101G
Well-Known Member
so I can take this as you cannot produce the scriptures to support your creed?.
PICJAG.
Trinity vs. Tritheism: Understanding the Trinity.
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PICJAG.
I have plenty of scripture that falls on your deaf ears. So I'm taking the opportunity to present clear precise statements that show your errors according to the Christian Church throughout history. Thanks for the opportunity.
101G
Well-Known Member
that's all I asked for ... scripture, well just post one to each question.
Thanks in advance
PICJAG.
I'll give you something more useful under the conditions. If you want to try to refute any of the creeds, have at it. They still survive unrefuted.
Here's one on the Trinity for all to consider.
The Athanasian Creed puts it this way: “Now this is the catholic [universal] faith: That we worship one God in trinity and the trinity in unity, neither blending their persons, nor dividing their essence. For the person of the Father is a distinct person, the person of the Son is another, and that of the Holy Spirit, still another. But the divinity of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit is one, their glory equal, their majesty coeternal.”
Orthodox Trinitarianism rejects monarchianism which believes in only one person (mono) and maintains that the Son and the Spirit subsists in the divine essence as impersonal attributes not distinct and divine Persons.
Orthodox Trinitarianism rejects modalism which believes that Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are different names for the same God acting in different roles or manifestations (like the well-intentioned but misguided “water, vapor, ice” analogy).
Orthodox Trinitarianism rejects Arianism which denies the full deity of Christ.
And finally, orthodox Trinitarianism rejects all forms of tri-theism, which teach that the three members of the Godhead are, to quote a leading Mormon apologist, “three distinct Beings, three separate Gods.”
101G
Well-Known Member
ok if you do not want answer the original question, here, so be it, then I'll ask my other original question since you said the Father, the son, and the Holy Spirit are distinct persons.
Is the Person in John 1:3 the same "DISTINCT" (smile) person in Isaiah 44:24? yes or no.
PICJAG.
“All things were created through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was created that has been created.” (John 1:3) (HCSB)
“I have swept away your transgressions like a cloud, and your sins like a mist. Return to Me, for I have redeemed you.” (Isaiah 44:22) (HCSB)
We've been through this before. All three members of the Godhead speak. But since John calls the Son the Word of God, it is probably the eternal Son speaking before the incarnation of the Son of man. The Son of Man being of human body and soul. But being the triune God in Spirit. In line which Chalcedon provided above.
101G
Well-Known Member
if you notice I made that correction, Isaiah 44:24 instead of Isaiah 44:22, but still with that it's still the same PERSON in John 1:3 for it was the LORD the son JESUS who "blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions", supportive scripture, Galatians 3:13 "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree". and did not Isaiah 44:22 say? "I redeemed you" ... LOL, see Dave even in my mistake you still are in ERROR... lol.
Now back to my origional Question. Is the Person in John 1:3 the same "DISTINCT" Person in Isaiah 44:24 lol. your answer please.
PICJAG.
101G
Well-Known Member
to all the trinity believers still out there
the Lord by my mistake in posting the wrong scripture, by dave has allowed another devastating exposure of the trinity to be exposed as false.
ISAIAH 44:22 is the Same Person as John 1:3.
Isaiah 44:22 "I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.
Jesus the Christ "REDEEMED" us HOW? answer, Galatians 3:13 "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree". and that redemption came by way of dying on the cross. supportive scripture,
Colossians 2:13 "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Colossians 2:14 "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; (there's that blotting out).
Colossians 2:15 "And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
thanks Lord Jesus for my my mistake, which you turned into your GLORY.
PICJAG.
the Lord by my mistake in posting the wrong scripture, by dave has allowed another devastating exposure of the trinity to be exposed as false.
ISAIAH 44:22 is the Same Person as John 1:3.
Isaiah 44:22 "I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.
Jesus the Christ "REDEEMED" us HOW? answer, Galatians 3:13 "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree". and that redemption came by way of dying on the cross. supportive scripture,
Colossians 2:13 "And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;
Colossians 2:14 "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; (there's that blotting out).
Colossians 2:15 "And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
thanks Lord Jesus for my my mistake, which you turned into your GLORY.
PICJAG.
