those that came out of the great tribulation when were they saved??

[Dave M]

In the book of revelation I see it says no one on earth repents, it says this several times.

Yet I here many preachers claiming that during the tribulation many people turned to Christ, I dont see this in scripture

9 After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands.

10 And they cried out in a loud voice: Salvation to our God,who sits on the throne,and to the Lamb!

13Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes, he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?

14“Sir, I answered, “you know.

So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


For years I have herd preachers say these are the one that came to Christ during the trinulation, these are preachers that also teach the pre trib....Now I just dont see it saying they came to CHrist during the tribulation, only that they died for Christ during the tribulation.

And as we dig more and more in the book of revelation it keeps saying no one repents, if we have so many people coming to Christ during the tribulation why does it says NO ONE REPENT...??

Revelation 16:9
They were scorched by the fierce heat, and they cursed the name of God who had power over these plagues. They did not repent and give him glory.

Revelation 9:21
Nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.

Revelation 9:20
The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk,

 

[CharismaticLady]

In the book of revelation I see it says no one on earth repents, it says this several times.

Yet I here many preachers claiming that during the tribulation many people turned to Christ, I dont see this in scripture

9 After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands.

10 And they cried out in a loud voice: Salvation to our God,who sits on the throne,and to the Lamb!

13Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes, he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?

14“Sir, I answered, “you know.

So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


For years I have herd preachers say these are the one that came to Christ during the trinulation, these are preachers that also teach the pre trib....Now I just dont see it saying they came to CHrist during the tribulation, only that they died for Christ during the tribulation.

And as we dig more and more in the book of revelation it keeps saying no one repents, if we have so many people coming to Christ during the tribulation why does it says NO ONE REPENT...??

Revelation 16:9
They were scorched by the fierce heat, and they cursed the name of God who had power over these plagues. They did not repent and give him glory.

Revelation 9:21
Nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.

Revelation 9:20
The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk,

Those coming OUT of the GT, were part of the church already going INTO the GT. Read Revelation 2 and 3, specifically the last four church ages. Outside the church age of Philadelphia, there were many who had not overcome. That is what "tribulation" is for. To correct their character. Also, note that they already had robes, and were not "naked" like unbelievers. But they had to wash the robes they already had in the blood of the Lamb to be saved. And not overcoming sooner like the Philadelphians, they had to prove themselves by being beheaded.

You are right about the others not being able to repent. It looks like many preachers believe according to the fictional books of Tim LaHaye.

2 Thessalonians 2:9-12:

9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

 

[CharismaticLady]

@Dave M

Remember also that no new Gentiles will come into the Church when "the fullness of the Gentiles comes in." That means, the focus goes back to Israel, and unsaved Jews during the GT will shed their partial blindness and all Israel will be saved. Romans 11.

 

[Jay Ross]

@Dave M

Remember also that no new Gentiles will come into the Church when "the fullness of the Gentiles comes in." That means, the focus goes back to Israel, and unsaved Jews during the GT will shed their partial blindness and all Israel will be saved. Romans 11.

A replacement theological understanding of the Romans 11:25-26 passage. This understanding is not correct.

If people took the time to actually study the verses, they would find that it actually states, "that when the fulness of the Heathen Gentiles trampling the sanctuary and God's hosts for 2,300 years has been completed, after that time all of Israel will be saved."

These two verses are not indicating that all of the Gentiles will have come into God's church before Israel is saved, as this is contrary to the Prophecies in the OT which clearly indicate that the Gentiles will seek out the Israelite people after they have been redeemed, to teach them the things concerning the Kingdom of God.

 

[DPMartin]

In the book of revelation I see it says no one on earth repents, it says this several times.

Yet I here many preachers claiming that during the tribulation many people turned to Christ, I dont see this in scripture

9 After this I looked and saw a multitude too large to count, from every nation and tribe and people and tongue, standing before the throne and before the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and holding palm branches in their hands.

10 And they cried out in a loud voice: Salvation to our God,who sits on the throne,and to the Lamb!

13Then one of the elders addressed me: “These in white robes, he asked, “who are they, and where have they come from?

14“Sir, I answered, “you know.

So he replied, “These are the ones who have come out of the great tribulation; they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.


