Those who deny Eternal Security

[ChristisGod]

Have a HUGE problem to solve when it comes to the Apostle and leader of the Church Peter.

1- he denied Jesus 3 times
2- he ran from those who said he knew Jesus denying his relationship with Jesus
3- he lived a hypocritical life with the Jews and Gentiles after Pentecost
4- Paul confronts him to his face for being a hypocrite
5- Peter was a stumbling block for the weaker brother Barnabas and caused him to fall into sin as a hypocrite
6- Peter forced the gentiles with him to participate in his hypocrisy

See Galatians 2 for the details.

So according to their heretical teaching the Apostle Peter was not saved, lost his salvation and if he died was going to hell before Paul confronted Him with his sin.

hope this helps !!!

 

[07-07-07]

Eternal Security is a doctrine of men who refuse to submit to God's sanctifying power to overcome the lusts of the flesh.

 

[Jane_Doe22]

Have a HUGE problem to solve when it comes to the Apostle and leader of the Church Peter.

1- he denied Jesus 3 times
2- he ran from those who said he knew Jesus denying his relationship with Jesus
3- he lived a hypocritical life with the Jews and Gentiles after Pentecost
4- Paul confronts him to his face for being a hypocrite
5- Peter was a stumbling block for the weaker brother Barnabas and caused him to fall into sin as a hypocrite
6- Peter forced the gentiles with him to participate in his hypocrisy

See Galatians 2 for the details.

So according to their heretical teaching the Apostle Peter was not saved, lost his salvation and if he died was going to hell before Paul confronted Him with his sin.

hope this helps !!!

Do you want to understand other perspectives on this?

 

[ChristisGod]

Do you want to understand other perspectives on this?

This exchange here is what brought this thread so here is some background.

Dead in Sin !

 

[Jane_Doe22]

This exchange here is what brought this thread so here is some background.

Dead in Sin !

He felt why I asked if you wanted to understand different perspectives about this topic, or this was a specificly venue to continue yours and 07’s conversation.

 

[ChristisGod]

He felt why I asked if you wanted to understand different perspectives about this topic, or this was a specificly venue to continue yours and 07’s conversation.

I'm always open to your thoughts

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I'm always open to your thoughts

I approach one’s relationship with Christ as a relationship. It grows and (hopefully ) deepens and evolves through time. And there may indeed be rocky points at times. Sometimes a person may even choose to leave. Things happen in complex ways and I only know a small iota of anyone’s journey ( including my own).

I don’t see this relationship as a binary check box. It’s not one I need to proclaim “my box is checked and can never be unchecked!” Or “your box was never checked in the first place!” .. that’s just not the paradigm.

 

[ChristisGod]

I approach one’s relationship with Christ as a relationship. It grows and (hopefully ) deepens and evolves through time. And there may indeed be rocky points at times. Sometimes a person may even choose to leave. Things happen in complex ways and I only know a small iota of anyone’s journey ( including my own).

I don’t see this relationship as a binary check box. It’s not one I need to proclaim “my box is checked and can never be unchecked!” Or “your box was never checked in the first place!” .. that’s just not the paradigm.

I understand the concept. But using human relationships as an analogy my 2 sons and 2 daughters will always be my sons and daughters regardless of their acceptance or denial of that truth. Nothing they can do will ever change that but as you say our relationship/closeness can be effected by their actions. I will always love them, accept them, be there for them no matter what.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Jane_Doe22]

I understand the concept. But using human relationships as an analogy my 2 sons and 2 daughters will always be my sons and daughters regardless of their acceptance or denial of that truth. Nothing they can do will ever change that but as you say our relationship/closeness can be effected by their actions. I will always love them, accept them, be there for them no matter what.

hope this helps !!!

Mere biology isn’t a relationship.

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Your “problem” is not “huge”. It’s actually founded on faulty assumptions based on a false doctrine you have been taught to believe by men.

1- he denied Jesus 3 times

This happened before he fully came to understand and believe the resurrection for salvation:

Mark 16:9-11 KJV
[9] Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. [10] And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept. [11] And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.

3- he lived a hypocritical life with the Jews and Gentiles after Pentecost
4- Paul confronts him to his face for being a hypocrite

3- he lived a hypocritical life with the Jews and Gentiles after Pentecost
4- Paul confronts him to his face for being a hypocrite
5- Peter was a stumbling block for the weaker brother Barnabas and caused him to fall into sin as a hypocrite
6- Peter forced the gentiles with him to participate in his hypocrisy

None of this you artificially made long from from a single passage in Galatians has anything to do with the resurrection of Christ; and to equate Peter and Barnabas’ unwise decision to “live as the Jews” hypocritically is not in the same universe of denying the resurrection of Christ.

 

[DNB]

Have a HUGE problem to solve when it comes to the Apostle and leader of the Church Peter.

1- he denied Jesus 3 times
2- he ran from those who said he knew Jesus denying his relationship with Jesus
3- he lived a hypocritical life with the Jews and Gentiles after Pentecost
4- Paul confronts him to his face for being a hypocrite
5- Peter was a stumbling block for the weaker brother Barnabas and caused him to fall into sin as a hypocrite
6- Peter forced the gentiles with him to participate in his hypocrisy

See Galatians 2 for the details.

So according to their heretical teaching the Apostle Peter was not saved, lost his salvation and if he died was going to hell before Paul confronted Him with his sin.

hope this helps !!!

There is a difference between sinning, and renouncing Christ. ...I don't want to hear how one is tantamount to the other, they are not.
But even rejecting Christ under duress, is not a real renunciation, as Peter did, equally as it was during both the Donatist and Novationist controversies - is love only authentic provided one is willing to give their life for it, no.