As I said, the eternal Son, who existed forever, and before the incarnation, is more than likely the one speaking. Since John calls the eternal Word of God the Son. Jesus Christ is the NT version of YAHWEH and the name assigned to the incarnate Son we call Jesus Christ.
101G
Well-Known Member
now dave don't take this for an argument ok, but understand that the one speaking is the ONLY one who is IMMORTAL, meaning the ONLY one with eternal life. supportive Scripture, 1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen". read that scripture again, for it is speaking of the Lord Jesus, the son.
think for a minute dave, no argument, but just think, if the Lord Jesus is the ONLY one with immortality, where do that leave the one whom you calls the Father the FIRST person in your trinity, the distinct person from the Lord Jesus whom you call the Son as a separate and distinct person? just think about that.
immortality: the ability to live forever; eternal life.
and he's the ONLY ONE who have it, just reason that out. no argument please, just think.
PICJAG.
PS please read this post again.
101G
Well-Known Member
sorry dave, That destroys your trinity. For if each of your person is “CO-EQUAL?” but only ONE has Eternal life. you do know what "ONLY" means ... right. then #1. They are not co-equal. Two of the three is not everlasting. and if one was begotten “eternal” that don’t make any since, for one cannot be begotten, from eternity, for it is a perpetuity, meaning it have no beginning, and no end. So as to say the Son is eternally begotten is a false statement, and ANTI-BIBLE, meaning anti-Christ.
dave 1 Timothy 6:16 blows your creed, and doctrine of men out of the water forever.
ONLY means one PERSON, and 1 Timothy 6:16 is speaking of ONLY one PERSON.
PICJAG.
“That thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords; Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.” (1 Timothy 6:14–16) (KJV 1900)
And Jesus Christ = the triune God.
“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.” (Colossians 2:9) (KJV 1900)
101G
Well-Known Member
remember your doctrine states he's separate and distinct, meaning the one whom you call FATHER is not an eternal being. see. dave your doctrine has gotten you in a bind. dave, listen and understand, all the fullness, not them but HIM and his Glory, as the diversity is now ASSIMILATED in ONE BODY. listen, John 1:14 "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
FULL, FULL, FULL, FULL, that's the fullness in that body now, read John 1:14 again. my, my ,my, when will they learn.
@justbyfaith and @101G Another serious error in your concept of Christ is that you make him created. Which denies that he is God. And renders his sacrifice incomplete. If the Holy Spirit produced Christ's body, soul, and spirit through the incarnation. And the Father speaks through him merely as a prophet, then he is not God, but merely a creature God used the Holy Spirit to create. This is some of the worst of the worst heresy on tap.
101G
Well-Known Member
dave the scriptures said he is the ONLY ONE, 1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen".
Who is not them. case closed on the ONE. sorry dave your doctrine is fale as well as your creed.
PICJAG.
LOOK don't argue with me, argue with God the Holy Spirit, the Father .... JESUS...
this is too easy.
God = Jesus Christ. God is a trinity of persons.dave the scriptures said he is the ONLY ONE, 1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen".
Who is not them. case closed on the ONE. sorry dave your doctrine is faleas well as your creed.
PICJAG.
LOOK don't argue with me, argue with God the Holy Spirit, the Father .... JESUS...
this is too easy.
101G
Well-Known Member
ERROR, God =JESUS "ONLY" who holds the title "Father" without flesh, and the title "Son" with flesh....
PICJAG.
as Gamaliel said, Acts 5:38 "And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
Acts 5:39 "But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God..........
PICJAG.
YAHWEH = Jesus Christ in the NT. God is a trinity of persons.ERROR, God =JESUS "ONLY" who holds the title "Father" without flesh, and the title "Son" with flesh....
PICJAG.
as Gamaliel said, Acts 5:38 "And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought:
Acts 5:39 "But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God..........
PICJAG.
@justbyfaith and @101G Another serious error in your concept of Christ is that you make him created. Which denies that he is God. And renders his sacrifice incomplete. If the Holy Spirit produced Christ's body, soul, and spirit through the incarnation. And the Father speaks through him merely as a prophet, then he is not God, but merely a creature God used the Holy Spirit to create. This is some of the worst of the worst heresy on tap. post #855
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