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This really grabbed me today!

Discussion in 'Bible Study Forum' started by stunnedbygrace, Jun 11, 2022.

  1. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

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    And even online your interpretation borders to being blasphemous on John 1:1
    J.
     
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  2. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    This verse is also rendered 'Source' rather than 'Beginning'

    As all things were made through Jesus this does not suggest Him being somehow seperate from the Godhead.
     
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  3. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    We’ve already been through this. With the same exact words and phrases even, like “unequivocal.” It’s like deja vu all over again.

    Jesus replied, “Have I been with you all this time, Philip, and yet you still don’t know who I am? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father! So why are you asking me to show him to you?
     
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  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

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    Problematic for Aunty Jane
    J.
     
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  5. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    And when, as the verse says, he made Himself nothing and took on a human form and became a servant, it was true. He, in that human form, could do nothing without the Holy Spirit. He told the truth about that.
     
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  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

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    Well said
    J.
     
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  7. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    No it isn’t. She just changes the definitions of words to match what men have taught her. Voila, no problem! :rolleyes:

    Men do it often when they want to alter perceptions. Gay no longer means happy and lighthearted. You certainly wouldn’t walk up to another and say, you seem very gay today!
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2022
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

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    Hmm, sounds like Eve,....


    Gen 3:2 And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden:
    Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.
    Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:
    Gen 3:5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
    Gen 3:6 And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.
    Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.
    Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of the garden.
    Gen 3:9 And the LORD God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?
    Gen 3:10 And he said, I heard thy voice in the garden, and I was afraid, because I was naked; and I hid myself.
    Gen 3:11 And he said, Who told thee that thou wast naked? Hast thou eaten of the tree, whereof I commanded thee that thou shouldest not eat?
    Gen 3:12 And the man said, The woman whom thou gavest to be with me, she gave me of the tree, and I did eat.
    Gen 3:13 And the LORD God said unto the woman, What is this that thou hast done? And the woman said, The serpent beguiled me, and I did eat.

    ..and Voila! There's the root of all problems!
    Just kidding SBG.
    J.
     
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  9. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

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    The KJV is my primary Bible and often do comparisons on other versions.
    J.
     
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  10. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    Hah! You might be kidding, but youre sort of correct that it’s the root of all problems for humans to always shift the blame to someone else. I used to do it all the time. Even after I came to God I did it. I would explode at someone and say it was their fault and if they weren’t so nasty to me I wouldn’t have exploded all over them.

    There’s an old Chinese saying - whatever you are carrying will spill when someone bumps you.
     
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  11. Aunty Jane

    Aunty Jane Well-Known Member

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    Carl if you want to believe in the trinity, you are free to do so. But if it is not correct, I hope you understand what that means.....?
    Putting another "god" in the Father's place is serious breach of the First Commandment. Trinitarians have two other gods.

    The word in Greek is "archē" and it is used also at John 1:1&2, so what does it mean there? What is this "beginning" that is mentioned so often in connection with Jesus, since God had no beginning?

    Jesus is not the source or the originator of creation.....he is the fabricator of the raw materials brought into existence by his God.
    There is only one Creator and Jesus was at his side during the whole process as his "master worker". (Proverbs 8:30-31)
    Creation came "through him and for him".....it did not come from him. (Colossians 1:15-17)

    Please provide a scripture where either Jesus or his Father confirm that they are equals in a godhead with the holy spirit.
    No one so far has provided one....a direct statement is all we need and the issue is settled.....no ambiguous verses that might suggest something, just a clear statement will do.

    Surely one of you can come up with the goods?
     
  12. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

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    ..and there's a Japanese saying that says-The nail that sticks out gets hammered down..
    J.
     
  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

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    Sure I can.


    John 5:17-19
    But Jesus answered them, "My Father has been working until now, and I have been working." Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. Then Jesus answered and said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner.

    Philippians 2:5-6
    Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,

    John 1:1-2
    In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.

    John 5:23
    that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.

    John 14:8-11
    Philip said to Him, "Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us." Jesus said to him, "Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, 'Show us the Father'? Do you not believe that I am in the Father, and the Father in Me? The words that I speak to you I do not speak on My own authority; but the Father who dwells in Me does the works. Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me, or else believe Me for the sake of the works themselves.

    John 17:5
    And now, O Father, glorify Me together with Yourself, with the glory which I had with You before the world was.

    Colossians 2:9
    For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;

    John 10:30-33
    I and My Father are one.' Then the Jews took up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “Many good works I have shown you from My Father. For which of those works do you stone Me?” The Jews answered Him, saying, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy, and because You, being a Man, make Yourself God.”

    John 14:1
    "Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me.

    Equality right here, can you "see" it?
    J.
     
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  14. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

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    It came IN/EN Christ Aunty Jane, you are incorrect on Colossians 1:15 also. ἔν αὐτός...the Dative...κτίζω
    Part of Speech: Verb
    Tense: Aorist
    Voice: Passive
    Mood: Indicative
    Person: third [he/she/it]
    Number: Singular




    By him (ἐν αὐτῶ)
    Rev., in Him. In is not instrumental but local; not denying the instrumentality, but putting the fact of creation with reference to its sphere and center. In Him, within the sphere of His personality, resides the creative will and the creative energy, and in that sphere the creative act takes place. Thus creation was dependent on Him. In Christ is a very common phrase with Paul to express the Church's relation to Him. Thus “one body in Christ,” Rom_12:5; “fellow-workers in Jesus Christ,” Rom_16:3. Compare Rom_16:7, Rom_16:9, Rom_16:11; 1Co_1:30; 1Co_4:15, etc.
    All things (τὰ πάντα)
    The article gives a collective sense - the all, the whole universe of things. Without the article it would be all things severally.
    Were created (ἐκτίσθη)
    See on Joh_1:3. The aorist tense, denoting a definite historical event.
    Visible - invisible
    Not corresponding to earthly and heavenly. There are visible things in heaven, such as the heavenly bodies, and invisible things on earth, such as the souls of men.
    Thrones, dominions, principalities, powers (θρόνοι, κυριότητες, ἀρχαὶ, ἐξουσίαι)
    Vincent

    I would suggest not to look up the meaning of words but the morphology and Syntax and a whole new world will open up.
    J.
     
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  15. Carl Emerson

    Carl Emerson Well-Known Member

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    No they don't...


    You could equally say that God has a beginning from this statement...

    Revelation 1:8
    “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

    But that also would be playing with words.
     
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  16. Brakelite

    Brakelite Well-Known Member

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    KJV 2 Thessalonians 2:10-11
    10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
    11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:
    The above refers to those who are deceived because they have no real love, or passion for the truth. And I think also that when they come across truth at all, they don't allow them truth to sanctify them. But what is more interesting regarding the above. As much as I love the KJV, in these verses it misses a very important thing, in that the Greek has the definite article... The lie... In verse 11. And what is that lie? In context, it's the counterfeit second coming. That's mind blowing. Loving the truth... Having a passion for truth, and be willing to accept that truth whatever that truth may be and however it may upset your preconceived opinions determines your eternal destiny. That's serious. And even more sobering, is that the vast majority.... Will be in that group. So yes. It's a global issue.
     
  17. Brakelite

    Brakelite Well-Known Member

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    Totally.
     
  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

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    Explain what you mean by the counterfeit second coming.
    J.
     
  19. stunnedbygrace

    stunnedbygrace Well-Known Member

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    Antichrist.
     
  20. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

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    Reason why I ask is we all await the second coming of Messiah, right?
     
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