1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Featured Trinity vs. Tritheism

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by justbyfaith, Jan 8, 2019.

  1. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,411
    Likes Received:
    1,467
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    1. Isa 51[25] I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

    I "even" I...........am "HE".

    Uneven? Separation? No.

    Remember what is Gods WILL.
    Remember what is Gods WORD.
    Remember what is Gods POWER.

    Remember what Gods WILL has DONE.
    Remember what Gods WORD has DONE.
    Remember what Gods POWER has DONE.

    Remember....Good....
    KNOW and UNDERSTANDING..God is ONE.

    Glory To God,
    Taken
     
    "ByGrace" likes this.
  2. Taken

    Taken Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,411
    Likes Received:
    1,467
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Why is it you can never directly answer a direct question?

    If you are going to call people names, and then claim what you call people is a condemnation unto them.....and you then refuse to explain exactly what YOU THINK THAT NAME MEANS, AND WHY EXACTLY YOU THINK YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO DETERMINE EXACTLY WHAT AN OTHER PERSON BELIEVES..... seems to me like the cowardly and underhanded thing to do.

    It matters not to me one iota if YOU have to compartmentalize the Father, Son, & Holy Spirit, call them SEPARATE "persons", and be YOKED with every other person who believes the same.....WHILE CALLING every other person, A HERETIC, who does not AGREE WITH YOU....that is ON YOU, the name caller.

    Noting...It doesn't make you CORRECT...it makes you a Follower of men and a name caller.

    My belief and understanding IS NOT LIKE YOURS. I don't LIKE the "TERMS" you choose to express yourself, and I don't LIKE the "TERMS" modelists or Monarchianism use to express themselves.....or give a rip that some men got together and counseled among themselves....to decide anyone who DID NOT USE "THEIR" terms, (separate FORMS, and SEPARATE MODES, are HERETICS....and same goes for the People who are supposedly called by the NAME TAG, the "ONENESS" believers.

    LOOK pal, I don't have to CONFORM to any mans teaching and the NAME TAG, they have selected FOR THEIR "DOCTRINE".

    And the FACT is "IF YOU" want to "Identify yourself with A NAME TAG....that is "YOUR CHOICE" to do so....and ALL THE "DOCTRINE" that goes along with THAT NAME TAG, is ON YOU.

    What "NAME TAG"...have I claimed to identify with, that I made "myself" subject to ALL of that particular DOCTRINE?

    Answer that..... wait....don't bother...you don't listen, you simply attempt to DECIDE FOR OTHERS.

    You want to slap a name tag on me....use the one I choose.......CONVERTED IN CHRIST

    You want to know what my DOCTRINE IS...
    It's Jesus' DOCTRINE.

    You want to know what MY belief of the WORD TRINITY IS....it is:
    THREE that are ONE united.
    It has NOthING to do with DOCTRINE of men, who presume they OWN the word Trinity!

    You spend so much time pointing your finger at others, and name calling, and pronouncing others heretics and subject to damnation..
    YOU don't even Comprehend the BIG PICTURE.

    So let me give you a brief analogy...

    Human are Created...
    Human men
    A "MAN" has:

    FreeWILL of thoughts they conjour up in their pea-brain/MIND...which such thoughts Constantantly WAVER, change, believe this, then change their mind and don't believe what "THEY" did believe. <--- oh gee, I just called "A MAN"...."THEY'.

    A "MAN" has;

    A "spirit" in his heart....which is the TRUE "thoughts" of the MAN...The Heart absolutely knows the TRUTH....and yet the MIND can conjour up LIES and DECEITFUL thoughts, and CONSIDER those thoughts in the MIND.

    HELLO.....are you following?
    ONE MAN....between HIS OWN MINDS thoughts and HIS OWN spirits TRUTH...is STEWING A "CONFLICT" within that ONE MANS "own" conflicting THOUGHTS.

    Now consider the MANS "MOUTH"...as the mans ABILTY...TO EXPRESS his own THOUGHTS...but...WHICH thought WILL the man EXPRESS, by actual SPEAKING?
    The TRUE thought in his spirit in his heart...
    OR
    The DECEPTIVE thought in his MIND?

    A MAN has a CONSTANT CONFLICT...The spirit thinks this is true, the mind may or may not think the same is true, the mouth speaks...
    Oh wait, the mind just learned something new, and believes the new thing learned is the REAL truth, but his heart is not sure and his mouth already opened and spoke something else was True....and so the conflict continues over and over and over....

    ^ THAT IS THE NATURE OF MANKIND...It AFFECTS every aspect of a MAN...in school, in education, in jobs, in plans, in decision making.......and IN RELIGIOUS BELIEFS.