For years I have herd preachers say these are the one that came to Christ during the trinulation, these are preachers that also teach the pre trib....Now I just dont see it saying they came to CHrist during the tribulation, only that they died for Christ during the tribulation.

And as we dig more and more in the book of revelation it keeps saying no one repents, if we have so many people coming to Christ during the tribulation why does it says NO ONE REPENT...??

Revelation 16:9
They were scorched by the fierce heat, and they cursed the name of God who had power over these plagues. They did not repent and give him glory.

Revelation 9:21
Nor did they repent of their murders or their sorceries or their sexual immorality or their thefts.

Revelation 9:20
The rest of mankind, who were not killed by these plagues, did not repent of the works of their hands nor give up worshiping demons and idols of gold and silver and bronze and stone and wood, which cannot see or hear or walk,

either you trust what scripture says or what others say what scripture says and means. Eve trusted what the serpent said God said and what the serpent said about what God said.

 

[JohnDB]

The great tribulation lasts for how long?

 

[CharismaticLady]

A replacement theological understanding of the Romans 11:25-26 passage. This understanding is not correct.

If people took the time to actually study the verses, they would find that it actually states, "that when the fulness of the Heathen Gentiles trampling the sanctuary and God's hosts for 2,300 years has been completed, after that time all of Israel will be saved."

These two verses are not indicating that all of the Gentiles will have come into God's church before Israel is saved, as this is contrary to the Prophecies in the OT which clearly indicate that the Gentiles will seek out the Israelite people after they have been redeemed, to teach them the things concerning the Kingdom of God.

I know you are only repeating SDA's teaching, but there is a difference between the "time" of the Gentiles, and the "fullness" of the Gentiles. When you look at the CONTEXT of Romans 11 and the "fullness" of the Gentiles, Paul is warning the Gentile Christians to not get too cocky because of the partial blindness put on the Jews that made way for the gospel to go to the Gentiles. It has nothing to do with your misunderstanding of Daniel 8's 2,300 evening and morning (actual days of almost 7 years. We know this because of the mention of particulars: morning and evening, the same as Genesis 1 days of 24 hour periods of time) in the chapter of the world dominance of Greece, when Antiochus Epiphanes IV defiled the Jewish temple by offering a pig on the altar. The dates of the Jewish revolt adds up to 2300 actual days, from 167 BC to 160 BC. Antiochus Epiphanes IV died in 164 BC, so his desecration was in the "middle of the week." This is a paradigm of the next Jewish revolt prophesied in the next chapter, Daniel 9, that lasted from 66 AD to 73 AD, and the middle of the week was as we all know 70 AD. Because "all Israel" is not saved yet, there will be another 7 year period to follow the precedent paradigms already in the past. Revelation and Daniel both show two periods of 3 1/2 years each which is called the Great Tribulation, and that is when all Israel will be saved, and the fullness of the Gentiles signifies the beginning when the Antichrist will be first revealed, starting the GT.

Too much has happened since 1844, and inventing a doctrine not spelled out in Scripture like the "investigative judgment" based on a vision by Hiram Edson after William Miller's "Great Disappointment" should make SDAs want to rethink their "truth." It was not EGW who invented this doctrine. (I say that to all who want to blame Mrs. While for all SDA non-scriptural doctrines.)

 

[Dave M]

Those coming OUT of the GT, were part of the church already going INTO the GT. Read Revelation 2 and 3, specifically the last four church ages. Outside the church age of Philadelphia, there were many who had not overcome. That is what "tribulation" is for

just trying to make sure I understand, are you saying that Philadelphia will not go through Tribualtion because the hour of trial is the GT?
Revelation 3:10
Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth

also does that mean you are saying the rest of the churches go through the GT??

and just to be clear you saying that the church of will be raptured before the GT??

