Trinity vs. Tritheism: Understanding the Trinity.

[Dave L]

I take all of the scripture as God shows it me and thus far that has not left me trinitarian. But, most of that which you call church is perhaps heading to the same end that most of the children of Jacob headed in wilderness instead of toward the Promised Land.

How do you explain the three persons each called God present at the same time during Jesus' baptism? Nothing suggesting modalism.

 

[Dave L]

dave make it clear, is it the one whom you call the son was sent by the Lord God and his spirit yes or no?

it's simple if the Lord God and his spirit sent the Son or not. make it clear.....

What does Isaiah say? “Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, there am I: And now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.” (Isaiah 48:16) (KJV 1900)

 

[101G]

What does Isaiah say? “Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, there am I: And now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.” (Isaiah 48:16) (KJV 1900)

anytime someone who cannot answer a straight question is in deception.

so next

 

[Dave L]

anytime someone who cannot answer a straight question is in deception.

so next

What better answer can a person give than a direct quote from scripture? It is you who rejects Isaiah and favors the heretic Sabellius.

 

[justbyfaith]

I am satisfied.

re #363 and up.

 

[Dave L]

I am satisfied.

re #363 and up.

So scripture isn't good enough? How dishonest it is to say a person doesn't provide an answer just because you don't understand it? That is what's going on here.

 

[Taken]

First thanks for the reply, second, it's not an endless discussion, it's only endless to those who believe in it.

Sure the discussion is endless, because people jump in and Never declare their Belief according To what they understand the Trinity to mean....just like you have done....
You were asked Point Blanc...what the Trinity means to you...and if that IS what you believe...

Your reply had nothing to do with answering the question.

Your reply says "you Have no belief of your own"..

Fascinating... an empty heart?

Then right after that, you state your belief...
Which has nothing to do with the question...and makes your FIRST comment false.

Third, I have no belife of my own, but that which is of the Lord Jesus who is God.

and that belief is that God, who is the ONLY person in the Godhead, who is JESUS, "diversified" his OWNself in flesh, with blood. other words, God came in the LIKENESS of man, without Father, and without Mother, but "SHARED" himself in flesh.

PICJAG

Since you can not answer any questions About The Trinity...which reveals your own beliefs...

Why post on a Trinity OP that you just goes around in circles, in an endless pointless discussion?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

“Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last. Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, And my right hand hath spanned the heavens: When I call unto them, they stand up together. All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; Which among them hath declared these things? The Lord hath loved him: He will do his pleasure on Babylon, And his arm shall be on the Chaldeans. I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous. Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, there am I: And now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me.” (Isaiah 48:12–16) (KJV 1900)

The Trinity in Genesis 1
With this important background, we can even see evidence for the Trinity right at the beginning of the Bible, in Genesis 1.

The Father is in overall supervision. The whole of creation is made by His command. Yet, we read that God said, “Let there be light.” In John’s Gospel, Jesus is described as the Word of God—and also as the Light. We can see, then, that the creation was made through Jesus—and this is supported by Colossians 1:15–17. Finally, in Genesis 1:2, we read about the Spirit “hovering over the face of the waters.” That accounts for all three Persons of the Trinity at the very start of things.

Trinity in the OT.

Why are you addressing your First three points over and over and over?

Lookie here...See...look, look, look, see, see, huh, huh, huh, see, look......

Sheesh Dave....where did I ask you to show in Scripture....
the Father, Son, Holy Spirit "IS" God?

Oh Right......I Didn't!!!

I asked you EXPRESSLY and SPECIFICALLY to Show the Scriptures That Say what YOU have claimed and Said.


You Said...specifically;

[QUOTE The Father is NOT the Son
The Son is NOT the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is NOT the Father.[/QUOTE]

Quote the Scriptures that say those things.
Or BE Honest...and confess Scripture does Not say what you said it does.

Taken

 

[Dave L]

Why are you addressing your First three points over and over and over?