    God ALSO has ...
    A WILL...of HIS plan.
    A WORD...that comes out of HIS mouth
    A SPIRIT....of POWER of HIS supreme strength.

    Just as "ONE" mans ... mind, word, spirit....
    ALL are "identified" and called "separate things" "they" are ALL of "ONE" man...
    Not separate "persons", separate "forms".
    They are ALL part of the ONE "WHOLE" man.

    Just as "ONE" God...WILL, WORD, SPIRIT...
    ALL are "identified" and called "separate thing". "They" are ALL of "ONE" God...
    Not separate "persons", separate "forms", "separate" one from the other...
    They are ALL part of the ONE "WHOLE" God.

    The "GLARING" difference IS;

    Mans will, minds thoughts, spirits thoughts, and words........are constantly wavering and changing.

    Gods WILL, WORD, SPIRIT....are ALWAYS in Harmony...Always IN agreement...ALWAYS TRUTH...NEVER conflict one with the other....NEVER separate.

    God WANTS...
    1) men to be in harmony WITH other men.
    2) men do not have to AGREE one with the other....but Gods WORD teaches how men "can be" in a harmonious behavior one man with another....despite....not being agreement.
    3) this is BY and THROUGH Gods teaching of PRECEPTS...which is Scriptures that TEACH Gods WAY of "behaviors" of MEN toward MEN.
    4) men can CHOOSE to hear, learn, practice and try to masters Gods Precepts....
    5) and the outcome will be an acceptable outcome for each man involved...
    6)or not...
    7) and if a man chooses..."or not"....then that man will be subject to suffer the consequences of the "other man".

    Setting aside, mans constant disagreement within himself, and his thoughts and truths, and changing...dealing with everyday life, decisions, family, jobs, kids, other men....

    FOCUSING ON ONE man....and that ONE mans "THOUGHTS"....(in the mans mind AND spirit...and what comes out of his mouth (ie his word).......

    ^ that IS the BIG Picture that the entire book of Scripture is designed to Lead an individual man to the Climax...

    IF, HOW, WHEN.....will a single individual man....Collectively...."THEY"...."THE"...
    MIND, SPIRIT, WORD....of ONE MAN...
    BE "ALL" three, in absolute agreement IN truth "OF" Belief and Agreement
    IN "ALL" three ... WILL, WORD, SPIRIT...
    OF thee "ONE" God.

    ^ THAT IS THE BIG PICTURE...

    1)Gods WILL..that all men will BELIEVE IN Him.
    ....Fact is: ALL men 'will" believe in Him.

    2)Gods WORD...that all men "will" BELIEVE IN His word.
    ....Fact is: ALL men will believe in His word.

    3) God SPIRIT...that all men "will" freely choose to ACCEPT GODS "offered" GIFT OF "HIS SPIRIT"
    ....Fact is; NOT ALL men "will" choose to accept Gods gift of His "offered" SPIRIT.

    Point is;
    I know PRECISELY "what" I believe, and "why", and PRECISELY have "revealed"...
    What I believe, Why I believe it, and What gifts God has offered, and I have chosen TO take and receive.

    I didn't have to put myself in some man-made NAME TAG club, to declare my own beliefs and acceptance of Gods gifts.

    I don't have to call you names, or pronounce damnation upon you, BECAUSE YOU chose to put yourself in a man-made NAME TAG club.

    I don't have to AGREE with every step of your NAME TAG clubs "DOCTRINE"...and disagreeing with YOU....does not therefore mean....YOU have the authority to wag your finger and pronounce a judgement of damnation on me....

    You are not my Judge. I have not sought you to be my Teacher.
    I have a Teacher. I have a Judge. I am content with my Teachers Doctrine.

    Men "teach" THEIR Doctrines in Creeds and Statements and THEIR Ideas, Thoughts, Opinions, Philosophies and Words.

    My Teacher taught His Doctrine in Parables and Truth and Power and Authority and Godliness.

    You claim YOUR DOCTRINE (of words and creeds and statements ) ARE "based" on Gods Word....and encourage others to follow what you do.

    I've been clear....The Doctrine I choose to follow, IS NOT "based" on Gods Word.....but rather "IS Gods Word".

    So no, I am not interested in "abandoning" the Source; and instead ...to go read "your" creeds and statement and words.....of men.

    Not one person has called you names or pronounced damnation upon you, FOR your choices .... why do you do that to others?

    Glory to God,
    Taken
     
    Last edited: Jan 17, 2019
    "ByGrace" likes this.
  3. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,386
    Likes Received:
    1,932
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    I'm asking how you explain passages that prove God is not one person. Here's a few more for all to think about.