God is looking for believers who, in their hearts, truly believe in their own unrighteousness, and God's mercy and grace. Having a shotgun to one's head, forcing them to acquiesce to a particular principle, is not a real conviction. And, I don't believe that God holds anyone accountable under such an un-optionable persuasion. For, try telling a fiancé that you love them under such threatening conditions, even they won't buy it. Thus, Peter did not sincerely reject Christ, he even cried after he made his denial.

But, I do believe that men can lose their faith that they once authentically had. For why would a conviction expressed at one moment in time, truly define one's love for God and Christ? Just as in a marriage, time will tell of the sense of duty, decency and integrity that the couple hold for each other. Simply expressing one's love for another, and making a commitment to them, at one singular event, does not by any means testify to a profound or sincere devotion. Time, challenges, opposition and duration are the true test of the innermost convictions of one's heart, and God is fully aware of this.

 

[ChristisGod]

Your “problem” is not “huge”. It’s actually founded on faulty assumptions based on a false doctrine you have been taught to believe by men.



This happened before he fully came to understand and believe the resurrection for salvation:

Mark 16:9-11 KJV
[9] Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he had cast seven devils. [10] And she went and told them that had been with him, as they mourned and wept. [11] And they, when they had heard that he was alive, and had been seen of her, believed not.





None of this you artificially made long from from a single passage in Galatians has anything to do with the resurrection of Christ; and to equate Peter and Barnabas’ unwise decision to “live as the Jews” hypocritically is not in the same universe of denying the resurrection of Christ.

Never claimed it was the same.

Are you saying hypocrisy is not a sin ? yes or no

 

[ChristisGod]

But I'm sure everyone here would say this is sinful, a sin.

If I'm around one group of people and I drink alcoholic beverages with them and approve that its ok as long as your do not get drunk and with another group of people say its not ok and to stay away from the very appearance of evil and not be a stumbling block to others that would be a hypocrite and I would be accused of sin.

but Peter gets a free pass from the same group who says I would be sinning?

that tells me one doesn't understand hypocrisy and that anything not done in faith is a sin and he who doubts what he does is a double minded man.

Romans 14:23
But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is sin.


James 1:6-8
But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. 8 Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do.

James 4:7
Therefore, to one who knows the right thing to do and does not do it, to him it is sin

Luke 12:47
That servant who knows his master's will but does not get ready or follow his instructions will be beaten with many blows.

John 9:41
Jesus said unto them, If ye were blind, ye should have no sin: but now ye say, We see; therefore your sin remaineth.

 

[DNB]

But I'm sure everyone here would say this is sinful, a sin.

If I'm around one group of people and I drink alcoholic beverages with them and approve that its ok as long as your do not get drunk and with another group of people say its not ok and to stay away from the very appearance of evil and not be a stumbling block to others that would be a hypocrite and I would be accused of sin.

but Peter gets a free pass from the same group who says I would be sinning?

that tells me one doesn't understand hypocrisy and that anything not done in faith is a sin and he who doubts what he does is a double minded man.

But why are you equating the action of sin, with losing one's salvation? Whether hypocrisy is a sin or not, there is not a believer out there who has not sinned after their conversion to Christ. And, anyone who claims that they haven't, is the worst sinner of them all.

 

[ChristisGod]

But why are you equating the action of sin, with losing one's salvation? Whether hypocrisy is a sin or not, there is not a believer out there who has not sinned after their conversion to Christ, and anyone who claims that they haven't, is the worst sinner of them all.

I'm not the others are saying that and I'm defending Eternal Security of the believer. They teach sinning and you lose your salvation. See the dead in sin thread on the last 2 pages.

Dead in Sin !

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Are you saying hypocrisy is not a sin ? yes or no

Look, the scriptures make a distinction between willful sins and unwillful sins (Numbers 15:30; Hebrews 10:26). It is obvious that the actions that Peter and Barnabas got caught up in (Galatians 2:12-13) were not premeditated; even the scripture says that Barnabas was “carried away” in this regard.

Peter and Barnabas were never again accused of this issue ever again in scripture.

 

[ChristisGod]

Look, the scriptures make a distinction between willful sins and unwillful sins (Numbers 15:30; Hebrews 10:26). It is obvious that the actions that Peter and Barnabas got caught up in (Galatians 2:12-13) were not premeditated; even the scripture says that Barnabas was “carried away” in this regard.

Peter and Barnabas were never again accused of this issue ever again in scripture.

Get real Peter knew very well what he was doing which is why Paul said he stood CONDEMNED for his actions.

Peter listened many times to Jesus teaching on hypocrisy especially with someone in leadership and influence over others.

These excuses are a joke and mocking God.

 

[DNB]

I'm not the others are saying that and I'm defending Eternal Security of the believer. They teach sinning and you lose your salvation. See the dead in sin thread on the last 2 pages.

Dead in Sin !

Yes, you're right, they were equating the two, not you.
Sorry, thanks!

 

[ChristisGod]

Yes, you're right, they were equating the two, not you.
Sorry, thanks!

ditto

 

[Michiah-Imla]

Get real Peter knew very well what he was doing

You assume this; no scripture says he planned this behavior.

The fact that the scripture says that Peter feared them of the circumcision shows that his action was not with intentions to deny the truth, but to protect himself from the Jews. Much like David, when he lied to Ahimelech the priest (1 Samuel 21:2); David is not condemned for this in scripture because of the situation he was in.

God knows the intentions of the heart (Hebrews 4:12) and understands the actions of men; we can only judge by the appearance of things which is condemned by the Lord (John 7:24).