Lookie here...See...look, look, look, see, see, huh, huh, huh, see, look......

Sheesh Dave....where did I ask you to show in Scripture....
the Father, Son, Holy Spirit "IS" God?

Oh Right......I Didn't!!!

I asked you EXPRESSLY and SPECIFICALLY to Show the Scriptures That Say what YOU have claimed and Said.


You Said...specifically;

[QUOTE The Father is NOT the Son
The Son is NOT the Holy Spirit
The Holy Spirit is NOT the Father.

Quote the Scriptures that say those things.
Or BE Honest...and confess Scripture does Not say what you said it does.

Taken[/QUOTE]
Here's may favorite scripture debunking Oneness.

“Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, there am I: And now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.” (Isaiah 48:16) (KJV 1900) = three persons of God

Now, how do you understand it? When satisfied, we can move on the the next if you have the time.

 

[Taken]

you didn't answer the question, let me make it clear, is the person in John 1:3 the same person in Isaiah 44:24 yes or no?

He can not answer your question.

He can only quote Scriptures of knowledge.

You are asking a question about "understanding"...

You can read dozens of His posts and see...He doesn't comprehend the difference.

 

[Dave L]

He can not answer your question.

He can only quote Scriptures of knowledge.

You are asking a question about "understanding"...

You can read dozens of His posts and see...He doesn't comprehend the difference.

If you cannot understand the scripture, don't blame me for not answering. This is dishonest.

 

[Dave L]

1. There is only one God (e.g., Rom. 3:30)

2. The Father is God (e.g., John 6:27)

3. Jesus is God (e.g., John 20:28; Rom. 9:5; 2 Peter 1:1)

4. The Holy Spirit is God (e.g., Acts 5:3–5)

5. These Three are distinct persons (e.g., John 14:16–17)

 

[Taken]

Quote the Scriptures that say those things.
Or BE Honest...and confess Scripture does Not say what you said it does.

Taken

Here's may favorite scripture debunking Oneness.

“Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; From the time that it was, there am I: And now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.” (Isaiah 48:16) (KJV 1900) = three persons of God

Now, how do you understand it? When satisfied, we can move on the the next if you have the time.[/QUOTE]

You have yet to show any Scripture expressly saying what you have said. Period!

 

[Taken]

If you cannot understand the scripture, don't blame me for not answering. This is dishonest.

I don't blame you ...I acknowledge you are incapable of expressing understanding.

Understanding of Scriptures comes from God...not from the Minds of men.

You want to claim Gods Spirit expressly told your spirit...the Son is NOT the Holy Spirit? (Like you claimed?)

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[Taken]

1. There is only one God (e.g., Rom. 3:30)

2. The Father is God (e.g., John 6:27)

3. Jesus is God (e.g., John 20:28; Rom. 9:5; 2 Peter 1:1)

4. The Holy Spirit is God (e.g., Acts 5:3–5)

5. These Three are distinct persons (e.g., John 14:16–17)

Explain...What Is the Holy Spirit?

Glory to God,
Taken

 

[101G]

Isaiah 48:16 "Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me".
if this is the best one can come up with to debunk any oneness, I feel sorry for you.

Let the SCRIPTURES SPEAK: who is the Lord God? this has been answered before, but I guess many didn't see it.

who is the Lord God? answer.
Revelation 1:1 "The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:

Who sent "his" angel? the angel tells us who sent him,
Revelation 22:6 "And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and the Lord God of the holy prophets sent his angel to shew unto his servants the things which must shortly be done".

Uh O, the "Lord God of the holy prophets, meaning also the OT prophets, like in the Isaiah 48:16 verse. ok, it was the Lord God who sent his angel, ok let's see who this "Lord God" of the holy prophets is..... Revelation 22:16 "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star".