    Plurality in the Godhead OT

    And God said, Let us (plural) make man in our (plural) image, after our (plural) likeness: and let them (plural) have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man (singular) in his own image (singular), in the image (singular) of God (plural) created he him; male and female created he them.” (Genesis 1:26–27) (KJV 1900)

    And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.” (Genesis 11:4) (KJV 1900)

    And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.” (Genesis 11:3) (KJV 1900)

    And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.” (Genesis 11:4) (KJV 1900)

    God said: “Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.” (Genesis 11:7) (KJV 1900)
     
  4. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,386
    Likes Received:
    1,932
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Here's another challenge for all to read.

    Plurality in the Godhead OT


    And God said, Let us (plural) make man in our (plural) image, after our (plural) likeness: and let them (plural) have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man (singular) in his own image (singular), in the image (singular) of God (plural) created he him; male and female created he them.” (Genesis 1:26–27) (KJV 1900)

    And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.” (Genesis 11:4) (KJV 1900)

    And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them throughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.” (Genesis 11:3) (KJV 1900)

    And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.” (Genesis 11:4) (KJV 1900)

    God said: “Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another’s speech.” (Genesis 11:7) (KJV 1900)

    How do you claim God is one person operating in different roles in light of this?
     
  5. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,386
    Likes Received:
    1,932
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    How do you "modalize" God in the Sodom and Gomorrah judgement?

    “Then the Lord rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven;” (Genesis 19:24) (KJV 1900)
     
  6. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,386
    Likes Received:
    1,932
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    How about:
    And God said, Let us (plural) make man in our (plural) image (singular), after our (plural) likeness: and let them (plural) have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man (singular) in his own image (singular), in the image (singular) of God (plural) created he him; male and female created he them.” (Genesis 1:26–27) (KJV 1900)?
     
  7. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,386
    Likes Received:
    1,932
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    modalism. Also known as *patripassianism and Sabellianism, modalism was deemed a heretical doctrine by the early church. To preserve the unity of God and at the same time make sense of the doctrine of the Trinity, modalist teachers like Sabellius taught that one God appeared in three distinct modes: the Father in creation, the Son in redemption and the Holy Spirit in sanctification. Modalism falls under the larger category of *monarchianism, the attempt to defend the unity of God against charges of tritheism.

    Feldmeth, N. P. (2008). In Pocket Dictionary of Church History: Over 300 Terms Clearly and Concisely Defined (p. 98). Downers Grove, IL: IVP Academic.
     
  8. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,904
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    GINOLJC, to all.
    second, well dave the baptism of Jesus is not working for you, neither the transfiguration on the mountian either, nor will any of the others you posted here.
    #1. Genesis 1:26 "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."
    This i have answered before, but once again,

    Exhibit A. Who is the "US" and the "OUR" here. answer the "ANOTHER" of himself to com. what do I mean. God is a diversity of HIMSEL to Come. so when God say us or our.. ect .. he is speaking future tense of an event that's in his "dispensatations" to come. like here in Genesis 1:26. what is the dispensatation? answer another of himsel, his own IMAGE to come in flesh. but that time has not yet come at his speaking. so do we have scripture for this? yes
    Romans 5:14 "Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come".
    The Figure, or IMAGE of "HIM" (God) that was to Come is God diversified in flesh. now to prove that it was just the Spirit, meaning ONE, who made man male and female, let's check the record right here in Genesis, chapter 5,
    Genesis 5:1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him"

    Genesis 5:2 "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created".

    How many is "he" dave? .... (smile) ONE. see the "another" of himself had not YET "MANIFESTED" in the EARTH realm. but the FIGURE, or the IMAGE in the Male and Female which is a numerical difference did in Adam and Eve, and he himself (God) in flesh is to come.

    see dave Genesis 5:1 & 2 with Romans 5:14a shoots your trinity doctrine right out of the water.
    so you can't use this as a proof of any trinity anymore...

