the last time. When the Bible speaks of being saved, its not referring to entry into heaven. "Heaven" is not where any of us are going. No one is actually going anywhere beyond either the new earth, or the lake of fire. Those are your only final destinations beyond this life. To be "saved" by the atonement of sins by Jesus Christ means to be "saved" from being judged for your sins, or your works in the first place. This is no mystery, Revelation 20 reveals it. It does not say that every soul to be judged in the second Resurrection will be cast into the lake of fire. That does not make God a just one, because the Gospel will not account for every person who died after the Resurrection of Jesus Christ who never could have possibly heard of the gospel or who Jesus Christ was.

It says that only those who are not found in the book of life will be tossed in, specifically the "fearful, unbelieving, the abominable, murderers, whoremongers, sorcerers, and idolaters, and who ever loveth and maketh a lie." Revelation is very specific about who is going to be there, and based on that criteria, you can rest assured that clowns like Stalin and Adolf Hitler won't be in the new earth. The entire point in repenting of your sins in the name of Jesus is to ensure that you won't be the one standing at the throne being judged for your works. If I were to spread the gospel to any heathen, I would point out what happens in Revelation 20 and ask this simple question: Are you willing to bank the fate of your soul on your works?

Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16,21; 3:2,5,10; Eph. 2:8-9 - many err in their understanding of what Paul means by "works of the law” in his teaching on justification. Paul’s teaching that we are not justified by “works of the law” refer to the law of Moses or to any legal system that makes God our debtor. They do not refer to good works done in grace with faith in Christ. This makes sense when we remember that Paul's mission was to teach that salvation was also for the Gentiles who were not subject to the "works of the law." Here is the proof:

James 2:24 – compare the verse “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” to
Gal. 2:16 – “a man is not justified by works of the law,” and
Rom. 3:20,28 – “no human being will be justified in His sight by works of the law.”

James 2:24 appears to be inconsistent with Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:20,28 until one realizes that the Word of God cannot contradict itself. This means that the “works” in James 2:24 are different from the “works of the law in Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:20,28. James is referring to “good works” (e.g.,clothing the naked; giving food to the poor) and Paul is referring to the “Mosaic law” (which included both the legal, moral and ceremonial law) or any works which oblige God to give us payment. Here is more proof:

Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16 - Paul's phrase for "works of the law" in the Greek is "ergon nomou" which means the Mosaic law or Torah and refers to the teachings (legal, moral) and works (ceremonial) that gave the Jews the knowledge of sin, but not an escape from sin. We have further proof of this from the Dead Sea Scrolls which provide the Hebrew equivalent ("hrvt ysm") meaning "deeds of the law," or Mosaic law. James in James 2 does not use "ergon nomou." He uses "ergois agathois." Therefore, Paul’s "works of the law" and James' "works" are entirely different types of works. Again, they could never contradict each other because the Scriptures are the inspired word of God.

Rom. 3:29 - Paul confirms that works of the law in this case refer to the Mosaic law by rhetorically asking "Or is God the God of the Jews only?" It does not mean "good works."

Rom. 4:9-17 - Paul provides further discussion that righteousness God seeks in us does not come from Mosaic law, but through faith. But notice that Paul also never says “faith alone.”

Rom. 9:31-32 - righteousness is pursued through faith, not works of the law. Again, "works of law" does not mean "good works."

Rom. 11:6,11 - justification is no longer based on "works" of the law, but on the grace of Christ. Why? Because salvation is also for the Gentiles.

Rom. 15:9-12 - Paul explains that Christ also saves the Gentiles. Therefore, "works of law" are no longer required.

Acts 13:39 - Luke also confirms this by providing that we have been “freed from the law of Moses.” This is the “works of the law” from which we have been freed.

Rom. 3:20,28 - in addition to the Mosaic law, as stated above, "works of the law" can also refer to anything that makes God a debtor to us. This is because law requires payment, but grace is a free gift from God. Therefore, faith must be behind every good work in order for it to be a work of grace. If not, it is a work of debt, and we cannot obligate God to do anything for us.

Rom. 4:3-4 - Paul refers to works apart from God's grace. We do not obligate God to give us grace like an employee obligates his employer to pay wages. Faith in Christ must be behind our good works in order for it to be considered a work of grace; otherwise, it is a work of law or obligation.

 

[mjrhealth]

Nice post Kepha

 

[heretoeternity]

Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16,21; 3:2,5,10; Eph. 2:8-9 - many err in their understanding of what Paul means by "works of the law” in his teaching on justification. Paul’s teaching that we are not justified by “works of the law” refer to the law of Moses or to any legal system that makes God our debtor. They do not refer to good works done in grace with faith in Christ. This makes sense when we remember that Paul's mission was to teach that salvation was also for the Gentiles who were not subject to the "works of the law." Here is the proof:

James 2:24 – compare the verse “a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” to
Gal. 2:16 – “a man is not justified by works of the law,” and
Rom. 3:20,28 – “no human being will be justified in His sight by works of the law.”

