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Traditional Roman Catholic Here

Discussion in 'Community Welcome Center' started by MattO, Jul 26, 2018.

  1. MattO

    MattO Member

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    Greetings all! I have decided to join your website to get involved in some interesting discussions. What could be better than discussing Biblical and doctrinal differences? This place seems to be a great website for interdenominational discussions. I hope that we can have a good time discussing our differences and similarities.

    Just a little about myself...

    1) I used to be a terrible sinner
    2) Raised in the Modern Catholic Church (Novus Ordo) ***Mostly because of Catholic School***
    3) Born in Flint, Michigan
    4) Lived in Michigan, Texas, Washington, Georgia etc. etc. etc.
    5) Grandmother on Mom's side was Catholic, Grandfather on Mom's side was Amish, Grandmother on Dad's side was Pentecostal, Grandfather on Dad's side was Baptist, my father is Atheist, and my mother is Catholic (not in full communion).
    6) Became a believer in early 2011. Feel free to ask more if you wish to know.
    7) Studied a little about ancient Judaism
    8) Knows a decent amount about theology (been studying on and off for the last 13 years)
    9) Have not read the entire Bible but have read a decent amount (definitely the Gospels and the first few books of the Old Testament plus bits and pieces of other parts of the Bible)
    10) Studied a little on how ancient Judaism relates to Christianity
    11) 35 year old Army Veteran
    12) I hold some White Nationalist views but am not formally apart of any White Nationalist group....please feel free to question me about this if you please.


    I am hoping that this will lead to some positive discussions and I look forward to learning more about other belief systems.

    Sincerely,

    Matt
     
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  2. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to the site. as a fellow Catholic I have to question you about this. Please clarify what you mean by 'white' and 'nationalistiic'...
    My brothers and sister in the Church are many colours and from many nations... but we are ALL citizens of New Jerusalem...

    There is no place for racial distinction within the Church.

    Pax!
     
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  3. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Well there are some very vocal Catholics on this Site.
    And there are a few "anti-Catholics" which are also 'very vocal!!'
    When those members are posting to each other it can get quite hot, heavy and nasty.

    I must say..most of us stay out of those " discussions/arguments" :D

    Philip who responded to your post first...is a very polite, gentle Catholic , therefore he gets on well with both side of the discussions. :)
    Bless you...
    ~ . ~ welcome-sign-smiley-emoticon.gif
     
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  4. MattO

    MattO Member

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    I believe in certain aspects of Christian Identity because of Revelations 7 and the prophecy of St. Caesar of Arles...

    "who shall be a scion of the holy race of the French kings" (St. Caesar of Arles, 469 AD-543 AD)

    I believe that the Royal and Noble families of old Europe were descended of Charlemagne who was descended of Clovis I, 1st King of France. Clovis I is [unofficially] descended of Greek Kings who are ultimately descended of Abraham. Those descended of Abraham are the servants of God (Revelation 7), but they must be Christianized as well as a believer for it to mean anything.

    In St. Caesar of Arles' PROPHECY, He refers to the French Kings as a Holy Race. Eventually, many of the Monarchy systems of Europe were either emasculated or abolished altogether, and have (over the past few hundred years) began mixing with commoners. Also, considering that many of the first settlers to the United States were of English nobility....nearly all of the White Race is descended of Abraham.

    Yes people of other races go to Heaven, but God uses the White Race to spread His Church. We are his servants and have been for a long time (Spanish Conquistadors spreading the Church to other areas of the world etc.). Those descended of Abraham have a higher potential to be a Saint. God reveals more to his "Abrahamic" believers.

    Remember that part during mass when the priest states "of all the Angels and Saints"? The prophecy of St. Caesar falls into this category.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2018
  5. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    You are way out in left field brother. I suggest you bring this to your confessor.

    We are all ONE because we all partake of the ONE bread, Jesus Himself...

    You need to humble yourself before the Lord, our God, and ask Him to change your heart.

    Peace be with you!
     
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  6. MattO

    MattO Member

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    Why is it that I should be taking this to my confessor? I showed you my reasoning behind what I believe. Can you show me yours? Are we dealing with issues of liberalism? You know that stubborn liberalism is worthy of the death penalty do you not?