    Exhibit B. Genesis 11:7 "Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech".
    the Answer as in Genesis 1:26, is the same here. the confusion of Language here is the prelude of the explicate, or clarifying, or being made to understand language of the nations to come. as in Genesis 1:26 it was the LORD one person who made man in "his" image that was to come, and not their image. is the one who confound men language at Babel, and the same Spirit, diversified, meaning, that was to come. on Pentecost at another "City" Jerusalemm which have not yey been builtm explicate the language of men there as his figure or his "express" image to come. scripture,
    Acts 2:1 "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
    Acts 2:2 "And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
    Acts 2:3 "And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
    Acts 2:4 "And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
    Acts 2:5 "And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

    HOLD it, it was the "SPIRIT". but who poured out "his" (single desigination) Spirit? was it the LORD (all cap, as in Genesis 11:7) who poured out his Spirit, or was it the Lord, (only cap "L") who was to Come, as in (Genesis 1:26, the us) who POURED OUT "HIS" Spirit. let's see.
    Acts 2:32 "This Jesus (Oh, smile) hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
    Acts 2:33 "Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
    (Now a little side note: who raised up the body, the temple of JESUS? .. answer, Jesus himself, see John 2:19). the SAME Spirit.

    dave, here in Acts 2:32 & 33 it said "he?" ... how many is he? one and was it not the LORD (all caps) in Genesis 11:7 that said "let us" go down and confound?. and in Joel 2:28 & 29 where it was prophesied that the "LORD" all caps was to pour out his Spirit. and on the day of Pentecost, it was the "Lord" (only the L is capitalized) poured out his Spirit. ... (smile), lol, lol. the same one who "confounded" the language of men in Genesis 11:7 is the same one who explicate, or clarify or mand the language of men to be understood of men by men. the same one Spirit in "ANOTHER" form .... of flesh, when Glorified with the Spirit, as Revelation 1:4 states "Which is to Come", just like Romans 5:14b said is to COME, is the same one in John 17 who was glorified, shed forth his Spirit. man oh man this is too easy.

    see dave Shed forth is the same as poured out.
    OT, POUR H8210 שָׁפַךְ shaphak (shaw-fak') v.
    1. to spill forth (blood, a libation, liquid metal).
    2. (of a solid) to mound up.
    3. (figuratively) to expend (life, soul, complaint, money, etc.).
    4. (intensively) to sprawl out.
    [a primitive root]
    KJV: cast (up), gush out, pour (out), shed(-der, out), slip.

    NT, SHED FORTH: G1632 ἐκχέω ekcheo (ek-che'-ō) v.
    ἐκχύνω ekchuno (ek-chï '-nō) [by variation]
    1. to pour forth.
    2. (figuratively) to bestow.
    [from G1537 and cheo “to pour”]
    KJV: gush (pour) out, run greedily (out), shed (abroad, forth), spill
    Root(s): G1537

    my, oh my, how long Lord Jesus will they stay in ignorance.

    the SAME one PERSON who is the ANOTHER to Come, is the same one who confounded the language is the same one who in layman terms un-confounded men language. "diversity", "diversity", "diversity".

    I say you're getting a good education today. see ask and it will be given unto you.... :)

    Now you cain't use that anymore...... :D

    see how scriptures just harmonize, man the scriptures are beautiful ... when you know them.

    PICJAG

    now dave can you answer my question? ... I know you cain't so don't worry about it. .. :cool:
     
  9. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,386
    Likes Received:
    1,932
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    How about
    Jesus speaking; “After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.” (Matthew 6:9) (KJV 1900) How do you "modalize" this?
     
  10. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,904
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    @Taken,
    Dave L said: ↑
    The name is only used to identify your beliefs. Which were condemned several times as heresy in the early Church.


    Why is it you can never directly answer a direct question?

    one who is deceived cannot answer, when you see people avoid a direct question, and use the same same old excuse over, and over, they don't know, and are afraid of the TRUTH. they don't want to be ashamed, and have to eat their own words, so they quote others.
    2 Timothy 2:15 "Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

    when one cannot handle the word of truth they are ashame.

    PICJAG
     
  11. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,386
    Likes Received:
    1,932
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Why can't you answer my questions? They are simple, few words, and to the point. How do you "modalize" this passage? Jesus speaking: “After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.” (Matthew 6:9) (KJV 1900)
     
  12. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,904
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Matthew 6:9 "After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name".

    too easy dave, listen,
    John 3:13 "And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven".
    did you get that dave? while he, Jesus, the diversity of God/the Spirit was on earth speaking to Nicodemus and at the same time was in heaven. read it again. see dave you don't understand possession, "my". listen,
    John 20:17 "Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God".

    did you get that dave? my Father is the same as saying my "Spirit" which it is, because he is the diversity of the Spirit. my God? let's see the ONE TRUE GOD.
    John 20:28 "And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God".

    now dave if the Lord Jesus is a separate person from the one whom you calls the Father, , then you have two Gods, and that ... polytheism, :D

    well you cain't use that either, anymore ...... lol.

    and since the "Lord" is God. now may I ask you a question,
    Psalms 110:1 "A Psalm of David. The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool".

    dave is the Lord the LORD? .... :p

    I cain't wait to hear that answer. I suggest, before you answer, review all the post this morning
     
  13. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,386
    Likes Received:
    1,932
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    How do you "modalize" this? “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” (John 14:23) (KJV 1900)
     
  14. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,386
    Likes Received:
    1,932
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    modalism. Also known as *patripassianism and Sabellianism, modalism was deemed a heretical doctrine by the early church. To preserve the unity of God and at the same time make sense of the doctrine of the Trinity, modalist teachers like Sabellius taught that one God appeared in three distinct modes: the Father in creation, the Son in redemption and the Holy Spirit in sanctification. Modalism falls under the larger category of *monarchianism, the attempt to defend the unity of God against charges of tritheism.