I do appreciate you comments so thanks


if this is the case I would have to ask what about
To the Church in Smyrna
they dont seem to get any rebuke, yet he tells them they will face tribulation

 

[Jay Ross]

I know you are only repeating SDA's teaching, but there is a difference between the "time" of the Gentiles, and the "fullness" of the Gentiles. When you look at the CONTEXT of Romans 11 and the "fullness" of the Gentiles, Paul is warning the Gentile Christians to not get too cocky because of the partial blindness put on the Jews that made way for the gospel to go to the Gentiles. It has nothing to do with your misunderstanding of Daniel 8's 2,300 evening and morning (actual days of almost 7 years. We know this because of the mention of particulars: morning and evening, the same as Genesis 1 days of 24 hour periods of time) in the chapter of the world dominance of Greece, when Antiochus Epiphanes IV defiled the Jewish temple by offering a pig on the altar. The dates of the Jewish revolt adds up to 2300 actual days, from 167 BC to 160 BC. Antiochus Epiphanes IV died in 164 BC, so his desecration was in the "middle of the week." This is a paradigm of the next Jewish revolt prophesied in the next chapter, Daniel 9, that lasted from 66 AD to 73 AD, and the middle of the week was as we all know 70 AD. Because "all Israel" is not saved yet, there will be another 7 year period to follow the precedent paradigms already in the past. Revelation and Daniel both show two periods of 3 1/2 years each which is called the Great Tribulation, and that is when all Israel will be saved, and the fullness of the Gentiles signifies the beginning when the Antichrist will be first revealed, starting the GT.

Too much has happened since 1844, and inventing a doctrine not spelled out in Scripture like the "investigative judgment" based on a vision by Hiram Edson after William Miller's "Great Disappointment" should make SDAs want to rethink their "truth." It was not EGW who invented this doctrine. (I say that to all who want to blame Mrs. While for all SDA non-scriptural doctrines.)

CL you are welcome to hold the view that you do concerning the 2,300 evenings and mornings, but as for your claim that I am repeating SDA's teaching, then you are using a false claim to justify your POV. In other words you are using a false argument by attacking the person rather than the content of the person's post.

Yes the SDAs have used the year for a day understanding just as I have, but their starting point for the prophecy is in error with respect to Alexandra the Great which also means that their end point is in error.

Now we know that Israel has not been saved or redeemed, or made clean yet, and that they are still in part blinded to what is happening around them, but because you have wrongly interpreted the Daniel 8 prophecy with respect to the Sanctuary of God and His earthly hosts being trampled and only consider that it occurred during the time of the Maccabees' Revolt around the year 167-160 BC, you therefore are denying the fact that the Israelites have been trampled over the past 2,000 or so years and are still being oppressed and trampled in the world today. If the Israelite people are still being trampled and oppressed today, then your understanding of the Daniel 8 prophecy and its duration is not in line with the indication that even Christ conveyed of the Trampling of Jerusalem was an ongoing prophecy until the fullness with respect to time of the Gentiles was fulfilled and it ends when the Gentile Kings of the earth are judged at Armageddon for their trampling of the Sanctuary of God and His hosts..

With respect to the Greek text of Rom 11:25-26, the Greek word for word translation should read and understood with respect to the time of the gentiles trampling the Sanctuary and the Israelites. This will not stop happening for another 24 or so years from now.

Now I agree with you that the SDA's need to rethink their understanding, but they are not the only ones whose understanding is wrong. You also are just a wrong as the SDA's in your understanding of Romans 11:25-26 with your understanding that it describes that the Gospel of Christ will no longer be available after the time of the Armageddon judgement. This is simply not true and is the false teaching of the Pre Rapture doctrine.

So go back and do some in depth study of the Greek text and show that my understanding is flawed based on the context and meaning of the original Greek tests. When you are able to do so, then you may be worth taking heed of.

 

[CharismaticLady]

just trying to make sure I understand, are you saying that Philadelphia will not go through Tribualtion because the hour of trial is the GT?
Revelation 3:10
Because you have kept my word about patient endurance, I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth

also does that mean you are saying the rest of the churches go through the GT??

and just to be clear you saying that the church of will be raptured before the GT??

I do appreciate you comments so thanks


if this is the case I would have to ask what about
To the Church in Smyrna
they dont seem to get any rebuke, yet he tells them they will face tribulation

The first three church ages do not overlap and go to the end. Only the last four are actual denominations that started and are still current.

Thyatira - Roman Catholic and Orthodox
Sardis - Reformation. Protestant denominations. Two different types of current denominations. Dead doctrines and Holiness.
Philadelphia - Are able to keep ALL of Gods word through His Spirit.
Laodecia - lukewarm nominal Christians.

Philadelphia Christians will be kept safe, just as the Israelites were kept safe from the plagues of Egypt.