    I'm not sure if you are aware of what traditional Catholicism stands for, but we do not believe in concepts such as Jews, Muslims, etc. making it to Heaven. Nor do we believe in Civil Rights.
     
  7. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    Because it is not what the Church teaches... He will clarify that for you

    Peace
     
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  8. MattO

    MattO Member

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    Your not going to convince me based off of what you told me in this post. The church that you are referring to is not Catholic. Its more like an Orthodox Church who is right about a lot of things but wrong about a handful. I still believe the Sacraments are valid in the Novus Ordo, but ever since Vatican II there has been heresy incorporated into the "Catholic" Catechism.
     
  9. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    You are not qualified to make that judgement. You have a choice to follow the majesterium or cease being Catholic.. There is no other option.

    Pax!
     
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  10. MattO

    MattO Member

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    As a Catholic, you should know that full knowledge is required for someone to be culpable of a sin, and scripture states that if we love them [members of the Church] then we should correct them if they are about to do/do something wrong. Telling someone they are wrong about something may make a sinner culpable, but I'm not so sure its that easy. I like to think that a person should be shown how they are wrong in order for them to be culpable (if they persist in error afterwards).

    For example, when Christianity first started spreading throughout Israel, many Christian converts were persecuted and martyred. On the flip side of the coin, the Jews believed they were administering divine justice by killing them. They viewed Jewish converts to Christianity as Apostates, Blasphemers etc. etc. etc. Jewish law permitted government officials to exercise the Death Penalty for these crimes, and as we can see, that's what happened. Traditionally, Apostasy, Blasphemy, and Heresy are sins worthy of the death penalty.

    The unfortunate side of things is that truth mandates that those Christian converts were correct in their decision to convert and that the Jews were in the wrong. Not only were the Jews wrong then, but the Jews of today are descended of the Jews who rejected Jesus Christ back when. Needless to say, because the Jews were in the wrong they were committing murder. However, they were not culpable for the shedding of innocent blood (the highest form of murder) even though that was what they were committing. These converts were JUSTIFIED in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 6:11) which means they were no longer guilty of the sins that they had committed before their conversion.
     
  11. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Welcome to this forum, Matt.

    Since you became a believer how do you reconcile that with traditional Roman Catholic doctrine and practice? Bible Christianity is not identical with Roman Catholicism.
     
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  12. amadeus

    amadeus Well-Known Member

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    @MattO

    Welcome to the forum!
     
  13. Triumph1300

    Triumph1300 Well-Known Member

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    Well......welcome to the forum.
    I see you got right into it already.
    Good luck my friend.
     
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  14. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    Which heresies MO?
     
  15. MattO

    MattO Member

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    The Old Testament mentions most (not all) of the different Festivals that the ancient Israelites practiced their beliefs at. Most of these festivals included the practice of gathering all of the Israelites near an [about to be] animal sacrifice (typically oxen, rams and LAMBs were used). Once gathered, a Jewish priest would place his hands on the head of the animal and then cast the sins of the Israelites into it. The priest would then cut the throat of the animal and once the animal died the sins of the Israelites would die with it. At this point, if I remember correctly, the animal would be turned over to the High Priest at the temple in Jerusalem to be slaughtered, cooked, and prepared. The Israelites would then feast on the animals and by doing so they experienced a boost in Faith. In the case that they had lost their relationship with God (due to a severe enough sin) prior to their sins being absolved by the priest and prior to eating the animal...by eating the animal their relationship with God would then be re-established (Term: Consecration). But they had to have their sins absolved by the Israelite priests prior to eating these animals. The main purpose of absolving the Israelites of their sins was to make them worthy enough to eat the animal. Judaism was much more Corporeal then many of today's Christian denominations, but the physical things that they practiced had ethereal benefits.

    To relate this to the older Christian denominations such as Catholicism, Orthodoxy, Episcopalianism etc. etc. etc....

    1) After the resurrection, Christ breathes on His Apostles telling them "receive the Holy Spirit" and then instructs them to go and "Forgive" people if they want forgiveness. If they did not want forgiveness then they did not receive it. (NT Cross Ref: John 20:21). The priestly order of Jesus Christ incorporated priests and Apostles (Presbyters, Bishops) to carry this out. I don't see a problem with this teaching since it says, ""Truly I tell you, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven. (Matthew 18:18). This binding and loosing concept is mentioned more than 1 time in the New Testament.