    Feldmeth, N. P. (2008). In Pocket Dictionary of Church History: Over 300 Terms Clearly and Concisely Defined (p. 98). Downers Grove, IL: IVP Academic.
     
  15. 101G

    101G Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    4,904
    Likes Received:
    1,136
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    LOL, LOL,

    the we is the us in Genesis to COME. "diversity", "diversity", now dave did not the Father send the comforter? well what is he doing delling in us, "my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him" why send the Holy Spirit if the Father came?... lol, lol, lol.

    you still don't get it, do you. let us make it plain.

    Exhibit A. John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

    John 14:17 "Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

    John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.

    did you get it? I guess not, let us refresh your memory.

    Genesis 1:26a "And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:
    see that "US" and "OUR" there who MADE MAN. now,

    Genesis 5:1 "This is the book of the generations of Adam. In the day that God created man, in the likeness of God made he him;
    Genesis 5:2 "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called their name Adam, in the day when they were created.

    understand, the "US" and the "OUR" that was to come, is the "HE".

    now in John 14:23 the "we" is the "HE" in John 14:16. how do we KNOW this?
    1 John 3:23 "And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
    1 John 3:24 "And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.

    the Spirit which he gave us?
    1 John 4:15 "Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God.

    1 Corinthians 8:6 "But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him".

    One Lord, One God, what did Thomas say? " My Lord and my God"

    that's the "us" in John 14:23 ..... :D

    so you cain't use that nether ...

    let get an understanding here. you cannot put anything on the table that we cannot answer with diversity.

    PICJAG.
     
  16. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    6,386
    Likes Received:
    1,932
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    How do you "modalize" “And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;” (John 14:16) (KJV 1900)?
     
  17. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,845
    Likes Received:
    889
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The Spirit of Jesus is or isn't Jesus?

    However, when He left Jesus' body, He is now distinct from the human Jesus.
     
  18. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,845
    Likes Received:
    889
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    The plurality of the Lord, especially as found in John 1:1, but also as found in certain OT passages, is explained through an understanding of Isaiah 57:15 and Ephesians 4:10.

    Isa 57:15, For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones.

    Eph 4:10, He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)


    God is outside of time, descended into time; released His Spirit back into eternity (from time), and also ascended to be outside of time.

    Thus there are three co-eternal Persons dwelling in eternity, each called the one Lord God.

    My only contention is that the origins of the Son of God is that He is not eternally generated per se; but that He was begotten in the incarnation. This is biblical (Luke 1:35, Matthew 1:18-20).

    Luk 1:35, And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.


    Mat 1:18, Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

    Mat 1:19, Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a publick example, was minded to put her away privily.

    Mat 1:20, But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the Lord appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
     
  19. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    10,169
    Likes Received:
    11,464
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    Canada
    The more I read on this Site the more it depresses me.
    I used to enjoy coming on here, I never minded the light banter.
    But, it seems now "no one but them" is allowed to have a different opinion without being told that they are totally wrong!
    I have been walking this path for 46 years now..and have never felt that God has shown 'me' everything that there is to know about Him. No one "knows the bible'...it has layer and layers of undiscovered truth that God lovingly reveals to His children daily.
    That is why the Book is always so alive and exciting...He shows us something that we haven't seen or noticed before.

    But I agree, 'some people' seem to declare that they and they only see the full truth of everything , and the rest of us here are either heretics or from a cult.

    I am always tempted to write..." Oh you mean the Baptist cult, the Pentecostal cult, the methodist cult, the oneness cult the trinity cult, etc etc etc.. "
    If we check out all the definitions of a cult, everyone falls into it somewhere.

    Bless you...Helen
     
    justbyfaith likes this.
  20. justbyfaith

    justbyfaith Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,845
    Likes Received:
    889
    Faith:
    Christian
    Country:
    United States
    Of course it is possible to actually know the truth...

    But pointing the finger and condemning those who do not hold the same pov is simply not Christ-like, impaho.
     
    "ByGrace" likes this.
Loading...