James 2:24 appears to be inconsistent with Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:20,28 until one realizes that the Word of God cannot contradict itself. This means that the “works” in James 2:24 are different from the “works of the law in Gal. 2:16 and Rom. 3:20,28. James is referring to “good works” (e.g.,clothing the naked; giving food to the poor) and Paul is referring to the “Mosaic law” (which included both the legal, moral and ceremonial law) or any works which oblige God to give us payment. Here is more proof:

Rom. 3:20,28; Gal. 2:16 - Paul's phrase for "works of the law" in the Greek is "ergon nomou" which means the Mosaic law or Torah and refers to the teachings (legal, moral) and works (ceremonial) that gave the Jews the knowledge of sin, but not an escape from sin. We have further proof of this from the Dead Sea Scrolls which provide the Hebrew equivalent ("hrvt ysm") meaning "deeds of the law," or Mosaic law. James in James 2 does not use "ergon nomou." He uses "ergois agathois." Therefore, Paul’s "works of the law" and James' "works" are entirely different types of works. Again, they could never contradict each other because the Scriptures are the inspired word of God.

Rom. 3:29 - Paul confirms that works of the law in this case refer to the Mosaic law by rhetorically asking "Or is God the God of the Jews only?" It does not mean "good works."

Rom. 4:9-17 - Paul provides further discussion that righteousness God seeks in us does not come from Mosaic law, but through faith. But notice that Paul also never says “faith alone.”

Rom. 9:31-32 - righteousness is pursued through faith, not works of the law. Again, "works of law" does not mean "good works."

Rom. 11:6,11 - justification is no longer based on "works" of the law, but on the grace of Christ. Why? Because salvation is also for the Gentiles.

Rom. 15:9-12 - Paul explains that Christ also saves the Gentiles. Therefore, "works of law" are no longer required.

Acts 13:39 - Luke also confirms this by providing that we have been “freed from the law of Moses.” This is the “works of the law” from which we have been freed.

Rom. 3:20,28 - in addition to the Mosaic law, as stated above, "works of the law" can also refer to anything that makes God a debtor to us. This is because law requires payment, but grace is a free gift from God. Therefore, faith must be behind every good work in order for it to be a work of grace. If not, it is a work of debt, and we cannot obligate God to do anything for us.

Rom. 4:3-4 - Paul refers to works apart from God's grace. We do not obligate God to give us grace like an employee obligates his employer to pay wages. Faith in Christ must be behind our good works in order for it to be considered a work of grace; otherwise, it is a work of law or obligation.

Sin is transgression of God's law (ist John)...also John said in 1st John "those that say they know Him and keep NOT His commandments are liars and the truth is not in them"...
To enter into God's eternal kingdom, we must REPENT OF SINS, which means start following His commandments...I know Kepka your roman religious system teaches you different but they are wrong..the teach penance, which means you can keep sinning and keep getting the priest/pope to forgive you, but that does not mean God forgives you..As Paul said in Hebrews 10...if you keep sinning there is no other sacrifice or forgiveness available to you...especially not by mortals, who think they are infallible....
You should remember always and follow God's plan:
Salvation is through the Son of God, God's grace and commandments, NOT the sungod/satan and his doctrines and days of sunday, dec 25th and easter all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origins.

 

[Heb 13:8]

Sin is transgression of God's law (ist John)...also John said in 1st John "those that say they know Him and keep NOT His commandments are liars and the truth is not in them"...
To enter into God's eternal kingdom, we must REPENT OF SINS, which means start following His commandments...I know Kepka your roman religious system teaches you different but they are wrong..the teach penance, which means you can keep sinning and keep getting the priest/pope to forgive you, but that does not mean God forgives you..As Paul said in Hebrews 10...if you keep sinning there is no other sacrifice or forgiveness available to you...especially not by mortals, who think they are infallible....
You should remember always and follow God's plan:
Salvation is through the Son of God, God's grace and commandments, NOT the sungod/satan and his doctrines and days of sunday, dec 25th and easter all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origins.

I'll pray for you hereto, that you find the God of faith and grace. Jesus Christ. - Heb

 

[heretoeternity]

I'll pray for you hereto, that you find the God of faith and grace. Jesus Christ. - Heb

Sorry Heb but as you do not seem to believe God's word in the Bible, your prayers are not needed, as they will not be heard by God John 9.31...thanks anyway, but first you should learn:
Salvation is through the Son of God, God's grace and Commandments, NOT the sungod/satan and his doctrines and days of sunday, dec 25th and easter, all of which are non Biblical and of pagan origins.

 

[mjrhealth]

Sin is transgression of God's law (ist John)..

No it is not.

Gen_4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee shall be his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

How many thousand years was that before the law

.especially not by mortals, who think they are infallible....

Notably those who insist they can keep the law that no man can, the whole reason why Christ came, because no man was able, no HTE not even you.