Uh O, the "Lord God" of the holy prophets is JESUS.

well that just put a crimp into any sending of the "Lord God" as the "son". for the Lord God is JESUS.

so if any try to say the one who was sent is the "son", and it was the Lord God/the one whom many calls the Father and his Spirit SENT the Son, you have another thing coming, and it's the .......... TRUTH.

now, "HIS" Spirit? let the bible Speak.
1 Peter 1:10 "Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

1 Peter 1:11 "Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow".

yes, them holy prophets, whom the Lord God was in was in them by "HIS" Spirit. SAY WHAT!

yes, "HIS" Spirit is the SAME Spirit in Isaiah 48:16 ... THE SAME SPIRIT, THE SAME PERSON.

let's get seconds on this... Revelation 3:1 "And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead".

is this not the Lord Jesus? yes, and is it not the Lord JESUS addressing the 7 churches? but, but, but, and that's but with one "t" .... .. BUT, each letter ends this way, "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches".

yes, that's "HIS" Spirit in Isaiah 48:16.

conclusion:
Isaiah 48:16 "Come ye near unto me (JESUS), hear ye this; I (JESUS) have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I (JESUS, the diversity in flesh, John 1:1), and now the Lord GOD, (the TITLE of JESUS) and his Spirit, (his NATURE/My Father/Spirit) hath sent me".

"Diversity", "Diversity", "Diversity", Father when will they learn.

I can come a thousand way to answer, and still have a thousand more to go.

PICJAG

 

[101G]

This is open to any trinity believer.

English, the "FIRST" and the "LAST", the Hebrew, the "Aleph" and the "TAV", and the Greek, "The ALPHA" and the "OMEGA"

let's start with the "FIRST" and the "LAST"

scripture,
Revelation 1:17 "And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last:

we all know that this is the Lord Jesus.

Exhibit A. Isaiah 44:6 "Thus saith the LORD the King of Israel, and his redeemer the LORD of hosts; I am the first, and I am the last; and beside me there is no God.

is this two PERSONS? do the conjunction "and" indicate two Person or one? if you're not sure,

Exhibit B. Isaiah 41:4 "Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he".
ok, we have the Preposition "with" do this indicate two persons or one.... compare it with the verse above.

Exhibit C. Isaiah 48:12 "Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.
do the adverb "also" indicate two person? remember, Jesus is the "First and the "Last" in Revelation 1:17 who said that he is "I", likewise in Isaiah the speaker said that he is "I". study those 3 scriptures in Isaiah above and tell us is this one person or two persons that these scriptures speak of.........

Love to hear your answers.......

PICJAG.

 

[amadeus]

How do you explain the three persons each called God present at the same time during Jesus' baptism? Nothing suggesting modalism.

I never suggested that I was a modalist.

But consider what it is you believe and what it is that you know:

"And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." Matt 3:16-17

The Spirit of God is simply God, is it not? Is not the Father a Spirit? Why would we or should we divide God into two Spirits? Is not the Father, holy, and therefore why would He not be called the Holy Spirit? Why do you call God a person? Is not a person a man?

"God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth." John 4:24

"God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?" Num 23:19

 

[justbyfaith]

5. These Three are distinct persons (e.g., John 14:16–17)

Really, you should look at John 14:16-18 to get the entire picture...

Jhn 14:16, And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Jhn 14:17, Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Jhn 14:18, I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

 

[Dave L]

Really, you should look at John 14:16-18 to get the entire picture...

Jhn 14:16, And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Jhn 14:17, Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

Jhn 14:18, I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

He = person doesn't it? And He = God who will come to you doesn't it? And the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God aren't "they" (plural)? How do you interpret the Mount of Transfiguration presence of the father separate from the Son, both God?

“While he was still speaking, suddenly a bright cloud covered them, and a voice from the cloud said: This is My beloved Son. I take delight in Him. Listen to Him! When the disciples heard it, they fell facedown and were terrified. Then Jesus came up, touched them, and said, “Get up; don’t be afraid.”” (Matthew 17:5–7) (HCSB)