As you see in Revelation 12 below, the GT will have both Jews and Christians present. There is no such thing as a secret rapture. So make sure you are a Philadelphian and give your whole heart to Christ to abide in Him. Because Revelation 8 asteroid may hit the earth on April 13, 2029 according to NASA, and if the GT is 7 years long, then the GT will start in about 18 months. You will know for sure at that time whether the secret rapture is true or not. Personally, I do not see it at all in scripture. Especially since 1 Thessalonians 4:14 shows that at the second coming Jesus is only bringing with Him those who have died, not those who were raptured alive in some secret rapture. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who sleep in Jesus.

Revelation 12:14 But the woman (Israel) was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (Christians).

 

[CharismaticLady]

Now we know that Israel has not been saved or redeemed, or made clean yet, and that they are still in part blinded to what is happening around them, but because you have wrongly interpreted the Daniel 8 prophecy with respect to the Sanctuary of God and His earthly hosts being trampled and only consider that it occurred during the time of the Maccabees' Revolt around the year 167-160 BC, you therefore are denying the fact that the Israelites have been trampled over the past 2,000 or so years and are still being oppressed and trampled in the world today. If the Israelite people are still being trampled and oppressed today, then your understanding of the Daniel 8 prophecy and its duration is not in line with the indication that even Christ conveyed of the Trampling of Jerusalem was an ongoing prophecy until the fullness with respect to time of the Gentiles was fulfilled and it ends when the Gentile Kings of the earth are judged at Armageddon for their trampling of the Sanctuary of God and His hosts..

Daniel 8 is before the Roman Empire. Daniel 9 is after the 2300 day prophecy was completed.

 

[Bobby Jo]

Daniel 8 is before the Roman Empire.

Daniel 9 is after the 2300 day prophecy was completed.

0 for 2.

Dan. 12:4 But you, Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, until the time of the end. Many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall increase.”​

-- for those who know/like/obey Scripture ...
Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

The great tribulation lasts for how long?

Good luck getting a correct answer ...

Bobby Jo

 

[Bobby Jo]

... if we have so many people coming to Christ during the tribulation why does it says NO ONE REPENT...??

Rev. 11:13 And at that hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell; seven thousand people were killed in the earthquake, and the rest were terrified and gave glory to the God of heaven.​

Two things:

-- Christians not only go through the Tribulation, we've been in the Tribulation for some 30 months with some 12 months to go.
-- People ARE BEING SAVED during the Tribulation.​

Bobby Jo

 

[JunChosen]

those that came out of the great tribulation when were they saved?

BEFORE THE FOUDATION OF THE WORLD!!!

Same for those who have died in Christ in the past as well as for those who will have died in the future in Christ...UNTIL the fulness of the Gentiles come in or until the last of the Gentiles that is to be saved have been saved. This is the thrust/gist of Romans 11:25-26.

To God Be The Glory

 

[Waiting on him]

Matthew 24:21,34 KJV
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. [34] Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Their generation already witnessed it.

 

[farouk]

Matthew 24:21,34 KJV
[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. [34] Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Their generation already witnessed it.

@Waiting on him Do you see the great tribulation of Matthew 24 as being distinct from the tribulation principle mentioned by the Lord Jesus in John 16.33? I do, as it happens...

 

[Waiting on him]

@Waiting on him Do you see the great tribulation of Matthew 24 as being distinct from the tribulation principle mentioned by the Lord Jesus in John 16.33? I do, as it happens...

It appears to me to be the same warning.
Matthew 24:9 KJV
[9] Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

and this is precisely what happened as Jesus said it would to His apostles.

 

[JohnDB]

Good luck getting a correct answer ...

Bobby Jo

Megas is the Early Latin word used in conjunction with "great tribulation"

Now if someone can tell me how this word means "severe" I'm all ears.

But usually it's where we get the word Megabyte...
Meaning Large.

Could that truly mean "long"?

Just asking...

 

[farouk]

It appears to me to be the same warning.
Matthew 24:9 KJV
[9] Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.

and this is precisely what happened as Jesus said it would to His apostles.

@Waiting on him I would see it in John 16 as being the tribulation principle that is always there; remembering also that the Lord has overcome the world.

Whereas the wording in Matthew 24 seems to relate to a unique, future event, v. 21: " For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be."