    2) Christ mentions, "Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in them. (John 6:56). What this is depicting is CONSECRATION. As mentioned above, the Israelites were consecrated by eating the animal sacrifices. The New Testament correlation to this is that we eat the Lamb (notice how I highlighted the word Lamb above) of God in order to be consecrated (in the case that we lost our relationship with God previously). Otherwise, we experience a heightened sense of a relationship with God (the same concept as that what the Israelites practiced only under a new priestly order). Oh yeah, its not cannibalism because the bread and wine lack many qualities of human flesh and blood.

    3) Do you remember how I mentioned above that the Israelites were required to have their sins absolved before consuming the animal sacrifices? The New Testament correlation to this is found in 1 Corinthians 11:27- "So then, whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the LORD in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the LORD." Christ, like the priestly order of Melchizedec, used bread and wine as a sacrificial offering in place of an animal because He is the LAMB that we eat. This LAMB has a perpetual offering in the form of bread and wine.

    This is just one of the many Catholic teachings that I agree with. Like ancient Judaism, Catholicism and a few other denominations are more Corporeal but the things we do yield Ethereal benefits. Of course, a nonbeliever would not recognize the spiritual behind these practices. You must be a believer to not only witness the spiritual behind these things but also to make it to Heaven.

    There is much more theology behind this particular teaching (the Eucharist) and if you would like, I can share my sources. Also, if you have questions or concerns about other Catholic practices I might be able address them. Catholicism takes a lot more studying to get the overall picture. I suspect that people are attracted to ideas such as "alls you have to do is Believe" because it is much easier that way.

    Catholicism is not rooted in paganism but in ancient Judaism. Once the temple in Jerusalem was destroyed the Jewish priesthood ceased. One cool thing about Christ's priestly order is that a gentile can become a priest. Whereas, the numerous Jewish orders required that a priest be a descendant of Moses' brother Aaron.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2018
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  16. Triumph1300

    Triumph1300 Well-Known Member

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    There you go Matt.
    Dig right in.
     
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  17. Philip James

    Philip James Well-Known Member

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    Hence my suggestion that you discuss these things with your confessor...

    Pax!
     
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  18. MattO

    MattO Member

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    You never showed me how I was wrong. Thus (if I am wrong) I am not culpable for any sin in this case. There is no need for me to confess anything to anyone.
     
  19. GodsGrace

    GodsGrace Well-Known Member

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    @MattO

    Which heresies MO?

    Second request.
     
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  20. MattO

    MattO Member

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    The "Catholic" Church that most "Catholics" are apart of, issued an "updated" version of the Catechism following Vatican II in 1965. The new Catechism called for the liberalization of certain Catholic Doctrines. A few that come to mind...

    1) Emphasis on women wearing vails, as an outward expression of their submission to their husband (mentioned in scripture), during the Catholic mass was greatly reduced to the point that it is nearly non-existent at a Novus Ordo mass today.

    2) The Church began issuing annulments and divorces at extremely high rates compared to past times. In the past, there were only a few legitimate reasons to get divorced/annulled. That list has since grown greatly. On top of it all, Catholics were being remarried by priests after they had been divorced. Traditionally, the Catholic Church would not allow someone to remarry after being divorced since scripture says that this would be considered adultery (a sin worthy of the Death Penalty). I think even in a non-Catholic Christian wedding that the couple takes the oath, "until death do us apart".

    3) Traditionally, hymns that contained Biblical truth were sang and organs were played during the Mass. Nowadays, you hear acoustic guitars, drums, pianos and some non-Catholic Christian songs that are played on Christian radio stations at the mass. I personally believe this is an expression of Ecumenism or in other words "One World Government" agenda.

    4) The belief that non-Christians can still make it to Heaven. I think its pretty obvious that this belief is wrong. I also believe this is a ploy for One World Government.

    5) The belief in civil rights was introduced to the Catechism under the title "Human Community". The Church has become more communist and humanistic than it was in its past.

    There is more but I can't think of anything else off hand.

    Lastly, even though the Novus Ordo has gone the route of One World Government, I do not believe it is the Whore of Babylon.
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2018
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